Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[Grip Docility]

It was when Christian stood before the cross of Christ that the burden of his sin fell off his back and went down into a hole in the ground at the foot of the cross.

I remember when this happened to me! It wasn’t in an instant but a series of tear filled days!

The devil had me clutched more tightly than I can begin to express and I gave up! I literally gave up... it was at that moment of admission of defeat... Jesus swooped in and lit the fire! It was so indescribable and so full of Love, I literally lost touch with all the woes in my life and was fixated, effortlessly on Christ!

 

[Phil W]

Willful sin would be agonizing to the born-again believer.

1 John 3:9..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Fig trees cannot bear grapes...different seeds!

I don't believe obedience is marked by works but it's a sign of the Spirit working inside the believer.

Obedience is marked by...obedience.

We wouldn't want to displease God with our sin after we receive His love, even if we fall into temptation.

All men get tempted. Even Jesus.
The born again believe 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Thanks be to God, there are escapes from temptation.

 

[Grip Docility]

1 John 3:9..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Fig trees cannot bear grapes...different seeds!


Obedience is marked by...obedience.


All men get tempted. Even Jesus.
The born again believe 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Thanks be to God, there are escapes from temptation.

Phil,

If you speak from the Armor, why do you attempt to drive doctrine towards Carnal Obedience...?... vice surrender?

 

[Phil W]

These works come as the result of conversion to Christ, not before. A person repents, is baptised, is obedient, etc., because he is saved. An unsaved person cannot do any of these from his heart. He may go through the motions to please those around him, but he is doing them hypocritically unless he comes to Christ, puts his full trust in Him for salvation.

Got that right!

Many church members have done all these things as outward ordinances, but because their hearts remain unchanged toward Christ Himself, and have more interest in the outward forms and ceremonies, than in Christ, they are hypocrites and remain lost sinners.

Regretfully, true.

 

[Phil W]

... and I know we won’t be Sinless in the actual tent of death until Death takes us.
Hebrews 2:14 ; 2 Corinthians 5:4

The cure for subjection to a "tent" is to crucify it, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)

 

[Grip Docility]

The cure for subjection to a "tent" is to crucify it, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)

Circumcision of the flesh is not Circumcision of the heart.

 

[Phil W]

Phil,

If you speak from the Armor,

Can you clarify that phrase, please?

why do you attempt to drive doctrine towards Carnal Obedience...?... vice surrender?

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;..." (1 Tim 6:3)
I certainly hope you are not "driving doctrine" away from obedience to God.

 

[Grip Docility]

Can you clarify that phrase, please?


"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;..." (1 Tim 6:3)
I certainly hope you are not "driving doctrine" away from obedience to God.

I drive Doctrine towards surrender. Obedience is law. I smell duplicity. It’s in the air. See what happened...?

Love is the Law of Christ... I sense... a touch of duplicity... in doctrine.

I smell human works.

Do you “trip over the cat”? See, It’s not okay to speak from the Armor and subjugate man to Law.

We are surrendered to Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11:28 is what Jesus Taught. Driving doctrine from this is unwise, to say the very least.

 

[Phil W]

Circumcision of the flesh is not Circumcision of the heart.

I'm surprised you would say that, in light of "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Col 2:11)
Isn't the heart part of the body that is killed at our crucifixion with Christ? (Rom 6:6)

 

[Grip Docility]

I'm surprised you would say that, in light of "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Col 2:11)
Isn't the heart part of the body that is killed at our crucifixion with Christ? (Rom 6:6)

Still duplicitous doctrine, IMO. I sense a claim to the armor, but an eye towards the flesh.

Do you confess your sins, one to another?

 

[Grip Docility]

Christ is the Easy Yoke that REQUIRES Humility! He Hates OUR Sabbath’s... and desires us to understand He IS THE SABBATH Rest.

 

[Phil W]

I drive Doctrine towards surrender. Obedience is law. I smell duplicity. It’s in the air. See what happened...?

You don't equate surrender to God with obedience to God?
I do.

Love is the Law of Christ... I sense... a touch of duplicity... in doctrine.
I smell human works.

Which works?
Circumcision, or perhaps dietary or clothing laws?

Do you “trip over the cat”? See, It’s not okay to speak from the Armor and subjugate man to Law.

Sorry, without clarification your phraseology means nothing.

We are surrendered to Jesus Christ.

Yes, and we do all He tells us to do.
Is that "works" to you?

Matthew 11:28 is what Jesus Taught. ("Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.") Driving doctrine from this is unwise, to say the very least.

Jesus then said..."Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.{Matt 11:29-30)
Isn't a yoke used to facilitate "work"?

 

[Phil W]

Still duplicitous doctrine, IMO. I sense a claim to the armor, but an eye towards the flesh.

More code-words without an explanation?
I can't comment on the unknown.

Do you confess your sins, one to another?

What sins?
We have had supposed brothers in Christ who have confessed their sins, but they didn't hang around very long afterwards.
Darkness can't exist in the light.

 

[Grip Docility]

You don't equate surrender to God with obedience to God?
I do.


Which works?
Circumcision, or perhaps dietary or clothing laws?


Sorry, without clarification your phraseology means nothing.


Yes, and we do all He tells us to do.
Is that "works" to you?


Jesus then said..."Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.{Matt 11:29-30)
Isn't a yoke used to facilitate "work"?

Nope... you yourself used the phrase... tripping over the cat.

A mystery that one speaks from the Armor, but instead of driving the focus to Jesus, the focus is on how one OBEYS Jesus.

I sense Work of the flesh being snuck into doctrine.

I still sense genuine sinless doctrine, being disguised as Armor Of Christ. This is my mere opinion... but dishonesty doesn’t “Suit” a person.

What does “Trip over the cat mean”... and I know it was said. It could be erased from thread history, but it was there.

 

[Phil W]

Christ is the Easy Yoke that REQUIRES Humility! He Hates OUR Sabbath’s... and desires us to understand He IS THE SABBATH Rest.

Humility, to God, accommodates obedience to God.

 

[Grip Docility]

Humility, to God, accommodates obedience to God.

Magically, the closest I’ve seen to this doctrinal humility is a phrase called tripping over the Cat. There seems to be a heavy pride of self sufficiency in this doctrinal underwriting.

The Pharisees OBEYED better than most, IN THE FLESH. John 6:63

 

[fhansen]

Acts of Love... but.... This verse...

Philippians 4:19

Do you believe it? From Paul to the church of Brotherly Love. (Insert Rock Hand Emoji).

As long as I keep abiding in Him, as long as I keep wanting what He wants, and He has a way of stretching me in that area

 

[Phil W]

Nope... you yourself used the phrase... tripping over the cat.

No?
I'm surprised you don't equate surrender to God with obedience to God.
Isn't disobedience the opposite of surrender?

A mystery that one speaks from the Armor, but instead of driving the focus to Jesus, the focus is on how one OBEYS Jesus.
I sense Work of the flesh being snuck into doctrine.

Isn't obeying Jesus driving the focus to Jesus?
I thought it was.
Which works of the flesh are you talking about?
Circumcision? Dietary laws? Clothing laws? Marrying the infidels? Sabbaths and feast keeping?

I still sense genuine sinless doctrine, being disguised as Armor Of Christ. This is my mere opinion... but dishonesty doesn’t “Suit” a person.

I guess that depends on your description of "armor".
I like these two verses, in regards to "armor"...
"By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left," (2 Cor 6:11)
"Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." (Eph 6:11)
The armor of righteousness...to be able to withstand temptation.
Thanks be to God!

What does “Trip over the cat mean”... and I know it was said. It could be erased from thread history, but it was there.

It means to make a mistake that has nothing to do with being obedient to God...like mis-adding your check-book or burning the dinner, or rubbing a curb with your tires.
Something that isn't a satisfaction to our now dead lusts.

 

[Phil W]

Magically, the closest I’ve seen to this doctrinal humility is a phrase called tripping over the Cat.

How does that manifest our love of God?

There seems to be a heavy pride of self sufficiency in this doctrinal underwriting.

A seed can only bring forth after it's progenitor.
If you "sense" pride, or self anything, be assured, my pride was killed with the rest of my condemnable self when I was crucified with Christ, buried with Him and then raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
A life without pride in anything but in God and His Son Christ Jesus.

The Pharisees OBEYED better than most, IN THE FLESH. John 6:63

Aren't you glad we can walk in the Spirit now, instead of in the flesh?
Rom 8:1 addresses it..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

 

[Grip Docility]

No?
I'm surprised you don't equate surrender to God with obedience to God.
Isn't disobedience the opposite of surrender?


Isn't obeying Jesus driving the focus to Jesus?
I thought it was.
Which works of the flesh are you talking about?
Circumcision? Dietary laws? Clothing laws? Marrying the infidels? Sabbaths and feast keeping?


I guess that depends on your description of "armor".
I like these two verses, in regards to "armor"...
"By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left," (2 Cor 6:11)
"Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." (Eph 6:11)
The armor of righteousness...to be able to withstand temptation.
Thanks be to God!


It means to make a mistake that has nothing to do with being obedient to God...like mis-adding your check-book or burning the dinner, or rubbing a curb with your tires.
Something that isn't a satisfaction to our now dead lusts.

Duplicity is clear... in this doctrine.

This doctrine is missing honesty.