Does your doing away with your sin, earn you the right to get into Heaven...? And/or does it...?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

To do that would be grieving the Holy Spirit. Refraining from sin is part of repentance and being born again or becoming a new creation. Keep in mind what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23.

When an exegesis is done on those verses, when we go back to the start of the reference in verse 15, we see that Jesus is referring to false prophets and not to ordinary believers. He is warning the people to recognise false prophets and teachers and to explain to them that if the tree is bad (that is if the prophet or teacher's heart is bad) then the fruit (or what they teach and the effect of their teaching) is going to be bad. Then He goes on to say that there will be those who will stand up before the Lord, who have prophesied, cast out demons, and done great things for Him.

These things are good in themselves, and have a great benefit if the prophet or teacher's heart is right with God. (I jumped into hermeneutics here).

But these ones with bad hearts will try and justify themselves through the works they have done for the Lord. They are trusting in their works instead of revealing exactly who they really are - poor sinners and nothing at all and unprofitable servants. Jesus says that when these ones stand up before Him He will say, "I never knew you. Depart from Me you workers of iniquity."

What you have done is ignored the accurate exegesis and therefore have not explained the Lord's intention, who He was speaking to, who He was referring to, and why He was making the statement. Also, it is important to know how His First Century Jewish hearers understood what He was saying to them.

Therefore, when you try to hermeneutically (that is, apply the Scripture to modern believers) interpret the Scripture in order to prove your point, because your exegesis is faulty, your hermeneutical interpretation is also faulty.

It does not apply to ordinary Christian believers, because they have come to Christ poor, helpless sinners, and have put their whole trust in Christ. Any good works they have done after conversion is the work of the Holy Spirit through them, and so they know for all the achievements they have made, they are still unprofitable servants, so that when they come and stand before Christ, they come as poor sinners, saying, "You gave us promises in your Word, and we believed them and came to your throne of grace to find mercy and grace to help in our time of need." Jesus will say, "Well, done, faithful servants. Enter into the joy of your Lord."

So, you need to take care that you are not giving false teaching by applying passages of Scripture that don't apply to ordinary believers.

Walking in the Spirit is not through self effort at all. We actually do nothing to make us more sanctified. We rest in Christ and allow Him through the Holy Spirit to work sanctification through us.

So, if you are teaching that we must, through our own effects to do good works to walk in the Spirit, think again. We walk in the Spirit, and because of that, we do what we can to honour the Lord in our lives and ministry out of gratitude for what He has done for us. What we do in terms of good works is totally voluntary, and we will be rewarded according to the extent that we cooperate with the Holy Spirit as He leads us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, you cannot lose your salvation, even if you grieve the holy spirit. The holy spirit cannot leave you. You are sealed. So you are wrong here.... But the truth is people reap what they sow. So if you continue in sin there will be temporal consequences, whether that's early death, disease, loss of blessings.... And eternal consequences such as loss of rewards in heaven. I don't know about you but I don't want to just barely pass through to heaven from the flames of hell just by his grace but I want full rewards and my full inheritance in heaven because eternity is a long time. That is always good motivation to have.

Repentance means change your mind (from unbelief or dead works of the law to belief in Jesus Christ). The minute you say you can lose your salvation if you sin too much, or the minute you say repentance means turning from sin to get saved, not the biblical definition which is changing your mind from unbelief, then you are in error and don't understand the gospel... Salvation is a free gift by him alone and it can't be lost. We can't earn it or maintain it, regardless of our sin or our works, which are all like filthy rags. Only he makes us righteous. We are saved by the obedience of one and get eternal life from Jesus Christ alone, not our works.

Then explain John 15:2 please. The Father cuts off every branch IN ME (in Christ) that does not bear fruit. Or John 15:6 If anyone does not abide (remain) in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Branches who are in Christ can be cut off from Christ. Anyone (not excluding believers) who does not abide (remain) in Me (Christ) is thrown away as a branch and dries up and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Here are a few more examples that apply to anyone also not excluding believers.

When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Galatians 5:19-21


Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.


Matthew 3:10


Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


Revelation 21:27


Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.


Ephesians 5:3-6


But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’ “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.


Matthew 25:31-46


A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 24:45-51


All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.


Revelation 21:7-8

 

[BNR32FAN]

When an exegesis is done on those verses, when we go back to the start of the reference in verse 15, we see that Jesus is referring to false prophets and not to ordinary believers. He is warning the people to recognise false prophets and teachers and to explain to them that if the tree is bad (that is if the prophet or teacher's heart is bad) then the fruit (or what they teach and the effect of their teaching) is going to be bad. Then He goes on to say that there will be those who will stand up before the Lord, who have prophesied, cast out demons, and done great things for Him.

These things are good in themselves, and have a great benefit if the prophet or teacher's heart is right with God. (I jumped into hermeneutics here).

But these ones with bad hearts will try and justify themselves through the works they have done for the Lord. They are trusting in their works instead of revealing exactly who they really are - poor sinners and nothing at all and unprofitable servants. Jesus says that when these ones stand up before Him He will say, "I never knew you. Depart from Me you workers of iniquity."

What you have done is ignored the accurate exegesis and therefore have not explained the Lord's intention, who He was speaking to, who He was referring to, and why He was making the statement. Also, it is important to know how His First Century Jewish hearers understood what He was saying to them.

Therefore, when you try to hermeneutically (that is, apply the Scripture to modern believers) interpret the Scripture in order to prove your point, because your exegesis is faulty, your hermeneutical interpretation is also faulty.

It does not apply to ordinary Christian believers, because they have come to Christ poor, helpless sinners, and have put their whole trust in Christ. Any good works they have done after conversion is the work of the Holy Spirit through them, and so they know for all the achievements they have made, they are still unprofitable servants, so that when they come and stand before Christ, they come as poor sinners, saying, "You gave us promises in your Word, and we believed them and came to your throne of grace to find mercy and grace to help in our time of need." Jesus will say, "Well, done, faithful servants. Enter into the joy of your Lord."

So, you need to take care that you are not giving false teaching by applying passages of Scripture that don't apply to ordinary believers.

Walking in the Spirit is not through self effort at all. We actually do nothing to make us more sanctified. We rest in Christ and allow Him through the Holy Spirit to work sanctification through us.

So, if you are teaching that we must, through our own effects to do good works to walk in the Spirit, think again. We walk in the Spirit, and because of that, we do what we can to honour the Lord in our lives and ministry out of gratitude for what He has done for us. What we do in terms of good works is totally voluntary, and we will be rewarded according to the extent that we cooperate with the Holy Spirit as He leads us.

Please read post #82 it contains many more examples of my point. Also notice how Jesus continues the message afterwards.

“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. EVERYONE who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell-and great was its fall."”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:21-27‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Everyone does not only apply to false prophets and it does not exclude believers.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Please read post #82 it contains many more examples of my point. Also notice how Jesus continues the message afterwards.

“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. EVERYONE who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell-and great was its fall."”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:21-27‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Everyone does not only apply to false prophets and it does not exclude believers.

The quote certainly does not apply to believers trusting wholly in Jesus and who are walking in the Spirit day by day.

But it does apply to those who think they are somebody and that they deserve to be favoured of God for the things they are doing for Him. This produces problems for churches that teach selfist doctrine and encourage their members to have a positive self image and self esteem, when the Scripture says that we should die to self.

"Aren't I a great person because I read the Bible, go to church six times a week, witness to everyone I meet, serve as an elder or deacon, teach Sunday school, and live a totally moral life - not like that lice-ridden drunk over there or that prostitute on the street corner!" Does that remind you of something that Jesus said about that?

 

[BNR32FAN]

The quote certainly does not apply to believers trusting wholly in Jesus and who are walking in the Spirit day by day.

But it does apply to those who think they are somebody and that they deserve to be favoured of God for the things they are doing for Him. This produces problems for churches that teach selfist doctrine and encourage their members to have a positive self image and self esteem, when the Scripture says that we should die to self.

"Aren't I a great person because I read the Bible, go to church six times a week, witness to everyone I meet, serve as an elder or deacon, teach Sunday school, and live a totally moral life - not like that lice-ridden drunk over there or that prostitute on the street corner!" Does that remind you of something that Jesus said about that?

Who is saying that they are righteous because of their works? I certainly never said any such thing. Your twisting what I said to the most extremely obtuse position. You don’t see me saying things like you believe you don’t have to do anything for salvation so you don’t do any works therefore your not abiding in Christ. I don’t say such things because I have no intention of implicating things about anyone that are not true. Why would you say such a thing like that about me? I didn’t do anything to deserve that. I’m simply quoting the scriptures in the proper context. The same context you will find in the early church father’s writings all the way back to the beginning of the church. Look at the examples of the apostles. None of them sat around idle, just believing and doing nothing. Why? Was it because they were trying to earn their salvation? No it was because they are devoted servants of God who devoted their life to please Him by following His commandments because they love Him. Why does doing good works have to be about earning salvation? It’s about the two most important commandments. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love each other as Jesus loves us. Jesus told us if we love Him we will keep His commandments. Don’t you want to do things that please those you love?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Who is saying that they are righteous because of their works? I certainly never said any such thing. Your twisting what I said to the most extremely obtuse position. You don’t see me saying things like you believe you don’t have to do anything for salvation so you don’t do any works therefore your not abiding in Christ. I don’t say such things because I have no intention of implicating things about anyone that are not true. Why would you say such a thing like that about me? I didn’t do anything to deserve that. I’m simply quoting the scriptures in the proper context. The same context you will find in the early church father’s writings all the way back to the beginning of the church. Look at the examples of the apostles. None of them sat around idle, just believing and doing nothing. Why? Was it because they were trying to earn their salvation? No it was because they are devoted servants of God who devoted their life to please Him by following His commandments because they love Him. Why does doing good works have to be about earning salvation? It’s about the two most important commandments. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love each other as Jesus loves us. Jesus told us if we love Him we will keep His commandments. Don’t you want to do things that please those you love?

This is not about me at all. Careful exegesis of the Scripture shows that it does not refer to genuinely converted believers at all. The context is about false prophets. I have no issue with your comments, it is just your misapplication of Scripture to those to whom it doesn't apply.

 

[Neogaia777]

It is going to take me a while to go through these posts as I just got back, but, I have this in the meantime...

I was told since I posted this that "repentance" is the one and only thing that God (He that was speaking to me and told me this) cannot (or will not) force or make us do (or not do), and that everything else he could and can and does, but the repenting part is on us, we have to do it, it is the one and only thing that is solely in our control or is solely ours, or our decision to make, do or choose, ect...

Repentance is the one thing that He either cannot, or will not ever try to control, everything, he will and can and does, and can, ect...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Does "your" doing away with "your" sin, "earn" you the "right" to get into Heaven...?

And/or does "it" give you, or earn you, (the right), or make you, or cause you to (become) "stronger than", or somehow make you strong enough to overcome the enemy, and/or make or cause him to submit (to you?), and do (your?) "bidding", ect...?

Or cause you to have, or get, or gain "power" (over him) of some kind or some sort...? And, if so, from where (does that power come from)...?

And to the former right before this, also I ask "if so", how is it not "you" and all (your own) "doing", ect...?

Where is God in it/this, ect...? If it is all your own doing, or getting, and/or becoming, ect...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Luke 11:18-23- “If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? Because you say I cast out demons by Beelzebub. “And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. “But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. “But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils. “He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

Matthew 12:29- "For who is powerful enough to enter the house of a strong man like Satan and plunder his goods? Only someone even stronger—someone who could tie him up and then plunder his house.

Mark 3:27- Let me illustrate this further. Who is powerful enough to enter the house of a strong man like Satan and plunder his goods? Only someone even stronger—someone who could tie him up and then plunder his house.

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Luke 11:18-23- “If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? Because you say I cast out demons by Beelzebub. “And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. “But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. “But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils. “He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

Matthew 12:29- "For who is powerful enough to enter the house of a strong man like Satan and plunder his goods? Only someone even stronger—someone who could tie him up and then plunder his house.

Mark 3:27- Let me illustrate this further. Who is powerful enough to enter the house of a strong man like Satan and plunder his goods? Only someone even stronger—someone who could tie him up and then plunder his house.

God Bless!

Now Jesus did not get His power from Satan, but He did make him subject to Him... His power cam from God, or the Spirit within Him and the Spirit above Him, to confront the Spirit in front of Him or in His way, or around, or in the world and in other people around Him, ect...

Jesus tried to make that clear, but they didn't understand...

By "subject to Him" I mean Satan did not have the power to prevent "anything" Jesus wanted to do, and had to "agree" to whatever Jesus said, was "forced" to agree and not prevent, ect...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

How do I do what?

Do away with your sin...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

If you could earn your own salvation by doing what Jesus did, then God would have sent you instead of Jesus. That's how I see it.

So then, what is the point of repenting, or trying to overcome sin, ect...? Is it all vanity...?

If we are to be like Jesus, or follow in His ways or His path, then, well, "what" exactly...?

I'm not trying to earn what Jesus earned by trying to do what He did or follow in His ways or His path, and I don't suggest anyone do that, with that in mind ever, but Just because I know it is "the way", and it is what is good and just and right, following in His ways and walking in His path, is obedience, is it not...?

And if it leads into "doing what He did", then, so be it, right...?

God Bless!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I had thought for those who think that we can be saved today and lost tomorrow.

If you paid $1.5 million for a Old Masters original painting, would you just having it hanging in your toilet, or someplace where anyone could walk off with it, or would you take special care that it doesn't get damaged or lost?

If God paid the ultimate price of sending His only Son to pay the price for our salvation, do you think that God is going to take it lightly and allow those whom He paid that price for be lost just like that? Or will He use His almighty power to keep them in the faith, meet their needs, sustain their faith, and keep them in the paths of righteousness until He gets them safely to glory?

Some think that believers can easily fall away when they get into strife with their sins or negative circumstances. It makes me wonder how big and powerful their God really is!

 

[Neogaia777]

I had thought for those who think that we can be saved today and lost tomorrow.

If you paid $1.5 million for a Old Masters original painting, would you just having it hanging in your toilet, or someplace where anyone could walk off with it, or would you take special care that it doesn't get damaged or lost?

If God paid the ultimate price of sending His only Son to pay the price for our salvation, do you think that God is going to take it lightly and allow those whom He paid that price for be lost just like that? Or will He use His almighty power to keep them in the faith, meet their needs, sustain their faith, and keep them in the paths of righteousness until He gets them safely to glory?

Some think that believers can easily fall away when they get into strife with their sins or negative circumstances. It makes me wonder how big and powerful their God really is!

Well said, and as I said (or as I was told) the one and only thing He can't, or won't control is our own repentance, but everything else He does or can have control over, or is in His hands...

But that being said, does our own repentance merit us our own salvation...?

God Bless!

 

[DM25]

So then, what is the point of repenting, or trying to overcome sin, ect...? Is it all vanity...?

If we are to be like Jesus, or follow in His ways or His path, then, well, "what" exactly...?

I'm not trying to earn what Jesus earned by trying to do what He did or follow in His ways or His path, and I don't suggest anyone do that, with that in mind ever, but Just because I know it is "the way", and it is what is good and just and right, following in His ways and walking in His path, is obedience, is it not...?

And if it leads into "doing what He did", then, so be it, right...?

God Bless!

I explained that. It's about rewards in heaven, blessings on earth, and not facing bad consequences in this life. It's about having joy in your walk. It's about giving glory to God so others can see Christ in you. Or simply do them because you love God. There are lots of motives for good works and turning from sin besides fear. (and fear comes from the devil).

 

[DM25]

Well said, and as I said (or as I was told) the one and only thing He can't, or won't control is our own repentance, but everything else He does or can have control over, or is in His hands...

But that being said, does our own repentance merit us our own salvation...?

God Bless!

Repentance meaning a change of mind from unbelief to belief is not a work. "Repent" was simply a statement in scripture, it was not an instruction on how to get saved. But obviously when we come to Jesus we have repented (changed our minds). Jesus was yelling repent to the pharisees who were still under the law so they may repent (change their mind) from dead works of the law. We should repent of our sins AFTER we are saved, not to get saved or stay saved. You can't clean a fish until you catch it first. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is not a work, and it's the finished work of Jesus what saves you.

 

[Neogaia777]

I explained that. It's about rewards in heaven, blessings on earth, and not facing bad consequences in this life.

Is our salvation dependent upon our repentance...?

There are lots of motives for good works and turning from sin besides fear. (and fear comes from the devil).

Does God use that fear...? What about fearing God being the beginning of wisdom...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Repentance meaning a change of mind from unbelief to belief is not a work. "Repent" was simply a statement in scripture, it was not an instruction on how to get saved. But obviously when we come to Jesus we have repented (changed our minds). Jesus was yelling repent to the pharisees who were still under the law so they may repent (change their mind) from dead works of the law. We should repent of our sins AFTER we are saved, not to get saved or stay saved. You can't clean a fish until you catch it first. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is not a work, and it's the finished work of Jesus what saves you.

What about sin in your/our lives...?

God Bless!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well said, and as I said (or as I was told) the one and only thing He can't, or won't control is our own repentance, but everything else He does or can have control over, or is in His hands...

But that being said, does our own repentance merit us our own salvation...?

God Bless!

Repentance comes after salvation. Otherwise, if salvation is dependent on repentance, then it is salvation by works, because repentance is a work even though it is good. A person can repent but still be a unsaved repentant sinner still headed toward hell.

Salvation happens when a person believes the gospel of Christ, and through the gospel the power of God leads him to salvation. Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ because it is the power of God unto salvation to all those who believe."

The story of Zack is a good example. He got up a tree to see Jesus better because he was short. But he wanted to see Jesus, so that was His choice. Jesus saw him and invited Himself to lunch at Zack's place. That was totally unheard of for a Jew to go and eat with a tax collector employed by the hated Romans. A Jew could be excommunicated from the Temple for it. Zack knew it, and it signalled Jesus's total acceptance of him, without any change on his part. That supports the Scripture, "By grace are you saved by faith, and not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God." Jesus' acceptance of Zack was totally unearned in anyway by Zack. Jesus accepted him as he was, not because he was worth saving, but that Jesus by pure grace decided to accept him.

The result of this was that Jesus said, "Truly salvation has come to this house!" and then he repented by paying back those whom he had robbed four time as much as he had ripped them off in the first place.

Therefore, repentance is not a prerequisite for salvation, but salvation certainly does result in repentance.

 

[DM25]

What about sin in your/our lives...?

God Bless!

Repenting of sins doesn't save you, nor is it required for salvation... (But you should do it AFTER you get saved, not to maintain salvation, but because of rewards and consequences in this life and to have joy in your walk. Everything I mentioned in my other post).

Repenting of sins (turning from sins) is a work, and we are not saved by works, but by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

 

[Neogaia777]

Repentance comes after salvation. Otherwise, if salvation is dependent on repentance, then it is salvation by works, because repentance is a work even though it is good. A person can repent but still be a unsaved repentant sinner still headed toward hell.

What about "Repent and be baptized"...?

And I don't think a person can truly and truly successfully repent and not be saved or headed toward hell...

Salvation happens when a person believes the gospel of Christ, and through the gospel the power of God leads him to salvation. Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ because it is the power of God unto salvation to all those who believe."

The story of Zack is a good example. He got up a tree to see Jesus better because he was short. But he wanted to see Jesus, so that was His choice.

Supposedly his choice, but that's a whole other topic or issue...

Jesus saw him and invited Himself to lunch at Zack's place. That was totally unheard of for a Jew to go and eat with a tax collector employed by the hated Romans. A Jew could be excommunicated from the Temple for it. Zack knew it, and it signalled Jesus's total acceptance of him, without any change on his part. That supports the Scripture, "By grace are you saved by faith, and not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God." Jesus' acceptance of Zack was totally unearned in anyway by Zack. Jesus accepted him as he was, not because he was worth saving, but that Jesus by pure grace decided to accept him.

The result of this was that Zack said, "Truly salvation has come to this house!" and then he repented by paying back those whom he had robbed four time as much as he had ripped them off in the first place.

Zach said...? Don't you mean Jesus said...?

Therefore, repentance is not a prerequisite for salvation, but salvation certainly does result in repentance.

So one does not need to repent to be saved...?

And then, is repentance a work of God, or us...?

God Bless!