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Featured Earth, then light (Big Bang), Created on Day One; Sun, Moon and Stars Created on Day Four

Discussion in 'Creationism' started by StevenMerten, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. This concept is allowable for a Creationist.

    12 vote(s)
    44.4%
  2. This concept is unallowable for a Creationist

    15 vote(s)
    55.6%
  3. The biblical definition of 'day', is one dark, light, cycle; Not 24 hours, until Day Four

    1 vote(s)
    3.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    'I'm not afraid': What Stephen Hawking said about God,
    his atheism and his own death

    Before we understand science, it is natural to believe that God created the universe. But now science offers a more convincing explanation. What I meant by ‘we would know the mind of God’ is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God, which there isn’t. I’m an atheist.”

    “Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing,” the book states.Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-death/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f0e1a1917c09
    Hello RC,
    It is, man's evil human pride, of atheist scientists, which is leading myriads of educated people, away from God. Science, at the quantum level (subatomic particles), proves our God created the Universe, in that the universe does not exist without conscious man to observe it. So atheist scientists turn to their infamous 'Realism' philosophy. 'Realism' is basically atheist scientists stating, 'Quantum mechanics proving that the universe does not exist, when man is not looking at it, is crazy, we will use human denial and not accept this scientific proven truth, we will continue on in scientific falsehood, as if we never knew this.'

    Stephen Hawking is a world renown atheist cosmologist. He mocks people who believe in God as ignorant of science. Denial! Quantum mechanics proves that creation happened when conscious man was created. Hawking deceives people into thinking that the universe could create itself without God. Yes, the mass of one septillion stars will explode into a universe. Well Mr Hawking, Where did the mass of one septillion stars come from? God Created it! Of course!

    Atheist scientists use earth's present velocity to calculate amount of time from the big bang. Does anyone really think earth was traveling at its present day velocity, right through the cataclysmic immensity of the big bang? No, scientists are just throwing a velocity out there. Please visit my thread, which describes how stupid it is for scientists to randomly assign earths present day velocity, as the center of creation.
    The Aliens are going to laugh at earth cosmologists explaining 13.8 billion years from creation.

    Basically, hardened atheist scientist Stephen Hawking is standing on an, evil human pride, foundation of nothing. Hawking makes his human intelligence as god like, while blaspheming God as non-existent. Atheist scientist Hawking, with his evil human pride, is deceiving many educated people away from God. Hawking is not the first man to let his evil human pride get between himself and reality.

    Genesis 3 The Fall of Man
    Now the serpent was the most cunning of all the animals that the Lord God had made, the serpent asked the woman, 'Did God really tell you not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?' The woman answered the serpent: 'We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden; it is only about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden that God said, 'You shall not eat it or even touch it, lest you die.'' But the serpent said to the woman: 'You certainly will not die! No, God knows well that the moment you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad.'

    Isaiah 14:12 The King of Babylon.
    How have you fallen from the heavens, O morning star, son of the dawn! How are you cut down to the ground, you who mowed down the nations! You said in your heart: 'I will scale the heavens; Above the stars of God I will set up my throne; I will take my seat on the Mount of Assembly, in the recesses of the North. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will be like the Most High!' Yet down to the nether world you go to the recesses of the pit!

    When they see you they will stare, pondering over you: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, and kingdoms quake? Who made the world a desert, razed its cities, and gave his captives no release? All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own tomb; But you are cast forth without burial, loathsome and corrupt,Clothed as those slain at sword-point, a trampled corpse. Going down to the pavement of the pit, you will never be one with them in the grave. For you have ruined your land, you have slain your people!

    Proverbs 16:18
    Pride goes before disaster, and a haughty spirit before a fall. It is better to be humble with the meek than to share plunder with the proud.

    Ezekiel 31:14
    Thus no tree may grow lofty in stature or raise its crest among the clouds; no tree fed by water may stand by itself in its loftiness.
    For all of them are destined for death, for the land below, For the company of mortals, those who go down into the pit.

    Thus says the Lord GOD: On the day he went down to the nether world I made the abyss close up over him; I stopped its streams so that the deep waters were held back. I cast gloom over Lebanon because of him, so that all the trees in the land drooped on his account. At the crash of his fall I made the nations rock, when I cast him down to the nether world with those who go down into the pit. In the land below, all Eden's trees were consoled, Lebanon's choice and best, all that were fed by water. They too have come down with him to the nether world, to those slain by the sword; those who dwelt in his shade are dispersed among the nations.Which was your equal in glory or size among the trees of Eden? Yet you have been brought down with the trees of Eden to the land below. You shall lie with the uncircumcised, with those slain by the sword. Such are Pharaoh and all his hordes, says the Lord GOD.



     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  2. RC Tent

    RC Tent Member

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    No, I do not agree that there is scientific proof that there is no universe without conscious observation. You might be convinced of it, but an atheist, who by their own free volition wishes to stay an atheist, will always say "science does not know enough about that" rather than see what you are seeing in the "evidence".
     
  3. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello RC,
    Your, 'Scientific proof is not scientific proof, because we will eventually learn how to overcome it', is the basis of denial for science in their 'Realism' philosophy. Realism philosophy was developed a hundred years ago to counter truth in scientific discovery and experimentation. Atheist scientists have been arduously striving to prove this truth, in scientific proof, wrong for the past 100 years. They have all failed. During which time, atheist scientists have been mocking God and deceiving people away from God, based on their 'Realism' philosophy, which denies this scientific proof, which you seem to share.

    How do you explain the double slit experiment? In it, it is proven that electrons know when man is looking at them, and thus change their course. It does not matter at what point in physical time that the observation is made, the change will go back in physical time to the beginning of the electrons travel. How do you explain this?



    How did an Electron Evolve to Know When Man is Looking at It, and Thus Change It's Course?
     
  4. RC Tent

    RC Tent Member

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    Do you know that Stephen Hawking is dead, because your post is using the present tense?

    Stephen Hawking cannot be held responsible for deception just for expressing his opinions - that is only deceitful if he was not being honest. He was under pressure from the public for years to comment on the existence of God - I don't think anyone should have been asking a physicist that question, but I can see how he might have thought it would be rude not to answer it.

    I personally think that it is an error to believe that "scientific evidence" leads to absolute truth, and that "scientific method" is an infallible way to establish all reality. Our understanding of our religious convictions should not have to be compromised by research into the physical world, and our scientific research should not be deemed capable of identifying all truth or judging what is real.
     
  5. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello RC,
    We will get back to Stephen Hawking.

    Have you taken my Pope Quiz? What is your answer to solving for 'time from the big bang'? From a scientific prospective, what did you think of my The Aliens are going to laugh at earth cosmologists explaining 13.8 billion years from creation.
    (please stick to the perimeters given, our main objective is to teach others how physical time really works)

    Pop Quiz

    Time dilation and space flight
    Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future.

    A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.

    Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation
    Physical time stops elapsing at the speed of light. The closer you get to the speed of light, the slower physical time elapses. Albert Eisenstein's, scientifically proven, 'Theory of Relativity', Time Dilation.

    Solve the following science question for time since Day One of Creation, aka the Big Bang.

    It is the future and you captain on a star ship freighter, that can do near the speed of light. You "travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime" as Wikipedia Time Dilation definition describes. You travel 100,000 billion light years in your 60 years of near light speed travels. A light year is the distance light travels in one earth orbit around the sun. When you come back to earth, 100,000 billion years will have passed on earth (which has remained constant at its present day velocity) in your 60 years of light speed traveling.

    So, the question becomes, how many years from God's Day One of Creation, aka the Big Bang, is it now? Is it now 100,013.8 billion years from Creation? Or is it now 13.8 billion years + your 60 years of life (traveling at near the speed of light), from Creation? Or is it, that there is no such thing as 'amount of time' from Creation, because physical time is a variable which depends on velocity; or in Einstein's words, 'Relative'. Thus we can only rely on God's Word, for the period since His Creation of all that exists.
     
  6. RC Tent

    RC Tent Member

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    I don't explain it, you asked me if I accepted it as scientific proof of a creator, I don't think it is.

    If someone is at all willing to realise that there is a Creator they need something much more reliable and thorough than scientific evidence as their grounds. They need their freedom of choice to invite the Creator to show them, they need experience of faith to show them how questionable human perceptions are without God, and they need awareness of the absolute unchanging reality of God, then they will be able to see every physical thing in the natural world as proof that there is a God.

    If they have not used their freedom to choose knowing God, have not experienced the results of faith, therefore got reasons to believe that there is a Creator - from the Creator - no evidence from science or any other "proof" will convince them. There is no lack of evidence or deliberate misconstruing of evidence, just human beings and choosing to allow God to influence their perceptions or a refusal to.
     
  7. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello RC,
    No! We are talking about a hardened atheist scientist standing in front of Pope John Paul II demanding that he accept the 13.8 billion years from God's Creation! Then the cameras went to making Stephen Hawking looking like a, martyr of science, comparing him to Galileo, for Pope John Paul II not accepting it. A great number of educated people have watched Hawking's 'Cosmos' documentary, and because they put their faith in Hawking 'being a smart guy', and his deception of 13.8 billion years from 'God's Creation', were deceived from even the scientific proof as to 'physical time from the big bang', not to mention deceived from God.

    You cannot answer my question because you know that I am proving this 13.8 billion years from the big bang, atheist scientists are demanding be 'God's Creation', is mass deception on the part of atheist scientists.

    So please solve the Pop Quiz and give me your solution for years from the big bang. Please do not run and hide from discussing science.

    Why is it that the Aliens are laughing so hard at earth's great cosmologists tell them that the universe was created 13.8 billion years ago?
    The Aliens are going to laugh at earth cosmologists explaining 13.8 billion years from creation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  8. RC Tent

    RC Tent Member

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    What stopped the Pope from saying that people do not have to accept the limited boundaries of science (the study of the physical realm - defined in the Oxford Dictionary as such) - and the conclusions of fallible, imperfect human beings as the edge of all truth?

    What stopped the Pope from pointing out that there is a God who does not restrict human thoughts to that which physics is capable of understanding?

    Stephen Hawking was an atheist who made a choice to believe that science could and should set the boundaries of all human knowledge. Anyone can choose to agree with that philosophical position or they can choose not to.

    It is a philosophical issue, it is a matter of free will, not scientific evidence.
     
  9. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    'I'm not afraid': What Stephen Hawking said about God,
    his atheism and his own death

    “Before we understand science, it is natural to believe that God created the universe. But now science offers a more convincing explanation. What I meant by ‘we would know the mind of God’ is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God, which there isn’t. I’m an atheist.

    “Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing, the book states. “Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-death/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f0e1a1917c09
    Before God's Creation, there was nothing, no empty space, no matter or energy, no strings, no corks, there was not even a physical realm. Many people, think that atheist Stephen Hawking is a god, because he has the knowledge that all of Creation, including the physical realm itself, can spontaneously come into existence from nothing, without God's Creation of everything that exists. Scientifically, atheist Stephen Hawking is either ignorant of science, or trying to deceive people into not believing in God.

    Whether the mass of one septilion stars is on the head of a needle, before the big bang or the mass of one septillion stars are spread out tens of billions of light years apart, nothing was created, in scientific terms. The total mass and energy of universe simply transitioned from being the size of an atom to now being the size it is today, which the laws of science do not define as 'creation' of anything.

    The Conservation of Mass-Energy
    There is a scientific law called the Law of Conservation of Mass, discovered by Antoine Lavoisier in 1785. In its most compact form, it states:

    matter is neither created nor destroyed.
    In 1842, Julius Robert Mayer discovered the Law of Conservation of Energy. In its most compact form, it it now called the First Law of Thermodynamics:

    energy is neither created nor destroyed.
    In 1907 (I think), Albert Einstein announced his discovery of the equation E = mc2 and, as a consequence, the two laws above were merged into the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy:

    the total amount of mass and energy in the universe is constant.

    Law of Conservation of Mass Energy
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  10. RC Tent

    RC Tent Member

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    There is no before there was a God - there has always been God.

    Now, when do you think that the laws of physics begin to apply?

    At what point, during the creation of everything that physically exists do you think it became possible to effectively study that physical existence with modern scientific methods?
     
  11. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Matthew 7:12
    " . . . treat others the way you would have them treat you: this sums up the law and the prophets. Enter through the narrow gate. The gate that leads to damnation is wide, the road is clear, and many choose to travel it. But how narrow is the gate that leads to life, how rough the road, and how few there are who find it!"

    Revelation 2:22
    "I mean to cast her down on a bed of pain; her companions in sin I will plunge into intense suffering unless they repent of their sins with her, and her children I will put to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds, and that I will give each of you what your conduct deserves."

    John 5:27
    "The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned."

    Mark 16:15
    Then he told them: Go into the whole world and proclaim the good news to all creation. The man who believes in it and accepts baptism will be saved; the man who refuses to believe in it will be condemned.


    So why would an atheist scientist, Stephen Hawking, be running down to the Vatican, all the time, to demand that Christ’s Church accept that they are wrong on God’s Creation, and his atheist opinion on God’s Creation, is right? To atheist Stephen Hawking, It was not a, you can choose to believe whatever you like, about God’s Creation of universe; instead, atheist Hawking was presented as a martyr of science, in the documentary ‘The Cosmos’, because he was not able to convince Christ’s Church that they must accept his atheist account of how God’s Creation happened. What Hawking wanted to do, was to convince the Pope to accept his atheist 13.8 billion years from God’s Creation of everything, and then go on to mock God, by talking about what ‘came before, God’s Creation of all that exists’. Atheist Hawking had an agenda to attack God and invite as many people to his atheism as possible. Does this sound like man’s evil human pride trying to
    deceive people away from God?

    Al Capone, a Mob hit man, who murdered countless people, is said to have constantly mumbled, “All the people I killed needed to be killed”, as he slowly died of syphilis, in prison. Atheists, have to continually convince themselves that they are right in their atheism. Otherwise it would be pretty stupid for a smart atheist to reject God and His gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ. Let see, I could accept Jesus Christ and His teachings, and have a chance of eternal life; or I could just maintain my evil human pride and die, never to live again.

    When your evil human pride is sending you down the path to eternal damnation, it is always nice to bring some other people with you. Thus we have intelligent atheists, doing the work of Satan. If you are going to reject Jesus offer of Eternal life, through loving Jesus and doing His will, then the natural inclination is to use denial to convince yourself that you are right, and those following Jesus are wrong, and you are going to try to take as many believers to hell as you can.

    John 15:22
    "If I had not come to them and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; now, however, their sin cannot be excused. To hate me is to hate my Father. Had I not performed such works among them as no one has ever done before, they would not be guilty of sin; but as it is, they have seen, and they go on hating me and my Father."

    John 14:23
    Jesus answered and said to him, "Whoever loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.Whoever does not love me does not keep my words; yet the word you hear is not mine but that of the Father who sent me.

    John 15:9
    "As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you. Live on in my love. You will live in my love if you keep my commandments, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and live in his love.


    1 John 5:3
    For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,

    Luke 10
    "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty deeds done in your midst had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would long ago have repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. And as for you, Capernaum, 'Will you be exalted to heaven? You will go down to the netherworld.'" Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."

    John 12:47
    "If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken - it is that which will condemn him on the last day.

    Matthew 25:46
    "These will go off to eternal punishment and the just to eternal life."

    Revelation 22:12
    "Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood."
     
  12. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    stevenmerten,

    1. Atheists are fools that say in their heart there is no God. So Hawkins is irrelevant in the big picture.

    2. If one believe that the Bible is infallible and context is what is important for understanding then the full context should be given first to make some kind of deduction of an answer.

    3. The Bible is about the redemption of this earth and salvation from sin.
    The only way to understand this and the creation of Adam and Eve is to understand what happened before.

    4. God created the Heaven and earth perfect and not in vain Isaiah 45:18.
    Genesis 1:2 says the earth was without form and void.
    Hebrews 11:3 says that through faith we understand the worlds were framed by the word of God so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. This would include the Heaven and the earth made out of nothing.
    This means that the young earth position could not be true.
    This means that this is a reconstruction of the earth. Why? Because creation of Adam and Eve were things that already existed. Earth means dry land Genesis 1:9-10 and of judgement Isaiah 14:12; Ezekiel 28:12-18.

    5. Job 38:7; The morning stars were the angels that sang at the beginning of our creation which was a recreation of Satan’s sin and this is why Satan was working through the serpent in the garden of Eden in Adam and Eve’s time.

    6. Satan ruled the earth according to Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18. He corrupted the sanctuaries which is goy meaning gentile nations; Isaiah 14:12 uses nations goy which Satan weakened. There were no nations at Adam and Eve’s time of being created.
    Jeremiah 4:23 confirms the Pre-Adamite man was destroyed in that flood which correlates with Genesis 1:2.
    Some say Jeremiah was talking about Noah’s flood. But compare the the Pre-Adamite flood and Noah’s flood and one will see the difference because the original flood was completely under water and didn’t recede Genesis 1:2. Noah’s flood the waters receded Genesis 8:3.

    7. Isaiah 14:12-14 proves his rulership on earth for he had to ascend into Heaven and exalt his throne above the stars of heaven. This is rulership.
    This is also why it says Satan would be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:15.
    It is also why the scripture says Hell was made for Satan and his angels and its location Matthew 25:41; Ephesians 4:9.

    8. The length of time is not specified between the original creation and recreation.
    Since a thousand years as a day and a day as a thousand years with the Lord it could be millions of years of our time if science is right about fossils etc. but not because of evolution such as Darwin’s theory.
    If our time is based on our sun then it would seem our 24 hours didn’t start till the 4th day.
    So the Big Bang being when he said let their be light is not scriptural that is conjecture and wrong deduction. Jerry Kelso
     
  13. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Isaiah 14:12 The King of Babylon.
    How have you fallen from the heavens, O morning star, son of the dawn! How are you cut down to the ground, you who mowed down the nations! You said in your heart: 'I will scale the heavens; Above the stars of God I will set up my throne; I will take my seat on the Mount of Assembly, in the recesses of the North. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will be like the Most High!' Yet down to the nether world you go to the recesses of the pit!

    Revelation 12:5
    She gave birth to a son--a boy destined to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and to his throne. The woman herself fled into the desert, where a special place had been prepared for her by God; there she was taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days…

    ..
    .Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels battled against the dragon. Although the dragon and his angels fought back, they were overpowered and lost their place in heaven. The huge dragon, the ancient serpent known as the devil or Satan, the seducer of the whole world, was driven out; he was hurled down to earth and his minions with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have salvation and power come, the reign of our God and the authority of his Anointed One.


    Hello Jerry,
    Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and many other Old Testament authors are Apocalyptic (End Times) authors. The Book of Revelation is all focused on Jesus taking over as King and Ruler of the world. Can you tell us why ‘Babylon’, and Babylon’s king Nebuchadnezzar, ‘fall from heaven’, upon our future Battle of Armageddon, where Jesus Christ takes over as King and Ruler of the world?

    When the Seventh Angel of Armageddon blows his trumpet, at our future Battle of Armageddon, ‘morning star’ king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, and his world dominant secular power successors, also described as Satan, fall from heaven, as ‘Morning Star’, Jesus Christ, takes over as God’s preferred, King and Ruler of the world! Satan/Babylon, falling from heaven, is symbolic for God transfering Power on earth from man’s evil human pride in secular power, to God, once again, Ruling over Israel, and the world, through His Son, Jesus Christ.

    Isaiah 27:13
    On that day, A great trumpet shall blow, and the lost in the land of Assyria and the outcasts in the land of Egypt Shall come and worship the LORD on the holy mountain, in Jerusalem.

    Matthew 24:29 The Coming of the Son of Man.
    'Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

    Revelation 11:15
    Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet. There were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdom of the world now belongs to our Lord and to his Anointed,and he will reign forever and ever.'


    Revelation 10

    'There shall be no more delay. At the time when you hear the seventh angel blow his trumpet, the mysterious plan of God shall be fulfilled, as he promised to his servants the prophets.'

    Revelation 16:16
    They then assembled the kings in the place that is named Armageddon in Hebrew. The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air. A loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, 'It is done.'

    This is the big problem when Bible translators, translate 'morning star' into 'Lucifer'. Lucifer is a neutral term; it simply means like the morning star Venus. Jesus Himself calls Himself 'Morning Star'. People, on earth, are led by the stars; Especially ships at sea. Stars were the gps of the old days. Calling beings 'morning stars' is simply symbolic for meaning a world ruler.

    Lucifer

    The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning"(Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.

    quoted from: Lucifer; New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia

    In Revelation 12, along with Isaiah 14, the fall of Satan from heaven to earth, happens when the seventh trumpet of Armageddon blows, which is when Jesus takes over as King and Ruler of the world, on earth. This scene in Revelation 12 has not yet happened, but soon! Man's evil human pride in secular power, is presently God's selected and authorized way of ruling the world. Secular power falls from being God's selected and authorized way of ruling the world, as God switches to authorizing and selecting His Son, Jesus Christ, as King and Ruler of the world, on earth. God switching who will Rule the world, is what Satan falling from heaven, in Revelation 12 is symbolizing. Man's evil human pride in secular power, falls from heaven to earth, from earth, when Jesus Christ takes over as King and Ruler of the world, on earth.

    Please visit:



    The statue of king Nebuchadnezzar's dream, in Daniel 2:31, quoted below, represents the succession of secular world dominant power emanating from King Nebuchadnezzar. God handed the House of Judah over to Satan/Babylon in 587 BC. The gold head, or beginning of God's authority in secular power, is king Nebuchadnezzar. The silver chest of the statue represents the Medes and Persians who took possession of world dominant power and authority given to king Nebuchadnezzar. The Medes and the Persians are also represented in the two horned ram in DAN 8:17. The 'he goat' in DAN 8:17 is Greek power which succeeds the Medes and the Persians in world dominant secular power. The iron and tile feet of DAN 2:31 are world leaders, in the age of the Apocalypse, who have succeeded from king Nebuchadnezzar's, God given, world dominant power to rule over the House of Judah and the world. The feet of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar represent world dominant secular power at the end of this dynasty of God authorized secular power ruling over Judah and the world.

    In Nebuchadnezzar's dream, a stone, which is Jesus, strikes the feet of the statue and the whole dynasty of God given world dominant power and authority, in the hands of secular rulers, is turned into dust and blown away. The "mountain" which takes Babylon/Satan's place is Zion. Upon the Battle of Armageddon, Jesus will take over as King, Morning Star, and world dominant Power over the world from Armageddon forward, forever more. The 'great mountain' which 'filled the whole earth' is the Restored Kingdom Israel with the rebuilt city of Jerusalem, which is Zion, as God's Holy City on earth. God's Holy City Jerusalem, which is Zion, will shine like the sun over all the earth. Zion will shine because our 'Light to the Nations', 'Morning Star', 'the Bride Groom of the Church, Jesus Christ, will reside in Zion.

    Babylon/Satan's, Medes and Persians/Satan, Greece/Satan, Rome/Satan, and all world dominant secular power, over Judah and the world, up until Christ's future battle and enthronement, at Armageddon, falls at the Battle of Armageddon.

    Revelation 18:21
    A powerful angel picked up a stone like a huge millstone and hurled it into the sea and said: 'Babylon the great city shall be cast down like this, with violence, and nevermore to be found!'

    Daniel 2:31
    In your vision, O king, you saw a statue, very large and exceedingly bright, terrifying in appearance as it stood before you. The head of the statue was pure gold, its chest and arms were silver, its belly and thighs bronze, the legs iron, its feet partly iron and partly tile. While you looked at the statue, a stone which was hewn from a mountain without a hand being put to it, struck its iron and tile feet, breaking them in pieces. The iron, tile, bronze, silver, and gold all crumbled at once, fine as the chaff on the threshing floor in summer, and the wind blew them away without leaving a trace. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

    Luke 20:17
    'The stone which the builders rejected has become the keystone of the structure'?
    The man who falls on that stone will be smashed to pieces, It will make dust of anyone on whom it falls."

    This was the dream; the interpretation we shall also give in the king's presence. You, O king, are the king of kings; to you the God of heaven has given dominion and strength, power and glory; men, wild beasts, and birds of the air, wherever they may dwell, he has handed over to you, making you ruler over them all; you are the head of gold. Another kingdom shall take your place, inferior to yours, then a third kingdom, of bronze, which shall rule over the whole earth. There shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron; it shall break in pieces and subdue all these others, just as iron breaks in pieces and crushes everything else. The feet and toes you saw, partly of potter's tile and partly of iron, mean that it shall be a divided kingdom, but yet have some of the hardness of iron. As you saw the iron mixed with clay tile, and the toes partly iron and partly tile, the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. The iron mixed with clay tile means that they shall seal their alliances by intermarriage, but they shall not stay united, any more than iron mixes with clay. In the lifetime of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed or delivered up to another people; rather, it shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and put an end to them, and it shall stand forever. That is the meaning of the stone you saw hewn from the mountain without a hand being put to it, which broke in pieces the tile, iron, bronze, silver, and gold. The great God has revealed to the king what shall be in the future; this is exactly what you dreamed, and its meaning is sure.


    NAB REV 12:5
    She gave birth to a son--a boy destined to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod....

    ...
    Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels battled against the dragon. Although the dragon and his angels fought back, they were overpowered and lost their place in heaven. The huge dragon, the ancient serpent known as the devil or Satan, the seducer of the whole world, was driven out; he was hurled down to earth and his minions with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have salvation and power come, the reign of our God and the authority of his Anointed One.

    Isaiah 24:3 Devastation of the World: A Remnant Saved.
    The earth is utterly laid waste, utterly stripped, for the LORD has decreed this thing. The earth mourns and fades, the world languishes and fades; both heaven and earth languish. The earth is polluted because of its inhabitants, who have transgressed laws, violated statutes, broken the ancient covenant. Therefore a curse devours the earth, and its inhabitants pay for their guilt; Therefore they who dwell on earth turn pale, and few men are left.

    Revelation 2:27
    He shall rule them with a rod of iron and shatter them like crockery; and I will give him the morning star.

    On that day the LORD will punish the host of the heavens in the heavens, and the kings of the earth on the earth. They will be gathered together like prisoners into a pit; They will be shut up in a dungeon, and after many days they will be punished. Then the moon will blush and the sun grow pale, For the LORD of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, glorious in the sight of his elders.


    Isaiah 11 The Rule of Immanuel.
    On that day, The root of Jesse, set up as a signal for the nations, The Gentiles shall seek out, for his dwelling shall be glorious. On that day, The Lord shall again take it in hand to reclaim the remnant of his people that is left from Assyria and Egypt, Pathros, Ethiopia, and Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and the isles of the sea. He shall raise a signal to the nations and gather the outcasts of Israel; The dispersed of Judah he shall assemble from the four corners of the earth.
    The envy of Ephraim shall pass away, and the rivalry of Judah be removed; Ephraim shall not be jealous of Judah, and Judah shall not be hostile to Ephraim; But they shall swoop down on the foothills of the Philistines to the west, together they shall plunder the Kedemites; Edom and Moab shall be their possessions, and the Ammonites their subjects. The LORD shall dry up the tongue of the Sea of Egypt, and wave his hand over the Euphrates in his fierce anger And shatter it into seven streamlets, so that it can be crossed in sandals. There shall be a highway for the remnant of his people that is left from Assyria, As there was for Israel when he came up from the land of Egypt.

    Revelation 9:13
    Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the (four) horns of the gold altar before God, telling the sixth angel who held the trumpet, 'Release the four angels who are bound at the banks of the great river Euphrates.' So the four angels were released, who were prepared for this hour, day, month, and year to kill a third of the human race.

    Revelation 16:12
    The sixth angel emptied his bowl on the great river Euphrates. Its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East.

    Revelation 16
    They then assembled the kings in the place that is named Armageddon in Hebrew. The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air. A loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, 'It is done.' Then there were lightning flashes, rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake. It was such a violent earthquake that there has never been one like it since the human race began on earth. The great city was split into three parts, and the gentile cities fell. But God remembered great Babylon, giving it the cup filled with the wine of his fury and wrath.
     
  14. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello Jerry,
    So lets get back to talking about God's Creation.


    Neils Bohr
    "It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties (science labels this, 'a superposition of states')."

    Neils Bohr (Chance) replies,
    "Nor is it our business to prescribe to God how He should run the world."

    Scientific proof still stands, that we live in a 'Peek a Boo' universe which means a universe which only exists when a conscious observer, meaning man (Adam) is looking at it. Even after 100 years of atheist scientists desperately trying to prove, this scientifically proven science, wrong.

    Neils Bohr is the scientist who developed the theory of electron rings on the atom. Neils Bohr also pushed 'Quantum Theory' aka 'Quantum Mechanics' into acceptance, 100 years ago. Neils Bohr's Quantum Mechanics is the accepted theory on subatomic particles, in the scientific world today.

    Neils Bohr, and his 'Quantum Mechanics', states that there is no universe, without conscious man (Adam), to observe the universe. Please watch the following PBS video which explains that Neils Bohr's, 'Peek a Boo' universe, is still, after 100 years, the winner in proven science.

    I do not know if Neils Bohr was a Christian. However, Neils Bohr certainly is a Creationist, in my eyes. No universe, without conscious observers, meaning Adam-kind, to observe it, certainly is the Creationist stand. Plus five previous days before Adam, thousands of years ago on the week Adam was made, according to God's Word.

     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  15. Mathetes66

    Mathetes66 Member

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    "Anyone else out there that wants to weigh in on the subject, please post!" Steven Merten

    I would like to weigh in on the side of expositional truth of Scripture rather than using recent scientific theories or models to determine what Scripture says, as a number of people posting here have tried to show you. But you persist in saying the Light that God spoke into existence was the 'present day big bang theory,' a secular, atheistic theory that excludes God & the supernatural, as Steven Hawking, maintains, in your quote of him.

    Jesus repeatedly said, 'Have you not read' or 'is it not written' or 'do you not know'--He summed it up with this statement: 'Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures neither the power of God'.
    Pulpit Commentary: These Sadducees erred in two ways:

    (1) They did not know or remember the Scriptures, such as that in Job (Job 21:25), "I know that my Redeemer liveth," etc., or in Isaiah 26:19, "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise;" or in Daniel 12:2, "Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake," etc.

    (2) They did not know the power of God, namely, that He can raise the bodies of the dead again to life, even as at first He created them out of nothing; for a greater power is required to make that to be which was not, than to make that again to be which once was. But then the resurrection life will be a new life, spiritual, glorious, eternal, like that of angels. Our Lord struck at the double root of the error of the Sadducees.

    Genesis Chapter One is only a small portion of God's revelation on His creation! It is progressive & more revealing as one reads through the whole Bible. One cannot fully understand or interpret Genesis 1 in isolation. Does it talk about the creation of the angels? It doesn't seem to. So we must turn to Job 38:6,7. Does it talk about Hades & it's gates being created & darkness? No. So we must turn elsewhere in Scripture, such as Job 38:17-21 & Matt 25:41.

    The father of the 'primeval atom hypothesis' (later refined to the present day atheistic 'big bang theory'), Belgian Catholic priest Georges Lemaître, did not agree with much of what you are speculating. In fact, his own statements show a completely different view of the beginning of the universe. He separated it as scientific thought, different from his religious thought (which primarily focused on salvation) as seen below.

    Steven, you try to distance yourself from naturalistic atheists by saying God created the spherical earth BEFORE the big bang occurred, so it's existence wasn't PART of the results of the ungodly theory. However, you leave out the heavens being created also, before this supposed big bang. God didn't use a big bang; He used light. This light didn't come from a big bang; that is YOUR argument & in error in many ways. You make an appeal for the supernatural, then turn around & appeal at the same time for this naturalistic theory, devoid of God, to be true also. Your position is definitely CONFUSING & also unbiblical & unscientific in my opinion.

    Library : The Faith and Reason of Father George Lemaître
    As Monsignor Lemaître says: "He (the Christian researcher) knows that not one thing in all creation has been done without God, but he knows also that God nowhere takes the place of his creatures. Omnipresent divine activity is EVERYWHERE essentially HIDDEN. It never had to be a question of reducing the supreme Being to the rank of a scientific hypothesis."

    "We may speak of this event {big bang} as of a beginning. I DO NOT SAY a creation. Physically it is a beginning in the sense that if something happened before, it has no observable influence on the behavior of our universe, as any feature of MATTER BEFORE THIS BEGINNING has been COMPLETELY LOST by the extreme contraction at the theoretical zero. Any preexistence of the universe has a METAPHYSICAL character. Physically, everything happens AS IF the theoretical zero was really a beginning. The question if it was really a beginning or rather a creation, something started from nothing, is a philosophical question which CANNOT be settled by physical or astronomical considerations."

    "The wise Monsignor clearly pointed out that both the laws of physics & history did not exist before the Big Bang so the LACK of knowledge about what came BEFORE isn't a temporary phenomenon but intrinsic to our science. If one makes the assumption that God indeed created the universe with the Big Bang, one CANNOT prove this scientifically." Joseph R. Laracy (Pastoral Review)

    We learn many things from the Monsignor by his own statements:
    1) He does believe that not one thing in all creation has been done without God. However, he states that the big bang theory is not creation but simply a naturalistic beginning from a single quatum or atom.
    2) Omnipresent Divine activity is EVERYWHERE essentially HIDDEN. This directly CONTRADICTS God's REVELATION in the Scriptures, especially on creation as the many verses below will show!
    3) Physically the big bang theory is a beginning in the sense that if something happened before, it has NO OBSERVABLE INFLUENCE on the behavior of our universe. Again God's revelation in Scripture refutes this.
    4) Any feature of MATTER BEFORE THIS BEGINNING has been COMPLETELY LOST by the extreme contraction at the theoretical zero. In other words any matter existing before the big bang would be annhilated, completely lost due to the extreme power of the explosion.
    5) If the big bang was really a creation, something started from nothing, it is a philosophical question which CANNOT be settled by physical or astronomical considerations."
    6) He clearly points out that both the laws of physics & history DID NOT EXIST before the Big Bang. This again contradicts the witness in the Scriptures as verses below show.
    7) The LACK of knowledge about what came BEFORE the big bang isn't a temporary phenomenon but intrinsic to our science. Scientists don't know but God REVEALS what actually happened & this is the truth. He had Moses WRITE ALL THIS DOWN. Jesus was there. He & the Father & the Holy Spirit were three eyewitnesses to what actually happened as well as the angelic host which God created early that witnessed God's creative acts in the latter part of the 6 days of creation.
    8) If one makes the assumption that God indeed created the universe with the Big Bang, one CANNOT prove this scientifically." According to the theory of the big bang, the explosion radiated out in all directions, forming concentric circles. Thus the earth caught in this, would have light shining over its whole surface & no darkness would exist. And as previously, this catclysmic even would destroy all previous matter, which would include the earth, IF...you believe this man made fairy tale that rejects God & His creating all things.

    The following Scriptures refute much of this & refute some of your assertions as well.

    Psalm 74:16-18 Yours is the day, Yours also is the night; You have prepared THE LIGHT AND THE SUN. It was You who set all the boundaries of the earth; You made both summer & winter. Remember how the enemy has mocked You, LORD, how foolish people have reviled Your name.

    Gen 8:22 As long as the earth endures, seedtime & harvest, cold & heat, summer & winter, day AND night shall never cease."

    Psalm 119:90,91 Your faithfulness continues through all generations; You established the earth & it endures. Your regulations (laws, ordinances) remain (stand) true to this day, for everything serves Your plans.

    Psalm 104:2 He wraps Himself in light as with a garment; He stretches out the heavens like a tent.

    Jeremiah 33:19-21,25,26 And the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: "This is what the LORD says: If you can break My covenant with the day & My covenant with the night, so that DAY & NIGHT CEASE TO OCCUPY THEIR APPOINTED TIME, then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant & with My ministers the Levites who are priests, so that David will not have a son to reign on his throne. This is what the LORD says: If I have not established My COVENANT WITH THE DAY & THE NIGHT & the fixed laws of heaven & earth, then I will reject the descendants of Jacob & David My servant & will not choose ONE OF HIS SONS TO RULE OVER the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    Romans 1:18-22 For the wrath of God is REVEALED from heaven against all ungodliness & unrighteousness of men who SUPRESS THE TRUTH in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is manifest (G5318 shining, apparent) within them; for God made it manifest to them. For since the CREATION of the world His INVISIBLE attributes, His eternal power & Divine nature, HAVE BEEN CLEARLY SEEN, being UNDERSTOOD THROUGH WHAT HAS BEEN MADE, so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE. For even though they knew God, they did not HONOR HIM AS GOD or give THANKS, but they became futile in their SPECULATIONS & their foolish heart was DARKENED. Professing to be wise, they became FOOLS & exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man & of birds & four-footed animals & crawling creatures.

    Psalm 19:1,2 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies (firmament) proclaim the work of His hand. Each new day tells more of the story & each night reveals more & more about God's knowledge.

    Job 12:7-9 But ask the animals & they will instruct you; ask the birds of the air & they will tell you. Or speak to the earth & it will teach you; let the fish of the sea inform you. Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this?

    Joshua 10:13 So the sun stood still & the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky & delayed going down about a full (whole) day. (Habakkuk 3:11)

    I Cor 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

    "The whole point of this thread is to stress that from Day One to Day Four of Creation, earth has not yet been caught in our sun's orbit, thus 24 hour 'days' are not created till the 4th Day of Creation. God clearly defines 'day' as one dark to light cycle on earth. Do you agree that when God said, "Let There Be Light!", this was, what scientists see as the 'Big Bang'? Steven Merten

    Here you point out, as the OP of this thread, your main argument, the supporting points & the scant evidences supporting your argument. You state God clearly defines 'day' as one dark to light cycle on earth. However, this starts on day 1 not day 4! God doesn't change his revelational covenant that he made with the day and the night, as the verses show!

    "This is what the LORD says: If you can break My covenant with the day & My covenant with the night, so that DAY & NIGHT CEASE TO OCCUPY THEIR APPOINTED TIME..."

    "Yours is the day, Yours also is the night; You have prepared THE LIGHT AND THE SUN. It was You who set all the boundaries of the earth..."
    Isaiah 45:7 I formH3335 the light,H216 & createH1254 darkness...H2822
    Darkness was created on day one but light was formed by God to be used to define a normal day with the dark ON THE EARTH in the 1st 3 days. Light already existed because God is light. "In His light we see light."
    "As long as the earth endures, seedtime & harvest, cold & heat, summer & winter, DAY & NIGHT WILL NEVER CEASE."

    Isaiah 44:24,25 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer & He that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself; Who foils the signs of false prophets & makes fools of diviners, who confounds the wise & turns their knowledge into nonsense.

    God didn't change His definition of a normal 24 hour day, STARTING FROM DAY ONE OF CREATION. You said yourself: one dark to light cycle on earth. God makes it obvious: day & night do not cease to occupy THEIR APOINTED TIME.' It remained the same from the first day to the seventh. In fact, this covenant of light & darkness, making one day, is mentioned over 1400 times in the Bible! It always refers to a 24 period, a normally understood day. God defined it & He meant it, right from day one! This period of day & night will not cease on the earth as God's normal boundary, law & covenant. He even made a covenant to remove all doubt as to what He meant.

    Please note in Ps 74:16,17 God once again refers to the day & the night as God's. He defined them. He also said He prepared THE LIGHT as well as the sun to define a normal day of 24 hours! So there is no need for a big bang! The light of day one is used with the darkness to define a normal complete or full day of 24 hours. So God didn't need the sun in day one through three to define what a day is. The sun was added so that man could navigate by it & use it to define all the hours of one normal day! It was added for mankind's benefit but it didn't change God's definition of a normal day from Day One of creation week, just as it doesn't change man's normal six day work week with the 7th day of 24 hours being one of rest for him.
    Once again, God continues to make this truth plainly obvious in His revelation in Exodus 20:8-11.

    "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor & do all your work, but the 7th day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant or livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates. BECAUSE IN SIX DAYS the LORD made the heavens & the earth & the sea & all that is in them, but on the 7th day He rested. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day & set it apart as holy."

    God reveals in His Law that mankind works six normal days & on the 7th day of the week he is to rest for that 24 hour period. This is God's command. And how does God illustrate this? He uses His own example of making the heavens & the earth also in six normally understood 24 days & resting on the 7th normal day of 24 hours. This can't be missed nor misinterpreted. Day 1 is the same as Day 2 is the same as Day 3, etc. No difference in the days.

    Your problem appears to be ignorance of & unbelief of God's revelation in His Word & turning to man's wisdom for some of your answers--when God has already revealed to you the truth! You refuse to believe God simply used a source of light other than the sun during the first three days of creation. When God stopped the sun in one of the passages above, that didn't CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF THE NORMAL DAY. In the new heavens & earth, there is no need for a sun anymore. God provides the light. This is no problem for God! You should consider not limiting God & turning to natural man's answers that contradict God's revelational truth.

    I will also post a site that goes into great depth on the time dilation THEORY & showing its inherent weaknesses. You also need to consider that the universe God first created is NOT the universe we live in today. Our present universe is corrupted & is in a state of decay & is winding down as the law of entropy states. It will be left in ruins & God will need to create a new heavens & a new earth.
     
  16. Mathetes66

    Mathetes66 Member

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    You also seem to ignore the truth of Scripture in the very first verse as well as seeming to ignore the rest of Scripture in terms of God's progressive revelation to confirm what He has said previously! God didn't reveal everything in Genesis 1 but He did progressively reveal much more in the rest of Scripture concerning His creation & the making, forming & filling of that creation. One needs the whole revelation of God to better understand this subject. There are multiple hundreds of verses. I showed only a few above but will show still many more.

    Gen 1:1 "In the beginning God (Elohim) CREATED...the HEAVENS AND the earth."
    In the very beginning, God created BOTH the heavens & the earth. At this point, God created the time, matter & space continuum. Beginning demonstrates the entrance of time in God's revelation.

    The creation of the heavens (plural) was matter & space (atmosphere, the space for solar systems & the third invisible heaven where God chose to make His dwelling known within the creation, though God is not limited to dwelling there, since He exists in eternity & beyond the highest heavens).

    The earth was matter also, though neither one were yet filled (inhabited) nor fully formed. Yet both were CREATED...out of nothing. When God created man, he was fully formed, an adult. Animals were fully formed, adults which Adam could see & name. When God created the angelic beings, they were fully formed & able to serve God & sing for joy at watching God create, shape & fill His created universe.

    When God created the stars, they were fully formed & appeared suddenly, all at once, already shining their light on the earth, just as the sun was fully formed & the moon was fully formed, doing what God designed them to do--all accomplished in ONE DAY, not 13.8 BILLIONS of years.

    According to natural man's big bang theory, the beginning is so preposterious in its description, much of it having no observable fact. It is based on speculation & conjecture.

    The Expanding Universe/Big Bang Theory of Georges Lemaître

    Back to Georges Lemaître.

    In 1931, Monsignor Lemaître proposed an even more radical idea — the universe began as a “single quantum”. The expanding universe must have been smaller & smaller in the past, HE REASONED. Thus it must have had a finite beginning.

    How was Lemaître’s idea received? Many physicists were suspicious of a beginning of the universe proposed by a Catholic priest. The idea was too close to the Genesis story in the Bible. To make matters worse, Pope Pius XII latched onto Lemaître’s theory as confirmation of the biblical description of creation. Lemaître argued it was just a scientific theory and nothing more — neither confirming nor denying religious beliefs. He said: "As far as I can see, such a theory remains entirely outside any metaphysical or religious question...It is consonant with Isaiah speaking of the hidden God, hidden even in the beginning of the universe."

    In 1933, Lemaître and Einstein gave a series of lectures in California. Recanting his earlier objections, Einstein now called Lemaître’s theory “the most beautiful & satisfactory explanation of creation to which I have ever listened.”

    Notice two simple words that led to his error & rejecting the truth of Scripture: HE REASONED. He was a brilliant man & even Einstein was impressed. But his theory is NOT the most beautiful & satisfactory explanation of creation--God's supernatural revelation--IN HIS OWN WORDS--is the most beautiful & it is the truth.

    The universe did not start with a single quantum or atom. Yes, it had a beginning but it didn't start with an atom and an explosion. You either believe what God reveals in His Word or you go with naturalistic speculation.
    The origins of the universe, explained

    Reading this should give anyone a clear picture of man's vain speculations. Here is one snippet.

    There wasn't a single star in the universe until about 180 million years after the big bang. It took that long for gravity to gather clouds of hydrogen and forge them into stars. Many physicists think that vast clouds of dark matter, a still-unknown material that outweighs visible matter by more than five to one, provided a gravitational scaffold for the first galaxies and stars.

    Once the universe's first stars ignited, the light they unleashed packed enough punch to once again strip electrons from neutral atoms, a key chapter of the universe called reionization. In February 2018, an Australian team announced that they may have detected signs of this “cosmic dawn.” By 400 million years after the big bang, the first galaxies were born. In the billions of years since, stars, galaxies, and clusters of galaxies have formed and re-formed—eventually yielding our home galaxy, the Milky Way, and our cosmic home, the solar system.

    Here is another snippet: "Despite having atomic nuclei, the young universe was still too hot for electrons to settle in around them to form stable atoms. The universe's matter remained an electrically charged fog that was so dense, light had a hard time bouncing its way through. It would take another 380,000 years or so for the universe to cool down enough for neutral atoms to form—a pivotal moment called recombination. The cooler universe made it transparent for the first time, which let the photons rattling around within it finally zip through unimpeded."

    So much for this supposed light of the big bang reaching the earth with its light. Seems man's best conjecture is that it would take 380,000 years for the universe to cool down enough to make a transparent universe & light to reach the earth! Let alone Monsignor Lemaître saying this explosion would have obliterated any pre-existing matter! So much for man's presumptive speculations of versus the truth of God's revelation of what really happened.

    I Cor 1:19-24 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”(Isaiah 29:14) Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs & Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews & foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews & Greeks, Christ the power of God & the wisdom of God.

    Job 9:9,10 He is the Maker of the Bear & Orion, of the Pleiades & the constellations of the south. He does great & unfathomable things, wonders without number.

    Daniel 4:2 I am delighted to tell you about the signs & wonders that the Most High God has done for me.

    Stars, constellations, galaxies were not a haphazard, meaningless, random combination, but DESIGNED by God to show forth His creativity, omnipotence & Deity. There was purpose & making the stars was a delight so that we could discover His unique design & are able to know Him!

    Job 38:31-33 (God to Job) "Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades or loosen the belt of Orion? Can you direct (lead or bring forth) the Mazzaroth (the constellations) in the sequence of the seasons (Gen 1:14,15) or guide the Bear (Arcturus, Ursa Major) with her cubs (big dipper, little dipper) across the heavens? Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set their dominion over the earth?

    "Billions of years of Star formation, in six twenty four hour days, is an obstacle." Steven Merten

    In the Scriptures & in the actual universe, it isn't an obstacle because it NEVER happened this way. The truth is, God placed all the stars & planets & our solar system at one time, in one day! No need for time dilation nor the big bang nor billions of years.

    One day! Praise & glory & might & dominion to our glorious Creator!

    God was NOT hidden; He revealed the truth concerning creation & its beginning, all done in six normal days of 24 hours. Things didn't evolve over millions & billions of years. God spoke & they were there, fully formed. His laws in His creation took effect immediately. Jesus by His power holds all things together & sustains things in a complex yet ordered way. (Colossians 1:15ff). No problem here for God.

    Many propose now that aliens did all this. It makes God's revelation of Scripture very BELIEVABLE in comparison! Yes, the universe is expanding but also contracting at times or becoming stable with gravitational forces holding things from expanding further as planets & stars ORBIT. Stars disappear & reappear, due to the corrupted nature of the universe after the fall of man. Before it was very good; now corrupted & decaying slowly.

    Our new resurrected bodies will be changed INSTANTLY, in the blinking of an eye.

    Here is an indepth analysis of the time dilation theory. It is long & very detailed but does show the inherent weaknesses of it.

    Time Dilation Cosmological Models: Exegetical and Theological Considerations

    Here is one snippet: "One final point of critique regarding relativistic time dilation models needs to be raised, although it is neither an exegetical nor a theological critique. Rather, it is a critique of the inherent logic of such models in relation to the broader (scientific) argument for recent creation. Creationists have appealed to a variety of evidences in support of a recent creation for the earth & the cosmos."
    "In particular, many have argued that the persistence of the arms of spiral galaxies (which rotate at different velocities relative to their distance from a galaxy’s center) are evidence of the recent creation of those galaxies (and hence, the universe). Humphreys has been among those who use this line of argumentation (see Humphreys 2005a, i–ii cf. Humphreys 2006). However, time dilation models require that there has been billions of years of time in the distant reaches of the cosmos, as measured in local time (not earth time). If this is the case, why are not the arms of very distant spiral galaxies twisted beyond recognition?"

    Here is another plethora of Bible passages manifesting God's progressive revelation & details in the whole of Scripture concerning His creation of the heavens & the earth.

    Ps 102:19 For He looked down from the heights of His sanctuary; the LORD gazed out from heaven to earth.

    Isaiah 57:15 For thus says the high & exalted One that inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy. I dwell in the high & holy place, with him also that is of a contrite & humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble & to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

    So before one moves forward to Gen 1:2, the fact & truth of Scripture is that God created the heavens as well as the earth BEFORE God said, "Let there be light."

    Time, space & matter were brought into existence in verse one out of nothing. Now God had 'substance' with which to further form, shape, make & fill. What was without form would be shaped, as God describes the potter & the clay. What was empty would be filled.

    There was definite purpose, direction & design in God's creation, not aimless, purposeless 'evolving' of chance like the big bang & evolutionary theory state as supposed fact. The Bible continues to confirm Genesis 1:1 throughout the Bible, as well as the rest of chapter one.

    Isaiah 45:12,18,19 It is I who made the earth & CREATED man upon it. It was My hands that stretched out the heavens & I ordained all their host. For this is what the LORD says-- He who created the heavens, he is God (Elohim); He who fashioned & made the earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty (in vain), but formed it to be inhabited-- He says: "I am the LORD & there is no other. I have not spoken in secret, from a place in a land of darkness. I did not say to the descendants of Jacob: ‘Seek Me in a wasteland.’ I, the LORD, speak the truth; I say what is right.

    Isa 51:13 But you have forgotten the LORD, your Maker, who stretched out the heavens & laid the foundations of the earth.

    Jeremiah 32:17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, Thou hast made the heaven & the earth by Thy great power & stretched out arm & there is NOTHING too hard for Thee.

    Job 26:7 He spreads out (hangs) the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth on nothing.

    Isaiah 42:5 Thus says God the LORD--He who created the heavens & stretched them out, who spread out the earth & its offspring, who gives breath to the people on it & spirit to those who walk in it--

    Zechariah 12:1 An oracle of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD, Who stretches out the heavens & lays the foundation of the earth, who forms the spirit of man within him...

    Jeremiah 10:10-12,16 But the LORD is the true God; He is the living God & eternal King. The earth quakes at His wrath & the nations cannot endure His indignation.” Thus you are to tell them: “The gods that did not make heaven or earth will perish from this earth & from under these heavens.” God made the earth by His power; He established the world by His wisdom & stretched out the heavens by His understanding. The Portion of Jacob is not like these, for He is the Maker of all things: Israel is the tribe of His inheritance; the LORD of Hosts is His name. (more verses to come)
     
  17. Mathetes66

    Mathetes66 Member

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    Jeremiah 27:5 By My great power & outstretched arm, I made the earth & the men & beasts on the face of it, & I give it to whom I please.

    Psalm 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are idols, but it is the LORD who made the heavens.

    Isaiah 40:28 Have you not known? Have you not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? There is no searching out of His understanding.

    Prov 8:23 From everlasting I was established, from the beginning, before the earth began.
    Job 33:4 The Spirit of God has made me & the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
    Ps 104:30 When You send Your Spirit, they are created & You renew the face of the earth.

    Job 26:13,14 By His Spirit He (beautifully) spreads the heavens; His hand pierces the fleeing serpent. And these are but the fringes of His ways; how faint the echo we hear of Him! But who is able to grasp the meaning of His thundering power?

    Ps 139:13 For You formed my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother's womb.
    Daniel 2:22 He reveals the deep & hidden things; He knows what lies in darkness & light dwells with Him.
    Ps 115:16 The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth He has given to mankind.

    Acts 17:24,25 The God who made the world & everything in it is the Lord of heaven & earth & does not live in temples made by human hands. Nor is He served by human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself gives all men life & breath & everything else.

    Psalm 102:25,26 In the beginning You laid the foundations of the earth & the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing You will change them & they will be passed on.

    Psalm 104:2 He wraps Himself in light as with a garment; He stretches out the heavens like a tent...

    I John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from Him & announce to you, that God is Light & in Him there is no darkness at all.

    Isaiah 37:16 "O LORD of Hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the earth. You made the heavens & the earth.

    Is 40:22 He sits enthroned above the CIRCLE of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain & spreads them out like a tent to live in.

    Prov 30:4 Who has ascended to heaven & come down? Who has gathered the wind in His hands? Who has bound up the waters in His cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name & what is the name of His Son--surely you know!

    Col 1:16,17 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven & that are in earth, visible & invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were CREATED by Him & for Him...

    John 1:1-4,10 He was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him all things were made & without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life & that life was the light of men. He was in the world & the world came into existence through Him. Yet, the world didn't recognize Him.

    Job 9:8 He alone stretches out the heavens & treads on the waves of the sea.
    Psalm 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD, for He gave the command & they were created.

    John 17:5,24 And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was (existed). Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

    Matt 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

    I Pet 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.

    Psalm 8:3 When I consider Thy heavens, the work of Thy fingers, the moon & the stars, which thou hast ordained...

    Exodus 10:21,22 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Stretch out your hand toward the sky, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even a darkness which may be felt." So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven & total darkness covered all the land of Egypt for three days.

    Rev 8:12 Then the 4th angel sounded his trumpet & a 3rd of the sun & moon & stars were struck. A 3rd of the stars were darkened, a 3rd of the day was without light & a 3rd of the night as well.

    Ps 24:1,2 A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD’s & the fullness thereof, the world & all who dwell therein. For He has founded it upon the seas & established it upon the waters.

    Psalm 33:6-11 He piles up the waters of the sea; He puts the depths into storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the people of the world revere Him. For He spoke, and it came to be; He commanded & it stood firm. The LORD frustrates the plans of the nations; He thwarts the devices of the peoples. The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the purposes of His heart to all generations.

    Psalm 136:6 He spread out the earth upon the waters. His loving devotion endures forever. (see Gen 1:2,9,10)

    Job 37:18 Can you, like Him, spread out the skies to reflect the heat like a mirror of bronze?

    2 Pet 3:3-7 Most importantly, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing & following their own evil desires. “Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed & the earth was formed out of water & by water, through which the world of that time perished in the flood. And by that same word, the present heavens & earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment & destruction of ungodly men.
     
  18. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Genesis 1:1 The Story of Creation.

    Day One
    In the beginning
    , when God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

    Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.

    God saw that the light was good. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” Evening came, and morning followedthe first day.

    Day Four
    Then God said: Let there be lights in the dome of the sky, to separate day from night. Let them mark the seasons, the days and the years, and serve as lights in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth. And so it happened: God made the two great lights, the greater one to govern the day, and the lesser one to govern the night, and the stars.
    God set them in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth
    God set them in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth
    , to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning followedthe fourth day.

    Hello Matthew,

    I am a Christian believer that God created all that exists on the week Adam was made, thousands of years ago. Nothing existed before the week Adam was made. Empty space, matter, energy, light, corks, strings, whatever anyone, scientist or regular people, sees or experience today, did not exist before the week Adam was made. There was not even a physical realm in existence, before the week Adam was made.

    I am ok with those light to dark cycles on earth, God defines as 'days' being 24 hour days, during days one through day three, which during those days, earth did not have our sun and moon to regulate the duration of time elapsing during one light to dark cycle on earth. I am also ok with Christians who believe that light to dark cycles on earth which God defines as 'days', could have been longer periods of time, before the fourth day, when God created the sun, stars and moon, to govern the time elapsing during a light to dark cycles on earth.

    Do you agree?


    Are you some sort of Christian who condemns all other Christians who do not see Creation just exactly the way you do?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  19. Mathetes66

    Mathetes66 Member

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    Thank you for responding, Steven. The name I chose on here is Mathetes, which is Greek for disciple or follower. I am simply a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ & one who continues in His Word. The more I continue & remain in His Word, the more I will know the truth. And the more that I know the truth, the more I am truly set free in Christ. How wonderfully awesome is the freedom we have in Christ, but we must guard that by being a servant of Christ & yielding our bodies as instruments of righteousness, walking in the Spirit.

    As a person matures in Christ, they learn to practice spiritual discernment concerning what is good & what is evil. (Heb 5:11-6:3). The Holy Spirit (I John 2:15-21,26,27; 4:1-6) & the Scriptures (2 Tim 3:1-17) TRAIN us through our practical walk in Christ, that which is good, from God & that which is evil, from the devil & the cunning of evil men. We see the changing winds of false teaching & are no longer tossed around by the craftiness of men nor led astray into the clever lies of the devil. (Eph 4:11-16)



    One of the greatest & most pervasive lies that the devil has foisted on the world is the theory of evolution, which includes the big bang.
    It goes directly contrary to God being the creator of all things & He did it supernaturally & miraculously. Romans 1 shows what has happened. The very truth of creation is a TESTIMONY to everyone in the world of God's omnipotence & Deity as each person's Creator. God has used what He made to be a living testimony. The devil realizes that so the biggest lie he could promote would be to use the creation as a testimony against God, taking him out of the equation & discrediting it.

    Rom 1:18-25 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness & unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident WITHIN THEM; for God MADE IT EVIDENT to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power & divine nature, have been CLEARLY SEEN, BEING UNDERSTOOD THROUGH WHAT HAS BEEN MADE--so they are WITHOUT EXCUSE. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became FUTILE IN THEIR SPECULATIONS & their foolish heart was DARKENED. Professing to be wise, they became fools & exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25For they EXCHANGED THE TRUTH OF GOD FOR A LIE & worshiped & served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

    I was a biological science education major in college in the 1970's when the big bang was becoming popular. I have always said the things we discover in science support the truth of Scripture, not contradict it. It is all in how one INTERPRETS the things discovered.

    The Scopes trial in 1925 was the devil's major victory in the western world, where the belief in the creation of God was tossed for a belief in the natural processes of evolution, devoid of God or anything supernatural. The whole educational system rejected creationism & legally made it unlawful to teach it anymore. As one looks back on that, every evidence that was used to promote evolution in that trial has now been discredited, such as the Piltdown hoax. Also the 'facts' about the actual trial were distorted with lies. See the website, If All You Know about the Scopes Trial Is from "Inherit the Wind," You Don't Know the True Story and the video of the testimony of a credible eye witness at the actual trial. See also: Inherit the Wind

    Here in my own state of Washington the eruption of Mt. St. Helens in 1980 became a living testimony refuting the tenets of the evolutionary theory & geological uniformitarianism. It didn't take millions of years of erosion to carve out valleys like the Grand Canyon. Valleys were formed in a matter of hours! Spirit Lake was moved miles away from its original location. Coal is being formed at the bottom in a matter of just 40 years! The catastrophism of the millions of acres of timber flattened, I have repeatedly seen with my own eyes.

    Radiometric dating methods other than carbon14 vary widely in dating the same samples for example & the rate of them differs greatly on the first creation God made & the corrupted one & the worldwide Genesis flood. When God created it happened instantaneously & was fully formed not something that took millions & billions of years to form. This supposition throws most dating methods way off. Carbon14 is one of the more accurate ones but it is only good to 10,000 years (some try and stretch it to around 16,000 years). It usually confirms the young earth & universe premiss.

    You can read Ken Ham's book, 'The Lie: Evolution' for free online. http://www.jesuseveryday.com/free_christian_books/Ken_Ham_The_Lie.pdf

    You ask me to agree with you if it is ok for others to believe that the days of evening & morning, light cycle & night cycle are longer than a 24 hour period. I cannot agree with that based on the abundance of Scriptural evidence, of which I gave many such examples. God doesn't lie nor play games with us.

    When one capitulates to the lies of the devil in evolutionary theory, one goes down a slippery slope. I have seen this happen time after time, when compromise is made, to mix naturalistic speculations with the truth of God's Word. Theories come & go but the truth of the Word of God continues on. It will not pass away.

    That people believe in longer periods is a fact, even some who profess being Christian. The slippery slope has brought down many a one going down that path and shipwrecked the faith of many. The issue for Christians is not science but the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I gave up long ago on trying to use science as a means of convincing skeptics & unbelievers. I simply proclaim repentance & belief in the gospel & seek to get people to read the Scriptures. God by the Holy Spirit takes His living Word, convicts people of their unbelief & rebellion & brings them into a saving faith in the substitutionary death & resurrection of the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

    You keep wanting people to accept & agree with you that the light in Genesis 1:2 is the big bang. Nowhere in Scripture is this even remotely true nor in evidence. I cannot agree with you because God didn't say that & its just not true.

    You believe this in spite of what God actually said & explained in Scripture. I showed you many verses that explained what the light in Gen 1:2 referred to & it surely isn't the big bang! You are going down a slippery slope my friend & I will warn you of it just as I have warned many over the years.

    But be thankful you live in a society that has freedom of expression & thus are entitled to believe what you want. That freedom is repressed in various countries around the world.

    You ask me: "Are you some sort of Christian who condemns all other Christians who do not see Creation just exactly the way you do?"

    I dont know about a group of Christians as 'some sort of followers of Christ' as you maintain. My view of creation comes from an in-depth study & understanding of the Word of God concerning the truth of creation. I don't condemn others who want to mix naturalistic evolutionary theory with the truths of creationism, but I will certainly warn them, as I have warned you & warned many in the past.

    Scripture describes the slippery slope in Psalm 1, starting with walking in the counsel of the unbelieving. If you walk in it long enough, soon you find yourself convinced, standing with them, following their path. It isn't long before you find yourself sitting as a scoffer of those who profess the truth.

    "How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers! But his delight is in the law of the LORD & in His law he meditates day & night. He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in its season & its leaf does not wither & in whatever he does, he prospers. The wicked are not so, but they are like chaff which the wind drives away. Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish."

    The Apostle Peter spoke about the lie of uniformitarianism, one of the foundations of evolutionary theory.

    2 Pet 3:1-9 This is now, beloved, the 2nd letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, so that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets & the commandment of the Lord & Savior spoken by your apostles. Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts & saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues JUST AS IT WAS from the beginning of creation.” But when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that BY THE WORD OF GOD the heavens existed long ago & the earth was formed out of water & by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But BY HIS WORD the present heavens & earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment & destruction of ungodly men.

    The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

    My prayer & desire is that people will repent from supressing the truth about God as our Creator & worship & follow Him rather than putting their trust & faith in a supposed naturalistic universe devoid of God, His Word & His supernatural power & Deity. Those who choose not to before God, have NO EXCUSE. He made Himself known within every person & without every person in creation. Those who turn away do so at the peril of their soul.
     
  20. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Neils Bohr
    "It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties"

    Hello Mathetes,
    Do you understand that when science first delved down into the quantum (subatomic particles) world, the first thing they saw, is God? Subatomic particles are the building blocks of everything in the universe. Neils Bohr is considered the father of Quantum Theory. The scientific evidence is that sub-atomic particles are in a 'fuzzy state', non-physical particle wave of all possibilities, until, of all things, a conscious observer, Adam, looks at them. Once Adam first looks at sub-atomic particles, it is only then that they materialize into the physical form of a particle, and form all the planets, trees, rocks ect. of the reality Adam and his descendants observe and experience.

    When man looks at subatomic particles, it is only then that they lock into having a past. Of course, without Adamkind, being their to observe the past they lock into, that past never existed.
    Scientific proof, at the quantum level, tells us that our reality of the universe is like a tv show with God holding the remote. God shows us what ever reality He wishes to show us. We even had dual realities, during the same period of physical time, during the Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia

    Yes, when God first Created the universe, on the week Adam was made, thousands of years ago, there originally were no animals or woman, when Adam first opened his eyes to observe the universe, and all sub-atomic particles first materialized into physical existence, with a past. God says that there were five days before Adam opened his eyes. This is what we are discussing here. The five days of original creation, in which there were no animals or woman, or man.

    Do you understand and agree with the following PBS video which indicates we live in a 'Peek a Boo' universe, meaning a universe which does not exist without a conscious observer, Adamkind, to look at it and experience it?

     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
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