Drop your theological errors off here...

[JacksBratt]

I'm of the persuasion that we don't read the scriptures -- the scriptures read us.
Hence the variety; there are as many interpretations as there are hearts.

That may be, however all written text has a direct message that was intended to be preceived from reading it.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Thanks, I stand corrected

No worries mate!

Forgive me...

 

[JacksBratt]

Where do these elders get these prayers of the saints?

Rev 5:8
"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."

Why do they have them?

Forgive me...

It does not say that the prayers were from humans to them and it also seems to me that they are only delivering the prayers to the rightful receiver.... Christ.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

It does not say that the prayers were from humans to them and it also seems to me that they are only delivering the prayers to the rightful receiver.... Christ.

That's correct... and that's where they should go, we agree on that.

I don't know of anything else besides humans that pray.

Forgive me...

 

[HighCherub]

There may be statues in many protestant churches but you will never see a knelling pad in front of it, never see anyone kneel of bow to it or kiss it. There are statues all over the place... but when you kneel and pray in front of it....it becomes worship.

If you're kneeling to someone who serves the Lord as their God, than you are not committing idolatry.

Also, the last Lutheran church I saw had a crucifix statue with kneeling pads encircling the whole of it.
But I digress- it's only in Lutheran churches that you would see such a thing; a few Calvinist churches will have statues on their walls.

Rumor has it that the priests in the Vatican kissed the feet of one statue so many times, over the centuries, that the foot had to be replaced......you be the judge.

Did they kiss it with hammers? Because if a half centimeter of enamel can be lines on a road for 20 years through heat, cold, rain, and snow, I'm pretty sure you could kiss a stone for virtually all of history without making a dent.

 

[Rajni]

That may be, however all written text has a direct message that was intended to be preceived from reading it.

That too!

 

[amariselle]

To God, like I said before, intercessory prayers. Asking them to speak on our behalf since they are closer to HIS altar.

Forgive me...

Why do we need them to speak on our behalf? Where is it written that they even can or that anyone intercedes for us before God but Christ Jesus?

 

[amariselle]

We don't know it "because of scripture", but then the Church came first.
Orthodox Christians are not bound to "scripture only".
Forgive me...

Actually, the OT came before "the Church", also, no practice of the early Church would have contradicted Scripture, which is clearly the inspired word of God.

 

[Phil 1:21]

To God, like I said before, intercessory prayers. Asking them to speak on our behalf since they are closer to HIS altar.

Forgive me...

Mark 15:38 "The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom."

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Why do we need them to speak on our behalf? Where is it written that they even can or that anyone intercedes for us before God but Christ Jesus?

It doesn't have to be written. Not for us. It is Holy Tradition and existed before the NT was written.
That's the Orthodox position.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Actually, the OT came before "the Church", also, no practice of the early Church would have contradicted Scripture, which is clearly the inspired word of God.

It's not contradictory.

Forgive me...

 

[amariselle]

It doesn't have to be written. Not for us. It is Holy Tradition and existed before the NT was written.
That's the Orthodox position.

Forgive me...

Fair enough. My concern is that it contradicts Scripture. As such I cannot accept it, no matter how old it is.

God bless.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Fair enough. My concern is that it contradicts Scripture. As such I cannot accept it, no matter how old it is.

God bless.

Fair enough... it's your interpretation of scripture that it contradicts.

Forgive me...

 

[amariselle]

It's not contradictory.

Forgive me...

How so? The Bible says Christ alone is our Mediator and High Priest, that He alone intercedes for us before the Father.

We also know from Scripture that even the angels, who are above mankind, will not accept devotion and praise from man, because such things belong to God alone.

 

[amariselle]

Fair enough... it's your interpretation of scripture that it contradicts.

Forgive me...

It's not "interpretation" at all. How else would you understand the verses that say we have one Mediator, that Christ is the one Who "ever liveth" to make intercession for us? That He is our High Priest?

I see the accusation that it's personal interpretation a lot. It's not. I simply believe what Scripture says. I'm "interpreting" nothing in these verses.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

How so? The Bible says Christ alone is our Mediator and High Priest, that He alone intercedes for us before the Father.

We also know from Scripture that even the angels, who are above mankind, will not accept devotion and praise from man, because such things belong to God alone.

It doesn't contradict any catholic interpretation of scripture.

Hows that.

Forgive me...

 

[amariselle]

It doesn't contradict any catholic interpretation of scripture.

Hows that.

Forgive me...

Much of Catholic "tradition" is not found in Scripture at all. It is, rather, "Sacred Tradition" and consists of practices and doctrines added throughout the centuries by the Catholic Church.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Much of Catholic "tradition" is not found in Scripture at all. It is, rather, "Sacred Tradition" and consists of practices and doctrines added throughout the centuries by the Catholic Church.

I agree that the RC added many things. We are not RC.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

 

[amariselle]

I agree that the RC added many things. We are not RC.

Forgive me...

I know. I was responding to your comment.