DOL cannot include the Tribulation

[son_flower]

Ok brother Frankie i am using just the bible since it is the complete history
of all mankind and the covenants made with them by God.
It is not rocket science
It is approved for children under 12.

We can both agree there are two covenants.
One old promise given to ancient Israel as a pattern and one new given to all who believe and confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
Agreed?

The old testament prophets looked ahead to the same event we look back on. The almighty cross of redemption. Their main concern was not the second coming it was the first coming to save them from sin.
It still is to this day. They do not believe Daniel is fulfilled either.
We are now in this new covenant age consisting of both believing Jew and Gentile alike as the One blood bought Spirit filled Church of Israel.
Agreed? yes.

Satan's first fall was pre-Adam, but he still had access to the heavenlies. See Job.
He is cast out of the heavenlies for good in Rev 12 when Michael stands up. This is future and happens in the last 1260 days of the GT.

Yes i have 'seen Job'.
Yes Satan fell before Adam. After Adams fall he then had dominion on earth and access to the throne before Jesus became the new Adam and was raised to it.
Our Kinsman Redeemer will gain back the reign of earth at the appointed time. According to KR law this is after the 6th year when in the 7th a worthy kinsman may undo the deeded seals in front of the court. Sound familiar?

Satan was defeated at the cross and is under our control. You can cast out devils Frankie they obey the name of Jesus and recognize the Holy Spirit of truth.

Col.2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

You percieve the last days as 3.5 years out of 6000. If in fact 1000 years is but a day with God, then a large part of prophecy was written for your tiny period of mere minutes.
So the rest of the Church's time of 1,973 earth years mean nothing.

The apostle Peter and Joel both disagree with you.
Notice the day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:17 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Now why did Peter say the 'last days' were fulfilled at Pentecost?
Because THESE last 2 days of the new covenant ARE the last days.

If i give you 6 cookies and later ask you for them but you have 2 left you would say "gee sorry sonflower i am down to my last cookies".
At this point i would call you a cookie beast. lol. hahaha

Daniel never says the 70 weeks are split up, Gabriel says they are determined. Determined upon Daniels people, the Jews of the old covenant, to make an end of sin and bring reconciliation and everlasting righteousness, no more temporary sacrifices they only covered and not removed.

Where do you calculate the cross to Stephen as 3 1/2 years?

Ok wow Frankie this is where i think you are just being argumentative.

On the outside chance that you truly do not know the book of Acts i will expound.
the 70 weeks are the final years determined upon the old covenant for the Jews. Jesus was a Jew and preached in the synogogues to the Jews and named King of the Jews.
He was not recieved and cut off by His own people and the power of the prince of darkness which i assume you know to whom that refers.

In the Acts we see this mission continuing after the Joel prophecy of the 'last days' is fulfilled at Pentecost. They preach in the temple and in Jerusalem to the Jews.
The overspreading of abominatons occurs since the new sacrifice has been made and they still rebel and still continue in the old.
Until Stephen is stoned and Saul, a Jew, is saved and stops persecuting the Christians and is named Paul and then sent out from Jerusalem to the gentiles in Acts 22.
Thus ends the 70th week for Daniels people and the city Jersualem is abandoned and Paul goes out and begins the preaching to the gentile nations, the ingrafting.
Thus begins the time of Jacobs trouble. A horrible time as many Christians are imprisoned and killed and it continues as long as God takes to build His new Israel. The Church. If you are truly in love with Christ, you WILL be hated.

If you want specific dates they are not there the Acts(actions) of the apostles are enough to prove it. You can keep your calculator on that one it is rather evident.
I cannot help your unbelief in the true Messiah that came and died on the cross for His people and for all people. Are you sure you are not a Jew??

And just where did you get the 66.5 AD figure from.....................old Joe? If we cannot even place Christ's birth accurately, how do you do the cross to Stephen thing and the zealot thing? 70 AD is the only historic date we have with accuracy. Nothing before it is 100%. Just like you said the Apostles all saw 70 AD. Proof please? Your preterist dogma is based on assumtion imo.

No assumptions here Frankie just straight up scripture for me thank you.

Luke was an excellent historian and said Jesus was 30 at His baptism in 27AD, the 15 year of Tiberius in Luk3:1.
Can you count backwards Frankie? that makes Jesus born in 3 BC if you use the ominous greggorian calendar of ours which the romans polluted seeking to change times and laws.

I already said the 3.5 years is not determined at the destruction its determined at the cross. You are confusing me with LOH and insisting i show you this time frame from Dan 11.

Leave poor Joe and the zealots alone its all the world has to prove in 70AD the old covenant temple was permanently torn down in that year.
It thats not bad enough, the Moslems have it now which makes it very hard for you futuristic Zionists.

Matt.24 is Dan 9. He was about to go to the cross and be 'cut off'. He told them when they see it come to pass GET out of here. Good thing they did, it was mainly all Jews who were slaughtered at 70AD.

Not dogma, Jesus Christ and His new covenant.
I am not waiting for a split in Daniels week it is finished at the cross and with the book of Acts.

This one is so convuluted, I won't even attempt to unravel it. peter was petros, a little stone. Christ is Petra....the Rock.

If you don't know the Catholic church and its papal history is founded on the rock of Saint Peter well study your own self.

John knew what Rome was up to and so did the 7 Churches in Asia.

You keep missing that Dan 12 is sbout the End of the age after the GT, not the end of the Jewish comodity. I asked you and Lovey about the global endtime versus your 70AD end?

No you keep adding a phrase that is not there.

Daniel 12 never once says the end of the age nor the end of the world.
Not once.
Its the time of the end. The last days of Joel that began in Acts. The time of Jacobs trouble that befalls the whole world because of what Jesus did for us and satans fury about being made to roam the earth in his defeated state with his sorry tail between his legs.

So he makes war with the remnant of old Israels seed. The seed of David.
Our firstborn brother Jesus, the manchild.
The new covenant Israel.

The raising of the dead in Dan 12 also happened 70 AD ish? LOL!

The raising of the dead in Dan 12 began the day Jesus was resurrected.
Graves were opened in Matt. and all who saw believed. Too bad you do not.

Are you still dead in your sins Frankie or have you been raised with Him to sit in heavenly places?

At the consummation we will all live as one. Is Michael allowed to stand up for a fight in heaven and get heads rolling and does Daniel say he remains in one spot?

or maybe you think he has to sleep when angels can wrestle for days and weeks on end.

Does he have a recliner he has to sit in or a bed? lol

you are silly with time constraints on heaven and the building of a new Church.

PS here is always going to be our problem .................you are some shade of a strict historist or a partial preterist and I am a futurist. You have the majority of prophecy already fulfilled, and I have the GT still to be fulfilled. why? Because Jesus reurns immediately after it............the time of trouble that is worldwide, and not just local in Israel that affected only Jewish believers who were only one generation of church.

No problem at all. The bible is full of history, 6000 years of.

Yes i have the majority of new covenant prophecy fulfilled by the Messiah that the Jews killed. Jesus the Christ the Lamb of God slain from the foundation for all who believe, worldwide.
The gospel is finished, completed, accomplished and goes out to all the world.

The entire world is still in tribulation because of it only the falling away has made it more and more evident who serves the beast and who does not.
And the immediately has not arrived yet.
No problem.

And 70 AD did not affect even the 7 churches a few hundred miles away. Sure they were persecuted, but the saints have always been since Cain and Abel.

70AD was not the affect is was a consequence. The cross Frankie. Its the Dan 9:27 Messiah at the cross that affects the whole world for all generations.

 

[chalkstc]

SF,

Little bites?

Now why did Peter say the 'last days' were fulfilled at Pentecost?
Because THESE last 2 days of the new covenant ARE the last days.

He says no such thing. The first part of Joel's prophecy was fullilled, but not the cosmic signs which are only fulfilled at the SC which is still future. Besides, Peter does not say "the last day has been fulfilled".

Why? Because it is the the day we a re raised at the SC at the end of the age. The last days are a collective time increment which has a beginning..............Pentecost and an ending.................the last day, singular, of the last days.............plural.

Dec 31, 2010 was the last day of that year. The next day was the first day of the next year. Christ comes on the last day....................immediately AFTER the trib of those days. The next time increment is the beginning of the 1000.

Frankie
PS do you consider yourself a partial preterist? If so, have you read any Gentry?

 

[POSTIOS]

Acts2 is a type for what will happen in the very end days, as that Cloven Tongues of fire from God will once again be utilized, and will conclude the Great Commission by getting the Word and Gospel of Christ into all languages that exist today on the earth. Each and every person will hear and understand what is said at that time.

The scene from Acts2 was IMO the same kind of event as what Joel was talking about would happen at the very end. I don't think it was the fulfillment.

Luk21

 

[Choose Wisely]

SF,

Little bites?



He says no such thing. The first part of Joel's prophecy was fullilled, but not the cosmic signs which are only fulfilled at the SC which is still future. Besides, Peter does not say "the last day has been fulfilled".

The first part of Joel's prophecy has not been fullfilled. The signs will come before the fulfillment.

And to muddy the waters further. The signs in Matt 24 and Luke 21 are probably different signs.

 

[son_flower]

SF,

Little bites?



He says no such thing. The first part of Joel's prophecy was fullilled, but not the cosmic signs which are only fulfilled at the SC which is still future. Besides, Peter does not say "the last day has been fulfilled".

Why? Because it is the the day we a re raised at the SC at the end of the age. The last days are a collective time increment which has a beginning..............Pentecost and an ending.................the last day, singular, of the last days.............plural.

Dec 31, 2010 was the last day of that year. The next day was the first day of the next year. Christ comes on the last day....................immediately AFTER the trib of those days. The next time increment is the beginning of the 1000.

Frankie
PS do you consider yourself a partial preterist? If so, have you read any Gentry?

I thought you canceled the Little bites.

Acts 2:17 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,

What part of "in the last days" Spirit filling did Peter not say came to pass there?


Fulfilled means 'come to pass'.
Fulfilled means it happened as the prophet spoke it.

You just said that part of the prophecy IS fulfilled so how did Peter say no such thing??

I totally agree there are cosmic signs that will happen in these last days as well i did not say that part was fulfilled Peter was referring to the beginning of the last days.

And Joel does not talk about Christ coming on the last day he says the cosmic things happen BEFORE the great and terrible day of the Lord.

Yes i agreed already the immediately has not happened yet it will be before the next increment, the next day of 1000 days.

I have not heard of Gentry i am a Christian. a read the scripturist.

 

[POSTIOS]

Post,



Did you ever entertain in light of Mike standing up, that he might be the restrainer of 2 TH 2?

I actually think it is Michael because of Daniel 12 and Revelation 12.

Here is an excerpt from a study I did on 2 TH 2..................

And now for the hardest section of our text. Who or what is the restrainer? We don't know! but what we do know, is that the phrase is in the masculine tense in Grk. and therefore is a person or a personality.

Various interpretations:

1) The Holy Spirit

Those of the pretrib. persuasion believe that the church will not even see antichrist and will be removed at the beginning of the 70th week. thus: they say that since the Holy Spirit dwells in the church; when the church is removed, the Holy Spirit will stop restraining antichrist; and seemingly be raptured to Heaven. They have no scriptural evidence for this. Only a belief via circular reasoning.

The Holy Spirit is: a reprover to the world of sin, righteousness and of judgment. see: (Jn 16:8‑11). The Holy Spirit "bade" Paul to go. (Acts 11:12). The Holy Spirit "forbade" Paul to preach the word in Asia. The Holy Spirit convicts, leads, fills, speaks, comforts, teaches, brings the word to our remembrance, and can be grieved but He is never called a restrainer of evil. The other problem with the Holy Spirit being removed, is that He is not bound by space or locality for He is omnipresent. Furthermore, how does anyone get saved during the 70th week without the Holy Spirit, for it is He who baptizes the new convert into the body of Christ. And even pretribbers believe that there will be others saved during that period of time.

2) The Lord

In (Job ch.1) ‑ we find that the Lord built a hedge around His servant to fence out Satan. The word "Lord" here is "Yahwah" or our transliteration ‑ "Jehova". When God removed His restraining hand, then and only then could Satan touch Job and even that was restricted or limited by the Lord. In (Rev 20); an angel restrains or binds Satan in the abyss, forcing the serpent to a prolonged sabbatical.

3) Civil government

Some scholars believe that the laws of the land and those that enforce them, is the restrainer. This could fit the context dealing with iniquity and antichrist being called "the lawless one". Jesus also said: "that because iniquity would abound, the love of many would wax or grow cold”. see: (Mt 24:12). Paul also notes to Timothy that evil men would get worse and worse. Let's just suppose, that if anarchy would erupt world wide, who would hesitate to welcome a messiah who said he could make the "boo boo" better? Although this is conjecture, it is plausible.

4) Michael the archangel

I know what you are thinking, I felt the same way when I heard it. But nevertheless, it just may fit.

Some expositors say that the phrase:

Daniel 12:1 and at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of Thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time Thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Stand up ‑ means to stand still. The Hebrew word is ...Amad. If you were sitting down and was asked to Amad, then you would stand up. But if you were standing up and was asked to Amad, then you would cease your action of standing or restraining and would stand still. If this rendering of the Hebrew phrase is accurate, then this would line up with the battle in the Heavens where Satan and his angels and Michael and his angels fight.

Note the timing is during the second half of the seventieth week or the "Great Trib. or "The Time of Jacob's Trouble". The result of this battle finds Satan the loser and he is cast out of the Heavenlies to the earth. see: (Rev 12) and in (Rev.13), we find John beholding the beast (antichrist) rise up from the sea. This last phrase could mean that he comes from the midst of mankind. The "sea" in many scriptures depicts men.


see: (Isa 57:20) / (Rev 17:15).

‑note: (Rev 13:2) ‑ states that it is at this time, that Satan gives antichrist his power, his seat, and great authority. It is even probable that antichrist is literally possessed by Satan himself. Therefore, "if" Michael is the restraining force, we see at this point in time, that the restraint is removed.

Whoever the restrainer is, is still a dark glass, but the important thing is that there is one. He is much like the flag man in a auto race. He is able to hold back those revving, powerful machines until he drops the flag. But notice, he doesn't leave the race, but simply steps aside or walks off of the track. So also antichrist, has to wait until God gives permission for the restraint to be removed. These are the various views of the restrainer, but remember, we cannot be dogmatic. Paul knew, God knows;.... but we're just not sure.

The rendering of he be taken out of the way is by far, a poor transliteration. For there is no "taken" or "way" in the Grk. Surprised? I was too.

Actual Grk. =
(vs 7) ‑ "for the mystery of lawlessness already is working; only (there is) he who restrains at present until out of (the) midst he be (gone)",
Now we have another puzzle. There are two times that the word "he" is stated. the first "he" is definitely the "restrainer".

But if we read the text without the parenthesis, (for they are not inspired), the second "he" is the one who "rises" out of the midst. This fits well with (Rev 13:1). Read that verse again with this in mind. Let's also note at this time, that the Holy Spirit or the church, are not mentioned or meant in this verse at all. And also, we need to look at the languages that the scriptures were written in to get the fuller and truer flavor of what is being communicated by the Holy Spirit who inspired it to begin with. Take for example the word "mansions" in (Jn 14:2). Many take this word as literally meaning a material house of some kind. But this is simply the word "abode", the same as in (Jn 14:23).

(vs 8) ‑ "and then"
(Grk. = tote) ‑ this means at the same time, shall that wicked (one) be revealed or unveiled so that his true self is exposed. Much like him taking off his mask. We know that he comes on the scene at the beginning of the 70th week as a peacemaker, but in the "midst of the week", see: (Dan 9:27), his play acting is over. This could also be the revealing of the mystery of (vs 7). He will continue for 42 months or 3 1/2 years. (the great trib.) and then Jesus will consume him with the "Spirit of His mouth", (the double edged sword of His word) and shall destroy him (Antichrist) with the "epiphanea" (brightness) of His (Christ's) "parousia". see: ( Dan 8:25)

(vs 9) ‑ "even him whose (parousia) coming".
Paul backtracks here to the "coming" (parousia) of the antichrist which is naturally before the "Coming" of Jesus Christ.

Frankie

 

[son_flower]

Acts2 is a type for what will happen in the very end days, as that Cloven Tongues of fire from God will once again be utilized, and will conclude the Great Commission by getting the Word and Gospel of Christ into all languages that exist today on the earth. Each and every person will hear and understand what is said at that time.

The scene from Acts2 was IMO the same kind of event as what Joel was talking about would happen at the very end. I don't think it was the fulfillment.

Luk21

Wow i have never heard the new testament called a type.

Where is that written?

And when did the Holy Spirit stop baptising believers? there would be no present day Church without Him.

 

[POSTIOS]

Wow i have never heard the new testament called a type.

Who called the NT a type?

Where is that written?

Where is what written?

And when did the Holy Spirit stop baptising believers?

Who ever said He did?

there would be no present day Church without Him.

I agree, so who says He stopped?

I don't think you understood anything that you just replied to.

 

[chalkstc]

SF,

You just said that part of the prophecy IS fulfilled so how did Peter say no such thing??

Acts 2:17 ​

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:​

18 ​

​

​

​

​

And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:​

19 ​

​

​

​

​

And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:​

20 ​

​

​

​

​

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:​

21 ​

​

​

​

​

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

​

KJV

Do you see it in vss 19,20? The cosmic signs happen before the DOL which is after the trib and not at Pentecost, just as Jesus said. Thus, this part of the prophecy is still to be fuflilled.

And vs 21 speaks of Salvation which is viable for any whosever that still has breath before Christ returns. This also then continues to that future. Or do you add to your error and say salvation stopped when Peter quoted Joel?

Let me show you another example.................................

Isa 61:1 ​

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;​

2 ​

​

​

​

​

To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord , and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;​

3 ​

​

​

​

​

To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord , that he might be glorified.​

KJV


Luke 4:17​

And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,​

18 ​

​

​

​

​

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,​

19 ​

​

​

​

​

To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

20​

​

​

​

​

And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.​

21​

​

​

​

​

And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.​

​

KJV

Do you see what Jesus left out of Isaiah's prophecy......."and the day of vengeance of our God;...

Though Isa spoke the whole prophecy in three verses, Jesus shortened the text for only the salvation portion was fulfilled when Jesus spoke it. The vengeance part was yet to come at His Second Coming.

Another neat one is in .................................

Isa 9:6​

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.​

7​

​

​

​

​

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.​

​

KJV

Here in two verses we have....................

Child is born = His incarnation at His First Coming.
A Son is given = His death burial and resurrection of His first coming.
The government etc. = His Millenial reign after His Second Coming.

All this time for two comings and after that in just 2 verses......................cool!

Frankie

 

[son_flower]

SF,

Acts 2:17 ​

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:​

18 ​

And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:​

19 ​

And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:​

20 ​

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:​

21 ​

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

KJV

Do you see it in vss 19,20? The cosmic signs happen before the DOL which is after the trib and not at Pentecost, just as Jesus said. Thus, this part of the prophecy is still to be fuflilled.

And vs 21 speaks of Salvation which is viable for any whosever that still has breath before Christ returns. This also then continues to that future. Or do you add to your error and say salvation stopped when Peter quoted Joel?

What error Frankie we are in agreement on all of that.

Yes i see it in vss 19,20. I agreed with you part is fulfilled and the rest continues.
All i am saying is the 'last days' began when Peter said so and CONTINUE for 2 days.

Let me show you another example.................................

Isa 61:1 ​

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;​

2 ​

To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord , and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;​

3 ​

To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord , that he might be glorified.​

KJV


Luke 4:17​

And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,​

18 ​

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,​

19 ​

To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

20​

And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.​

21​

And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.​

KJV

Do you see what Jesus left out of Isaiah's prophecy......."and the day of vengeance of our God;...

Though Isa spoke the whole prophecy in three verses, Jesus shortened the text for only the salvation portion was fulfilled when Jesus spoke it. The vengeance part was yet to come at His Second Coming.

Yes very nice. We agree on all of that.

Another neat one is in .................................

Isa 9:6​

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.​

7​

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.​

KJV

Here in two verses we have....................

Child is born = His incarnation at His First Coming.
A Son is given = His death burial and resurrection of His first coming.
The government etc. = His Millenial reign after His Second Coming.

Yes lovely.

All this time for two comings and after that in just 2 verses......................cool!

Ok cool. We do not have any problem here we agree wholeheartedly.
dont we??

 

[chalkstc]

SF,

Ok cool. We do not have any problem here we agree wholeheartedly.
dont we??

Did I misunderstand you as saying all of Joel's prophecy was fuflilled when Peter uttered it?

If so, Forgive me

The cosmic signs are yet to come? Agreed? Just before the SC. Agreed?

Frankie

 

[son_flower]

SF,



Did I misunderstand you as saying all of Joel's prophecy was fuflilled when Peter uttered it?

If so, Forgive me

The cosmic signs are yet to come? Agreed? Just before the SC. Agreed?

Frankie

Yes agreed. Obviously those have yet to happen.
All i am saying is Pentecost prompted Peter to say the 'last days' spoken of by Joel when the Holy Spirit indwells believers. Partial fulfillment.
The days have yet to finish.
Exciting times we live in brother Frankie.
Terrible, wonderful days.

 

[chalkstc]

SF,

Yes agreed. Obviously those have yet to happen.
All i am saying is Pentecost prompted Peter to say the 'last days' spoken of by Joel when the Holy Spirit indwells believers. Partial fulfillment.
The days have yet to finish.
Exciting times we live in brother Frankie.
Terrible, wonderful days.

I know it is hard sometimes to express on the written page what we mean, but your first reply made it sound like Joel's complete prophecy was completed at Pentecost.

And yes, the last days plural had to have a beginning. But they also have a "last day" singular that ends the series of all those days.

Frankie