Drive for Atheists?

[Knarf188]

If your purpose in life is to do deeds that go against the society so be it, but keep in mind there are many people in blue uniforms with guns, whose purpose is to redirect yours. In this case, perhaps you should redirect your purpose .

Haha yea... there are... but what about People who are persecuted by the government... who are shot for being Christians...should they redirect their purpose? I am just curious , do you feel as though our purpose should only be in the government which presides over you? Can you elaborate? Thanx...
In Christ,
Frank

 

[vajradhara]

Hey Everyone, I am kind of knew to this philosophy thing and stuff, so don't flame me too much =)...
But I was just curious, what do you aethiests(not labeling =) in these forums believe the purpose of life is? Do you believe in doing good? Or we just are born to improve mankind then die? I was always curious...
Take Kare and God Bless Everyone =)...
In Christ,
Frank

Namaste frank,

thanks for the post.

i am not the typcial atheist, though i'm considered one by most Christians so i'll give it a go as well.

life doesn't require a purpose.. life is. we can choose to do with this what we'd like. it's my belief that my purpose here is to practice the path of liberation for all sentient beings. no more, no less.

yes, i believe in doing good and refraining from harm of any sentient being.

we may be born to improve mankind and then die, but that is not what i happen to believe. my beliefs in this matter are reflective of my religious tradition as such, they may differ from others

not too get to technical here, but from our view, there is no coming and no going. the appearances that are in front of us are like magical illusions possessing no intrisic or unchaning essence, thus as it is said in the Heart Sutra... "form is emptiness and emptiness is form."

 

[Vylo]

Huh, people who are shot for being christians? Haven't heard anything about this, though im sure it has happened, just as any group has people within it killed for being a part of it. Your purpose is something you can determine for yourself, or you can use a preset purpose that was constructed by previous individuals/societies, or you can sorta mix and match them.

Should the christians above redirect their purpose? It would depend on the exact nature of their current purpose, but in most cases I would advise it. Of course sometimes part of one's purpose is to not deviate from it. I was illustrating in the previous example that if your purpose conflicts with society, it may result in some very undesirable things, so it may be ill advised, but it is up to you. I am not saying the government is necessarily right for enforcing certain restrictions upon purpose, but it is an innate function of governments and societies to do so.

 

[Knarf188]

Mostly because I would feel guilty if I didn't. On a rational level, I feel that we would all be better off in a just world, so really I am helping myself in addition to helping others. Also, if I did not treat others with respect and compassion, how could I expect them to treat me that way?


Why not? This is the only life I have. I want to make the most of it.

Hey Hi Nathan =),
Guilty of what? why would you feel guilty? If there is no purpose to life... there should be no guilt because it is all random... actually you said you live to enjoy life... so is enjoying life the purpose of life?? or am i off in the scope of what we are talking about? Where does 'just' come from... if it is all relative to the society then what defines 'just'... just curious =)... God Bless
In CHrist,
Frank

 

[Knarf188]

Namaste frank,

thanks for the post.

i am not the typcial atheist, though i'm considered one by most Christians so i'll give it a go as well.

life doesn't require a purpose.. life is. we can choose to do with this what we'd like. it's my belief that my purpose here is to practice the path of liberation for all sentient beings. no more, no less.

yes, i believe in doing good and refraining from harm of any sentient being.

we may be born to improve mankind and then die, but that is not what i happen to believe. my beliefs in this matter are reflective of my religious tradition as such, they may differ from others

not too get to technical here, but from our view, there is no coming and no going. the appearances that are in front of us are like magical illusions possessing no intrisic or unchaning essence, thus as it is said in the Heart Sutra... "form is emptiness and emptiness is form."

Hmm you are getting to deep for me =)... but I will try... to reply...
You say your purpose in life is to liberate people ... liberate from what? oppression, famine, etc?

Why do you believe in doing good? Is this part of your belief? What do you define as 'good'?

Form is emptiness and emptiness is form? Could you elaborate a little more.. thanx man take kare and God Bless...
In Christ,
Frank

 

[Knarf188]

Huh, people who are shot for being christians? Haven't heard anything about this, though im sure it has happened, just as any group has people within it killed for being a part of it. Your purpose is something you can determine for yourself, or you can use a preset purpose that was constructed by previous individuals/societies, or you can sorta mix and match them.

Should the christians above redirect their purpose? It would depend on the exact nature of their current purpose, but in most cases I would advise it. Of course sometimes part of one's purpose is to not deviate from it. I was illustrating in the previous example that if your purpose conflicts with society, it may result in some very undesirable things, so it may be ill advised, but it is up to you. I am not saying the government is necessarily right for enforcing certain restrictions upon purpose, but it is an innate function of governments and societies to do so.

Hey Vylo,
Yes it is averaged this year that 2 Million Christians will die for what they believe in... It happens alot in Asia and Africa...even kids are being shot by Popular Religions...
So certain restrictions upon purpose; such as killing protestors, starving families, restricting any type of economic growth, are an 'innate functions of governments and societies', whether right or wrong? Should there not be a line drawn?
In CHrist,
Frank

 

[Dyrwen]

Standard reply:

The point, as most atheists would suppose, is to "live". You are alive now, so why not experience it's differences and wonders? Even if life sucks, it'd beat the alternative, never existing. Unless you'd rather not live at all, then death is a nice thought. I don't really fear death anymore now that I have nothing to look forward to in death. Nothing to fear, just a stopping of life.

The point, it seems, to life is to live for what life is, no matter what it is. To live for death and the chance at an afterlife is no life at all. I'd say, if there is an afterlife, what's the point of life? Most would say to prepare to decide what realm of the afterlife you're going into, but what of the many religions with just one realm? Where you just go to a heaven, or perhaps just go to a Hell. There are many religions with only one afterlife alternative. Why would you live at all if you knew you'd be alive forever in the afterlife? Quite frankly, I appreciate my life much more knowing this is the only chance I have at it.

People spend their whole life seeking a point to living, but that is something you must find on your own while living life. Most stick to the point that Life is about the journey, not the destination. The end of life is not important, as no one knows how it will end, so just live life for what is always has been. Life.. not death.

To answer your questions, I live to live and do whatever I feel I should do, good or bad for now, not later.

 

[DrunkenWrestler]

Wrestler, what is your purpose to life?

Right now, I have no idea.

but yes life is too glorify Christ...

I'm sure your just stating an opinion and not a fact... I hope.

I don't really fear death anymore now that I have nothing to look forward to in death. Nothing to fear, just a stopping of life.

I'm sure if death was comming soon, such as an aligator chasing you, you'd fight hard to deny the arrival of death.

 

[Knarf188]

Right now, I have no idea.


I'm sure your just stating an opinion and not a fact... I hope.


I'm sure if death was comming soon, such as an aligator chasing you, you'd fight hard to deny the arrival of death.

Haha at least you are honest Drunken...
and I thought u were asking a question in your reply, that is where all that preaching came from =)... to you it might be an opinion but to me it is a fact ... take kare and God Bless...
In Christ,
Frank

 

[Knarf188]

Standard reply:

The point, as most atheists would suppose, is to "live". You are alive now, so why not experience it's differences and wonders? Even if life sucks, it'd beat the alternative, never existing. Unless you'd rather not live at all, then death is a nice thought. I don't really fear death anymore now that I have nothing to look forward to in death. Nothing to fear, just a stopping of life.

The point, it seems, to life is to live for what life is, no matter what it is. To live for death and the chance at an afterlife is no life at all. I'd say, if there is an afterlife, what's the point of life? Most would say to prepare to decide what realm of the afterlife you're going into, but what of the many religions with just one realm? Where you just go to a heaven, or perhaps just go to a Hell. There are many religions with only one afterlife alternative. Why would you live at all if you knew you'd be alive forever in the afterlife? Quite frankly, I appreciate my life much more knowing this is the only chance I have at it.

People spend their whole life seeking a point to living, but that is something you must find on your own while living life. Most stick to the point that Life is about the journey, not the destination. The end of life is not important, as no one knows how it will end, so just live life for what is always has been. Life.. not death.

To answer your questions, I live to live and do whatever I feel I should do, good or bad for now, not later.

Hey Hi,
In response to your questions... as far as realms I believe there are just two heaven and hell, according to Christianity... Christianity, unlike other religions, has a savior... I truely believe Christianity is unique... when Jesus came, he came to serve... not to be praised or worshipped... he did this because he loves us... We continue to live this life, even knowing of the afterlife, because we are obeying our father... out of Love... for other people who are not saved... and who do not have eternal joy and hope...
I live my life day by day, enjoying the moments , enjoying this breath and the next and the next... waiting to meet others in which I can spread the Gospel... So I do not neglect the journey in sake of the destination... our journey is the means to the destination...
What do you define as good or bad... wait it doesnt matter because you do both ... we all do =)... well I hope and pray that you find more reason to live in life... Take kare and God Bless...
In Christ,
Frank

 

[Dyrwen]

Hey Hi,
In response to your questions... as far as realms I believe there are just two heaven and hell, according to Christianity... Christianity, unlike other religions, has a savior...

Many have a savior, check out Mithraism or any religion that uses "finding their god" as an alternative to a bad place. Same concept: Savior from bad stuff.

I truely believe Christianity is unique... when Jesus came, he came to serve... not to be praised or worshipped... he did this because he loves us... We continue to live this life, even knowing of the afterlife, because we are obeying our father... out of Love... for other people who are not saved... and who do not have eternal joy and hope...

Pardon me for saying that makes little to no sense to me as an atheist, but your tendency to live for others in a pity manner is acceptable at least, albeit mildly insulting.

I live my life day by day, enjoying the moments , enjoying this breath and the next and the next... waiting to meet others in which I can spread the Gospel... So I do not neglect the journey in sake of the destination... our journey is the means to the destination...

Yet ultimately you live merely for the destination and choose your journey to find the proper outcome of the destination. So by choosing to live a life for the outcome of the end of the journey, you live for that, ie. death.

What do you define as good or bad... wait it doesnt matter because you do both ... we all do =)... well I hope and pray that you find more reason to live in life... Take kare and God Bless...
In Christ,
Frank

I must take some apparent offense to your attempt to clasify me as in need of further reason when all you have shown is faith. But I'll let that slide to answer with the definitions you for some reason feel have no point. Yes we do both, but what we define as each is our main difference.

Good is what I see to be good for me and bad as what I see to be bad. Wheras you have universal good or bad, I have a subjective. For me to kill thousands of people and enjoy it, would be apparently good even though it would be bad for others.

Your attempt to find a point in your life is only through pity. You claim you live for those who won't have eternal joy, but you only live for them in life; in time they will die and be in Hell and all your joy will be in vain. You will have lived for their sakes without validity to do so. Sure you live to spread the gospel and save them, but until your god shows a reason to be believed in other than an eternal pain (to which isn't bad nor good in my case), neither I nor anyone else will find a point to believing in it.

My point to live remains as is, to live until I find I no longer need to. Your point will continue to hold more faith than reason. I would hope that you might find a better reason to live for, but it's not for me to hope nor want anything for you. My purpose is to find point in my own life, what you do with your own is none of my business nor my care.

Dyrwen

 

[vajradhara]

Hmm you are getting to deep for me =)... but I will try... to reply...
You say your purpose in life is to liberate people ... liberate from what? oppression, famine, etc?

Why do you believe in doing good? Is this part of your belief? What do you define as 'good'?

Form is emptiness and emptiness is form? Could you elaborate a little more.. thanx man take kare and God Bless...
In Christ,
Frank

Namaste Frank,

we try to liberate them from suffering, plain and simple. in our view, liberation is attained by recognizing some basic facts about reality, such as the non-existence of a permentant and unchainging essence in any phenomena.

we believe that the reason people are in bondage has nothing to do with sin or anything of this nature. it has to do with the acquired conditioning and the ego, mainly. eh... if you'd like to go into depth about Buddhist beliefs, i believe there are some posts on this forum to get you started....

we believe in doing good because we believe in karma. simply put, karma can be summed up with the phrase "what goes around comes around" and "you reap what you sow."

to couch it in Christian terms... we believe that good works are the way to go.

so.. we do good works for various reasons.. one of which is if we are compassionate and concerned for others, they will be for us. now.. i should state that this is very superficial stuff here.. and a detailed answer to your query is beyond the scope of this post.

"good" is relative to us. what may be good for a cat isn't necessarily good for a mouse. in fact, all imputations of the mind, 'good', 'bad', 'hot', 'cold', 'tall' and 'short' are relative. a 5' pygmy is tall... but not compared to a Watusi.

form is emptiness and emptiness is form is a verse from the Heart Sutra, which is quite popular in the Mahayana schools of Buddhist thought.

hmm... explain it a bit, eh? let me try this to see if it helps.

matter is energy and energy is matter, correct? so it isn't accurate to say that matter is somehow seperate from energy, though they appear that way to us. equally, it's not accurate to say that energy isn't matter, it's simply vibrating at much higher frequencies. they are one and the same though they appear in different forms.

this is the same as emptiness and form. what we are indicating in this statement is that form, or phenomena, have no intrinsic, unchanging essece thus they are empty of permemant characteristics. this "emptiness" isn't any different, however, than the form in which it is percieved... and vice versa.

this is actually quite a sophisticated place in Buddhist Abidharma (metaphysics) and i'm afraid that i can only answer your questions in the most cursory manner.

 

[Knarf188]

Many have a savior, check out Mithraism or any religion that uses "finding their god" as an alternative to a bad place. Same concept: Savior from bad stuff.
Pardon me for saying that makes little to no sense to me as an atheist, but your tendency to live for others in a pity manner is acceptable at least, albeit mildly insulting.

Yet ultimately you live merely for the destination and choose your journey to find the proper outcome of the destination. So by choosing to live a life for the outcome of the end of the journey, you live for that, ie. death.
I must take some apparent offense to your attempt to clasify me as in need of further reason when all you have shown is faith. But I'll let that slide to answer with the definitions you for some reason feel have no point. Yes we do both, but what we define as each is our main difference.

Good is what I see to be good for me and bad as what I see to be bad. Wheras you have universal good or bad, I have a subjective. For me to kill thousands of people and enjoy it, would be apparently good even though it would be bad for others.

Your attempt to find a point in your life is only through pity. You claim you live for those who won't have eternal joy, but you only live for them in life; in time they will die and be in Hell and all your joy will be in vain. You will have lived for their sakes without validity to do so. Sure you live to spread the gospel and save them, but until your god shows a reason to be believed in other than an eternal pain (to which isn't bad nor good in my case), neither I nor anyone else will find a point to believing in it.

My point to live remains as is, to live until I find I no longer need to. Your point will continue to hold more faith than reason. I would hope that you might find a better reason to live for, but it's not for me to hope nor want anything for you. My purpose is to find point in my own life, what you do with your own is none of my business nor my care.

Dyrwen

OUCCHHH!!! Haha Bro I did not mean to offend you with my 'pity' attempts or whatever... Cheer up... you sound very hostile/negative ...

From all of the other religions I have heard Jesus is the only one who has ever come down on the cross to die for our sins... no other God has ever done... that is what I meant to be unique...

Good is what you see to be good for you? Do you mean this with everyone? If someone deemed it good to steal all your stuff and then shoot you in the toe is that 'good'?

Bro my joy will not be in vain... for while I tell others about Jesus, some choose to accept it others don't... so it really isn't in vain if I am accomplishing my 'purpose' in life... Besides the 'eternal pain' there is much more in how God shows himself... eg. PRAYER... recently my Pap had cancer, he is not a Christian, he had kimo twice... both times it got into his blood stream and he was hospitalized for days on end... after a couple weeks he went into the hospital for the doctors to decide on what course of action to do next... and can you believe it, it was NO LONGER THERE, the doctors were baffled... there were many many people praying about this... and the Lord came through...

And you said your still searching for a purpose... but it seems that you already have purpose ... to do your 'good and bad'...

It seems as though you are just living life for things that will satisfy you... I have been through it man... I have done drugs, sex, alcohol... everything... they only provided temporarily... you still crave it after you have done it... nothing on this world can satisfy you or I... my cousin is going through the same thing... he is not a Christian... but he knows that everything he does does not satisfy him... the 'eternal joy' comes from a Loving God... A God who loves you so much that he came on this Earth to die for you bro... not because he had too... but because he wanted too... just like when a soldier lays down his life for his fellow brother in arms... it's a split second decision... when that gernade roles into the fox hole and he jumps on it... he does it for you...

And while you don't seem to kare about me... I still kare for you bro... Take kare and God Bless... I did not mean to offend ya..
In CHrist,
Frank

 

[Knarf188]

Namaste Frank,

we try to liberate them from suffering, plain and simple. in our view, liberation is attained by recognizing some basic facts about reality, such as the non-existence of a permentant and unchainging essence in any phenomena.

we believe that the reason people are in bondage has nothing to do with sin or anything of this nature. it has to do with the acquired conditioning and the ego, mainly. eh... if you'd like to go into depth about Buddhist beliefs, i believe there are some posts on this forum to get you started....

we believe in doing good because we believe in karma. simply put, karma can be summed up with the phrase "what goes around comes around" and "you reap what you sow."

to couch it in Christian terms... we believe that good works are the way to go.

so.. we do good works for various reasons.. one of which is if we are compassionate and concerned for others, they will be for us. now.. i should state that this is very superficial stuff here.. and a detailed answer to your query is beyond the scope of this post.

"good" is relative to us. what may be good for a cat isn't necessarily good for a mouse. in fact, all imputations of the mind, 'good', 'bad', 'hot', 'cold', 'tall' and 'short' are relative. a 5' pygmy is tall... but not compared to a Watusi.

form is emptiness and emptiness is form is a verse from the Heart Sutra, which is quite popular in the Mahayana schools of Buddhist thought.

hmm... explain it a bit, eh? let me try this to see if it helps.

matter is energy and energy is matter, correct? so it isn't accurate to say that matter is somehow seperate from energy, though they appear that way to us. equally, it's not accurate to say that energy isn't matter, it's simply vibrating at much higher frequencies. they are one and the same though they appear in different forms.

this is the same as emptiness and form. what we are indicating in this statement is that form, or phenomena, have no intrinsic, unchanging essece thus they are empty of permemant characteristics. this "emptiness" isn't any different, however, than the form in which it is percieved... and vice versa.

this is actually quite a sophisticated place in Buddhist Abidharma (metaphysics) and i'm afraid that i can only answer your questions in the most cursory manner.

Hey man...
Thankyou for replying so quickly and bringing it down to my lower uneducated level , haha...
So you believe in works... but how do you attain heaven? Do your good works have to outweigh your bad deeds/or do you have to be perfect (both which seem impossible to me =)...
May I ask why you turned away from Christianity... for I believe I read somewhere that you did turn away from it...
Matter is energy and Energy is Matter... are you not just saying the same thing... its like saying H20 is water and water is H2O... maybe that is what you were trying to get across haha...
In Christ,
Frank

 

[DrunkenWrestler]

Why does life need a purpose?

 

[revolutio]

What do they have to live for?

From what you describe I would say they don't have very much to live for. Of course happiness can be found in the oddest of places. Through strife come our greatest pleasures also.

In the end though everyone has to find their own purpose.

 

[Dyrwen]

From all of the other religions I have heard Jesus is the only one who has ever come down on the cross to die for our sins... no other God has ever done... that is what I meant to be unique...

Ahem:
Source.
Crucified Sorts
Tammuz of Mesopotamia 1160 BC.
Iao of Nepal 622 BC.
Hesus of the Celtic Druids 834 BC.
Quezalcoatl of Mexico 587 BC.
More are at the link.

Good is what you see to be good for you? Do you mean this with everyone? If someone deemed it good to steal all your stuff and then shoot you in the toe is that 'good'?

If they see fit, yes. Although that doesn't mean I won't see their "good-to-them" actions as "bad-to-me" and reciprocate in my own little way.

It seems as though you are just living life for things that will satisfy you... I have been through it man... I have done drugs, sex, alcohol... everything... they only provided temporarily... you still crave it after you have done it... nothing on this world can satisfy you or I... my cousin is going through the same thing... he is not a Christian... but he knows that everything he does does not satisfy him... the 'eternal joy' comes from a Loving God... A God who loves you so much that he came on this Earth to die for you bro... not because he had too... but because he wanted too... just like when a soldier lays down his life for his fellow brother in arms... it's a split second decision... when that gernade roles into the fox hole and he jumps on it... he does it for you...

I do no drugs, have no sex, and happen to not accept a god. Somehow, that doesn't seem like enough for some people. Would it help to know I'm also a pacifist whom wishes free healthcare on all and doesn't wish to have any relationships either? Who knows. Your god may do whatever it wishes, until it is shown to do anything in any factual manner, I'll continue to not need a reason to go along with your deital creations.

Your loving god is nothing to the love one can feel in life in any manner of fashion, and until your god stops giving comfort to those that fear death and hope to those who know life is all you get, I'll follow what I've found most reasonable. You do the same.

And while you don't seem to kare about me... I still kare for you bro... Take kare and God Bless... I did not mean to offend ya..
In CHrist,
Frank

Care all you like, I merely wish to answer the inquiries asked of me or of those I am similar to. No offense taken but I happen to state my honest opinion without holding back, in truth.
Dyrwen

 

[Knarf188]

Why does life need a purpose?

I guess I could ask, why doesn't it?
Life seems to be defined by purpose... like nature... if one thing did not do it's purpose it would all collapse on itself... like the extinction of a certain predator would make an overabundance of its prey and yadda yadda yadda...
In Christ,
Frank

 

[ObbiQuiet]

Why does life need a purpose?

I'm reminded of Agent Smith... "Because without purpose, we wouldn't exist."

I disagree - but the character's perspective is still interesting. I loved Agent Smith's last Monolouge.

 

[Vylo]

Hey Vylo,
Yes it is averaged this year that 2 Million Christians will die for what they believe in... It happens alot in Asia and Africa...even kids are being shot by Popular Religions...
So certain restrictions upon purpose; such as killing protestors, starving families, restricting any type of economic growth, are an 'innate functions of governments and societies', whether right or wrong? Should there not be a line drawn?
In CHrist,
Frank

Are we talking about morality or purpose? Purpose is purpose, whether good or evil (which are socially constructed concepts to beghin with. You can chose to have good or evil purpose.