Does this scripture refute OSAS? [Updated]

[yeshuaslavejeff]

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And you misrepresent these very Commands, with these silly questions.

Why do people go automatically to the furthest extreme to make their point?

Be realistic in your questions and you will begin to get the answers which will speak to the issue.

Unless the object of the discussion is, to only argue religious points, Spiritual one-ups-man-ship.

You sound like the Lawyer which insists on only Yes and No answers, attempting to control the outcome of the interrogation, by playing with words in their questions.

If you are wrong, you will continue posting as you do.

No one, not even God, will make you change, no one will coerce you to change.

All of your assumptions are wrong. That goes much deeper, of course.
Still, no one will nor can make you change .....

 

[JIMINZ]

So you don’t believe in the “do nots” in the New Testament such as Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 10:38, Matthew 25:41-46, Luke 9:26, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:10, 1 John 3:15, and the “do’s” in the NT such as Matthew 5:8, Matthew 19:17, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, John 14:15, John 15:10, Revelation 22:14?

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Mat 5:28-30
28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Don't forget Jesus said this also.
Mat. 18:8
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

I am curious as to how you manage to function without an eye, hand, foot.

 

[JIMINZ]

If you are wrong, you will continue posting as you do.

No one, not even God, will make you change, no one will coerce you to change.

All of your assumptions are wrong. That goes much deeper, of course.
Still, no one will nor can make you change .....

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The operative word in your post is IF I am wrong.

You appear to be set in your beliefs, will anyone ever change them?

I think not.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

All of your assumptions are wrong. That goes much deeper, of course.
Still, no one will nor can make you change .....


God's Word remains, as always, unchanged, unchangeable, TRUTH.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

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The operative word in your post is IF I am wrong.

You appear to be set in your beliefs, will anyone ever change them?

I think not.

GOOD !....... if you repent, and change how you think to more in line with Scripture, THEN you will change how you post !

i.e. that is one sign, one test, to see if you be becoming more righteous or if you stay as you were and be becoming more wicked.

 

[JIMINZ]

All of your assumptions are wrong. That goes much deeper, of course.
Still, no one will nor can make you change .....


God's Word remains, as always, unchanged, unchangeable, TRUTH.

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I repent of my post, never mind.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

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Careful now, your beginning to repeat yourself.

As God's Word Says,( instead of what you say)

"be careful for nothing"
AND
"it is GOOD to repeat, no problem, as a SAFEGUARD...."
(supposed to be , presumably, for you also)
"for Ekklesia, to keep from falling into / being deceived by sin" ....
too late it appears to be for you, to warn you ahead of time,
but
that doesn't mean (we pray and hope) that we should give up hope for you in God's Grace and His Mercy.....

 

[JIMINZ]

GOOD !....... if you repent, and change how you think to more in line with Scripture, THEN you will change how you post !

i.e. that is one sign, one test, to see if you be becoming more righteous or if you stay as you were and be becoming more wicked.

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Are you capable of posting without demonstrating such anger?

Why am I the one who is suppose to change the way I think?

Why is what I believe not in line with Scripture.

There isn't anything wrong with my posts, you the one who began huffing and puffing.

If you have something to say, just say it without such dramatics.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

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Are you capable of posting without demonstrating such anger?

Why am I the one who is suppose to change the way I think?

Why is what I believe not in line with Scripture.

There isn't anything wrong with my posts, you the one who began huffing and puffing.

If you have something to say, just say it without such dramatics.

Mercy, not anger. When the Prophets, Jesus, or the Apostles or the disciples spoke God's Word, it was for the salvation of the hearers, if they listened and repented.

If you don't change, you will stay the same, right ?
I don't know why you don't believe in line with Scripture .
What is wrong with your posts was pointed out by others - I merely took another perspective hoping for the best for you.
Your theatrical words - dramatic take and adjectives, only further illuminate what the others and I have been trying to tell you, so far without good results (although it may not be known for years, perhaps).

Later, for your request here, I will just point out what is wrong in your post(s), Yahweh permitting, instead of saying why or trying to show you why - I'll just point it out.

 

[thesunisout]

But I bet those supporting calvinism will say he wasn't saved. Which, of coarse is a silly statement.

Well the scripture tells us why he wasn't saved; he was cast out, and therefore lost out on his salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All you are saying is that Christ and His merits or works alone are not sufficient to save

Not true. I believe Jesus saves both in Justification and in Sanctification. Granted, I believe all three persons of the Godhead or Trinity live and work within the believer. Anyways, Jesus says we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5). God has chosen us to salvation by having a belief in the truth (Jesus) but also by sanctification of the Spirit, too.

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Anyways, what you are saying is worse. You are saying is that we can preach a message that de-emphasizes in being good for the Lord and we can even be in potential sin and still be saved. For if we do not tell people to avoid sin and we tell people all they need is the grace of Jesus (and do not worry about sin or holiness in regards to salvation), it will lead people to think they can turn God's grace into a license for immorality. It would lead a person to think they can do evil on some level and think they can be a part of God's good Kingdom (When such a place that is holy and good would be a foreign place to them). Change begins now and not later after we die. Why do you think there are all kinds of warnings in the Bible and talk for us to be holy and perfect?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

“ Forsaking sin “ is great, but nobody can do it completely. I thank God it is not the criteria for getting saved or staying saved . If you think that, you are a legalist. Possibly “ accursed”.You need to discover the true way of salvation.It demands something a human being can actually do.Simply believe 1cor15:1-4.Adding to this Gospel is very dangerous.God will be asking about how you handled it someday.Good luck.

And I can say the Eternal Security Proponent or Free Will Baptists (A Non-OSAS sin and still be saved believer) are lawless or Antinomian because they do not regard the importance of obedience to God's laws as a requirement for being right with God. This means they can break God's laws on some level with the thinking they are saved. But wouldn't God have to agree with a person's thinking that they can break God's laws with the thinking they are saved? Can God agree with disobedience? Surely not. While Jesus died for our sins, He did not somehow erase the fact that we are to be righteous or good. The key here is to see what the truth of Scripture says and what lines up with basic morality. I do not see the two above beliefs doing that. Unless you can prove otherwise (of course). So far you have not answered my points with Scripture (Which shows the weakness of your argument for what you believe to be the truth).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

.
Mat 5:28-30
28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Don't forget Jesus said this also.
Mat. 18:8
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

I am curious as to how you manage to function without an eye, hand, foot.

I have heard this argument before and it is total non-sense. Have you never spoken on a literal real level with someone and yet also use slang?

When Jesus was talking about ripping out an eye, He was using slang or metaphor. For example: I can say that guy is really cool. But if someone did not know what the word “cool” meant, they would think I was speaking literally.

Jesus was not speaking metaphorically when he said a person is in danger of hellfire. God does not joke around or when He warns us about hell. Hell is not a fantasy or metaphor.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

When you read Titus 3:5, you also have to read Titus 1:16, Titus 2:10-11 and Titus 2:14 to get a balanced perspective.

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:10-11).

“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14).

So what is Titus 3:5 saying?

It is talking about how we are initially and ultimately saved by God’s grace and the following regenerative power of the Spirit (when we surrender to the Lord).

We are not saved by man directed works but by the works of God (when we cooperate with God).



We are not saved by works alone (Ephesians 2:8-9) anymore than we are saved by faith alone (James 2:24).

In fact, if good works did not play a part in our salvation then a person could be saved even while being an axe murdering rapist. They could be like a Hiltler and murder tons of Jews and still be saved while they killed. For do you believe David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?



Right. The Law of Moses. This is what you also fail to understand. Paul was not talking about all Law (like God’s Eternal Moral Laws or the Law of Christ or New Covenant Law), but he was talking about the Law of Moses (like the OT ceremonial laws - See Colossians 2:14-17).

Paul was trying to condemn “Circumcision Salvationism.” Romans 3:1 says,

“What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?”
‭‭
Galatians 5:2 says,

“Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
‭‭
However, Paul condemned those who would break the Moral Law, though. For he said,

“But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;” (Romans 2:8-9).

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21).



When did God turn away his wrath and or judgment with the Ninevites?

If you were to re-read Jonah 3:6-10, you would discover that it was only when the Ninevites had forsaken their wicked and evil ways (sin) when God decided to turn back from His wrath or judgement.

Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

So yes. You have to confess and forsake sin to have mercy. But this would be the commands within the New Testament and not the Old Testament. Granted, the Moral Law has appeared to have carried over from the OT on into the NT, but we are New Covenant believers and not Old Covenant believers. The Law of Moses is no more.

It is evident that no matter how much and how many times Scripture is shown to refute your salvation by works/holiness/complete confession-perfection theology, yet with its false distinction btwn minor versus serious sin working death, then you just continue to preach your same damnable (Gal. 1:8) gospel.

You thus hardly interact with what i said in refutation of your delusion, in order to reiterate your mantra.

So what is Titus 3:5 saying?
It is talking about how we are initially and ultimately saved by God’s grace and the following regenerative power of the Spirit (when we surrender to the Lord).

Rather, it says "saved" as in the past and present tense, not based on our obedience, though saving justifying faith is only that which effects this, but by His mercy, by which God purifies the heart in the washing of regeneration, and imputes faith as righteousness. Thus the believer, though not perfect in character, nor having remembered and confessed every sin, washed, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

And as he was justified/saved in conversion by repentant faith, so also such remains justified via the same, in both cases all sins being forgiven to the believer whose faith is one of contrition toward all sin, even though he is not aware of all sins he has committed as a believer.

And I do not believe you have known and remembered and have confessed every sin has committed as a believer.

Nor does 1 John 5:16,17 make a distinction btwn types of sins as regards working death, for the wages of sin is death, not just grave sins, but there is "A" sin unto death, which would be the "great transgression," (Ps. 19:13) of wickedly departing from God" (2 Samuel 22:22, (which David did not do despite his sins, but repented when convicted), departing from the living God in unbelief, drawing back unto perdition, (Hebrews 3:12; 10:38,39) making Him of no effect, of not profit. (Galatians 5:1-4)

n fact, if good works did not play a part in our salvation then a person could be saved even while being an axe murdering rapist. They could be like a Hiltler and murder tons of Jews and still be saved while they killed. For do you believe David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?

Why do you keep repeating this strawman which i have reproved so many times? Again, impenitently practicing know sin is inconsistent with and a denial of saving faith, (cf. 1Timothy 5:8) thus as i before expressed, "one cannot be like a Hiltler and murder tons of Jews and still be saved while they killed."

And as also explained, good works play a part in our salvation as evidencing and thus justifying one as being a believer, showing ones faith, (James 2:18) but that cannot be the cause of justification or else one must always be perfect in performance and character to be justified, and have known, remembered and confessed every sin done as a believer.

Right. The Law of Moses. This is what you also fail to understand. Paul was not talking about all Law (like God’s Eternal Moral Laws or the Law of Christ or New Covenant Law), but he was talking about the Law of Moses (like the OT ceremonial laws - See Colossians 2:14-17).

Wrong again. Again, there is no "man directed works" or distinction btwn types of laws in the rejection of performance of works of the law (when we cooperate with God), which were still done by God's grace, and in faith that God would save then on account of their perfect performance. The law being not of faith is referring to the entire Law as the supreme system of salvation based upon performance, which is rejected, in contrast to salvation by faith.

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. (Galatians 3:6-9)

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (Galatians 3:21-22)

If any system of salvation based upon performance could saved it would be the Law, and thus both God-directed works (under the Law) as well as those of the Gentiles are rejected,as only salvation by faith, on Christ's account can render one "accepted in the Beloved" and seated with Him in Heaven," both in conversion and the conclusion of one's journey on earth, yet such faith must be one which will effect characteristic obedience and contrite confession when convicted of not doing so, not as the actual basis/cause of justification.

For again, while not able to be saved by perfectly keeping the moral law or knowing and confessing every sin, yet the moral law is not abrogated as to the obedience of faith. While one is saved by heart-purifying justifying faith, as said, such faith effects obedience (relative to the light and grace one has), to the goal that "the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:4)

As for Colossians 2:14-17, this refers to the literal observance of the ceremonial law being abrogated, but not its intent. Yet while you recognize that believers are those who live holy, that is not and cannot be the basis for their justification, unless they are perfect in character, as God is, and what you continue to do is make the effect of justifying faith as being its cause.

“Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

Which is another text wrested from its context, for it not speaking of circumcision itself being
wrong (Paul had Timotheus be circumcised: Acts 16:3), but as representing justification on the basis of their performance of the law.

Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. So yes. You have to confess and forsake sin to have mercy.

He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. (Proverbs 28:13) Yes, hiding your sins and not penitently confessing sins when convicted of them is contrary to faith, but it is faith which is penitent toward sin in general and thus penitently confesses sin that justifies one, not his level of performance (though that justifies his faith), and thus it is not and cannot require one to know and remember and confess every sin, which is what your gospel leads to.

If you cannot get this then i do not know if should take more time trying to get you to see it.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Strange ideas you have .....

Did you forsake murdering children only for a little while, or forever ?

Can you forsake having 7 wives forever, or will you start again ?

Is there anything Jesus said to do that you cannot do ? (HE SAID HIS COMMANDS are NOT BURDENSOME)

I find it strange that you think Paul’s Gospel, given to him by Jesus is strange.That was the gist of my post.Jesus said that I was to be “ perfect, even as our Father in Heaven is perfect”. Sounds “ burdensome” to me.How do you deal with that one?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I find it strange that you think Paul’s Gospel, given to him by Jesus is strange.That was the gist of my post.Jesus said that I was to be “ perfect, even as our Father in Heaven is perfect”. Sounds “ burdensome” to me.How do you deal with that one?

It is indeed and in truth burdensome to you, apparently because of unbelief.

I simply believe Jesus, what He says is always Truth, and never contradictory.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is evident that no matter how much and how many times Scripture is shown to refute your salvation by works/holiness/complete confession-perfection theology,

Okay. First, I believe:

(a) We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace. Works do not proceed God's grace and they are not how we are ultimately saved. But after a person is saved by God's grace good works (i.e. the works of God) are done through the believer and it is not the believer doing these works alone (Whereby they would wrongfully boast in their own good efforts).

(b) New Covenant believers do not seek to be justified by the Old Testament Law of Moses (Which is what Paul was also arguing against: Like circumcision, etc.). We are to follow the commands given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers.

(c) Sinless Perfection does not deal with salvation in most cases. It is in regards to putting away sins that do not lead unto death; Note: Sinless Perfection is also not an endless eternal forever state, either. For the devil was perfect in his ways until iniquity was found within him.

(d) Not all sin leads to spiritual death (1 John 5:16-17), so the idea of a Complete Confession of all sins of every kind is simply not true. Also, God will convict a believer of his sin so that they will confess it. If they are not convicted of their sin, chances are they never really had a correct heart with the Lord to begin with (Because they are justifying sin and or evil in some way). However, believers who backslide into a life of sin (i.e. who go prodigal) become spiritually dead again until they repent of their sins and come back home to the Father (by seeking forgiveness with Jesus Christ).

19 "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins." (James 5:19-20) (NKJV)

Second, Scripture does in fact teach that we are saved by God's works (done through us) after we are saved by God's grace.

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

yet with its false distinction btwn minor versus serious sin working death, then you just continue to preach your same damnable (Gal. 1:8) gospel.

Galatians 5:2 says,
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

Circumcision is a part of the Old Law and not New Testament Law.
So what Law is Paul talking about?
The Old Testament Law of Moses.
This is the kind of law Paul was against when he talks about those who seek to follow another gospel.

"But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised" (Galatians 2:3).

This is the context of the kind of gospel Paul was talking about. He was trying to refute "Circumcision Salvationism."

Paul was NOT against the Moral Law as part of God's grace.
See again Galatians 5:19-21.

Also, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 (NKJV) says,
13 "But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle."

God has chosen us for salvation from the beginning:

1. Through Sanctification by the Spirit.
2. Belief in the truth.

By which God called us by the gospel.

See, the reason Christ died for us was to make us holy

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).

 

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You thus hardly interact with what i said in refutation of your delusion, in order to reiterate your mantra.

Not true. You are not really explaining the verses I have brought forth that easily refutes your belief.

Rather, it says "saved" as in the past and present tense, not based on our obedience, though saving justifying faith is only that which effects this, but by His mercy, by which God purifies the heart in the washing of regeneration, and imputes faith as righteousness. Thus the believer, though not perfect in character, nor having remembered and confessed every sin, washed, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11) And as he was justified/saved in conversion by repentant faith, so also such remains justified via the same, in both cases all sins being forgiven to the believer whose faith is one of contrition toward all sin, even though he is not aware of all sins he has committed as a believer.

In Titus 3:5: Paul is talking about "Initial Salvation" or "Ultimate Salvation." For Paul says by his mercy he saved us. This is a one time event. Paul says that we are saved by the washing of the regeneration of the Holy Ghost. This is the new heart we were given by the Holy Spirit when we become born again after we received Christ and sought out His forgiveness (Believing in His death and resurrection for salvation). This is also a one time event. Paul is not talking about "Continued Salvation" or "Sanctification" here. Paul is trying to refute Works Alone Salvationism (Which was a part of the false pharisee religion). For they pushed believers into falsely thinking they had to be circumcised to be saved. Paul was arguing against this. But you have taken it to an extreme and want salvation to be by faith alone when James clearly says in James 2:24 that we are also justified by works and not by faith only.

And I do not believe you have known and remembered and have confessed every sin has committed as a believer.

I did not write the Bible. So it is not about believing me but it is about believing what the Bible plainly says. I am sorry, but you are not doing that. The Bible does not teach that all sin is the same.

There are three different types of sins mentioned in Scripture.

(a) Sins that lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18).

Sins unto death are sins that lead to the second death that are not repented of. Such sins would be murder, hate, whoremongering, and lying, etc. For according to Revelation 21:8, these are the type of sins that lead unto to the second death (a.k.a. Lake of Fire) (Also see Galatians 5:19-21, Colossians 3:5-6, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11). This fits the context of John's epistle because the entire epistle contrasts obedience as a part of knowing God (1 John 2:3), perfecting the love of God (1 John 2:5-6), being born of God (1 John 2:29), versus disobedience as not knowing God, not having the truth in them (1 John 2:4), in darkness (1 John 2:11), being of the devil (1 John 3:8), and not being of God (1 John 3:10). For John says that if we were to just hate our brother, that means that no eternal life abides within us (1 John 3:15). Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (like: "Do not murder," "Do not steal," Do not covet," etc.).

(b) Sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18).

Sins not unto death are sins in Revelation 21:8 that are repented of (i.e. sins that are not confessed). It's why the brethren are praying for this particular believer. For they are struggling with trying to overcome a certain sin (that they are confessing to the Lord), and their prayers and fellowship with this fellow believer will help them to gain victory by the Lord Jesus Christ. Outside of the context of 1 John 5, the Bible also mentions other kinds of sins not unto death: Like not being baptized (1 Peter 3:21), or and hidden or secret faults (Psalms 19:12).

(c) Unforgivable sins.

Unforgivable sins are sins that cannot be forgiven. These types of sins would be speaking bad words against the Holy Ghost (Matthew 12:31-32), committing suicide and staying dead (1 John 3:15) (1 Corinthians 3:16-17), and taking the mark of the beast (Revelation 14:9-10).

Conclusion:

"All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:17).

Nor does 1 John 5:16,17 make a distinction btwn types of sins as regards working death, for the wages of sin is death, not just grave sins, but there is "A" sin unto death, which would be the "great transgression," (Ps. 19:13) of wickedly departing from God" (2 Samuel 22:22, (which David did not do despite his sins, but repented when convicted), departing from the living God in unbelief, drawing back unto perdition, (Hebrews 3:12; 10:38,39) making Him of no effect, of not profit. (Galatians 5:1-4)

Are you a Free Will Baptist? Or do you deny Eternal Security and yet you believe you can sin and still be saved on some level? It sounds like you at least hold to the sin and still be saved type belief on some level because you said that a Christian does not need to confess every sin. So.... that means that a believer can abide in unrepentant sin and die in that sin and still be saved. But this would be no more than a gospel of immorality or a justifying of sin in some way.

As for your mention of 1 John 5:16-17:

Well, the sin unto death in 1 John 5:16-17 is not exclusively talking about apostasy.
Nowhere does John mention apostasy in his epistle.
However, John does mention this,

"...He that loveth not his brother abideth in death." (1 John 3:14).

Not loving your neighbor (brother) is the breaking of the Moral Law (See Romans 13:8-9).

So what is the sin NOT unto death? It is contrasted with the sin that is unto death. It is a sin that a person confesses.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9).

It's why we are told to pray for the believer who struggles with a sin (Who is confessing it). The believer who is not confessing their sin and is living like an unbeliever, John was telling the brethren that the "sin unto death" is not the topic of discussion of what he was originally talking about before. John's concern here is with praying for believers who struggle with sin and they are confessing it, whereby the are trying to overcome it (i.e. the sin that is not unto death). This helps put into perspective the sin that leads unto death (of which is the contrast).

For 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother no eternal life abides in you.
You say that not all sin needs to be confessed in order for a believer to be saved. While this is true for the new believer, it would not work for a believer who already asked the Lord into his life.
But lets say it is the sin of hating your brother? What then?

Why do you keep repeating this strawman which i have reproved so many times? Again, impenitently practicing know sin is inconsistent with and a denial of saving faith, (cf. 1Timothy 5:8) thus as i before expressed, "one cannot be like a Hiltler and murder tons of Jews and still be saved while they killed."

It's not a straw man. It's what your gospel message will lead a person into thinking if you do not explain yourself every time in the most extreme detail. For your gospel makes room for sin with the thinking one is saved because you said that a believer does not need to confess every single sin. So if you lied, big deal, right? No need to confess it. You got Jesus. You are saved! Right? Wrong! Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. So while you may think your gospel leads to people living holy, this is simply not reality of what will happen (when a person hears your message). For when you say to people not to worry about sin and just to trust in His grace, it is going to lead them to think they can turn God's grace into a doctrine for immorality on some level (Whether you want that to happen or not).

On August 4th, 2009, 48 year old George Sodini shot 9 people in a Pittsburg Pennsylvania health club. By August 6th, four people had died to include George by his own self-inflicted gunshot wound.

George Sodini, mass murderer and professed Christian Eternal Securist wrote; “Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”

Source:
http://eternalsecurity.us/george_sodini.htm

So Eternal Security or a Free Will Baptist belief (i.e. a Non-OSAS sin and still be saved gospel) is very destructive. It is the kind of belief that can lead a person to end up being a sociopath or a person who does not think their actions will truly matter to God in the end. They will think they can sin and still be saved. This is very scary stuff (and you don't even realize it).

And as also explained, good works play a part in our salvation as evidencing and thus justifying one as being a believer, showing ones faith, (James 2:18) but that cannot be the cause of justification or else one must always be perfect in performance and character to be justified, and have known, remembered and confessed every sin done as a believer.

This is like a person who had such a bad experience with gasoline that they decided to ignore that gasoline is the fuel necessary to move most cars today. They may say it is the car and the driver that moves the car and not the gas. The gas would not be inside the car without the driver. So they argue that gas is really just the after effect of the driver and it is not really the gas that moves the car.

This is essentially the same thing you are saying involving works.

The short answer is that a believer cannot be saved without good works or holiness no matter which way you slice it. For even you will admit that a Hitler would not be saved if he professed in Jesus as His Savior. So yes. Fruit is necessary. Works are a necessary part of the salvation equation. You just do not want to see that obvious fact.

Wrong again. Again, there is no "man directed works" or distinction btwn types of laws in the rejection of performance of works of the law (when we cooperate with God), which were still done by God's grace, and in faith that God would save then on account of their perfect performance. The law being not of faith is referring to the entire Law as the supreme system of salvation based upon performance, which is rejected, in contrast to salvation by faith.

No. You are the one who is wrong. Hebrews 11 talks about how faith leads to action. It is not stagnant or still. In fact, James says,

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18).

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

Can a dead faith save?
Surely not.

In other words, works are merely the by-product of a true faith.
No works, and there is no faith.
Yet, you say we are not saved by works.
Well, if your works show you your faith (according to James 2:18), then you have no faith.
Can a person with no faith be saved?
Surely not.
For without faith, it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

 

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David did not do despite his sins, but repented when convicted),

But was David saved even while he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Yes, or no?

 

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It is evident that no matter how much and how many times Scripture is shown to refute your salvation by works/holiness/complete confession-perfection theology, yet with its false distinction btwn minor versus serious sin working death, then you just continue to preach your same damnable (Gal. 1:8) gospel.

You thus hardly interact with what i said in refutation of your delusion, in order to reiterate your mantra.

Rather, it says "saved" as in the past and present tense, not based on our obedience, though saving justifying faith is only that which effects this, but by His mercy, by which God purifies the heart in the washing of regeneration, and imputes faith as righteousness. Thus the believer, though not perfect in character, nor having remembered and confessed every sin, washed, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

And as he was justified/saved in conversion by repentant faith, so also such remains justified via the same, in both cases all sins being forgiven to the believer whose faith is one of contrition toward all sin, even though he is not aware of all sins he has committed as a believer.

And I do not believe you have known and remembered and have confessed every sin has committed as a believer.

Nor does 1 John 5:16,17 make a distinction btwn types of sins as regards working death, for the wages of sin is death, not just grave sins, but there is "A" sin unto death, which would be the "great transgression," (Ps. 19:13) of wickedly departing from God" (2 Samuel 22:22, (which David did not do despite his sins, but repented when convicted), departing from the living God in unbelief, drawing back unto perdition, (Hebrews 3:12; 10:38,39) making Him of no effect, of not profit. (Galatians 5:1-4)

Why do you keep repeating this strawman which i have reproved so many times? Again, impenitently practicing know sin is inconsistent with and a denial of saving faith, (cf. 1Timothy 5:8) thus as i before expressed, "one cannot be like a Hiltler and murder tons of Jews and still be saved while they killed."

And as also explained, good works play a part in our salvation as evidencing and thus justifying one as being a believer, showing ones faith, (James 2:18) but that cannot be the cause of justification or else one must always be perfect in performance and character to be justified, and have known, remembered and confessed every sin done as a believer.

Wrong again. Again, there is no "man directed works" or distinction btwn types of laws in the rejection of performance of works of the law (when we cooperate with God), which were still done by God's grace, and in faith that God would save then on account of their perfect performance. The law being not of faith is referring to the entire Law as the supreme system of salvation based upon performance, which is rejected, in contrast to salvation by faith.

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. (Galatians 3:6-9)

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (Galatians 3:21-22)

If any system of salvation based upon performance could saved it would be the Law, and thus both God-directed works (under the Law) as well as those of the Gentiles are rejected,as only salvation by faith, on Christ's account can render one "accepted in the Beloved" and seated with Him in Heaven," both in conversion and the conclusion of one's journey on earth, yet such faith must be one which will effect characteristic obedience and contrite confession when convicted of not doing so, not as the actual basis/cause of justification.

For again, while not able to be saved by perfectly keeping the moral law or knowing and confessing every sin, yet the moral law is not abrogated as to the obedience of faith. While one is saved by heart-purifying justifying faith, as said, such faith effects obedience (relative to the light and grace one has), to the goal that "the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:4)
As for Colossians 2:14-17, this refers to the literal observance of the ceremonial law being abrogated, but not its intent. Yet while you recognize that believers are those who live holy, that is not and cannot be the basis for their justification, unless they are perfect in character, as God is, and what you continue to do is make the effect of justifying faith as being its cause.

Which is another text wrested from its context, for it not speaking of circumcision itself being
wrong (Paul had Timotheus be circumcised: Acts 16:3), but as representing justification on the basis of their performance of the law.

He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. (Proverbs 28:13) Yes, hiding your sins and not penitently confessing sins when convicted of them is contrary to faith, but it is faith which is penitent toward sin in general and thus penitently confesses sin that justifies one, not his level of performance (though that justifies his faith), and thus it is not and cannot require one to know and remember and confess every sin, which is what your gospel leads to.

If you cannot get this then i do not know if should take more time trying to get you to see it.

Another big problem I have with your belief is that a believer will just somehow magically live a holy life (as per meeting the requirement for holiness and good works). Yet, the believer is really not living holy because you said that a believer does not have to confess every sin (as a part of forgiveness or salvation). What kind of sin? All sin? No. The New Testament clearly lays out the kind of sins that can condemn us. For example: If a believer lied or lusted in their heart, they MUST confess that sin in order to be forgiven. For Jesus says that our whole body can potentially be cast into hell fire for lusting after a woman (Matthew 5:28-30) and John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8); And John says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

Also, Jesus says that if you do not forgive, the Father will not forgive you (See Matthew 6:15). Is Jesus talking to believers or unbelievers here? Well, Jesus cannot be talking to unbelievers because it would not matter if an unbeliever forgave everyone they knew. For if they did not accept Jesus as their Savior, then they would perish regardless. So Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. So this rules out any silly notion or thinking that all believers will just automatically just obey God and do the right thing in time. Yes, believers are born again and they have a new heart with new desires, but they also still have free will. It's why Jesus told us believers that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven.