DOL cannot include the Tribulation

[chalkstc]

Of course it is.

Look in that same chapter verse 10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Now isnt that the same thing Jesus just said would happen when the GT starts? why yes it is.

and how is the devil going to do that if he isnt here??

take heed frankie lest you be decieved(into thinking its something its not)

"Don't you worry about a thing"

Hey sounds like a lyric for a song!!

 

[chalkstc]

Hey Lovey,

I was wrong when i sadi you were all alone in your errant timing of the AOD and the GT..................you have son flower in your camp.

But I have a question?

Dan 11:45​

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.​

12:1​

​

​

​

​

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.​

KJV


Matt 24:21​

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

​

KJV

Are these two time frames the same? And how long do they last?

 

[LovedofHim]

SF,



Rev 2:22

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.​

KJV​

Now John penned the Revelation in about 96AD................about 26 years after your supposed AOD happening in which you say the GT began. Now if this church was already in it, then why does Jesus say he would cast her into it except she repent?​

Must woman's intuition......I mean interpretation
And I must confess that it's more fun playing Eschatology with you girls that with the guys ​

Peace and out,
Frankie​

John said he was in tribulation in Revelation 1 and being imprisoned on Patmos certainly qualifies.

9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The great tribulation has been going on since the desolation of Israel and will last until the time of the end when it is cut short for the sake of the elect or else no one would survive.

You need to read Joel 2. It shows the time of Jacob's trouble, the event that causes Michael to stand up.

Michael standing up is found in Revelation 12. Read what's going on with the devil, the church, and Israel in Revelation 12.

My internet connection is super slow so I can't post scripture as usual.

 

[chalkstc]

Lovey,

Jesus also said "In the world we would have tribulation". But the "tribulation the great" was a time like no other nor would be hereafter. So yuou and SF are spinning in a no spin zone imo.

But you did not answer my question..............is Dan 12: and Mat 24:21 the same timeframe or different?

Here are the two texts again......................

Matt 24:21​

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

KJV


Dan 11:45​

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.​

12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.​

​

KJV

If they are not the same junture in your opinion, then when are they?

Thx,
Frankie

 

[LovedofHim]

Lovey,

Jesus also said "In the world we would have tribulation". But the "tribulation the great" was a time like no other nor would be hereafter. So yuou and SF are spinning in a no spin zone imo.

But you did not answer my question..............is Dan 12: and Mat 24:21 the same timeframe or different?

Here are the two texts again......................



Matt 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

KJV​

Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.​

KJV​

If they are not the same junture in your opinion, then when are they?​

Thx,
Frankie​

This is all the same moment in time:​

Daniel 12​

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


Joel 2​

1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. (ARMIES)​

31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come. 32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Rev 12: 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.​

13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. (ARMIES!) 16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.​

Matt 24: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. ​

The great tribulation that began with the desolation of Israel is cut short because of the massive invasion of Israel. The devil is preparing to devour the church and Israel, so God cuts the tribulation short and the wrath begins on the Day of the Lord.​

 

[chalkstc]

Lovey,

The great tribulation that began with the desolation of

Israel is cut short because of the massive invasion of Israel. The devil is preparing to devour the church and Israel, so God cuts the tribulation short and the wrath begins on the Day of the Lord.

You still didn't quite answer my question. I asked if one text confirmed the other. You're still spinning, ya think?

one more time
Frankie​

 

[LovedofHim]

Lovey,

The great tribulation that began with the desolation of ​

You still didn't quite answer my question. I asked if one text confirmed the other. You're still spinning, ya think?​

one more time ​

Frankie​

No, there's no spin. Those scriptures tell you the timing. All of those scriptures are describing the same moment in time.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. What exactly is the question?

 

[chalkstc]

Lovey,

I think we both are sincere in allowing scripture to substanciate our view. But we must also admit that we both can’t be right. So let’s establish our individual facts.

You say:

The AOD of Mat 24:15 was fulfilled by Rome in 70 AD. Therefore the GT has been going on since Jerusalem’s Temple was destroyed.

Your length of the GT is 1941 years and counting.

Paul’s MOS does not fulfill this AOD. But you do not say who he is or when he comes on the scene?


I say:

The AOD is still future to our day and initiates the GT which is housed within the pages of the Revelation of 1260 days etc.

The wrath of the Lamb is poured out after the seals, trumps and bowls.

The SC ensues, the bride is gathered and the beast and false prophet are cast into the LOF after Armageddon.

I quoted two texts:

Matt 24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

Dan 11:45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
12:1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV

To which you said they were the same period of time.

So let’s continue in the Dan 12 text and see when the AOD actually happens………..

First off the first verse says Mike stands up during this time of trouble to which you believe happened in 70 AD. But………………………….

Verse 2 continues…………………………


Dan 12:2 And many (the multitudes) of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Above we have the resurrection of just and unjust, thus fulfilling this text…….

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Now this certainly didn’t happen post 70 AD nor has it happened yet.

4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Dan is told to seal this book. He wrote his narrative over 500 years BC. He asks when the end of what he just wrote would come to pass……………..

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

And he is told time, times, and a half……….. time = one year / times = two years and half = ½ year. Total of 3 ½ years or 1260 days. Did anything significanly happen 3 ½ years after your supposed timing of 70 AD for the AOD? Nada!

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Dan still does not understand. The angel tells him the words are sealed till the time of the end and that the wise will understand at that end time. This is not a 70 AD scenario.

Now here is the clincher………………..

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

That 30 days past the original 1260, possibly the time for judging the wicked.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Now we have an additional 45 days….possibly the rewarding of the saints and their commision to reign during the mill…………”one has ten cities, one five etc.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
KJV

He is now told to rest and stand in his lot at the end of the days. This will happen to him here……………………….

1 Cor 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
KJV

As you should see, the AOD is at the time of the end and lasts for 1290 days, not in 70 AD as you presently believe.

Please don’t quote anymore Joel texts. You have done that enough. Deal with what you have told me. And the Mat 24 and Dan 12 portions.

Thx,
Frankie
PS this is still a no spin zone

 

[ivebeenshown]

Oh wow, that is hard to even look at.

 

[chalkstc]

Oh wow, that is hard to even look at.

Yeah, my browser messed up, but I edited it......................

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

THE DAY OF THE LORD
Cannot Include the Tribulation

You are correct. Actually, the DOL happens just about simultaniously with the coming of Christ in the clouds which is proven by scripture. In Rev 1:7 ~ Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
The only time his side was pierced was on the cross. Now if there was no resurrection of those who have done good to eternal life, and those who have done evil to eternal damnation, how could they see his coming unless they were resurrected? They couldn't. The DOL happens immediately right after the resurrection of the just and unjust. Also, here is a clue to to the kind of day that it is..EZE 30:3 ~For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a CLOUDY day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
It will be for them, but not for us...Matt 24:30 ~And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the CLOUDS of heaven with power and great glory. The DOL is a one day event which is 24 hours. Even Jesus said, are there not 12 hours in the day?..John 11:9. With the night being another 12 hours, that is a 24 hour period. He may just have it wrapped up in the 12 (DAY of the Lord).

 

[LovedofHim]

[Lovey,

I think we both are sincere in allowing scripture to substanciate our view. But we must also admit that we both can’t be right. So let’s establish our individual facts.

You say:

The AOD of Mat 24:15 was fulfilled by Rome in 70 AD. Therefore the GT has been going on since Jerusalem’s Temple was destroyed.

Your length of the GT is 1941 years and counting.

Paul’s MOS does not fulfill this AOD. But you do not say who he is or when he comes on the scene?

Yes, the abomination of desolation was the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem, destroying various synogogues, killing the Jewish people, setting up "their ensigns as signs", and destroying and setting alight the Temple, leaving not one stone upon another. The people were either killed or sold into slavery until the time of the end.

So far, yes the great tribulation has lasted nearly 2000 years.

The man of sin is the antichrist. He arises after the great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect, just as Jesus said in Matt 24 and Daniel 11 shows.

I say:

The AOD is still future to our day and initiates the GT which is housed within the pages of the Revelation of 1260 days etc.

The wrath of the Lamb is poured out after the seals, trumps and bowls.

Revelation 6 shows you when the "great Day of His wrath" begins (when the sun and moon darken stars fall which is what Jesus said happens after the great tribulation is cut short) and the time of wrath on that day includes the trumpets, the antichrist, and the bowls.

First off the first verse says Mike stands up during this time of trouble to which you believe happened in 70 AD. But………………………….

Verse 2 continuse…………………………


Dan 12:2 And many (the multitudes) of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Above we have the resurrection of just and unjust, thus fulfilling this text…….

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

The entire description from the angel is a 3500 year time period, ending with the description of the GWT judgment where good and evil are resurrected and judged.

It began during the Medo-Persian empire, continued through the Greek empire, showed the Romans desolation of the temple and said the war, captivity, etc continues until the time of the end. Then it shows the antichrist's actions. Then Rev 12 begins

Now this certainly didn’t happen post 70 AD not has it happened yet.

4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Dan is told to seal this book. He wrote his narrative over 500 years BC. He asks when the end of what he just wrote would come to pass……………..

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

And he is told time, times, and a half……….. time = one year / times = two years and half = ½ year. Total of 3 ½ years or 1260 days. Did anything significanly happen 3 ½ years after your supposed timing of 70 AD for the AOD? Nada!

Daniel asked how long until the end of these wonders. Well, "these wonders" started in the middle of the Medo-Persian empire and ended at the GWT judgment. That's a 3500 year time period....a TIME (millennium), TIMES (TIMES OF THE GENTILES - Great tribulation), and 1/2 a TIME (medes to Christ).

Now here is the clincher………………..

11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The question you need to ask is from the time of the AofD to WHAT is 1290 days. It is obviously referring to the destruction of the Temple.

That 30 days past the original 1260, possibly the time for judging the wicked.

12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Now we have an additional 45 days….possibly the rewarding of the saints and their commision to reign during the mill…………”one has ten cities, one five etc.

1290 + 1335 = 2625 which is 3 1/2 months beyond 7 years (2520) in Jewish calendar. They are not describing the same time frame but two different time frames.

13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
KJV

He is now told to rest and stand in his lot at the end of the days. This will happen to him here……………………….

1 Cor 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
KJV

As you should see, the AOD is at the time of the end and lasts for 1290 days, not in 70 AD as you presently believe.

Please don’t quote anymore Joel texts. You have done that enough. Deal with what you have told me. And the Mat 24 and Dan 12 portions.

Thx,
Frankie
PS this is still a no spin zone

Or, is Daniel standing in his lot HERE:

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

The Judgment of the Dead

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[chalkstc]

okay Lovey,

I hoped but it just is not to be. Did you have your glasses or contacts on or off when you read my post? Surely you do not have 20 - 20 vision.

The theme is so clear that the aOD is yet future and thus your almost 2000 yr GT is errant.

Enough,....we hqve no more to say to each other but I will leave you with this text and it goes for both of us.................

James 3:1-2​

3 ​

​

​

​

​

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.​

2 ​

​

​

​

​

For in many things we offend all. ​

​

KJV

Your brother in Christ,
Frankie

 

[LovedofHim]

okay Lovey,

I hoped but it just is not to be. Did you have your glasses or contacts on or off when you read my post? Surely you do not have 20 - 20 vision.

The theme is so clear that the aOD is yet future and thus your almost 2000 yr GT is errant.

Enough,....we hqve no more to say to each other but I will leave you with this text and it goes for both of us.................

James 3:1-2​

3

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.​

2 ​

For in many things we offend all. ​

KJV​

Your brother in Christ,
Frankie​

I'm surprised at your lack of patience.​

Look, when does the entire story begin:​

(This is the angel who is talking with Daniel speaking)​

Daniel 10:21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Daniel 11:​

1Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
...​

When does it end:​

Daniel 12:2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. ​

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4But thou, O Daniel,shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.​

That is a 3500 year time span. The GWT judgment occurs at the end of the millennium, according to Rev 20.​

Are we on the same page?​

 

[son_flower]

okay Lovey,

I hoped but it just is not to be. Did you have your glasses or contacts on or off when you read my post? Surely you do not have 20 - 20 vision.

The theme is so clear that the aOD is yet future and thus your almost 2000 yr GT is errant.

Enough,....we hqve no more to say to each other but I will leave you with this text and it goes for both of us.................

James 3:1-2​

3 ​

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.​

2 ​

For in many things we offend all. ​

KJV

Your brother in Christ,
Frankie

LOL Frankie is that all you have to say?

No proof of any AOD future? No proof that Lovey is lying?
Nope none.

You are still doubting what is already written and trading it in for what is in your crystal ball.

This is why you cannot tell us what the AOD really is.

Tell us then using scripture when and what this future AOD is??
You cant because you are prognosticating.

Your future event is impossible. LOOK around you. The widowed Mystery Babylon is just that. Forsaken.
Divorced, forsaken by God, yet she is happily drunk with your love for her.

 

[chalkstc]

SF,

No proof of any AOD future? No proof that Lovey is lying?
Nope none.

How dare you make that statement? I'll tell you how.................you missed my previous post on Dan 12 and Mat 24. Go back a few pages silly wabbit.

No spin zone!

 

[son_flower]

Lovey,

I think we both are sincere in allowing scripture to substanciate our view. But we must also admit that we both can’t be right. So let’s establish our individual facts.

You say:

The AOD of Mat 24:15 was fulfilled by Rome in 70 AD. Therefore the GT has been going on since Jerusalem’s Temple was destroyed.

Your length of the GT is 1941 years and counting.

Paul’s MOS does not fulfill this AOD. But you do not say who he is or when he comes on the scene?


I say:

The AOD is still future to our day and initiates the GT which is housed within the pages of the Revelation of 1260 days etc.

The wrath of the Lamb is poured out after the seals, trumps and bowls.

The SC ensues, the bride is gathered and the beast and false prophet are cast into the LOF after Armageddon.

I quoted two texts:

Matt 24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

Dan 11:45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
12:1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV

To which you said they were the same period of time.

So let’s continue in the Dan 12 text and see when the AOD actually happens………..

First off the first verse says Mike stands up during this time of trouble to which you believe happened in 70 AD. But………………………….

Verse 2 continues…………………………


Dan 12:2 And many (the multitudes) of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Above we have the resurrection of just and unjust, thus fulfilling this text…….

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Now this certainly didn’t happen post 70 AD nor has it happened yet.

4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Dan is told to seal this book. He wrote his narrative over 500 years BC. He asks when the end of what he just wrote would come to pass……………..

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

And he is told time, times, and a half……….. time = one year / times = two years and half = ½ year. Total of 3 ½ years or 1260 days. Did anything significanly happen 3 ½ years after your supposed timing of 70 AD for the AOD? Nada!

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Dan still does not understand. The angel tells him the words are sealed till the time of the end and that the wise will understand at that end time. This is not a 70 AD scenario.

Now here is the clincher………………..

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

That 30 days past the original 1260, possibly the time for judging the wicked.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Now we have an additional 45 days….possibly the rewarding of the saints and their commision to reign during the mill…………”one has ten cities, one five etc.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
KJV


25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
KJV

As you should see, the AOD is at the time of the end and lasts for 1290 days, not in 70 AD as you presently believe.

Please don’t quote anymore Joel texts. You have done that enough. Deal with what you have told me. And the Mat 24 and Dan 12 portions.

Thx,
Frankie
PS this is still a no spin zone

Yes Frankie, my dear brother, i dare. You said no spinning. I read your whole post. Twice now and can't find where you proved WHAT and WHEN the AOD is. There is already a ton of scripture telling us the AOD maeks Jersusalem desolate which it did, and begins horrible tribulation like never before which it did and causes a whole flood of war, famine, death, pestilence you name it, it HAS and IS happening.
We even have history reports to show us solid evidence of events.

And he is told time, times, and a half……….. time = one year / times = two years and half = ½ year. Total of 3 ½ years or 1260 days. Did anything significanly happen 3 ½ years after your supposed timing of 70 AD for the AOD? Nada!

the Romans did not achieve complete victory until the fall of Masada in 73AD where it was reported by Josephus there had been a mass suicide. Titus built his fortress there 3 and half years after the sacrificial temple was burnt to ashes. Flattened. The Masada fortress still stands today.

Now we have an additional 45 days….possibly the rewarding of the saints and their commision to reign during the mill…………”one has ten cities, one five etc.

Possibly? Is that all you have? Not a good thing Frankie.

He is now told to rest and stand in his lot at the end of the days. This will happen to him here……………………….

1 Cor 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Yes he is resting. He is asleep and his order was after Christ when they arose from their graves. He will stand in his lot AT THE END. LovedByhim showed you: Notice right before the end what happens. Knowledge shall be increased. sound familiar??

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4But thou, O Daniel,shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. ​

As you should see, the AOD is at the time of the end and lasts for 1290 days, not in 70 AD as you presently believe.

Please don’t quote anymore Joel texts. You have done that enough. Deal with what you have told me. And the Mat 24 and Dan 12 portions.

As we should see? We see what is written and what the history books show us took place. Exactly as Christ said.
So what do YOU see Frankie in your mind ahead for us?
Your possibilities only exists in your mind.
Ancient Israel is forsaken. Desolate. They fornicated with Babylon, killed their Messiah, and still reject Him. They are surrounded by the most blood thirsty enemy ever to arise out of this earth.
Do you think God in His indignation has forgotten?

 

[chalkstc]

SF,

You gals are two peas in a pod. I refuse to continue with either of you when Dan 12 disproves your false doctrine. Knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me what you believe,

The problem is one does not seek for truth when they believe they already have it. Duh!

You ignore the Early Church fathers, any Hebrew/Grk scholars as if they have not the Spirit. Though they are not inspired, They have been given as gift to the body of Christ. I personally don't believe what I beleive because of what they say, but do agree with them as confirmation to what I gleaned from the text.

Just remember, we will be judged on what we teach others. We both can't be right, so let God judge.

By the way, According to your dogma, Mike already has stood up during the AOD/GT and many of the dead from just and unjust groups have been raised. What a joke. But gee, you must have scriptural backup for this, right?

Nah, don't tell me........say it to yourself so I don't think any less of your error as I do now,

Sincerly,
Frankie

 

[LovedofHim]

SF,

You gals are two peas in a pod. I refuse to continue with either of you when Dan 12 disproves your false doctrine. Knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me what you believe,

The problem is one does not seek for truth when they believe they already have it. Duh!

You ignore the Early Church fathers, any Hebrew/Grk scholars as if they have not the Spirit. Though they are not inspired, They have been given as gift to the body of Christ. I personally don't believe what I beleive because of what they say, but do agree with them as confirmation to what I gleaned from the text.

Just remember, we will be judged on what we teach others. We both can't be right, so let God judge.

By the way, According to your dogma, Mike already has stood up during the AOD/GT and many of the dead from just and unjust groups have been raised. What a joke. But gee, you must have scriptural backup for this, right?

Nah, don't tell me........say it to yourself so I don't think any less of your error as I do now,

Sincerly,
Frankie

I'm always surprised when people are offended by the Word of God, especially when they learn that it doesn't say what they think it says.

Michael stands up at the time of the end, just as Daniel 11, 12 and Revelation 12 (and even Joel 2) teaches you.

Abomination of desolation - 70 AD

31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Great tribulation - 70AD to the time of the end
33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

ANTICHRIST
36And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
40And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Daniel 12

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Rev 12:

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 

[son_flower]

SF,

You gals are two peas in a pod. I refuse to continue with either of you when Dan 12 disproves your false doctrine. Knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me what you believe,

The problem is one does not seek for truth when they believe they already have it. Duh!

You ignore the Early Church fathers, any Hebrew/Grk scholars as if they have not the Spirit. Though they are not inspired, They have been given as gift to the body of Christ. I personally don't believe what I beleive because of what they say, but do agree with them as confirmation to what I gleaned from the text.

Just remember, we will be judged on what we teach others. We both can't be right, so let God judge.

By the way, According to your dogma, Mike already has stood up during the AOD/GT and many of the dead from just and unjust groups have been raised. What a joke. But gee, you must have scriptural backup for this, right?

Nah, don't tell me........say it to yourself so I don't think any less of your error as I do now,

Sincerly,
Frankie

Darn Frankie i am about to get dizzy from your own spin. I did not even say that 'dogma' you just wrote.

Who said Michael stands up at the AOD??

I do not ignore the Early Church Fathers neither do i ignore what Jesus told His own disciples sitting right in front of Him when He told THEM they would SEE the AOD and not one stone left upon another.

To this very day it remains surrounded and occupied by war forces. Does hurling dung on the tombstones at the Mount of Olives sound like peace and harmony to you? They are surrounded by war forces still.

Daniel spoke the truth and it happened.

The problem is one does not seek for truth when they believe they already have it. Duh!

The scripture is there to be able to find and know the truth and not seek endlessly into the future. That is why we have them. It will go beyond a lifetime to know them all but the more we seek the more we FIND.
The truth is not 'out there' somewhere.
We have historical records of actual events that actually happened in exactly the timeframe and exactly the way Jesus and Daniel said.
He did not tell His disciples twice that they would SEE something and lie.

You failed to prove your future events they can only be 'possibilities' of a completely new desolation of what already is desolated. So then call me a pea in a pod.
Its a pod of truth you cannot disprove.