Dust and Breath

[Chesterton]

I think creationists believe that God literally "formed man of the dust of the ground". But the next phrase in the same sentence is "and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life". God can't breathe unless He has lungs and all that's required for respiration, basically, unless He has some kind of body. But God having a body is an un-Christian teaching. So is one idea literal and the other symbolic?

 

[juvenissun]

We must ask a question: What is the appearance of Jesus before He was born to the earth?

It is said that Jesus takes a human shape. But it is probably more correct to say that human takes His shape.

It is not a surprise that human can reason that a god also has a spirit. But it never occurred to any human that God also has a third persona "at the beginning". This third person MUST be different from God and the Spirit, that both are shapeless.

So, Christianity has a very complete concept on the origin of human, include the shape of human. The question interested me is: why this particular shape? Why not a shape like an octopus? Keep in mind that any attempted answer with the consideration of any physical environment will not apply. This is the shape Jesus has right from the beginning of time.

 

[Willtor]

The Son did not have physical form prior to the Incarnation (except as He chose). The Imago Dei has nothing to do with physical form. Not even a little. Else, we should be afraid of injury -- even injury in His name -- lest we drift further from His image. If there is intrinsic physical form in the godhead, we should ask the question of which skin color is most pure. We should ask whether those with birth defects or disfiguring injuries can ever attain the image of God.

 

[solarwave]

We must ask a question: What is the appearance of Jesus before He was born to the earth?

It is said that Jesus takes a human shape. But it is probably more correct to say that human takes His shape.

It is not a surprise that human can reason that a god also has a spirit. But it never occurred to any human that God also has a third persona "at the beginning". This third person MUST be different from God and the Spirit, that both are shapeless.

So, Christianity has a very complete concept on the origin of human, include the shape of human. The question interested me is: why this particular shape? Why not a shape like an octopus? Keep in mind that any attempted answer with the consideration of any physical environment will not apply. This is the shape Jesus has right from the beginning of time.

Doesn't that make Christ a created being and so not God? Or are you saying the Godhead was one before creation and then took on two different forms (the Holy Spirit and human Christ) after creation?

 

[marktheblake]

But God having a body is an un-Christian teaching.

In Gen 3 God is walking in the Garden. Are you going to ask us now how God can walk without legs?

What about when God spoke, are you going ask how he can speak without a mouth?

If you read Genesis from the perspective that God really is the Creator, then there is really no limits to what he can do.

God is a spirit, he does not have a body. There is however no reason why he cannot reveal himself in a physical form, and there is no logic on your part for determining limits on his power.

 

[Jase]

In Gen 3 God is walking in the Garden. Are you going to ask us now how God can walk without legs?

What about when God spoke, are you going ask how he can speak without a mouth?

If you read Genesis from the perspective that God really is the Creator, then there is really no limits to what he can do.

God is a spirit, he does not have a body. There is however no reason why he cannot reveal himself in a physical form, and there is no logic on your part for determining limits on his power.

The Israelites heavily anthropomorphized God in the OT for us to better relate - so no God does not walk or talk with a mouth.

 

[juvenissun]

Doesn't that make Christ a created being and so not God? Or are you saying the Godhead was one before creation and then took on two different forms (the Holy Spirit and human Christ) after creation?

Christian God is a Trinity. So, if you could try to describe Them on the aspect of Their shape or shapeless from the very beginning.

 

[solarwave]

Christian God is a Trinity. So, if you could try to describe Them on the aspect of Their shape or shapeless from the very beginning.

I don't know what you asking.

 

[juvenissun]

The Son did not have physical form prior to the Incarnation (except as He chose). The Imago Dei has nothing to do with physical form. Not even a little. Else, we should be afraid of injury -- even injury in His name -- lest we drift further from His image. If there is intrinsic physical form in the godhead, we should ask the question of which skin color is most pure. We should ask whether those with birth defects or disfiguring injuries can ever attain the image of God.

When God creates man, man needs a shape. So, why does God make us the shape we have? Why is our shape not like an octopus (and can swim in air)?

Because there is a model there, the shape of Jesus Christ. I am not saying that Jesus has a physical body to begin with. But He has a shape at the beginning. Is it possible to have a shape without substance? I don't know. If you want me to imagine, then may be a shape made of energy? Or a shape in 11 dimensions? Do you believe that the angel is real? Do you believe that there might be angels around you right now? Can you see them? Do they have a shape? When we go up there to see God, we will not see God, but "see" angels and "see" Jesus.

This is also a fundamental problem with TE. The shape of human is pre-determined. Then the evolution (if true) would have to try hard to meet its goal.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't know what you asking.

If God and Jesus IS there at the beginning, then how do you tell them apart? You must. Because if not, then there is no need to have two.

 

[Donasta]

If God and Jesus IS there at the beginning, then how do you tell them apart? You must. Because if not, then there is no need to have two.

The shape of mankind was Adam, male and female. Then he separated them and the image was male and female with God. Does that help? Because we all have to get back to the garden, don't we?

 

[Mallon]

Because we all have to get back to the garden, don't we?

Can't. I'm told it washed away in the Flood.

 

[Willtor]

When God creates man, man needs a shape. So, why does God make us the shape we have? Why is our shape not like an octopus (and can swim in air)?

Because there is a model there, the shape of Jesus Christ. I am not saying that Jesus has a physical body to begin with. But He has a shape at the beginning. Is it possible to have a shape without substance? I don't know. If you want me to imagine, then may be a shape made of energy? Or a shape in 11 dimensions? Do you believe that the angel is real? Do you believe that there might be angels around you right now? Can you see them? Do they have a shape? When we go up there to see God, we will not see God, but "see" angels and "see" Jesus.

This is also a fundamental problem with TE. The shape of human is pre-determined. Then the evolution (if true) would have to try hard to meet its goal.

I hope I'm not understanding you, correctly. Are you trying to communicate that, e.g., a godly amputee is less in the image of God than an ungodly whole person?

 

[juvenissun]

I hope I'm not understanding you, correctly. Are you trying to communicate that, e.g., a godly amputee is less in the image of God than an ungodly whole person?

Please describe the characters of godly amputee. I don't know what that is.

 

[juvenissun]

The shape of mankind was Adam, male and female. Then he separated them and the image was male and female with God. Does that help? Because we all have to get back to the garden, don't we?

... and the shape of Adam is ?

 

[pilgrimage]

... and the shape of Adam is ?

Genesis 5:2
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

[shernren]

I hope I'm not understanding you, correctly. Are you trying to communicate that, e.g., a godly amputee is less in the image of God than an ungodly whole person?

Or a woman less in the image of God than a man, at that.

 

[juvenissun]

Genesis 5:2
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Many married Christian women today refused to take husband's surname. This is unBiblical.

I wish you would quote 5:1 too.

 

[Assyrian]

Many married Christian women today refused to take husband's surname. This is unBiblical.

I wish you would quote 5:1 too.

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, he made him in God's likeness.
2 He created them male and female, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Happy?

Where does it say Eve to Adam's name when they got married? This is talking about God's name for them when he created them.

 

[Willtor]

Please describe the characters of godly amputee. I don't know what that is.

E.g., someone who was so devoted to Christ that when authorities came and told him/her to [bow before an idol|renounce Christ|live in debauchery|despise widows and orphans] he/she refused -- and so the authorities took an arm.

In that moment, did this person lose something of the image of God?