Eastern Orthodox beliefs

[Tom 1]

Hello,

I could probably just look this up but wanted to get some personal takes on it also - are Eastern Orthodox beliefs about Mary essentially the same as Catholic beliefs (perpetual virginity etc)? If this is so, if a person wants to join the EO church would they be required to express faith in these ideas?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Albion]

Orthodoxy does not officially accept the Immaculate Conception, whereas it is a required belief for Roman Catholics. However, there is room for doubting in Orthodoxy on this matter as with others since the objection is more to the act of defining (as the RC have done) and less to the actual belief. Many EOs think this belief does not need to be dogmatized and, also, is beyond proving true by either Scripture or Tradition.

 

[Tom 1]

Orthodoxy does not officially accept the Immaculate Conception, whereas it is a required belief for Roman Catholics. However, there is room for doubting in Orthodoxy on this matter as with others since the objection is more to the act of defining (as the RC have done) and less to the actual belief. Many EOs think this belief does not need to be dogmatized and, also, is beyond proving true by either Scripture or Tradition.

Thanks Albion - how about the idea of 'perpetual virginity', i.e. that Mary & Joseph didn't have normal marital relationships, and that Jesus didn't have half-brothers and sisters

Tom

 

[FireDragon76]

Perpetual virginity of Mary is an accepted doctrine in the Orthodox Church. I'm unsure of its dogmatic status, but questioning it for an EO would be generally considered impious, and it is a doctrine than is expressed in the liturgy of their church. They regard Mary's body as consecrated to God, much as Catholics do, though their tradition as a whole has a less negative view of sexuality.

 

[Albion]

Thanks Albion - how about the idea of 'perpetual virginity', i.e. that Mary & Joseph didn't have normal marital relationships, and that Jesus didn't have half-brothers and sisters

Tom

Yes, they believe all of that.

 

[Tom 1]

Ok, thanks

 

[FireDragon76]

BTW, traditionally, and generally, most Protestants believed in Mary's perpetual virginity as a received tradition. It's only been in the relatively recent past that has changed, perhaps due to changing Protestant attitudes towards sexuality, that people find the doctrine incredible. Also, Mary's consecration to God wouldn't be a significant theme in most Protestant spirituality (with a few exceptions).

It's doctrinal status in the Lutheran church is ambiguous, most would say it is a pious opinion at best. It is definitely not a de fide dogma in our church.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Hello,

I could probably just look this up but wanted to get some personal takes on it also - are Eastern Orthodox beliefs about Mary essentially the same as Catholic beliefs (perpetual virginity etc)? If this is so, if a person wants to join the EO church would they be required to express faith in these ideas?

Thanks,

Tom

Hi, Tom.

EO do not believe in the Immaculate Conception as we believe it is completely unnecessary due to our different understanding of Original Sin.

We do believe in Her perpetual virginity, as that is something that has been believed & taught since very early in the Church.

 

[Tom 1]

Hi, Tom.

EO do not believe in the Immaculate Conception as we believe it is completely unnecessary due to our different understanding of Original Sin.

We do believe in Her perpetual virginity, as that is something that has been believed & taught since very early in the Church.

Thanks - so there’s a belief in the virgin birth, and perpetual virginity, but not the Catholic immaculate teaching (I’m not so familiar with Catholic terminology but I can look that up)

Tom

 

[Albion]

The question might be whether or not the EOs believe in the Assumption of Mary (bodily into heaven). That's the other obligatory RC doctrine.

The EO belief in the dormition of Mary is similar, but you'd better have Mary of Bethany or some other Orthodox Christian handle that one.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Thanks - so there’s a belief in the virgin birth, and perpetual virginity, but not the Catholic immaculate teaching (I’m not so familiar with Catholic terminology but I can look that up)

Tom

The Immaculate Conception has to do with Mary being given a special grace at her birth to keep her from the stain of original sin. A Catholic can explain it much better. We reject it because we don't believe we inherit a stain of sin. We are born fallen in a fallen world, with the propensity to sin, but not already stained with sin, so for us the IC is completely unnecessary. We also have some other problems with it, but that's the main reason.

Albion brought up the Assumption of Mary which is a Feast in the west. That is another thing we somewhat disagree on. We have a Feast called the Dormition (Death) of the Theotokos commemorating her death and subsequently being taken to heaven.

I believe we only have two absolute Dogmas regarding the Theotokos; one being that she *is* the Theotokos (birthgiver of God) which serves to protect the truth that Christ is fully God and fully man (it does not mean that she is His creator, or gave birth to God the Father or anything like that); and her ever-virginity. My apologies if I'm telling you things you already know!

Mary

 

[Tom 1]

The Immaculate Conception has to do with Mary being given a special grace at her birth to keep her from the stain of original sin. A Catholic can explain it much better. We reject it because we don't believe we inherit a stain of sin. We are born fallen in a fallen world, with the propensity to sin, but not already stained with sin, so for us the IC is completely unnecessary. We also have some other problems with it, but that's the main reason.

Albion brought up the Assumption of Mary which is a Feast in the west. That is another thing we somewhat disagree on. We have a Feast called the Dormition (Death) of the Theotokos commemorating her death and subsequently being taken to heaven.

I believe we only have two absolute Dogmas regarding the Theotokos; one being that she *is* the Theotokos (birthgiver of God) which serves to protect the truth that Christ is fully God and fully man (it does not mean that she is His creator, or gave birth to God the Father or anything like that); and her ever-virginity. My apologies if I'm telling you things you already know!

Mary

Many thanks Mary. I know very little about the Eastern Orthodox faith, or that Catholic faith for that matter, so I appreciate the info,

Kind Regards,

Tom

 

[prodromos]

Many thanks Mary. I know very little about the Eastern Orthodox faith, or that Catholic faith for that matter, so I appreciate the info,

Kind Regards,

Tom

The Eastern Orthodox Church is the historical Church of your country. I dare say that many of your ancestors were Eastern Orthodox. If you are Romanian, that is
Have you heard of Elder Cleopa? He was a spiritual elder to many Orthodox Christians throughout the persecution of the Church under the rule of Communism and only passed away a few decades ago.
Elder Cleopa on the Eight Sources of Temptation

 

[Tom 1]

The Eastern Orthodox Church is the historical Church of your country. I dare say that many of your ancestors were Eastern Orthodox.
Have you heard of Elder Cleopa? He was a spiritual elder to many Orthodox Christians throughout the persecution of the Church under the rule of Communism and only passed away a few decades ago.
Elder Cleopa on the Eight Sources of Temptation

I’m not originally from Romania, but I’ll
Look that up, thanks.

 

[prodromos]

I’m not originally from Romania, but I’ll
Look that up, thanks.

yes, that occurred to me after I posted, so I added a little disclaimer

 

[Tom 1]

yes, that occurred to me after I posted, so I added a little disclaimer

Haha no worries

 

[prodromos]

There are a couple of books put together of Elder Cleopa's talks with enquirers. I will admit that I have a soft spot for this book primarily because my wife helped translate it into English. It was previously only available in Romanian and Greek.
The Truth of Our Faith

 

[Tom 1]

There are a couple of books put together of Elder Cleopa's talks with enquirers. I will admit that I have a soft spot for this book primarily because my wife helped translate it into English. It was previously only available in Romanian and Greek.
The Truth of Our Faith

I'll get a copy of it. Was it originally written in Romanian?

Thanks

Tom

 

[prodromos]

I'll get a copy of it. Was it originally written in Romanian?

Yes, although I don't know much more about the original.

 

[ViaCrucis]

BTW, traditionally, and generally, most Protestants believed in Mary's perpetual virginity as a received tradition. It's only been in the relatively recent past that has changed, perhaps due to changing Protestant attitudes towards sexuality, that people find the doctrine incredible. Also, Mary's consecration to God wouldn't be a significant theme in most Protestant spirituality (with a few exceptions).

It's doctrinal status in the Lutheran church is ambiguous, most would say it is a pious opinion at best. It is definitely not a de fide dogma in our church.

Agreed--though technically the Confessions do call her semper virgine.

-CryptoLutheran