Does your doing away with your sin, earn you the right to get into Heaven...? And/or does it...?

[DM25]

Therefore, repentance is not a prerequisite for salvation, but salvation certainly does result in repentance.

Result in repentance of sins? Not all the time... There are such things as carnal Christians. Paul spoke about them in 2 Corinthians. God chastises and disciplines them, but doesn't send them to hell.

 

[DM25]

What about "Repent and be baptized"...?

And I don't think a person can truly and truly successfully repent and not be saved or headed toward hell...



Supposedly his choice, but that's a whole other topic or issue...



Zach said...? Don't you mean Jesus said...?



So one does not need to repent to be saved...?

And then, is repentance a work of God, or us...?

God Bless!

You do not need to repent of sins to get saved. In fact if you repent of sins to get saved, you won't get saved! Because the prerequisite for salvation is recognizing you are not saved by works. And repenting of sins or turning from sins is a work. So someone who repents of their sins IN ORDER TO GET SAVED is gonna go to hell, unless they repent about repentance lol.

 

[Neogaia777]

Repenting of sins doesn't save you, nor is it required for salvation... (But you should do it AFTER you get saved, not to maintain salvation, but because of rewards and consequences in this life and to have joy in your walk. Everything I mentioned in my other post).

Repenting of sins (turning from sins) is a work, and we are not saved by works, but by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

So you can still be saved, but maybe miserable (in this life) maybe if you do not repent...?

Is that Biblical...?

God Bless!

 

[DM25]

So you can still be saved, but maybe miserable (in this life) maybe if you do not repent...?

Is that Biblical...?

God Bless!

Yes correct. That is biblical. Pretty rare though that saved Christians live a life full of sin, I personally don't know any. But every man will reap what they sow. I don't live my life as just barely making it to heaven from the flames of hell by his grace, but I want full rewards and my full inheritance in heaven as eternity is a long time.

 

[Neogaia777]

You do not need to repent of sins to get saved. In fact if you repent of sins to get saved, you won't get saved! Because the prerequisite for salvation is recognizing you are not saved by works. And repenting of sins or turning from sins is a work. So someone who repents of their sins IN ORDER TO GET SAVED is gonna go to hell, unless they repent about repentance lol.

Agree, maybe...? Or that's the way I would think... but is that Biblical or not...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes correct. That is biblical. Pretty rare though that saved Christians live a life full of sin, I personally don't know any. But every man will reap what they sow.

Right, generally truly being saved always results with the "fruit" of repentance...

Or at least that's the way I would think, just not sure if it is Biblical or not...?

There are a lot of passages that maybe do not directly say, but do imply very strongly that you have to repent to be saved...

But, as to the former, are we to judge, or be judging one another's, especially salvation, by those, or that fruit, or not...?

God Bless!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What about "Repent and be baptized"...?
And I don't think a person can truly and truly successfully repent and not be saved or headed toward hell...
Supposedly his choice, but that's a whole other topic or issue...
Zach said...? Don't you mean Jesus said...?
So one does not need to repent to be saved...?
And then, is repentance a work of God, or us...?

God Bless!

I stand corrected. It was Jesus who said it!
If you define "repent" as "change your attitude to Christ" then you are right because this would be evangelical repentance. But if you are defining repentance as giving up sin and trying to live a holy life in order to be saved, then that salvation by Law, and faith is not in Christ but the person's own ability to live such that his reformation will please God.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Result in repentance of sins? Not all the time... There are such things as carnal Christians. Paul spoke about them in 2 Corinthians. God chastises and disciplines them, but doesn't send them to hell.

There is no such thing as a carnal Christian. A person is either carnal and still dead in his trespasses or is a Christian filled with the Spirit.
If you read 1 Corinthians 3:1, you will see that Paul never called them "carnal Christians", but he spoke to them "as carnal"; in other words, they were Spirit-filled Christians but still acting as natural men, and Paul had to give them the basics of the faith.

I went through 2 Corinthians and couldn't find any reference to "carnal Christians" there.

 

[Neogaia777]

I stand corrected. It was Jesus who said it!
If you define "repent" as "change your attitude to Christ" then you are right because this would be evangelical repentance. But if you are defining repentance as giving up sin and trying to live a holy life in order to be saved, then that salvation by Law, and faith is not in Christ but the person's own ability to live such that his reformation will please God.

I recently defined "repentance" as not be specifically about sin, although sin is involved, anyway, to be: "A deep inner core inward change or great turnaround from what you were formerly, or the wickedness you use to be, practice, or express formerly, ect"...

But that is my own definition though...

God Bless!

 

[DM25]

I recently defined "repentance" as not be specifically about sin, although sin is involved, anyway, to be: "A deep inner core inward change or great turnaround from what you were formerly, or the wickedness you use to be, practice, or express formerly, ect"...

But that is my own definition though...

God Bless!

Don't listen to that person. Salvation is by grace alone through faith, not works. Works have nothing to do with salvation, but rewards. You must know this if you are saved.

 

[DM25]

As I said, I can't find anything in 2 Corinthians that says that. And in 1 Corinthians Paul definitely did not say, "You are carnal Christians".
Show me the the reference 2 Corinthians where Paul says clearly that the Corinthians were carnal Christians. Until you can show me the exact reference, I cannot believe you.

The whole book of 2 Corinthians is a rebuke to believers who are carnal. Paul telling them to stop acting that way. Carnality means giving into your flesh and fleshly desires. We all do that sometimes, some more than others, especially babies in Christ. We SHOULD get sanctified and grow in Christ but unfortunately some don't. But this is rare because most people I know want to grow in Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The whole book of 2 Corinthians is a rebuke to believers who are carnal. Paul telling them to stop acting that way. Carnality means giving into your flesh and fleshly desires. We all do that sometimes, some more than others, especially babies in Christ. We SHOULD get sanctified and grow in Christ but unfortunately some don't. But this is rare because most people I know want to grow in Christ.

I looked all the way through 2 Corinthians and did not see any of that. I honestly don't know how you can read any of that into the book. If Paul has not said directly to them, "You are carnal Christians", then you are making a statement that is not there and that you are adding to what Paul is actually saying.

 

[Neogaia777]

Don't listen to that person. Salvation is by grace alone through faith, not works. Works have nothing to do with salvation, but rewards. You must know this if you are saved.

It's just a definition of repentance, not a statement about it...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

It's just a definition of repentance, not a statement about it...

God Bless!

I'm trying to get those answers right now... "Statements" about it, ect...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm trying to get those answers right now... "Statements" about it, ect...

God Bless!

How it is, or how it happens, ect, whose work it is, ect... Salvation being dependent on it or not, ect...

God Bless!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So then, what is the point of repenting, or trying to overcome sin, ect...? Is it all vanity...?

If we are to be like Jesus, or follow in His ways or His path, then, well, "what" exactly...?

I'm not trying to earn what Jesus earned by trying to do what He did or follow in His ways or His path, and I don't suggest anyone do that, with that in mind ever, but Just because I know it is "the way", and it is what is good and just and right, following in His ways and walking in His path, is obedience, is it not...?

And if it leads into "doing what He did", then, so be it, right...?

God Bless!

Actually, if it were possible, stopping at doing what He did is not enough, Jesus went to the Father so we could do even more on the foundation that He laid for us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is not about me at all. Careful exegesis of the Scripture shows that it does not refer to genuinely converted believers at all. The context is about false prophets. I have no issue with your comments, it is just your misapplication of Scripture to those to whom it doesn't apply.

But I’ve shown evidence that this applies to everyone.

“"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell-and great was its fall."”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:24-27‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Because Jesus begins verse 24 with the word “Therefore” which means for this reason, because of this reason, or consequently; this indicates that He is reiterating or adding onto what He had previously stated. Notice He uses the word “Everyone” in both cases of those who hear His words and act upon them and those who don’t act upon them. So His previous statements also refer to everyone and not limited to false prophets. His statement “Beware of false prophets” was followed by a means to distinguish false prophets from true believers. Even in His illustration of the trees that bear good and bad fruit He emphasizes that the message applies to all trees.

“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

In contrast to

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:17, 19-20‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Again this illustration is not limited to only false prophets. It applies to and encompasses everyone, both good and bad.

Please open your mind my friend. You are viewing the scriptures with a preconceived notion and it is hindering you from allowing the scriptures to do the teaching. If you had read this knowing nothing about the scriptures I’m certain you would’ve seen these examples that say every tree and everyone. Instead it appears you are trying to find ways to make the scriptures fit into a preconceived idea. An idea that no one in the history of Christianity ever taught for the first 1500 years after the church was established and has been refuted by the earliest church writings over and over again as far back as 180AD all the way to the present day. Don’t you believe that Jesus’ church must’ve continuously existed ever since the day it was established? Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 evil will not prevail over His church. His church was established to be a beacon of light for all people, drawing them to God. Do you believe that light was extinguished for the first 1500 years of Christianity? So many people hold Martin Luther in such high regard and it is only because of the fall of the Roman Church. The Roman Church at that time was so far away from God that just about anyone could’ve preached a different gospel and draw a huge following because the Roman Church was so despised by their actions and their teachings. The Roman Church despises the reformation when ultimately they are the ones who were responsible for it. But they were not even a part of the Catholic Church by that time anymore. They had already been kicked out in 1054AD. So many people don’t know the true history of the church and turn to Protestantism because they rightly reject Roman Catholicism. They don’t know that 4 of the 5 head ecumenical council members rejected the Roman bishop’s claim of papal supremacy and adopted the name Orthodox, meaning Traditional, as a way to distinguish themselves apart from the Roman Church. If you search the history of these churches you will find that they never engaged in any of the ungodliness that the Roman Church did or anything ungodly at all. At least nothing that I can find anywhere. Just think about this please, Jesus’ church must exist ever since the day it was established all the way until judgement day. He made a way for us and He will not forsake us. God bless.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

But I’ve shown evidence that this applies to everyone.

“"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell-and great was its fall."”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:24-27‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Because Jesus begins verse 24 with the word “Therefore” which means for this reason, because of this reason, or consequently; this indicates that He is reiterating or adding onto what He had previously stated. Notice He uses the word “Everyone” in both cases of those who hear His words and act upon them and those who don’t act upon them. So His previous statements also refer to everyone and not limited to false prophets. His statement “Beware of false prophets” was followed by a means to distinguish false prophets from true believers. Even in His illustration of the trees that bear good and bad fruit He emphasizes that the message applies to all trees.

“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

In contrast to

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:17, 19-20‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Again this illustration is not limited to only false prophets. It applies to and encompasses everyone, both good and bad.

Please open your mind my friend. You are viewing the scriptures with a preconceived notion and it is hindering you from allowing the scriptures to do the teaching. If you had read this knowing nothing about the scriptures I’m certain you would’ve seen these examples that say every tree and everyone. Instead it appears you are trying to find ways to make the scriptures fit into a preconceived idea. An idea that no one in the history of Christianity ever taught for the first 1500 years after the church was established and has been refuted by the earliest church writings over and over again as far back as 180AD all the way to the present day. Don’t you believe that Jesus’ church must’ve continuously existed ever since the day it was established? Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 evil will not prevail over His church. His church was established to be a beacon of light for all people, drawing them to God. Do you believe that light was extinguished for the first 1500 years of Christianity? So many people hold Martin Luther in such high regard and it is only because of the fall of the Roman Church. The Roman Church at that time was so far away from God that just about anyone could’ve preached a different gospel and draw a huge following because the Roman Church was so despised by their actions and their teachings. The Roman Church despises the reformation when ultimately they are the ones who were responsible for it. But they were not even a part of the Catholic Church by that time anymore. They had already been kicked out in 1054AD. So many people don’t know the true history of the church and turn to Protestantism because they rightly reject Roman Catholicism. They don’t know that 4 of the 5 head ecumenical council members rejected the Roman bishop’s claim of papal supremacy and adopted the name Orthodox, meaning Traditional, as a way to distinguish themselves apart from the Roman Church. If you search the history of these churches you will find that they never engaged in any of the ungodliness that the Roman Church did or anything ungodly at all. At least nothing that I can find anywhere. Just think about this please, Jesus’ church must exist ever since the day it was established all the way until judgement day. He made a way for us and He will not forsake us. God bless.

The genuinely converted believer is resting in Christ by faith, which has released the Holy Spirit within him to do the work of sanctification and to keep him walking in the Spirit until he gets to glory. He is trusting in the almighty, all-powerful God of the Bible to keep him in the faith and it is that power to keeps him from falling away as long as he maintains his faith in Christ alone.

Your quote may be more likely to apply to performance-based Christians who are relying on their self-effort to try and follow what they say is "the Word of God" and the "commandments of Christ", but it is all of self, because their God is a God of their imagination and not the God of the Bible who is well able to keep that we have committed to Him against that Day.

I don't know about you, but I have no fear of that quote, because I am trusting in the All-powerful God of the Bible and the Holy Spirit in me to keep me in the faith and walking in the Spirit, and when I find myself before Christ I will be telling Him that He gave me His Word and I trusted His promise that He saved me by grace, and it was never of myself or any efforts that I could have made before or after I was saved, and that I trusted His promises by faith, and happily accepted His gift of salvation, but I know that no matter what I have done in my life, I am just a poor sinner and an unprofitable servant, and that You are all in all."

 

[chilehed]

Do away with your sin...

God does it, all I do is let him.

 

[Neogaia777]

God does it, all I do is let him.

Can you explain to us how that actually happens or works...? Is it a process, and if so, can you describe that process...

Oh, and your "sinless"...?

God Bless!