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Drop your theological errors off here...

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by OrthodoxyUSA, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    ??? belief in a 1000 year reign on earth, ???

    How do you interpret the scripture...

    1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20

    ???
     
  2. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It means eternally. It says so [whose kingdom shall have no end] in the creed for just that purpose.:liturgy:

    Look up chiliasm and the Nicene council.

    Forgive me...
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. - Revelation 22:19

    The prophecy does not say eternally... It say a thousand years.
     
  4. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Just passing along to you that at one time the entire Church agreed that the large number meant eternally.

    Forgive me...
     
  5. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

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    Church before Word still I see
     
  6. S.O.J.I.A.

    S.O.J.I.A. Dynamic UNO

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    NO™
     
  7. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
    6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
    7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
    9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
    10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
    11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
    12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
    13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. - Mark 7
     
  8. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Are all metaphores that are taken literally going to be treated the same?

    Forgive me...
     
  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    A thousand years is not a metaphor. John Bunyan was a great writer in metaphors/parables and he explains the use of them in his "The Barren Fig Tree" work (http://www.chapellib.../bun-barren.pdf):

    6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
    7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
    8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
    9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. - Luke 13:6-9

    In parables there are two things to be taken notice of, and to be inquired into of them that read.

    First, The metaphors made use of.
    Second, The doctrine or mysteries couched under such metaphors.

    The metaphors in this parable are,
    1. A certain man;
    2. A vineyard;
    3. A fig-tree, barren or fruitless;
    4. A dresser;
    5. Three years;
    6. Digging and dunging, &c.

    The doctrine, or mystery, couched under these words is to show us what is like to become of a fruitless or formal professor. For,

    1. By the man in the parable is meant God the Father (Luke 15:11).
    2. By the vineyard, his church (Isa 5:7).
    3. By the fig-tree, a professor.
    4. By the dresser, the Lord Jesus.
    5. By the fig-tree’s barrenness, the professor’s fruitlessness.
    6. By the three years, the patience of God that for a time he extendeth to barren professors.
    7. This calling to the dresser of the vineyard to cut it down, is to show the outcries of justice against fruitless professors.
    8. The dresser’s interceding is to show how the Lord Jesus steps in, and takes hold of the head of his Father’s axe, to stop, or at least to defer, the present execution of a barren fig-tree.
    9. The dresser’s desire to try to make the fig-tree fruitful, is to show you how unwilling he is that even a barren fig-tree should yet be barren, and perish.
    10. His digging about it, and dunging of it, is to show his willingness to apply gospel helps to this barren professor, if haply he may be fruitful.
    11. The supposition that the fig-tree may yet continue fruitless, is to show, that when Christ Jesus hath done all, there are some professors will abide barren and fruitless.
    12. The determination upon this supposition, at last to cut it down, is a certain prediction of such professor’s unavoidable and eternal damnation.

    But to take this parable into pieces, and to discourse more particularly, though with all brevity, upon all the parts thereof. ‘A certain MAN had a fig-tree planted in his vineyard.’ The MAN, I told you, is to present us with God the Father; by which similitude he is often set out in the New Testament. Observe then, that it is no new thing, if you find in God’s church barren fig-trees, fruitless professors; even as here you see is a tree, a fruitless tree, a fruitless fig-tree in the vineyard.

    Fruit is not so easily brought forth as a profession is got into; it is easy for a man to clothe himself with a fair show in the flesh, to word it, and say, Be thou warmed and filled with the best. It is no hard thing to do these with other things; but to be fruitful, to bring forth fruit to God, this doth not every tree, no not every fig-tree that stands in the vineyard of God. Those words also, ‘Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh away,’ assert the same thing (John 15:2). There are branches in Christ, in Christ’s body mystical, which is his church, his vineyard, that bear not fruit, wherefore the hand of God is to take them away: I looked for grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes, that is, no fruit at all that was acceptable with God (Isa 5:4). Again, ‘Israel is an empty vine, he bringeth forth fruit unto himself,’ none to God; he is without fruit to God (Hosea 10:1). All these, with many more, show us the truth of the observation, and that God’s church may be cumbered with fruitless fig-trees, with barren professors.
     
  10. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Don't know him, I do know what the councils taught though.

    In the simplest of terms, many Protestants believe it to be literal but catholics say its metaphoric.

    Forgive me...
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  11. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, Ive never heard this before.

    Forgive me...
     
  12. frienden thalord

    frienden thalord Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy Jimmy that has got to be the ugliest troll . Its scaring the children. It just looks evil .
     
  13. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    That is because the Orthodox is an early congregation. There were other congregations that would arise after Orthodoxy.
     
  14. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hey rockytopva

    Revelation has a woman being chased by a dragon.

    Metaphore?

    Forgive me...
     
  15. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thats no reason for me to have never heard it before.
    I was once Protestant too.
    Forgive me...
     
  16. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Yes... Metaphor...

    The Woman - Either the church or Israel
    The dragon - The devil
     
  17. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    You were saved as a Protestant
    You are saved as an Orthodox

    Same Christianity... Different congregation.

    And if you were ever to become Catholic you would be saved as a Catholic. Your salvation is not in your congregation, but faith in the Lord Jesus.
     
  18. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think you are on to something. Some people might twist your arguments in wrong directions, but I find some are refreshing and defensible with further context and elaboration. Some of them like salvation moments are vague and not easily defended. While you might not worship an icon as an idol, some might argue spending much money on icons is vain.

    I would have to disagree with praying to saints. In Acts 3, Peter and John were on their way to the temple. There was a crippled man who was born lame resting along the way. Peter told him he was healed in the name of Jesus. The healed man began to jump with great joy and praised God. Peter saw the crowd and advised them that it was God, the one who sent Jesus, who had healed the lame man.

    When Paul and Barnabas were in Lystra (Acts 14), Paul told a lame man to get on his feet. The lame man jumped up and started to walk. The crowd saw him walking and were saying Paul and Barnabas were gods and tried to worship them. Paul rebuked them. He stated he and Barnabas were humans. It was the living God who had made heaven and earth and provides for them. Even then, the crowd started offering sacrifices to them.

    Since God knows when a sparrow falls from the sky and how many hairs are on your head, you should pray to God for guidance. Neither Peter nor Paul could take credit for the miracles God was doing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  19. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Salvation vs. Theosis...
    We dont claim salvation until we get there.
    Forgive me...
     
  20. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    8 The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. - Romans 10
     
  21. Dirk1540

    Dirk1540 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Let me get this straight OP...you're telling me to ease up on the Jesus praying, and reserve some prayers for Mary?? Based on which scriptures?

    I seem to recall the wise men worshipping Jesus and not Mary.
     
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