DOL cannot include the Tribulation

[chalkstc]

THE DAY OF THE LORD
Cannot Include the Tribulation

Following are nine biblical reasons why the Day of the Lord cannot include the tribulation, as pre‑tribbers claim, but must follow it.

1. Joel 2:31/Acts 2:20 and Matthew 24:29/Mark 13:24 place the same cosmic signs between the end of the tribulation and the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The two cannot overlap, otherwise these verses could not be true.

2. In Isaiah two, the very first time the Day of the Lord is mentioned in the Bible, Isaiah wrote that the Lord alone will be exalted in that day. This is an exclusive statement. Since, during the last half of the tribulation, the Antichrist will be worshipped as God, the two cannot overlap [cf. Isaiah 2:11,12,17 & Rev. 13:12].

The Antichrist cannot be worshipped in the Day of the Lord, since Isaiah says the Lord ALONE will be exalted. Also, all idols will be abolished during the Day of the Lord. Yet, during the tribulation, the image of the Beast, and other idols will be worshipped. [cf. Isaiah 2:18 & Rev. 9:20,21 & Rev. 13:15].

3. Zechariah 14:7 indicates that the Day of the Lord is a 24 hour day. The Hebrew text says: "that day shall be one." [See also: Isa. 10:17]

4. Three times the phrase "the Day of the LORD cometh" is used in the Old Testament. [Isaiah 13:9, Joel 2:1, Zech. 14:1]. In each case the text immediately begins to describe the battle of Armageddon. The word "cometh" is the Hebrew word "bow" [Strong's #935], a verb meaning to come or arrive. It implies the beginning of the Day of the Lord. In all three cases, the arrival of the Day of the Lord brings the battle of Armageddon.

In the New Testament, twice it is said the Day of the Lord "cometh" as a theif in the night (1 Thess. 5:1,2 & 2 Peter 3:10). In both cases the immediate destruction of the wicked occurs. Paul says "sudden destruction" overtakes the wicked, and Peter says the land will be devoured by fire along with the scoffers.

5. Joel 3:9‑17 describes the gathering of the armies of the nations around Jerusalem for the battle of Armageddon, the cosmic signs, and the coming of the Lord. After the armies are gathered, but before the cosmic signs, Joel wrote that the Day of the Lord is "near."

The Hebrew word means "at hand," "imminent," or "next in sequence" [Strong's #7138]. The Day of the Lord must begin after the armies of the nations are gathered for the battle, which occurs at the end of the tribulation, according to Rev. 16:13‑16.

6. According to Revelation 16, The armies of the nations are gathered at the end of the tribulation for "the battle of the great day of God Almighty. Therefore, the "Day of God" is clearly after the tribulation when the battle occurs. Peter shows us that the terms "Day of God" and "Day of the Lord" are synonymous, by using them interchangably when repeating himself [2 Peter 3:10,12]. (This is the only other occurrence of the phrase "Day of God" in the Bible.) Jesus also says His Coming is a thief in Rev 16:15 just before Armageddon.

7. 2 Thessalonians 2:1‑3 NASB/NIV says the "Day of the Christ" (same as the Day of the Lord) will not come until after the "falling away," (apostasy) and the revelation of the "man of sin." Verse 4 indicates how he will be revealed, by defiling the Temple at the mid‑point of the tribulation, [see: Matt. 24:15]. Therefore, the Day of the Lord cannot begin before the mid‑point of the tribulation.



8. According to Mal. 4:5, Elijah the prophet will come before the Day of the Lord comes. Most agree that Elijah is one of the two witnesses in Revelation. Therefore, the Day of the Lord cannot begin until after the two witnesses come.

9 There are many synonyms for the "Day of the Lord" in the New Testament. We know that on the Day of the Lord, the "Lord" who comes in power "with all His saints" in Zech. 14:1‑6 is Jesus Christ [cf. Zech. 14:1‑6, Acts 1:9‑12, 1 Thess. 3:13].

We also know that there are various combinations of Jesus' name in the New Testament, including; Jesus, Christ, Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus Christ, and Lord. Since the simplest explaination is almost always correct, it is very likely that all of the following phrases are speaking of the same day.

Day of Christ [Phil. 1:10], Day of Jesus Christ [Phil. 1:6], Day of the Lord Jesus Christ [1 Cor. 1:8], Day of the Lord Jesus [1 Cor. 5:5], Day of the Lord [1 Thess. 5:2], Day of God [2 Pet. 3:12], Day of God Almighty [Rev. 16:14]. [See also referrences to "the Great Day:" Zeph. 1:14, Jude 1:6, Rev. 6:17, Rev. 16:14.]

Frankie

 

[NightHawkeye]

THE DAY OF THE LORD
Cannot Include the Tribulation

Following are nine biblical reasons why the Day of the Lord cannot include the tribulation ...

...

Frankie

Nicely thought out and articulated OP.


.

 

[LovedofHim]

Yeah, Jesus said the great tribulation began after the abomination of desolation and will be cut short before the antichrist arises.

Therefore, you are correct, the great tribulation is NOT a part of the Day of the Lord.


Matt 24:15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

Besides that, Jesus also said that AFTER the tribulation is cut short, the sun and moon darken and the stars fall which is what happens at the 6th seal.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And when you look at the 6th seal, it tells you the Day of His Wrath is about to begin. And the antichrist shows up during the 5th trumpet of the 7th seal. So, once again Jesus is proven correct that the antichrist arises after the great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. It also proves that the antichrist has nothing to do with the great tribulation and EVERYTHING to do with the Day of the Lord.


Rev 6:12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Revelation 9


1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

 

[chalkstc]

Same old mantra......................

Yeah, Jesus said the great tribulation began after the abomination of desolation and will be cut short before the antichrist arises.

But what you have wrong is that the AOD is yet to come!

It is one thing to agree upon a truth and another thing to have your timing off by almost 2000 years.

 

[LovedofHim]

Same old mantra......................



But what you have wrong is that the AOD is yet to come!

It is one thing to agree upon a truth and another thing to have your timing off by almost 2000 years.

Jesus said it, NOT me. I'm quoting HIM.

Either HE is wrong or YOU are not understanding what the abomination of desolation OF ISRAEL was.


Matt 24:15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

 

[chalkstc]

Jesus said it, NOT me. I'm quoting HIM.

Yup, but He did not say the AOD would happen at the demise of the Temple. He already said that there would not be left one stone upon another. That = 70AD. But the AOD was a new subject and transcends the Temple's destruction.

Lk's account gives the coming destruction, but never says it is the AOD, just literal desolation of property.

I have proved by the Maccabees that the AOD was a literal abomination by the prophaning of the altar by false worship by something placed on the altar that wasn't the Lord's acceptable sacrifice.

The Romans did nothing of the kind. They even set fire to melt the gold encased within the stones.

To make something desolate, their must be a "desolator". Who was it? Titus or Vespacian? Nada!

Note also.....there is no destruction of the Rev 11 Temple mentioned. So that means another Temple will be built without God's dwelling within it. Yet the two witnesses are sent to it. Why? Unless the falling away was being preached within it's walls.

Dan 11:45​

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.​

​

KJV

When was this done?

I think we are done here!

 

[LovedofHim]

Yup, but He did say it would happen at the demise of the Temple. He already said that there would not be left one stone upon another. That = 70AD. But the AOD was a new subject and transcends the Temple's destruction.

Lk's account gives the coming destruction, but never says it is the AOD, just literal desolation of property.

I have proved by the Maccabees that the AOD was a literal abomination by the prohaning of the altar by false worship by something placed on the altar that wasn't the Lord's acceptable sacrifice.

The Romans did nothing of the kind. They even set fire to melt the gold encased within the stones.

To make something desolate, their must be a "desolator". Who was it? Titus or Vespacian? Nada!

Note also.....there is no destruction of the Rev 11 Temple mentioned. So that means another Temple will be built without God's dwelling within it. Yet the two witnesses are sent to it. Why? Unless the falling away was being preached within it's walls.

I think we are done here!

What Jesus told the disciples about the abomination of desolation answered their question about the demise of the Temple.

Matthew 24


1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?


Tell me, Chalkstc, does Daniel say that the abomination of desolation occurs at the time of the end or is the end "yet for a time appointed" after the AofD takes place ? It says the tribulation that follows the AofD lasts EVEN to the time of the end, for it is YET for a time appointed, proving Jesus' words correct.


Daniel 11: 31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

What comes after the great tribulation that began with the abomination of desolation described above is cut short:


36And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
40And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.





The word of God, and Jesus Himself, speak Truth. There's no fighting it because it will always agree. AofD does not equal antichrist. It never did.

 

[chalkstc]

What Jesus told the disciples about the abomination of desolation answered their question about the demise of the Temple

.

Says you, not the scriptural meaning of the AOD.

What does "standing in the Holy place where IT ought not"
mean to you, the destruction of the building? How foolish is that?

1 Mac gave the definition the of the AOD, but you reject it. Why? Because you just can't let go of your groove and too proud to admit you have it wrong.

We just disagree on this theme.

 

[Jpark]

Concerning #3, the NASB renders it as:

For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.

It couldn't possibly be a 24 hour day or it wouldn't make sense. All the things that unfold on the day couldn't possibly be within 24 hours.

Here's what I found in the cross reference and the cross references of the cross reference:

Jeremiah 30:7 'Alas! for that day is great,
There is none like it;
And it is the time of Jacob's distress,
But he will be saved from it.

Joel 2:11 The LORD utters His voice before His army;
Surely His camp is very great,
For strong is he who carries out His word
The day of the LORD is indeed great and very awesome,
And who can endure it?

Mark 13:19 "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.

And my opinion is that the day of the Lord will include the great Tribulation.

 

[LovedofHim]

.

Says you, not the scriptural meaning of the AOD.

What does "standing in the Holy place where IT ought not"
mean to you, the destruction of the building? How foolish is that?

1 Mac gave the definition the of the AOD, but you reject it. Why? Because you just can't let go of your groove and too proud to admit you have it wrong.

We just disagree on this theme.

No, the "abomination of desolation as spoken of in Daniel stands in the holy place" is the Roman armies standing in Israel who "set up their ensigns for signs" and destroyed the Temple, desolated Israel until the time of the end.

Matt 24:15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Here's Daniel:
Daniel 11: 31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Luke understood it.

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

I don't know why you keep referring to 1 Maccabees which is speaking of the abomination of desolation committed by Antichus Epiphanes nearly 200 years before Jesus was even born. Jesus was NOT speaking of Antiochus Epiphanes' abomination of desolation but an abomination of desolation that was FUTURE from Jesus' perspective in roughly 27AD.

Jesus said the abomination of desolation as spoken of in DANIEL. BOTH Daniel and Luke PROVE that the abomination of desolation OF ISRAEL was the desolation of Israel by the Roman armies and the subsequent great tribulation lasts UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END.

Then that great tribulation is cut short, for the sake of the elect, and THEN the antichrist arises.

The antichrist has NOTHING to do with the abomination of desolation or the great tribulation that is cut short before the antichrist arises, as proven by Jesus in Matt 24, Luke 21 and Daniel 11.

 

[chalkstc]

It couldn't possibly be a 24 hour day or it wouldn't make sense. All the things that unfold on the day couldn't possibly be within 24 hours.

Zech 14:6​

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:​

7​

​

​

​

​

But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord , not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

And my opinion is that the day of the Lord will include the great Tribulation.

The DOL is the time of His wrath. The Trib is the day od satan's and his minion's wrath.

The wrath of the Son is poured out after the cosmic signs which is after the trib of those days. See Rev 6:17
​

​

KJV

 

[chalkstc]

Lovey,

Disagree. The Roman ensigns were not placed upon the altar as the AOD will and needs to be.

END

 

[LovedofHim]

Zech 14:6​

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:​

7

But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord , not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

The DOL is the time of His wrath. The Trib is the day od satan's and his minion's wrath.​

The wrath of the Son is poured out after the cosmic signs which is after the trib of those days. See Rev 6:17​

KJV
​

If you believe Jesus' words, spoken from His own lips, obviously not:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

The Day of the Lord is the millennium, during which Christ reigns with a rod of iron until ALL enemies are under His feet. The first 3 1/2 years have the cast-down devil on earth whom God uses as an instrument of HIS wrath to force the people who remain to choose whom they will serve for eternity before God comes to destroy those who choose poorly.

Scripture is clear. The antichrist is not around during the great tribulation that is cut short before he arises. He is here during the time of wrath on the Day of the Lord.

Daniel11: 36 “The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.







​

 

[Choose Wisely]

3. Zechariah 14:7 indicates that the Day of the Lord is a 24 hour day. The Hebrew text says: "that day shall be one." [See also: Isa. 10:17]



Frankie

Maybe you should keep reading.

Zech 14

7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.


It can't be a 24 day because the day occurs in the summer and winter




2 Pet 3

7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


We are talking about a 1000 year....millenium.... period of time........the Day of the Lord.

 

[LovedofHim]

Lovey,

Disagree. The Roman ensigns were not placed upon the altar as the AOD will and needs to be.

END

"Upon the altar"?????? You are stuck on Epiphanes which was roughly 200 years before Christ. That is incorrect.

Matt 24: 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place

Daniel 11: 31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

luke 21:20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Psalm 74


1O God, why hast thou cast us off for ever? why doth thine anger smoke against the sheep of thy pasture?
2Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.
3Lift up thy feet unto the perpetual desolations; even all that the enemy hath done wickedly in the sanctuary.
4Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations; they set up their ensigns for signs.
5A man was famous according as he had lifted up axes upon the thick trees.
6But now they break down the carved work thereof at once with axes and hammers.
7They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, they have defiled by casting down the dwelling place of thy name to the ground. 8They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.

 

[chalkstc]

CW,

We are talking about a 1000 year....millenium.... period of time........the Day of the Lord.

I'm speaking the start of that day when He comes to deliver the saints and judge the wicked at the SC which is on the last day of this Age,

Read all the other texts on this day and you will see gloom and darkness etc. That does not go on thru the Millenium. And yes, after He sets up the Mill, His day will continue, for the day of man ended when the beast is slain.

 

[chalkstc]

"Upon the altar"?????? You are stuck on Epiphanes which was roughly 200 years before Christ. That is incorrect

Not stuck at all. Macc simply shows what an AOD is like and Rome does not fit the definition.

 

[LovedofHim]

CW,



I'm speaking the start of that day when He comes to deliver the saints and judge the wicked at the SC which is on the last day of this Age,

The gathering occurs when the Day of the Lord is beginning, before the time of wrath that we are not appointed to suffer.

Joel 2


1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. 3A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.


15Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: 16Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

Read all the other texts on this day and you will see gloom and darkness etc. That does not go on thru the Millenium. And yes, after He sets up the Mill, His day will continue, for the day of man ended when the beast is slain.

The Day of the Lord begins with the gathering of the elect, continues with the time of wrath/outpoouring of wrath, the entire 7th seal, before Jesus comes on the clouds to destroy.

Jesus rules and reigns for one millennium, 1000 years, with a rod of iron, putting all enemies under his feet.

The millennial day begins just after the great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect, we are gathered, and then the time of wrath on the Day of the Lord begins.

 

[LovedofHim]

Not stuck at all. Macc simply shows what an AOD is like and Rome does not fit the definition.

TEll me, chalkstc, did Jesus say he was referring to the abomination of desolation as spoken of in Maccabees or the "abomination of desolation as spoken of in Daniel"?

Matt 24: 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place

Daniel 11: 31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

luke 21:20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Psalm 74


1O God, why hast thou cast us off for ever? why doth thine anger smoke against the sheep of thy pasture?
2Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.
3Lift up thy feet unto the perpetual desolations; even all that the enemy hath done wickedly in the sanctuary.
4Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations; they set up their ensigns for signs.
5A man was famous according as he had lifted up axes upon the thick trees.
6But now they break down the carved work thereof at once with axes and hammers.
7They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, they have defiled by casting down the dwelling place of thy name to the ground. 8They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.

 

[son_flower]

Yup, but He did not say the AOD would happen at the demise of the Temple. He already said that there would not be left one stone upon another. That = 70AD. But the AOD was a new subject and transcends the Temple's destruction.

Lk's account gives the coming destruction, but never says it is the AOD, just literal desolation of property.

I have proved by the Maccabees that the AOD was a literal abomination by the prophaning of the altar by false worship by something placed on the altar that wasn't the Lord's acceptable sacrifice.

The Romans did nothing of the kind. They even set fire to melt the gold encased within the stones.

To make something desolate, their must be a "desolator". Who was it? Titus or Vespacian? Nada!

Note also.....there is no destruction of the Rev 11 Temple mentioned. So that means another Temple will be built without God's dwelling within it. Yet the two witnesses are sent to it. Why? Unless the falling away was being preached within it's walls.

Dan 11:45​

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.​

KJV

When was this done?

I think we are done here!

Hey look i know your hair hurts but you started it.

In Rev. 11 isn't it John who is measuring the Temple? Yes. That obviously must be some past event like you say when it was trodden underfoot.

Except if you look now there is people trodding it under foot. They built an unholy mosque there.

And what relevance does the temple have now that Jesus is the Lamb?
None. What is the point of building a new temple with an altar that is needless under the new covenant? None.

How can you desolate something that no longer has value. When WE are the temple of God.?