Earth is Flat

[Kinable]

That is only your very poor interpretation of that verse. A more accurate one would ban photography. Didn't you try to use photography to prove your point?

That's why I said it's just a thought, not meant to be taken too seriously and a way I see this scripture.

 

[Freodin]

...

I repeat my offer.
You asked for an explanation why "the earth is too big" is an "excuse" for the invalidty of your views on gravity.

If you really have an interest in understanding, and are not only throwing out dismissals of everything you disagree with... I am willing to offer you an explanation.

You want people to watch the videos you posted and accept your arguments. Please return this courtesy to others.

 

[topher694]

if you've refuted, then be my guest. I am not only asking about the earth's shape, but if you've noticed, I am also speaking of the firmament, and stillness of the earth as well. I could go into the heavenly bodies and how they are all within the firmament as well, or even onto Noah, and his waters that came raining from the windows of heaven. Windows of which only make sense on a firm structure. Or even the ends of the earth, and how Jesus departed, and how he arrives, being seen by all people on earth, on your "globe" that does not make sense biblically. You can try it, but I doubt you will genuinely be analyzing the verses, or in their context, or as a Christian(i don't know if you are or not). Which my proposals are mainly towards other Christians, since the bible even states that what we believe is a stumbling block to the Jews, and foolishness to the greeks(in most translations, gentiles).

I am a Christian. I am a senior pastor, and as such have studied and preached on many of the verses FEers use in depth. It's not good form to start by throwing out accusations. The Bible talks of the "accuser of the brethren"... hint: It's not a good thing.

What you have done above is just throw a bunch of different and unrelated things out there without any context of what you believe the scriptures you reference are saying (other than the general "Earth is flat"), why you believe they point to a flat earth? Additionally, you have misrepresented 1 Cor 1:23 as well. Not a good start.

 

[tryphena rose]

I am a Christian. I am a senior pastor, and as such have studied and preached on many of the verses FEers use in depth. It's not good form to start by throwing out accusations. The Bible talks of the "accuser of the brethren"... hint: It's not a good thing.

What you have done above is just throw a bunch of different and unrelated things out there without any context of what you believe the scriptures you reference are saying (other than the general "Earth is flat"), why you believe they point to a flat earth. Additionally, you have misrepresented 1 Cor 1:23 as well. Not a good start.

I didn't accuse, I actually stated that I did not know if you are a christian or not. There happens to be plenty of atheists here so I have no way of knowing. If you have it written somewhere that you are a Christian, then I did not read it. It is as simple as that. But I do notice that you have yet to refute any of what I've said, you've only claimed it all to be wrong. Which is dismissive and unimpressive.

 

[Freodin]

I didn't accuse, I actually stated that I did not know if you are a christian or not. There happens to be plenty of atheists here so I have no way of knowing. If you have it written somewhere that you are a Christian, then I did not read it. It is as simple as that. But I do notice that you have yet to refute any of what I've said, you've only claimed it all to be wrong. Which is dismissive and unimpressive.

I suppose you are connected with a smartphone or something similar?

In the full web version, there is a box with some of your stats underneath your avatar, which can include your "faith".
For example, mine says "Atheist", yours says just "Christian" while topher has gone for a just slightly more specific "non-denom".

 

[topher694]

I didn't accuse, I actually stated that I did not know if you are a christian or not.

Accusation:

but I doubt you will genuinely be analyzing the verses, or in their context

There happens to be plenty of atheists here so I have no way of knowing. If you have it written somewhere that you are a Christian, then I did not read it. It is as simple as that.

It says right under our name and avatars

But I do notice that you have yet to refute any of what I've said, you've only claimed it all to be wrong. Which is dismissive and unimpressive.

What is unimpressive is your selective reading:

What you have done above is just throw a bunch of different and unrelated things out there without any context of what you believe the scriptures you reference are saying (other than the general "Earth is flat"), why you believe they point to a flat earth?

Perhaps you'd like to actually clarify what you mean, as I stated above, before throwing out more verbal attacks.

 

[tryphena rose]

I suppose you are connected with a smartphone or something similar?

In the full web version, there is a box with some of your stats underneath your avatar, which can include your "faith".
For example, mine says "Atheist", yours says just "Christian" while topher has gone for a just slightly more specific "non-denom".

No, I'm actually the husband of TryphenaRose typing, and I have been the person speaking with you this whole time. I don't actually know much about this forum, except for what my wife tells me. This is why I was not aware of these stats. Thanks for the information!

 

[tryphena rose]

Accusation:




It says right under our name and avatars



What is unimpressive is your selective reading:

Perhaps you'd like to actually clarify what your mean, as I stated above, before throwing out more verbal attacks.

if you're not going to offer what you have to refute, then I guess there's nothing to say now is there? That is precisely what I have asked for.

 

[topher694]

if you're not going to offer what you have to refute, then I guess there's nothing to say now is there? That is precisely what I have asked for.

Refute what? Give me some scriptures and WHY you think they point to a flat earth... you've provided nothing but generalities, so all I can do is refute with generalities.

 

[tryphena rose]

Ok, how about I have personally investigated over 200 scriptures used by flat earthers and have refuted them all. They have nothing to do with the shape of the Earth either way. Which one would you like to start with?

Here you've said over 200 scriptures that you've refuted. That is what I've been waiting to hear this whole time. if you have over 200, couldn't you start anywhere? I already said to feel free and refute. I've left two long posts in this forum with plenty of verses already, you can start there if you like.

 

[topher694]

Here you've said over 200 scriptures that you've refuted. That is what I've been waiting to hear this whole time. if you have over 200, couldn't you start anywhere? I already said to feel free and refute. I've left two long posts in this forum with plenty of verses already, you can start there if you like.

A while back on a similar thread someone posted a link to a website with over 200 scriptures that "proved" flat earth... I went through each one and found every single one lacking, often with the same mistakes made over and over... I mentioned if for context. But, if I use that I'll just be accused of referencing something you didn't say. There are 17 pages and over 300 posts on this thread. If you are convinced the Bible says the Earth is flat, it shouldn't be that hard to give one or two AND why you think they point to a flat earth... if you are going to claim that is what the Bible says, that HAS to be the starting point.

 

[A_Thinker]

"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:" Isaiah 40:22 KJV

note how it states circle and not sphere. a circle being 2 dimensional and flat. If he is God, which He is, then He is perfectly able to have had the word ball or sphere in the place of circle, if he pleased. To state that the use of the word grasshoppers tent or curtains are poetic, thus the whole verse is poetic, is disengenuous.

The passage is poetic ... there is no denying that.

And poets use "poetic language", rather than "scientific language".

The passage can't be (2) things. It's either poetic ... or it's a science text ...

 

[topher694]

if you're not going to offer what you have to refute, then I guess there's nothing to say now is there? That is precisely what I have asked for.

Here's the closest thing I've got from you so far to an actual scripture and what you think it means:

since the bible even states that what we believe is a stumbling block to the Jews, and foolishness to the greeks(in most translations, gentiles

While not directly about FE, it seems this is used to validate the opposition to FE. This quote highlights one of the typical deceptive tactics often employed by FE: changing the context.

what 1 Cor 1:23 FULLY says is this:
but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness.

Notice how the context for the "stumbling block" and "foolishness" was left out of the original quote? Then it was used to imply that "what we believe", includes flat earth and therefore it is only natural, Biblical even, that people would reject flat Earth. That is a dishonest use of scripture. 1 Cor 1:23 is actually Paul referencing his experience in Acts 16 & 17 which has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth and everything to do with preaching the Gospel.

 

[Freodin]

Here you've said over 200 scriptures that you've refuted. That is what I've been waiting to hear this whole time. if you have over 200, couldn't you start anywhere? I already said to feel free and refute. I've left two long posts in this forum with plenty of verses already, you can start there if you like.

It can be a little hard to go back through a long thread and find relevant posts.
So it would be helpful if you just could post some of them again, to have a starting point.
Of course it would be possible for topher to start... but then he might chose a verse that you don't accept.

So for convenience sake, please just post one of your chosen verses again. In this case, I am on your side and would very much like to see how topher is going to argue against your position.

 

[tryphena rose]

to both of you @Freodin and @topher694 , sorry for the delay but I'm actually about to go out with my wife. I won't be back for a few hours, so please I insist you start with you're rebuttal so that by the time I come back I can see it. I simply don't have the time to write right now, for my wife's been waiting on me this whole time I've been speaking with the two of you.

 

[Freodin]

to both of you @Freodin and @topher694 , sorry for the delay but I'm actually about to go out with my wife. I won't be back for a few hours, so please I insist you start with you're rebuttal so that by the time I come back I can see it. I simply don't have the time to write right now, for my wife's been waiting on me this whole time I've been speaking with the two of you.

Well... then I am off to bed... it's almost midnight here.

Have fun whatever you are about to do, and stay safe and healthy!

 

[Amittai]

Why is there no "Christian Only" section where we can talk about Flat Earth? Why is blasphemy allowed on a Christian forum? Why are you guys even here? I used the scientific method perfectly but you didn't agree because my experiment didn't align with your confirmation bias.

You would only get "Christian blasphemers". Has anyone addressed my posts 273, 275, 276? Scripture is irrefutable and has meaning for our lives and needs its meanings and the meanings need the Scriptures. Genre writing doesn't in fact impair irrefutability at all, because of the meanings. Words allude, and we are only able to equate through a number of intersecting statements & meanings.

 

[topher694]

ok, I can use the one A_Thinker referenced:

"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:" Isaiah 40:22 KJV

note how it states circle and not sphere. a circle being 2 dimensional and flat. If he is God, which He is, then He is perfectly able to have had the word ball or sphere in the place of circle, if he pleased. To state that the use of the word grasshoppers tent or curtains are poetic, thus the whole verse is poetic, is disengenuous. you all use analogies to explain reality every single day. the use of grasshoppers relates to our size in relation to his, which is fitting. curtain denotes physicality and barrier, and tent does as well, coming all the way back around to His firmament. these things only sound poetic to those that ignore or write it off, but it can very plainly be seen what the bible is inferring.

First, what is the context of Isaiah 40? It is a prophetic word of comfort to Israel, specifically Jerusalem in a terrible, terrible time (under siege by a brutal army for 2 years). When you read the entire chapter God is talking about how much BIGGER He is than their current circumstances. His word endures forever. His strong hand will deliver them. He is their reward. He knows better. The nations that come against them are nothing to God. And on, and on, and on.

"Circle of the Earth" was a common phrase then which basically meant "as far as the eye can see". Verse 22 is saying: "It may not look good now, but God is above the highest mountains and He can see things you cannot see, so trust Him". Not literally, but He can see the victory in what looks to them to be a utterly hopeless situation (and that is exactly what happened later). This is completely consistent with God's nature and character and with many other scriptures including the Gospels.

Further, if one were to apply the FE logic consistently to the rest of the chapter (which is all the same prophetic word) one would have to conclude:
God audibly calls out our names from the sky
God puts people into the ground so they will grow like plants
That He is literally carrying around a bunch of baby sheep in His arms
(that's just to name a few)

To say Is 40:22 refers to the shape of the earth requires selective interpretation and application of the scripture. It changes the meaning of a powerful prophetic word to NOT be about God's greatness and power, and deliverance, but instead the shape of the Earth. It is also entirely inconsistent with the nature of the prophetic.

 

[Amittai]

Hi Kinable & Tryphena, try my post 275 and my 339 for size.

Is Topher's account of Is 40 suspect? Why would its meaning not speak to us this way in the here and now?

I am thrilled Freodin has been able to join in.

Freodin, do please explain a vector!

 

[prodromos]

you do see it plainly what it does say in God's word.

In John 6, Jesus plainly states that we need to eat His flesh and drink His blood, otherwise we have no life in Him.

Are you consistent in how you interpret Scripture or do you claim there is another way to interpret what Christ plainly states?