Dog, Cat & Horse "evolution"

[JohnR7]

It started in 1879 with the American paleontologist O.C. Marsh and the famous evolutionist T.H. Huxley, known as ‘Darwin’s bulldog.’ Since then, many museums and popular books have presented a neat series starting from the dog-sized, four-toed ‘dawn horse’ or ‘Eohippus,’ which supposedly lived 50 million years ago.

The next creature is usually a larger creature like Mesohippus, which had three toes. The next one was larger still, for example Merychippus, which had two of the toes smaller than the third. Finally, there is the large modern horse, Equus, with only one toe, while all that is left of the other two are ‘vestigial’ splint bones.3 Some of the diagrams also show trends in tooth changes, with increasing hypsodonty (high-crowned teeth). This is supposed to demonstrate a change from browsing on bushes to grazing on grass.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4117.asp

I do not think anyone would object to placing older extinct animals in with horses, for lack of any place else to classify them. But just to classify them that way is not evidence that one evolved into the other. It is only evidence that there are older extinct animal, that have a similarity to more modern animals.

 

[Heathen Dawn]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4117.asp

I do not think anyone would object to placing older extinct animals in with horses, for lack of any place else to classify them. But just to classify them that way is not evidence that one evolved into the other. It is only evidence that there are older extinct animal, that have a similarity to more modern animals.

If the one didn't evolve into the other, where did the other ones come from? You're saying a new horse species just popped out of nowhere? Are you some kind of progressive creationist?

 

[JohnR7]

You're saying a new horse species just popped out of nowhere? Are you some kind of progressive creationist?

They did not just pop up out of nowhere, God created them. Then He gave them the ability to be able to reproduce themselves.

Genesis 2:19
And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 

[notto]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4117.asp

I do not think anyone would object to placing older extinct animals in with horses, for lack of any place else to classify them. But just to classify them that way is not evidence that one evolved into the other. It is only evidence that there are older extinct animal, that have a similarity to more modern animals.

Why don't we find fossils of modern species of horses in with the fossils of these older, extinct ones? You seem to be suggesting that similarity is the only criteria used to determine ancestry. The age and location of the fossil finds is also taken into account.

Why don't we find fossils of one toed horses in with the three toed? If they are not related, there would not be a gradual transformation from 3 toed to one toed.

 

[JohnR7]

Why don't we find fossils of one toed horses in with the three toed?

We do, three toed horse like animals can be found as recent as 10 million years ago in Nebraska well after they are finding one toed horses.

http://www.ngpc.state.ne.us/parks/parkinfo/Historical/ashfall.html

Three toed horse vanished in American along with Camals, saber toothed tigars and all the rest of them.

 

[notto]

We do, three toed horse like animals can be found as recent as 10 million years ago in Nebraska well after they are finding one toed horses.

http://www.ngpc.state.ne.us/parks/parkinfo/Historical/ashfall.html

Three toed horse vanished in American along with Camals, saber toothed tigars and all the rest of them.

Did they find any onetoed horses in that particular area in that particular find?

Why not?

To rephrase m y question, why are there times in the historic geological record when there were no one-toed horses?

 

[ThePhoenix]

So... basically modern horses just sprang into being all of a sudden without any ancestors?

 

[T.R.D.]

So... basically modern horses just sprang into being all of a sudden without any ancestors?

According to YEC that is what happened.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Then why all the horses that died out 10,000, or ten million years ago (oh wait, the earth wasn't around then)? Am I supposed to elieve that they are totally unrelated?

On a side note - humans have forced the evolution of dozens of dog species from the wolf (or possibly the coyote). What makes you think that nature can't do the same?

 

[JohnR7]

Did they find any onetoed horses in that particular area in that particular find?

Actually, yes, the same species was sometimes three toed and sometimes one toed. Even today something horses come out three toed. Although it is considered a birth defect.

In north-eastern Oregon, the three-toed Neohipparion and one-toed Pliohippus were found in the same layer. This indicates that they were living at the same time, and thus provides no evidence that one evolved from the other.

Of course the real probem is that 100 years ago, the idea that the horse evolved was rather simple. But now as they find more and more fossils, it is becomeing quite a bit more complex to try and use the different species of horses to prove evolution.

 

[JohnR7]

So... basically modern horses just sprang into being all of a sudden without any ancestors?

Yes, of course. To explain the modern world is no problem for creationism. To explain the old world is more difficult, because the Bible says so little about it.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Ok, then explain how there's so many different species of dog, if evolution is impossible. If species don't change, then humans would be unable to force them to change. However if there was a preexisting impetus to change then it would be possible for humans to exploit that to create new species.

 

[JohnR7]

Ok, then explain how there's so many different species of dog, if evolution is impossible.

Because God created a lot of species of dogs. I think every species has 1000 variations. You can breed them anyway you want.

 

[ThePhoenix]

But there were no dogs until about very recently (about 10000 years or so ago). There have been new species created within the last hundred years. We have documentation on the creation of many of the species. Clearly man created many of them, if not all of them.

 

[Cantuar]

OK, so God created some sort of small creatuer that didn't look all that much like a horse, let it go extinct and created something very like it but a bit more like a horse, let it go extinct and created something very like it but a bit mroe like a horse, let it go extinct and created - guess what - and on and on until he got around to creating horses? Isn't that a bit inefficient?