Drinking question

[MrsJoy]

Yes, but apparently there is some controversy about just how much alcoholic content there really was.

sorry, but no.
as has been repeated a million times only the very rich could afford to have "juice"

 

[MrsJoy]

This article by an Assemblies of God minister seems to say that our current day understanding of wine is not the same as it was in Biblical times.



If wine in the Bible was alcoholic, as our wine today is, then I guess I agree with you.
However, it is wise to remember that alcohol is a habit-forming substance.
We wouldn't want to be lured into alcoholism.
It is wise to be careful.

i grew up being spoon fed this garbage, and that is exactly what it is.
it is not a deeper meaning at all for it completly disregards historical facts.

 

[MrsJoy]

The reason that the corinthians didn`t eat meat was due to the fact that the OT told them not to, because it had been sacrificed to idols.

the corinthians were not Hebrew, they did not follow levitical law.
cute though.

 

[LadyGarnetRose]

And here is the capper...

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:


Pretty simple. You want a sip of wine and are not addicted or convicted, go for it, just don't drink the whole bottle.

 

[Sojourner<><]

The reason that the corinthians didn`t eat meat was due to the fact that the OT told them not to, because it had been sacrificed to idols. It was unclean for them to eat that meat. Paul was concerned not because it might lead weaker believers into idolatry, but because they still believed that it was wrong for them to eat meat sacrificed to idols as it was in the OT, and because of that belief if they ate meat because they saw somone who was a mature believer doing it....and had not reconciled it wihin their own conciense.....then they would have violated their conscience, and so sinned.


I am not talking about the nonsensicle arguments! And finally if you were doing something which was causing a weaker believer to stumble, would you continue to do it?

"Woe to him by whom the stumbling block comes"

Mark

i will not be able to reply till monday so my appologies at the wait you will have if you reply

James' ruling in Acts chapter 15 basically instructs us to abstain from these meats. Just thought I would throw that in there....

 

[DiscipleDave]

It is not a sin to drink alcohol, but if you get drunk it is sinful, if you drink in excess, and you know full well when that is, then it becomes sinful, if you drink alcohol and it offends another, then that also is sinful.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[LadyGarnetRose]

It is not a sin to drink alcohol, but if you get drunk it is sinful, if you drink in excess, and you know full well when that is, then it becomes sinful, if you drink alcohol and it offends another, then that also is sinful.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

The rebutal to that is, your offense offends me...

It's a circle...

You can choose not to be offended by what another does that God does not consider sin.

 

[DiscipleDave]

The rebutal to that is, your offense offends me...

It's a circle...

You can choose not to be offended by what another does that God does not consider sin.

Rom:14:20: For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21: It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

1Cor:10:23: All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Even though all things are lawful for me, it is not expedient that i do all things which might offend others, even though they are not sin unto me.

i can eat meat and it is no sin for me to do so, but if i eat meat around a brother or sister that is a vegetarian, and they are offended by me eating meat, then it becomes sin for me to continue to do so, knowing that it is upsetting another.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[LadyGarnetRose]

Rom:14:20: For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21: It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

1Cor:10:23: All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Even though all things are lawful for me, it is not expedient that i do all things which might offend others, even though they are not sin unto me.

i can eat meat and it is no sin for me to do so, but if i eat meat around a brother or sister that is a vegetarian, and they are offended by me eating meat, then it becomes sin for me to continue to do so, knowing that it is upsetting another.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

And again,

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

And again,

The offense offends me...and we go in circles.

 

[DiscipleDave]

And again,

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

And again,

The offense offends me...and we go in circles.

Sorry but i do not understand what your point is, please help my misunderstanding.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[MrsJoy]

And again,

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

And again,

The offense offends me...and we go in circles.

What a self-centered point of view:
notice, our freedom is NOT FOR US but that we might LIVE AS SERVANTS!
1 Peter 2:16
Live as free men... live as servants of God
Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. ... serve one another in love.

1 Corinthians 10:24
Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

Philippians 2:4
Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Philippians 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

 

[HisKid1973]

My 2 cents..I never drank, have no interest in drinking..I was saddened when two of my 3 children got interested in alcohol then go the third one involved in the party scene..These are kids who loved the Lord in their younger years...Honestly , I have been around divorce .death and family heartache from alcohol and have not seen any positive benefits from alcohol consumption..You can pray along with me for my kids to return to their first love..pax..Kim

 

[BereanTodd]

My 2 cents..I never drank, have no interest in drinking..I was saddened when two of my 3 children got interested in alcohol then go the third one involved in the party scene..These are kids who loved the Lord in their younger years...Honestly , I have been around divorce .death and family heartache from alcohol and have not seen any positive benefits from alcohol consumption..You can pray along with me for my kids to return to their first love..pax..Kim

I am sorry for your heartache, and I will pray for your kids.

I would like to just point out though that I have known Christians who left their first love and got consumed with their careers and climbing the corporate ladder. I've known others who left their first love and got a divorce and started chassing affairs and various women. I've known people who have left their first love for a variety of things.

Yes, alchohol can be abused, but so can food, careers, money, possesions, and anything else that we allow to come between us and God. Alchohol is no sin when used responsibly, the main problem is we don't train or model for our kids to use it responsibly.

Those who are decrying the "weaker brother" arguments ... how many of you have been to an 'all-you-can-eat' restaurant or a church pot-luck either with or around fat people? Glutony is sin. How many of you have done business with someone consumed by greed? Greed is a sin. How many of you have driven a nice new car, or shown off a nice new house to someone consumed by chasing possesions?

On and on we could go.

 

[Jipsah]

The bible is not very clear about if it is a sin or not to drink beer or wine.

Our Lord both made and drank wine. If He did it, it ain't a sin. Case closed.

 

[Carey]

The bible is not very clear about if it is a sin or not to drink beer or wine. There are several verses to support both sides of the fence- some believe it's a sin to have fermented wine, other's believe it's ok so long as you arnt drunk.
I want to know for sure because i gave up drinking totally (not even nyquil) when i really started to live for god. i feel like this is a sign to myself that makes me different than before because i drank alot. but then after a few years i felt like i was doing it in vein since the lord loved me anyways and i was saved because he said so, not because i earned it.
I want to know specifically what the bible says about moderate drinking. not getting drunk, but one or two beers here or there.

( NOTICE Isaiah makes clear it is fermented wine calling it aged)

Proverbs 31:

4 "It is not for kings, O Lemuel—
not for kings to drink wine,
not for rulers to crave beer,
5 lest they drink and forget what the law decrees,
and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.
6 Give beer to those who are perishing,
wine to those who are in anguish; 7 let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.

1 Timothy 5 : 23Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses

Isaiah 22 : 13 But see, there is joy and revelry,
slaughtering of cattle and killing of sheep,
eating of meat and drinking of wine!
"Let us eat and drink," you say,
"for tomorrow we die!"

Isaiah 25 : 6 On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines

John 2 :
Jesus Changes Water to Wine

1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine
7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim

8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, 9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now

AND FINALLY ON THIS MATTER

Romans 14 : 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

 

[MrsJoy]

Those who are decrying the "weaker brother" arguments ... how many of you have been to an 'all-you-can-eat' restaurant or a church pot-luck either with or around fat people? Glutony is sin. How many of you have done business with someone consumed by greed? Greed is a sin. How many of you have driven a nice new car, or shown off a nice new house to someone consumed by chasing possesions?

On and on we could go.

the fact remains that scripture is there, and there for a purpose.
God did not give us our freedom in order that we could flaunt it in others faces.
nowhere are we told to declare our freedom over the needs of our brothers and sisters in the Lord.

 

[Plutonius]

I am sorry for your heartache, and I will pray for your kids.

I would like to just point out though that I have known Christians who left their first love and got consumed with their careers and climbing the corporate ladder. I've known others who left their first love and got a divorce and started chassing affairs and various women. I've known people who have left their first love for a variety of things.

Yes, alchohol can be abused, but so can food, careers, money, possesions, and anything else that we allow to come between us and God. Alchohol is no sin when used responsibly, the main problem is we don't train or model for our kids to use it responsibly.

Those who are decrying the "weaker brother" arguments ... how many of you have been to an 'all-you-can-eat' restaurant or a church pot-luck either with or around fat people? Glutony is sin. How many of you have done business with someone consumed by greed? Greed is a sin. How many of you have driven a nice new car, or shown off a nice new house to someone consumed by chasing possesions?

On and on we could go.

Consumption of Alchohol certainly is not a sin. It may be quite easy to immediately point fingers at this chemical but glutony certainly is a sin as BereanTodd pointed out. We may not feel as bad when we gorge ourselves with food as we do if we get drunk, but the sin is still there. By itself Alchohol is not a bad thing whatsoever. But like all sins humans transform it into a evil drink, of course if used irresponsibility. But is not anything else bad if we use it irresponsibility?

The source of the problem is not Alchohol, but irresponsibility!

 

[BereanTodd]

the fact remains that scripture is there, and there for a purpose.
God did not give us our freedom in order that we could flaunt it in others faces.
nowhere are we told to declare our freedom over the needs of our brothers and sisters in the Lord.

I am not denying that but you have not yet answered the question. Have you ever been to an all-you-can-eat restaurant or a church pot-luck where there were any fat people?

I am not saying that the standard you set doesn't exist, I am asking are you consistent in applying it in the manner that you expect in relation to alchohol?

 

[PETE_]

I am not denying that but you have not yet answered the question. Have you ever been to an all-you-can-eat restaurant or a church pot-luck where there were any fat people?

I am not saying that the standard you set doesn't exist, I am asking are you consistent in applying it in the manner that you expect in relation to alchohol?

you can add many things to that list list that others find sinful

women wearing pants, jewelry, or braiding their hair

people whose jobs require them to work on Sunday, or even some that require Sabbath to be obseverved on Saturday

To apply to one and not all kinda invalidates the arguement

 

[LadyGarnetRose]

What a self-centered point of view:
notice, our freedom is NOT FOR US but that we might LIVE AS SERVANTS!
1 Peter 2:16
Live as free men... live as servants of God
Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. ... serve one another in love.

1 Corinthians 10:24
Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

Philippians 2:4
Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Philippians 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

Exactly the point I'm trying to make.

When one screams "YOU ARE SINNER!" because one decides to have a glass of wine in their own home, it is conceit, it is legalism, and it is their own pride puffed up as those who prayed in full few as loud as could be with widened tefflin, tzitzi that drag the ground, and over exaggerated davening to show how righteous they are, and the rest who do not so are not.

The sin of wine, is when one gets drunk.

To say that it is a sin for anybody to consume any liquor, well that's the height of legalism.

the fact remains that scripture is there, and there for a purpose.
God did not give us our freedom in order that we could flaunt it in others faces.
nowhere are we told to declare our freedom over the needs of our brothers and sisters in the Lord.

It's not a freedom, it's a rule, to drink, add some wine for your stomachs sake, drink well of the tithe, turning water to wine after all the wine was gone and clearly the revlers were already revling at the wedding.

While it is a sin to make a brother/sister stumble. I'm not advocating drinking infront of a alcoholic.

What I am trying to say is, to hollar and scream that everybody must stop drinking because some folks find it offensive to their delicate sensiblities and we are going to burn for it...

Well that leads us to Todd's post...and if you've ever gone with somebody who is overweight and has problems not knowing when to stop eating to a buffet.

you can mant things to that list list that others find sinful

women wearing pants, jewelry, or braiding their hair

people whose jobs require them to work on Sunday, or even some that require Sabbath to be obseverved on Saturday

To apply to one and not all kinda invalidates the arguement

Apply to one what? Nowhere in the bible does it say women cannot wear pants. It says not to dress like one of the opposite sex, I don't see my grandmother in that pink pant suit she used to love as "dressing like a man". The flowers and the ruffle kind of gave it away that it wasn't a Man's suit...I guess the pink did too (men didn't wear pink back then).

Jewelry ahhh see that is a misapplication, Jewelry is fine, as long as it is not pagan in nature.

God gave us the Sabbath...so, bring that one up with Him.