Eating meat = huge risk

[pgp_protector]

That reminds me I need to take the chicken out of the freezer for tonight.

 

[Rajni]

There are traces of ISKCON in this thread...

 

[Sketcher]

Sorry but you are wrong. First of all you can not know if all words are from God or if evil have managed to change words to hurt humans. And then there are different opinions on what it means.

1) You have no way of proving this.
2) If this were true, it wouldn't make me wrong.

And if it is allowed does not mean that God wants you to kill. Therefore the risk of killing is higher than not to.

If it's allowed, then killing to make it happen is allowed.

 

[Sketcher]

At some point in the future meat eating will become a luxury. We simply won't need it. it will be a hedonistic choice - sensation seeking. I believe that we're essentially there already (at least for a good swathe of the western world)

If we can agree that meat eating is not necessary for a great many people, then I think that we would both have to submit to the inevitable conclusion that it is morally wrong.

I believe it is necessary for most people.

 

[bèlla]

This sounds like a religion. Not a dietary choice.

~bella

 

[Eftsoon]

I believe it is necessary for most people.

The scientific consensus is that veganism is not detrimental to health. Vegans have better health outcomes in several areas. Carnivorism is a choice at this stage in human progress

 

[Sketcher]

The scientific consensus is that veganism is not detrimental to health. Vegans have better health outcomes in several areas. Carnivorism is a choice at this stage in human progress

I'm a happy omnivore. The scientific consensus is that humans are omnivorous.

 

[Eftsoon]

I'm a happy omnivore. The scientific consensus is that humans are omnivorous.

Carnivorism meaning the consumption of meat. You've sidestepped.We are omnivores, but we don't need to be. You haven't addressed that particular problem.

 

[Rajni]

Carnivorism meaning the consumption of meat.

Technically carnivores eat meat almost exclusively.

 

[Lost4words]

I do not understand why any Christian would eat meat. It is not like we need it for survival.
How can you be sure that evil forces have not been conspiring to destroy you by making you believe murder is ok? Why would anyone sane take that risk?

I used to eat murdered animals and are now trying to make people go vegetarian. Perhaps that can help pay for my past sins.

Jesus eat meat. He did so as He was a Jew and followed Jewish teachings.

Nothing wrong with meat, in moderation.

 

[bèlla]

BBC produced a series of historical farm reenactments you should watch. You’ll understand why a vegan diet was unlikely for that period. Their physical output was greater than ours. You work up an appetite. They didn’t have the modern conveniences we enjoy today.

You did everything by hand! Have you ever seen laundry done the old fashioned way? Or a butter and cider making process? It’s labor intensive. They required more fuel to sustain them and meat was part of that.

After all, Passover involves a lamb and its blood. Jesus celebrated it.

~bella

 

[Eftsoon]

Technically carnivores eat meat almost exclusively.

I needed to refer to the practice of meat eating specifically. Omnivorism thus isn't the right word.

 

[Eftsoon]

Jesus eat meat. He did so as He was a Jew and followed Jewish teachings.

Nothing wrong with meat, in moderation.

BBC produced a series of historical farm reenactments you should watch. You’ll understand why a vegan diet was unlikely for that period. Their physical output was greater than ours. You work up an appetite. They didn’t have the modern conveniences we enjoy today.

You did everything by hand! Have you ever seen laundry done the old fashioned way? Or a butter and cider making process? It’s labor intensive. They required more fuel to sustain them and meat was part of that.

After all, Passover involves a lamb and its blood. Jesus celebrated it.

~bella

Veganism became possible industrially and biologically around 50 years ago. Anyone before that would have struggled due to the lack of scientific understanding about diet. I have to supplement, but it is now quite possible.
I don't really understand the OP's perspective. I'm not sure that it's an argument I'd use. I however am vegan because it's just the more compassionate way to go, and it's not all that difficult to pull off.

I scratch my head when I see people proclaiming that veganism/vegetarianism is absurd/pointless. I'd eat meat if I had to. I'd do it because I had no choice. The point is that I don't have to. As a result I can save millions of creatures untold agony.

I think that the way to go is to move toward plant based alternatives where possible and limit meat consumption as much as you can. Veganism is just about the reduction of suffering as much as possible. If you have health issues or financial issues, it's inadvisable. It requires a lot of work initially to get it right. It can also exacerbate ED's if done without medical supervision.

 

[Lost4words]

I have tried eating without meat but, those vegan marrow bones are yucky!

 

[Rajni]

I needed to refer to the practice of meat eating specifically. Omnivorism thus isn't the right word.

The more accurate term, omnivorous, is exactly the right word:

1: feeding on both animal and vegetable substances​

 

[Eftsoon]

The more accurate term, omnivorous, is exactly the right word:

1: feeding on both animal and vegetable substances​

But I was talking about eating meat: specifically and exclusively that.

 

[bèlla]

Veganism became possible industrially and biologically around 50 years ago. Anyone before that would have struggled due to the lack of scientific understanding about diet. I have to supplement, but it is now quite possible.

The OP lives in France. The culture and standards applied to food production are significantly better than most.

When we speak of plant-based diet the name is misleading. There's a difference between consuming fruits and vegetables harvested within two days and eating something shipped from another country. The quality is not the same. Nor do all who follow the plan eat wholly organic and limit their selection to local producers.

If the majority of your purchases come from a grocer; you haven't made the leap frog you believe. More importantly, how do you stock your pantry? Are you making your own stocks, broths, sauces, and condiments or buying them there? If you're not making them yourself you're consuming shelf stable items. Organic or not.

My jam contains four ingredients: fruit, organic sugar, homemade vanilla, and lemon juice. I add wine or a homemade cordial depending on the recipe. Quality is my barometer. Not profit. I'm using the best ingredients I can. That doesn't hold true for manufacturers. They're trying to get the biggest bang for their buck.

I place a higher priority on the source. I want to know who's producing my food. It's not enough for me to eat organic berries or meat. I want to know where they came from and have a relationship with that person.

Diet is a many layered entity. And some people treat it like a religion. Preaching the benefits of the plan they follow and demonizing those who disagree. All food came from the Most High. We're the ones who messed it up!

I eat a seasonal French diet. A bulk order of beef and pork from a farmer was nearly $900 dollars. We spend $400 per month on everything else. It costs more to buy from the source than a mystery bin in a store. I purchase tea, coffee, and spices from respective merchants.

But I'd never tell someone they have to do the same. That's my conviction. I'm not trying to evangelize anyone. I feel that's the case when this topic comes up. Few are able to say what they like and leave it at that. It always results in a debate.

That shouldn't be the case. This isn't the gospel. It's only food.

~bella

 

[Rajni]

But I was talking about eating meat: specifically and exclusively that.

Eating meat exclusively = carnivorism.
Exclusively talking about eating meat isn't carnivorism.

 

[Eftsoon]

The OP lives in France. The culture and standards applied to food production are significantly better than most.

When we speak of plant-based diet the name is misleading. There's a difference between consuming fruits and vegetables harvested within two days and eating something shipped from another country. The quality is not the same. Nor do all who follow the plan eat wholly organic and limit their selection to local producers.

If the majority of your purchases come from a grocer; you haven't made the leap frog you believe. More importantly, how do you stock your pantry? Are you making your own stocks, broths, sauces, and condiments or buying them there? If you're not making them yourself you're consuming shelf stable items. Organic or not.

My jam contains four ingredients: fruit, organic sugar, homemade vanilla, and lemon juice. I add wine or a homemade cordial depending on the recipe. Quality is my barometer. Not profit. I'm using the best ingredients I can. That doesn't hold true for manufacturers. They're trying to get the biggest bang for their buck.

I place a higher priority on the source. I want to know who's producing my food. It's not enough for me to eat organic berries or meat. I want to know where they came from and have a relationship with that person.

Diet is a many layered entity. And some people treat it like a religion. Preaching the benefits of the plan they follow and demonizing those who disagree. All food came from the Most High. We're the ones who messed it up!

I eat a seasonal French diet. A bulk order of beef and pork from a farmer was nearly $900 dollars. We spend $400 per month on everything else. It costs more to buy from the source than a mystery bin in a store. I purchase tea, coffee, and spices from respective merchants.

But I'd never tell someone they have to do the same. That's my conviction. I'm not trying to evangelize anyone. I feel that's the case when this topic comes up. Few are able to say what they like and leave it at that. It always results in a debate.

That shouldn't be the case. This isn't the gospel. It's only food.

~bella

Yes of course, dietary choices are personal choices, but only insofar as they don't have ethical consequences. It is somewhat ideological to describe veganism as only about food. It indicates that the sentience of the animals has been bracketed out of the equation. Modern science forces me to conclude that animals are sentient beings. I can't find a justification for killing them. It's not about food really. For me it's about advocating for their rights.

My belief is that animals are sentient enough for killing them to be unethical. I think it transcends dietary choice.

 

[Eftsoon]

Eating meat exclusively = carnivorism.
Exclusively talking about eating meat isn't carnivorism.

Life is short and semantics debates are typically very long. Lets end it there.