Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

LoveGodsWord · Jun 16, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Do you hold your flesh and the flesh of fellow Christians accountable to the 10 commandments in any form, fashion or means?

What do you think these scriptures are saying?

ROMANS 8:4 [4],That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

GALATIANS 5:16 [16], This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

ROMANS 8:13 [13] For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law

ROMANS 6:23 [23], For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hope this helps.

Grip Docility · Jun 16, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
What do you think these scriptures are saying?

ROMANS 8:4 [4],That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

GALATIANS 5:16 [16], This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

ROMANS 8:13 [13] For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law

ROMANS 6:23 [23], For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hope this helps.

What do you think this verse is saying?

Galatians 5:4

Hope this helps.

Incidentally, establishment of the law in that verse is not a reference to Carnal application of that Law.

Was the Law given on mount Sanai?

LoveGodsWord · Jun 16, 2019

Grip Docility said:
What do you think this verse is saying?

Galatians 5:4

Hope this helps.

Incidentally, establishment of the law in that verse is not a reference to Carnal application of that Law.

Was the Law given on mount Sanai?

You do not know what the scriptures posted to you mean do you? If you do not know just say so. No need to play games. I am sure we both have better things to do with our time.

Grip Docility · Jun 16, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
You do not know what the scriptures posted to you mean do you? If you do not know just say so. No need to play games. I am sure we both have better things to do with our time.

I would appreciate a yes or a no.

Do you hold your flesh and the brethren’s flesh to the Law forged on Sanai, that Paul writes about in Galatians 4?

I’m not playing games.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 16, 2019

Grip Docility said:
I would appreciate a yes or a no.

Do you hold your flesh and the brethren’s flesh to the Law forged on Sanai, that Paul writes about in Galatians 4?

I’m not playing games.

You are indeed playing games and not answering my questions that I have asked you before you have asked your questions. When you answer mine I will be happy to answer yours. Did you wish to answer my questions to you now? If not just say so. You do not have to if you do not wish to.

Grip Docility · Jun 16, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
You are indeed playing games and not answering my questions that I have asked you before you have asked your questions. When you answer mine I will be happy to answer yours. Did you wish to answer my questions to you now?

Then your answer is assumed yes... IMO... you do hold your flesh and the flesh of the brethren to the 10.

In my experience, obfuscation occurs within two back and forth forum cycles.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 16, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Then your answer is assumed yes... IMO... you do hold your flesh and the flesh of the brethren to the 10.
In my experience, obfuscation occurs within two back and forth forum cycles.

Ok I did not think you would answer my questions to you. You answering your own question is not my answer to your questions. If you did not want to answer my questions to you or cannot answer them just say so. I can understand why you do not want to answer them. Let me know when you want to talk God's Word. Only wish you all the best in the LORD JESUS.

Good bye

Grip Docility · Jun 16, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Ok I did not think you would answer my questions to you. If you did not want to answer them just say so. Let me know when you want to talk God's Word. Only wish you all the best in the LORD JESUS.

Good bye

I know Romans, by God’s Grace, enormously well. You could even say it’s etched into my very soul.

Those verses speak of Christ’s imputed Righteousness, that is not of our own, has no thing to do with our filthy flesh, exactly as Romans 4:1-6 and Ephesians 2:8-10 say.

Don’t think I forgot that the exegeting Of Galatians 4 was avoided.

One says good bye to hide their exaltation of the Stone 10, in my opinion.

Grip Docility · Jun 16, 2019

James 4:7 ; Romans 1:17 ; 1 Peter 5:8 ; 1 Corinthians 2:8

CharismaticLady · Jun 16, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
What do you think these scriptures mean that you have quoted above from DANIEL 9:24? Does JESUS save us from sin or are we saved to continue to sin *JOHN 8:31-36?

When we truly repent, as in Acts 2:38 Jesus gives us His sinless, all-powerful Holy Spirit to indwell us. We are born again of the Spirit. He empowers us by His grace to free our nature to love righteousness and hate sin.

Wordkeeper · Jun 16, 2019

eleos1954 said:
We sin and as long as we are on this earth we will sin ... it is our nature. Do you see your sin? If you can see sin ... then God sees sin as well.

When Jesus returns ... what does He see?

Revelation 22:11-21

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Everybody at His return has made their decision for Christ or not. Judgement for those in Christ has taken place before His return (1st resurrection). They/we are covered by the blood of Jesus and because of this we are seen as sinless and are reserrected as such.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

in place of the Jews? No

Ephesians 3

6 And this is God’s plan: Both Gentiles and Jews who believe the Good News share equally in the riches inherited by God’s children. Both are part of the same body, and both enjoy the promise of blessings because they belong to Christ Jesus.

in place of the Jews? No

Romans 10
New International Version
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him

Galatians 3

6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who have faith are the sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”11And it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith (in Christ).” 12The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”

13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Jews and gentiles ..... faith in Jesus

The native branches were cut off to make room for the wild branches...

fhansen said:
Wrong teachings and false gospels have done great harm to the Christian faith. Unless a person understands this verse as well as many like it, then they fail to understand God's purpose and will, not to mention His lavish love for humankind and His knowledge of the potential He made us for.

"No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him." 1 John 3:6

They were taught they only needed to be children of Abraham to become blessings to the world.

We are taught we should avoid sin.

Actually the Sin is to remain in Egypt, like Israel, Judas, Ananias and Sapphira. Joshua and Peter are the ones who are shown to have left spiritual Egypt.

You can take the man out of Egypt, but getting Egypt out of the man is something else.

Wordkeeper · Jun 16, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
When we truly repent, as in Acts 2:38 Jesus gives us His sinless, all-powerful Holy Spirit to indwell us. We are born again of the Spirit. He empowers us by His grace to free our nature to love righteousness and hate sin.

Repentance leads to joining the family of God like Israel joined Moses. Then we are fed bread from heaven, like the Syro-phoenician woman was fed bread meant for the children, great works, the works of the Holy Spirit. We are supposed to remember the great works God does so that we can decide like Joshua, to follow God instead of the world. Only those who are born again can see the Kingdom of God. Only those who are born again can enter the Kingdom.

Psalm 78:11
They forgot what He had done, the wonders He had shown them.

Psalm 106:21
They forgot God their Savior, who did great things in Egypt

Lots of people aren't born again, because they haven't been asked by their pastors to come out of Egypt, like the rich young ruler was asked.

The universal command is to hate Egypt. It is a category: it includes moral sins, but it isn't only moral sin. Egypt is a metaphor of serving mammon for treasure that rusts and perishes.

The Righterzpen · Jun 16, 2019

I'm still not sure you quite got what I was saying?

fhansen said:
..... as distinguished from a total takeover with our wills and identities done away with.

Obviously God uses / works in the personalities of the individuals who are called according to His purposes. We don't stop being unique in that regard. Even Jesus Himself possessed a personality that was forged in His individual earthly experiences.

Theologically, that aspect of our existence is not what "will enslaved to sin" in regards to human inability to respond to God; thus the statement about our wills not being "free".

fhansen said:
However due to free will we can also undermine that partnership, we can destroy it in the moral and spiritual sphere.

And yes, Scripture does talk about a believer's propensity to commit sin.

Job 15:15-17
"Behold He puts not trust in His saints. Yea, the heavens are not clean in His sight.

How much more abominable and filthy is man; who drinks iniquity like water?

I will show you; hear me and that which I have seen I will declare."

Philippians 2:13
"For it is God that works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."

So in either of these regards it is not a "partnership" as "willed freely" as you claim here.

Romans 9:21
"Has not the Potter power over the clay...."

fhansen said:
So the righteousness that God wills for man and that is ours only to the extent that He indwells us is no less a partnership, He and us.

John 15:2-5

A branch that bears no fruit is cut off; evidence that it was never connected to the vine to begin with. A branch can not bear fruit on its own. For without me you can do nothing.

That's not a "partnership". That is the response of one being dependent on the action of the other.

CharismaticLady · Jun 16, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
Lots of people aren't born again, because they haven't been asked by their pastors to come out of Egypt, like the rich young ruler was asked.

Yes there are lots of people calling themselves Christians that have never repented from their sin. There are many who believe we are freed from the law, so our sins we keep committing will not be held against us. That is a false teaching, and a mockery to the holiness of God, I'm sure you will agree.

Wordkeeper · Jun 16, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Yes there are lots of people calling themselves Christians that have never repented from their sin. There are many who believe we are freed from the law, so our sins we keep committing will not be held against us. That is a false teaching, and a mockery to the holiness of God, I'm sure you will agree.

Have you heard the call to come out of Egypt?

Hebrews 4
7He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

The Righterzpen · Jun 16, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Yes there are lots of people calling themselves Christians that have never repented from their sin. There are many who believe we are freed from the law, so our sins we keep committing will not be held against us. That is a false teaching, and a mockery to the holiness of God, I'm sure you will agree.

It does not seem to me that you understand what it means to be freed from the law; yet bound to God who is a self existent moral agent; thus compelling a believer to obedience.

Yet because a believer still has a fallen nature; they do still sin. No believer is without sin.

Romans 7:14-25
Paul explains the dichotomy of the indwelling Spirit still contending with a corrupt nature that still sins.

Phil W · Jun 16, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
Can you give some examples, maybe one from OT and another from NT of some who turned from sin and didn't go back in Scripture?

OT?
No, as those folks all lived and walked in the flesh.
NT?
No, as we have no idea of what they did after their repentances from sin until their deaths.
We would have to have their entire life story.

This verse should be a comfort to you if you are seeking a life without sin..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1Cor 10:13)
Thanks be to God!

Phil W · Jun 16, 2019

SoldierOfTheKing said:
You cannot out-sin the grace of God. There is no sin so vile that the blood of Christ cannot wash it clean.

Grace reigns by righteousness. (Rom 5:21)
No righteousness, no grace.
Do you think there is a sin more enticing than eternal life with Jesus who suffered and died for our past sins?
Choices have to be made!

Grip Docility · Jun 16, 2019

The Righterzpen said:
It does not seem to me that you understand what it means to be freed from the law; yet bound to God who is a self existent moral agent; thus compelling a believer to obedience.

Yet because a believer still has a fallen nature; they do still sin. No believer is without sin.

Romans 7:14-25
Paul explains the dichotomy of the indwelling Spirit still contending with a corrupt nature that still sins.

I always want to explain Galatians 4, cast the slave woman out... to individuals, that need to understand the importance of what you are addressing, but I fear their heads would explode if they understood what Paul is actually saying.

Phil W · Jun 16, 2019

Oscarr said:
Just make sure that you don't go into the 300 year old heresy that taught "all of Christ and none of us" which causes people to go astray by thinking that Christ was going to do everything to ensure our sanctification, and so they never tried to stop sinning.

I hear ya'.

Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

Does willful sin separate those once saved from God.

No, obedience is "works" and we are not saved by works.

Yes, willful sin must be repented from in order to stay saved.

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