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Earth Outer Core is Spiritual

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dad

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1) If people are thrown into Hell at the judgment seat.
2) If hell is a physical place
Then is Heaven a physical place now also ?
And if so, can one Get to Heaven with the correct type of spaceship ?
The spiritual is not physical. Yet there are spirits in physical places. Like the spirits that went into a herd of swine in Jesus' day. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. You cannot drive a ship there, even if they would let you in. Heaven and hell are spiritual.

There is coming a time when the heavens will pass away, and we will have a new heavens. At that time, I think matter will be both spiritual and physical. Not physical only. Why else would we bother coming to get our bodies raised?? So, it takes both, the physical and spiritual.
Like the body of Jesus after the ressurection. There are real rivers, and trees and people, and gold, and mansions, etc in New Jerusalem. Not physical only, but also physical. Both.

IF so what good is Jesus, if we can just get into a ship and shuttle people between Hell & Heaven ?
He is the Great Spirit that gave us our eternal passport.
 
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dad

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So the underlying solid state physics changes?
I think it may disappear altogether. If the core and outer core are eternal matter, like the whole new heavens will be. After all, God is landing on eternal earth here, after the temporary state surface we live on is burned, and made new and eternal, like the rest!!

In that forever state of the physical and spiritual, no physics apply. Physics is for things just physical. Physicsa apply in the universe at large, and on the surface of earth, and down below the surface to some extent. That much I think we know. But we don't know about the inner, everlasting earth!!!!
 
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dad

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Well, yeah. Isn't the premise of this whole thread the fact that we can pick and choose what science we want to use to prove our point and invent the rest as we go along?
No. We live in a natural universe, and the law is the law is the law. The question asked is if the inner earth could be an exception to that?? After all, we are the center, of course of the universe. In the presenr state of the temporary natural, we can't see it, but when the new heavens appear it should be crystal clear.


And Hell is actually on the dark side of the Moon. It seems down because souls only travel there when the Moon is on the other side of the Earth, so they have to pass through the Earth to get there.
No, Jesus visited the spirits under the earth, not on the moon. You do need some bible support, and science, if you can as well. At least one or the other.
By another coincedence, the moon is almost the exact size that a ball covering New Jerusalem would be. Depending on what shape the city is. If it was shaped like a mountain, it more or less could fit exactly in the moon. That could be one way to remember how big it is. Heaven is about as big as the moon! Hell, possibly may be of similar same size, if it were the size of the core.

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chaoschristian

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It's the gravity of the proposition.

Why is this such a big deal? We all know that this is a mysterious subject with no clear answer from any side. Why would it be a question of maturity or realism?

I can't even figure out why the TEs even care. Evolution, I can understand. Why does this question even matter to a TE cosmology?
 
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dad

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I thought the OP was kind of interesting. Obviously some speculation was involved.

However, the gratuitous attacks remind me about why I find other things to do. Have a nice fellowship.
I have a thick crust.
 
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theFijian

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busterdog said:
I thought the OP was kind of interesting. Obviously some speculation was involved.
I find it interesting that there is so much acceptance of ancient Hebraic cosmology these days. Well more strange than interesting.

PS - Lots of speculation was involved
 
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Parmenio

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Dad, I do believe it is deemed uncouth to just keep posting over and over again as to use up several pages. If you've more to add, just edit the post.

That said, my response to all of your conjecture is this: Wow, you really believe that? I mean really really? I think from now on, I'm setting the bar at derivatives. If you can give me the derivative of x^2, I'll listen a bit to your ramblings on geology.
 
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busterdog

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I find it interesting that there is so much acceptance of ancient Hebraic cosmology these days. Well more strange than interesting.

PS - Lots of speculation was involved

I find it infuriating that issues clearly within the realm of an acknowledged mystery gets guffaws as in several of the comments by various posters.

Several of the above posters have been rude, ignorant and apparently are unable to read intelligently. If a poster can't read the OP intelligently, but can only misconstrue it, better to just stay out of it.

The speculation of the OP is not without some scriptural support. That is, this is the cosmology of Jesus. You can debate whether that is literal or metaphorical, but you cannot disprove a spiritual reality by science. So why does this become an example of an ignorant YEC cosmology?

And this gets compared to flat earth? Please. This is groundless insult.

The science of what is in the earth's core is a completely different issue. If you think the science is nuts, well, I can understand that debate. But that was not the predominant basis on which the OP was attacked. It was on the basis of "cosmology" in an area that all agree to be outside of the realm of scientific proof.
 
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shernren

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I find it infuriating that issues clearly within the realm of an acknowledged mystery gets guffaws as in several of the comments by various posters.

Several of the above posters have been rude, ignorant and apparently are unable to read intelligently. If a poster can't read the OP intelligently, but can only misconstrue it, better to just stay out of it.

Oooh. Someone's mad. The problem is, I take claims of martyrdom seriously. So let's look back through the pages of the thread.

Page 1: Dad comes up with a theory about hell. Note that right below his point of "scientists still don't know what the Earth's core is made of" he puts an article detailing exactly the direct observation of the Earth's inner core's solid state characteristics.

Response? A hearty agreement from busterdog based on exactly one verse of Scripture, some cute questions about how many people the outer core of the Earth can fit (thus determining the capacity of Hell), and some honest questions about whether a soul (if that is the right handle) physically exists at all.

Page 2: theFijian brings up WCF's take on hell, which is never interacted with in the rest of the thread. (In this case I'd say silence is a concession, isn't it?) A cute little jab by Parmenio which led to a serious entry by rmwilliamsll about how misinterpreting the Scriptures can lead to all sorts of physical insensibilities - again, this was never interacted with in the rest of the thread. Grimbly and KerrMetric bring up dad's past behavior, which I would deem relevant in this case.

Page 3: 8 posts of dad defending himself, with only another question from theFijian where he asks if dad's idea of Hell comes more from the Bible or from Dante (which, again, is not interacted with in the rest of the thread).

Page 4: Mallon reveals that the inner core of the earth can indeed fit a lot of people. A strange tangent on magnetism continues into ...

Page 5: busterdog complains about "gratuitous attacks", and theFijian complains that ancient Hebraic cosmology is being accepted.

Page 6: More martyrdom complaints.

Quite frankly, I don't think I've seen any rudeness at all here. The only thing that might possibly be offensive would be when some people raised dad's past records on other sites and forums - even then, everything that they said was quite strictly true, even if it was maliciously intended (which I doubt; you can report those posts as personal insults if you disagree).

The problem is simply that the claim "hell is in the center of the earth" really can't be interacted with much. The only issues it can raise are: why do we assume hell is a physical place, why do we assume souls have physical existence, and isn't this a good example of the Bible being misinterpreted to support a physically absurd conclusion? Each of these ideas were thrown out on the thread and then died for dearth of attention, leaving nothing but lightweight jests and prods, to which the label of "rude and ignorant" certainly seems excessive.

I do recall one snide post here though (and yes, I'm being snide here myself), this was particularly peculiar:

Lets also be absurd and say that if Jesus was really resurrected and talked with his disciples, there must be archeological evidence of Wile E Coyote style holes in the walls of rooms that he entered without using door, as is taught of his post-resurrection appearnces.

I wonder who would make such a strange and obviously insulting extrapolation of perfectly fine TE thoughts.

The speculation of the OP is not without some scriptural support. That is, this is the cosmology of Jesus. You can debate whether that is literal or metaphorical, but you cannot disprove a spiritual reality by science. So why does this become an example of an ignorant YEC cosmology?

The "cosmology of Jesus", i.e., a single verse quoted out of context.

But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(Matthew 12:39-40 RSV)

There is a perfectly simple explanation: Jesus was buried in a tomb for three days and three nights, was He not? A little hyperbole gets us "the heart of the earth". Furthermore, Jesus was specifically predicting a sign He would perform for the people. Now, which do you think more likely as the sign: Jesus was buried for three days, or Jesus went to hell for three days? Which formed the heart of the apostles' witness? Which does the NT put more emphasis on? The NT spends so little time on Jesus being in hell and so much time on Jesus being in the grave that it makes far more sense to think of "the heart of the earth" as a hyperbolic reference to Jesus' tomb.

And this gets compared to flat earth? Please. This is groundless insult.

Grounds provided in #15.

The science of what is in the earth's core is a completely different issue. If you think the science is nuts, well, I can understand that debate. But that was not the predominant basis on which the OP was attacked. It was on the basis of "cosmology" in an area that all agree to be outside of the realm of scientific proof.

It was attacked on the bases that souls (if that is the right handle on the afterlife) do not have physical existence, that hell isn't a physical place and so would be absurd to label it with a physical location, and that the whole thing is simply another example of Biblical misinterpretation.

I have no idea why you expend so much energy defending the OP. Enemy of my enemy?
 
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busterdog

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Oooh. Someone's mad. The problem is, I take claims of martyrdom seriously. So let's look back through the pages of the thread.

Page 1: Dad comes up with a theory about hell. Note that right below his point of "scientists still don't know what the Earth's core is made of" he puts an article detailing exactly the direct observation of the Earth's inner core's solid state characteristics.

Response? A hearty agreement from busterdog based on exactly one verse of Scripture, some cute questions about how many people the outer core of the Earth can fit (thus determining the capacity of Hell), and some honest questions about whether a soul (if that is the right handle) physically exists at all.

Page 2: theFijian brings up WCF's take on hell, which is never interacted with in the rest of the thread. (In this case I'd say silence is a concession, isn't it?) A cute little jab by Parmenio which led to a serious entry by rmwilliamsll about how misinterpreting the Scriptures can lead to all sorts of physical insensibilities - again, this was never interacted with in the rest of the thread. Grimbly and KerrMetric bring up dad's past behavior, which I would deem relevant in this case.

Page 3: 8 posts of dad defending himself, with only another question from theFijian where he asks if dad's idea of Hell comes more from the Bible or from Dante (which, again, is not interacted with in the rest of the thread).

Page 4: Mallon reveals that the inner core of the earth can indeed fit a lot of people. A strange tangent on magnetism continues into ...

Page 5: busterdog complains about "gratuitous attacks", and theFijian complains that ancient Hebraic cosmology is being accepted.

Page 6: More martyrdom complaints.

Quite frankly, I don't think I've seen any rudeness at all here. The only thing that might possibly be offensive would be when some people raised dad's past records on other sites and forums - even then, everything that they said was quite strictly true, even if it was maliciously intended (which I doubt; you can report those posts as personal insults if you disagree).

The problem is simply that the claim "hell is in the center of the earth" really can't be interacted with much. The only issues it can raise are: why do we assume hell is a physical place, why do we assume souls have physical existence, and isn't this a good example of the Bible being misinterpreted to support a physically absurd conclusion? Each of these ideas were thrown out on the thread and then died for dearth of attention, leaving nothing but lightweight jests and prods, to which the label of "rude and ignorant" certainly seems excessive.

I do recall one snide post here though (and yes, I'm being snide here myself), this was particularly peculiar:

Lets also be absurd and say that if Jesus was really resurrected and talked with his disciples, there must be archeological evidence of Wile E Coyote style holes in the walls of rooms that he entered without using door, as is taught of his post-resurrection appearnces.

I wonder who would make such a strange and obviously insulting extrapolation of perfectly fine TE thoughts.



The "cosmology of Jesus", i.e., a single verse quoted out of context.

But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(Matthew 12:39-40 RSV)

There is a perfectly simple explanation: Jesus was buried in a tomb for three days and three nights, was He not? A little hyperbole gets us "the heart of the earth". Furthermore, Jesus was specifically predicting a sign He would perform for the people. Now, which do you think more likely as the sign: Jesus was buried for three days, or Jesus went to hell for three days? Which formed the heart of the apostles' witness? Which does the NT put more emphasis on? The NT spends so little time on Jesus being in hell and so much time on Jesus being in the grave that it makes far more sense to think of "the heart of the earth" as a hyperbolic reference to Jesus' tomb.



Grounds provided in #15.



It was attacked on the bases that souls (if that is the right handle on the afterlife) do not have physical existence, that hell isn't a physical place and so would be absurd to label it with a physical location, and that the whole thing is simply another example of Biblical misinterpretation.

I have no idea why you expend so much energy defending the OP. Enemy of my enemy?

Again, a demonstration of the difference between reading with grace or for the purposes of prosecution. Interest in the idea is not commitment to the idea. Read what was said again.

Context for "heart of the earth"? THis is a nonissue. There is no proof text to change the plain meaning. There is only a difference in philosophy about how to read that verse. When faced with that dilemma, it is a good time to take back the rhetoric a notch before you criticize someeone.

No one accused TE of a frivolous view about here hell is located.

Frankly, I don't care greatly about how that verse is read, but it is evidence and it is interesting and it does appear to be a statement of cosmology. There should be enough grace available to read such views without ridicule.
 
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gluadys

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The "cosmology of Jesus", i.e., a single verse quoted out of context.

But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(Matthew 12:39-40 RSV)

There is a perfectly simple explanation: Jesus was buried in a tomb for three days and three nights, was He not? A little hyperbole gets us "the heart of the earth". Furthermore, Jesus was specifically predicting a sign He would perform for the people. Now, which do you think more likely as the sign: Jesus was buried for three days, or Jesus went to hell for three days? Which formed the heart of the apostles' witness? Which does the NT put more emphasis on? The NT spends so little time on Jesus being in hell and so much time on Jesus being in the grave that it makes far more sense to think of "the heart of the earth" as a hyperbolic reference to Jesus' tomb.

Indeed, most of our ideas about hell owe more to medieval imagination (e.g. Dante) than to the bible. The vast majority of biblical references to hell (in the KJV) refer to the Hebrew 'sheol' or the Greek 'hades' which were simply the places of the dead i.e. the grave. The old Anglo-Saxon 'hel' meant the same thing. It was practically identical to 'hades'.

It is unlikely that the Hebrews thought of people in hell being conscious until they appropriated that idea from the Greeks. The notion of 'hades' was much more detailed in Greek mythology than 'sheol' ever was. The KJV also translates 'sheol' as "grave" and "pit". So burial is a proper understanding of what Jesus meant.

Interestingly, in the Gospels, the word most often translated into the English "hell" is neither 'sheol' nor 'hades' but 'gehenna' the name of Jerusalem's garbage dump.

People also confuse hell with Revelation's lake of fire. Hell (i.e. 'hades') does not have eternal existence. It is destroyed along with death in the lake of fire.
 
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dad

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Dad, I do believe it is deemed uncouth to just keep posting over and over again as to use up several pages. If you've more to add, just edit the post.

That said, my response to all of your conjecture is this: Wow, you really believe that? I mean really really? I think from now on, I'm setting the bar at derivatives. If you can give me the derivative of x^2, I'll listen a bit to your ramblings on geology.
I'll post whenever and wherever I like. If you have numbers that are relevant, do tell.
 
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dad

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Page 1: Dad comes up with a theory about hell. Note that right below his point of "scientists still don't know what the Earth's core is made of" he puts an article detailing exactly the direct observation of the Earth's inner core's solid state characteristics.
No. They assume a lot of things, and, if it is as assumed, then, they figure, it must be a certain way. The idea here is to check their homework. In the end, the best way to describe the abilities of science to definitely say what the outer core, and inner core is "I don't know". Better to be honest. If we did know, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Response? A hearty agreement from busterdog based on exactly one verse of Scripture, some cute questions about how many people the outer core of the Earth can fit (thus determining the capacity of Hell),
I disagree. The aproxamite capacity of hell, or New Jerusalem would only be at one point in future time. Can you tell us that heaven could not expand to accomodate more in the future idf the need arose? Afer all, what are the limitations of forever matter?? As a sidenote, I think I may have rememberd wrong. (I think I said 5 people per square mile?) If so, no it was 5 people per 125 square miles!!!! -To be able to comfortably fit 23 billion people in New Jerusalem according to the measurements of the city when John had a boo at it! How many do you know with a ranch that size on earth??!!! Or, a tall building, say, a mile high, on 32 acres!? (Same area sq footage) A mile high building, with 32 1 acre apartments on each floor for each five people! (Not meant to be literal, there, I know I wouldn't want one of those).
The point being, that there is room in heaven and hell for all that ever lived so far on earth.

and some honest questions about whether a soul (if that is the right handle) physically exists at all.
Spirits do not exist physically, hence, we call them spirits.

Page 2: theFijian brings up WCF's take on hell, which is never interacted with in the rest of the thread. (In this case I'd say silence is a concession, isn't it?) A cute little jab by Parmenio which led to a serious entry by rmwilliamsll about how misinterpreting the Scriptures can lead to all sorts of physical insensibilities - again, this was never interacted with in the rest of the thread. Grimbly and KerrMetric bring up dad's past behavior, which I would deem relevant in this case.
Objection, biased.
Page 3: 8 posts of dad defending himself, with only another question from theFijian where he asks if dad's idea of Hell comes more from the Bible or from Dante (which, again, is not interacted with in the rest of the thread).
I responded to each post. Is that unusual in this part of the forum??

Page 4: Mallon reveals that the inner core of the earth can indeed fit a lot of people. A strange tangent on magnetism continues into ...
So?

Page 5: busterdog complains about "gratuitous attacks", and theFijian complains that ancient Hebraic cosmology is being accepted.
That did seem a bit off to me.


The problem is simply that the claim "hell is in the center of the earth" really can't be interacted with much. The only issues it can raise are: why do we assume hell is a physical place, why do we assume souls have physical existence,
Jesus was both physical and spiritual as was pointed out. Not physical. Not just spiritual. One might call it merged. When we are ressurected that is how we are.

and isn't this a good example of the Bible being misinterpreted to support a physically absurd conclusion?
No. Hell and heaven are very real. And that we have our bodies raised, is also a fact. (in their new forever state, which is also spiritual)

There is a perfectly simple explanation: Jesus was buried in a tomb for three days and three nights, was He not? A little hyperbole gets us "the heart of the earth". Furthermore, Jesus was specifically predicting a sign He would perform for the people. Now, which do you think more likely as the sign: Jesus was buried for three days, or Jesus went to hell for three days?
Jesus went to hell for three days. How many spirits in prison do you propose He preached to in a tomb, being dead and all??

It was attacked on the bases that souls (if that is the right handle on the afterlife) do not have physical existence, that hell isn't a physical place and so would be absurd to label it with a physical location, and that the whole thing is simply another example of Biblical misinterpretation.
If the heart of the earth is not a physical location, as this thread posits, it is not at all absurd, but the scriptures all make a lot of sense. So, you likely assume as I did, and probably almost everyone does, that all of earth is as the surface. Very normal way to think, cause this is all we know. But if the earth is forever (it could not be, like the sun, if it was in the present decaying state, as we know by science) why not have forever inards???!!!
 
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theFijian

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Page 2: theFijian brings up WCF's take on hell, which is never interacted with in the rest of the thread. (In this case I'd say silence is a concession, isn't it?) A cute little jab by Parmenio which led to a serious entry by rmwilliamsll about how misinterpreting the Scriptures can lead to all sorts of physical insensibilities - again, this was never interacted with in the rest of the thread. Grimbly and KerrMetric bring up dad's past behavior, which I would deem relevant in this case.
Objection, biased.
Note to Busterdog: unfortunately this is the level dad reduces a discussion to.

Jesus went to hell for three days.

Luke 23:34 - "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"
 
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dad

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Note to Busterdog: unfortunately this is the level dad reduces a discussion to.



Luke 23:34 - "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"
Yes, It was there still at the time of Jesus. When did the old testament saints arise? After He arose, this moots your point. Try again.
 
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