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What prayers would it be that the saints in Revelation are receiving as incense?
Forgive me...
I guess we don't truly understand in fullness exactly how it is in Heaven. The more important question, to start with, is are those prayers that they are recieving prayed to them, or to God?
I find a pretrib rapture to be far more troubling.
Waiting for God to come and take us away from trouble?
Forgive me...
Pre-trib rapture is complete nonsense, and holds no weight in traditional Protestant churches anymore than it does in your church.
So we have familiar ground there
Glad to hear it... Baptists are still doing it, at least my mother is...
I find it troubling because people who go looking for it and trouble comes and then they are asking "where is God"? Then they lose faith because they were told they would not have to experience these things.
Forgive me...
From the Orthodox point of view they are intercessory prayers. They intercede with Christ for us because they are closer to him.
Forgive me...
I understand what you are saying. However, if we read the scriptures in prayer.... should there be this many discrepancies?Drop your theological errors off here... keeping in mind that one man's "theological error" is another man's "absolute truth".
Where do these elders get these prayers of the saints?
Rev 5:8
"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."
Why do they have them?
Forgive me...
These two, and Enoch, never really died. I believe Elijah was John the baptist. I believe Moses and Enoch will be the two witnesses or prophets in the tribulation..... more research needs to be done on my part though so I'm not in any case ready to defend that on even the simplest level.Did Moses and Elijah stand before Christ in the Transfiguration event?
More evidence that saints are with Christ and not dead.
Forgive me...
Obviously God ordains how things "work" in Heaven, which, in many ways is far above and beyond our understanding at this point. For me the question still remains, are those prayers prayed to the "elders" themselves, or to God?
These two, and Enoch, never really died. I believe Elijah was John the baptist. I believe Moses and Enoch will be the two witnesses or prophets in the tribulation..... more research needs to be done on my part though so I'm not in any case ready to defend that on even the simplest level.
We don't know it "because of scripture", but then the Church came first.Okay. So how do we know this from Scripture?
There may be statues in many protestant churches but you will never see a knelling pad in front of it, never see anyone kneel of bow to it or kiss it. There are statues all over the place... but when you kneel and pray in front of it....it becomes worship.According to nothing- nobody has anything compelling to support the notion. There are statues in the oldest Protestant churches even- your idea came much later as Protestantism began to develop it's own errors.
I'm of the persuasion that we don't read the scriptures -- the scriptures read us.I understand what you are saying. However, if we read the scriptures in prayer.... should there be this many discrepancies?
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