Does this scripture refute OSAS? [Updated]

Chinchilla said:

Are all preachers bad ? Who is preacher ?

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No. I don't know. (in your area what is language/ meant by "preacher")
(how many you know ? see ? hear ? learn from ? )

Most are. (not all). "Preaching" for religious system, money, fame, celebrity, show, .....

instead of as written "CHRIST CRUCIFIED" (the real true good news message in SCRIPTURE). ( AND RESURRECTED NEVER TO DIE AGAIN ! )

yeshuaslavejeff said:

No. I don't know. (in your area what is language/ meant by "preacher")
(how many you know ? see ? hear ? learn from ? )

Most are. (not all). "Preaching" for religious system, money, fame, celebrity, show, .....

instead of as written "CHRIST CRUCIFIED" (the real true good news message in SCRIPTURE). ( AND RESURRECTED NEVER TO DIE AGAIN ! )

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So why wouldn't you share good news of Christ with that person dying after car accident . If you loved your neighbour as yourself you would want him to know about Jesus aswell . By not telling him about Jesus you denied his name and Jesus should deny yours before Yah.

Matthew 10:32-33 King James Version (KJV)
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Chinchilla said:

So why wouldn't you share good news of Christ with that person dying after car accident . If you loved your neighbour as yourself you would want him to know about Jesus aswell . By not telling him about Jesus you denied his name and Jesus should deny yours before Yah.

Matthew 10:32-33 King James Version (KJV)
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

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I never said I would not share the good news of CHRIST CRUCIFIED/ JESUS' SALVATION ...
I said in direct answer to your question I would not "PREACH".

"PREACH" for multitudes has deceived multitudes, and thus has for many multitudes bad results and bad connotations, not of Jesus, but other.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I never said I would not share the good news of CHRIST CRUCIFIED/ JESUS' SALVATION ...
I said in direct answer to your question I would not "PREACH".

"PREACH" for multitudes has deceived multitudes, and thus has for many multitudes bad results and bad connotations, not of Jesus, but other.

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Jesus was preacher he preached to 5000 men at once and told us to go and preach . Why couldn't you be the good preacher ?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Remember that hasatan could not have plucked Adam and Chavah(Eve)
out of Yahweh's Hand
unless Adam and Chavah by their own free will followed him.
Yahweh did not take away their free will,
nor does He take away any person's free will until they die,
except when He gives someone over (as written in His Word) to believe their own delusions.

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It was a mistake that that line got included in my comment. I intended to share a thought in reference to it in another comment, but decided not to. Somehow, when I shared a new comment, it was included. Faulty coding of this website.

Having said that, where I was going with that thought was to say Jesus said nobody could pluck us out of His hand. But that doesn't mean we don't have the free will to depart from the faith. We always have a choice. We remain saved for as long as we abide in Christ.

Chinchilla said:

Jesus was preacher he preached to 5000 men at once and told us to go and preach . Why couldn't you be the good preacher ?

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Maybe this is semantics/ a language barrier - difference.
Even a "good" preacher, if there is one, would not "preach" to a dying man in the situation you described. He/ I would speak the words Yahweh gives to speak at the moment (as should be any moment, any time, including when going before a judge in court trial).

JakeyB123 said:

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

My beloved brothers and sisters, please do not be deceived by false doctrine.
Please, draw near to God by faith through the Spirit and listen to his voice.
For he is gentle and humble and he will teach you all you need to know.
He has moved so much in my life and a lot today and I have gained much understanding. Any disobedient and careless act can bring us to another unholy deed that can lead to many more. We are to workout our salvation. We are to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
My beloved brothers and sisters, please search the word of truth for yourself, do not listen to any website, family member, or church, but listen to the true word of God that liveth and abideth for ever. Please do not deny Jesus but allow him to speak to you.
Please before you read or answer below, take some time to humble yourself, draw near to God by faith, to be in the Spirit.
I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.
May Jesus abundantly bless you with his knowledge, and many many miracles that worketh mightily in those who abideth in him. Praise the Lord!

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That is a good way to ask us to be thoughtful and certain, but if we answer with the commitment of Love and Faith then we have already thought this through.

Well, I guess that if you as a Catholic you will get an answer proffered by the Church of Rome. That will be that OSAS is bunk and the Protestants are wrong. If you ask a Baptist at our church and at the church down the road you will get some different answers but they will still be on the side of OSAS. Jehovah's witness, different answer. All of these different answers are from people trying to own the Word of God.

I realized one day that the Bible is not the LAW of God. That was given to the Jews in the early days. The Bible is the LOVE of God, and it is intended for ALL of us then, since, before, and for us today and tomorrow. And not just some of it, but ALL of it. There are many people who want to own the Word of God and give it back to only those who agree with them. Well, I tell you that God's Word (the Bible) and the offer of salvation belongs to the youngest and to the most feeble. Salvation belongs to the most uneducated shepherd and to the most learned scholar equally. As to which, I follow the King James for several reasons but mostly because I have seen the moving of the Holy Spirit in it where I have not experienced in others. But that is me. As far as I am concerned it is the Word, unadulterated. And if it is not, it is still the most sufficient Word to live every day of my life as a husband, a father, a grandfather, a man, and especially as a Christian.

The Bible was given to us for many reasons but also to work out one idea. Do we live to justify or do we justify to live? Are we slaves to God or are we to choose God of our own volition? He gave us His word in written form in order to help understand Him. To understand how much He loves us by showing how important the sacrifice he made for us was. We who care, we understand that HE is three and that we have been shown God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. God the Holy Spirit is asking to be invited into your life. If you accept God the Father in the name of God the Son, you have answered God the Holy Spirit. If you live to Love God, even though you are human (meaning that you sin, you will continually sin, you cannot stop sinning) and you do repent (that simply means that you do not love sinning but you love the Lord and you are regretful when you sin) then you have chosen God, and not Man and not Satan.

God does not take living away from us. He gave us back life abundantly through the ability to be repentant - and that was placed in the hands of Jesus, Gods ONLY begotten Son. Otherwise we would be useless to our earthly family and useless to our spiritual family. We would be spending all of our time either being an expert sinner, or being a resentful Christian. No, let us be of earthly good by being in tune in to the spiritual desires of our Lord and then living them out; not to just be sayers of the word, but let's be DOERS of the Word. Listen, If you have accepted Jesus as your Savior, and you repent of the sins you committed and you live your life being repentant, and you seek to make your profession of faith public through baptism, then you already are in God's family.

So, who can pluck you away from the most powerful Father in the entire existence of all we can see? Who? Well it seems that a lot of people THINK they can but Jesus had a different message. That message is in the Bible for you to find and it isn't hate. It isn't retribution. Still, as much as you desire to be sinless and perfect like Jesus on earth you can't be. Sorry, but He already owns that title. He was the only perfect man to walk the earth. (He had to be in order to be worthy of standing is as the one and only sacrifice for all of the world.) Besides, you were also warned of your status as a sinner. Do you remember "for all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God."? That said - do you think you can change the Word of God and not be a sinner? Ever? Whoa! Stop! That, in itself, is a sin so there is your answer?

And that verse is just like all of the verses in the Bible. It was aimed at the people 2000 years ago, at all of those who lived before, and since, and that includes you today with this reminder. You are a sinner. Admit it and give it to God and go about your life with Love for him first and foremost.

That is not a duty. It is an act of love and it is just as valid yesterday, today, and tomorrow. It will also be considered by God in His relation to all of mankind the minute of as well as the minute after the Rapture. But the question you need to answer is this. Will you stand there wrapped up in your own guilt and fear of trusting Christ. Will you be all like, "woe is me, I am a bad person"? Is that where you are going to live the rest of your life/ Are you going to do that in spite of the fact that the Father and Son tell you to be bold in your salvation?

WILL you be useless to the rest of the world, or, will you trust God's Word? Will you put on the coat of redemption and give the cloak of your own sins to Jesus? Will you hand the cloak to him be free of those sins and will you walk the walk and talk the talk of having been saved by the perfect blood of the only perfect sacrificial lamb?

You are not alone. Millions of people just like you are trying to do the same thing every minute of every day in the world. And like them you can walk next to Jesus, you can follow Him, you can take off His sandals and wipe the dryness and sores away with your tears, and you can anoint his head with oil as is the next man expected to. You can also do all of those things to and for each other - in HIS name. But you can't BE Him. Praise God!

Stop trying to be. You can strive to be like him but you are not going to BE Him. You are, we are, the world is - all of us are sinners. But Jesus took the power of those sins away and gave you the promise of eternal life and he said, nobody can take that gift away from you. Nobody! It is My gift to You. Nobody in spirit or flesh heaven or earth owned that gift but me. It was Mine to give and I made the sacrifice. I paid the price for you and I give it to you freely. And I tell you that no man nor woman, no spirit nor lie can take my gift away from you. Take it, own it, and hold it dear to you because it is yours and nobody elses. Praise God!

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Maybe this is semantics/ a language barrier - difference.
Even a "good" preacher, if there is one, would not "preach" to a dying man in the situation you described. He/ I would speak the words Yahweh gives to speak at the moment (as should be any moment, any time, including when going before a judge in court trial).

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So going around and just telling everybody that Christ was crucified and rose from dead would be bad idea ? Only when God wanted to speak through us and give us words then we should speak to others ?

bcbsr said:

It says it right in the verse. You might want to apply some basic reading comprehension skills.

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

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Using 1 John 2 19 does not prove OSAS. What about 1 Timothy 4:1 that says some will DEPART from faith. OSAS supporters, especially Calvinists, who say that people who seem to have departed from the faith were never really in the faith, don't realize its like saying that you have departed from Miami when you have never been to Miami. How can you have departed from Miami when you have never really been there to begin with?

Chinchilla said:

So going around and just telling everybody that Christ was crucified and rose from dead would be bad idea ? Only when God wanted to speak through us and give us words then we should speak to others ?

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Now it is obviously semantics/ language barrier or something else.

See? No it would not be bad idea - only most often it is NOT PREACHING.

Yes, only when God wants us to speak should we speak - EVERY WORD we speak is to be as from God, (as written, as He Says should be),
and every action shoud be as from God, by faith always, DOing His Word/ His Will, all the time in life, all the time, not sometimes.

SaintCody777 said:

Using 1 John 2 19 does not prove OSAS. What about 1 Timothy 4:1 that says some will DEPART from faith. OSAS supporters, especially Calvinists, who say that people who seem to have departed from the faith were never really in the faith, don't realize its like saying that you have departed from Miami when you have never been to Miami. How can you have departed from Miami when you have never really been there to begin with?

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Let's say I'd like to become unborn again to visit Hell as my place for eternity , how can I do that ? When would I know for sure that I become unborn again and for sure I won't make it to heaven .

woobadooba said:

It was a mistake that that line got included in my comment. I intended to share a thought in reference to it in another comment, but decided not to. Somehow, when I shared a new comment, it was included. Faulty coding of this website.

Having said that, where I was going with that thought was to say Jesus said nobody could pluck us out of His hand. But that doesn't mean we don't have the free will to depart from the faith. We always have a choice. We remain saved for as long as we abide in Christ.

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So consequently “something” is plucking you out of His hand. If your will is being moved to go astray, is there not something or someone influencing your desires?

Chinchilla said:

Let's say I'd like to become unborn again to visit Hell as my place for eternity , how can I do that ? When would I know for sure that I become unborn again and for sure I won't make it to heaven .

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I think it is totally against the rules of this site to explain when someone specifically is not born again.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I think it is totally against the rules of this site to explain when someone specifically is not born again.

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Ok then how can I know for sure that I lost my salvation . What would cause me to lose salvation ?

vinsight4u said:

That said as to the timing of Matthew 25....Once Saved, Always Saved - is wrong. You must stay a believer. In the time of the great tribulation we are told - many will fall away...the church will still be here - and dying for her faith.
Anyone in the church - a Christian -that takes the mark of the beast -is lost for eternity.

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Hebrews 6:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



Why do we think Jesus said daily to pray

Matthew 6
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.





We forget there are many Scriptures where the prophets told people what they wanted to hear , we are no different . Why on earth would any do anything if they thought OSAS.
Thanks for question

Chinchilla said:

Ok then how can I know for sure that I lost my salvation . What would cause me to lose salvation ?

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You might not have to do anything. Jesus says that anyone who is not hearing His Voice , anyone who is not following the good shepherd (Jesus),
but is following another (any other), is not His sheep.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

You might not have to do anything. Jesus says that anyone who is not hearing His Voice , anyone who is not following the good shepherd (Jesus),
but is following another (any other), is not His sheep.

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He says aswell that if you believe you have eternal life so how can it be both ?

1 John 5:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.


Are you serving him just to have chance of having eternal life or can you know that you will have eternal life and that he will rise you from dead ?

Chinchilla said:

He says aswell that if you believe you have eternal life so how can it be both ?

1 John 5:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.


Are you serving him just to have chance of having eternal life or can you know that you will have eternal life and that he will rise you from dead ?

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Again there is an obvious language barrier.
Do you see the difference between the first line in your post, and
what you quoted from 1 John ? (the difference between "believe" vs "hath the Son" ? )

Remember even the demons "believe", and shudder in TERROR because they know their judgment is final.
Also many false religions/ cults/ sects "believe", and should be terrified, because they fail, and don't find out until judgment day when Jesus tells them "be gone".

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Again there is an obvious language barrier.
Do you see the difference between the first line in your post, and
what you quoted from 1 John ? (the difference between "believe" vs "hath the Son" ? )

Remember even the demons "believe", and shudder in TERROR because they know their judgment is final.
Also many false religions/ cults/ sects "believe", and should be terrified, because they fail, and don't find out until judgment day when Jesus tells them "be gone".

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Ok I repair it .

John 3:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Chinchilla said:

Ok I repair it .

John 3:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

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Okay , I think you are really trying. The Promise of Yahweh in Scripture is that we know, because of the spirit HE PUTS IN US when we are born again by HIS WILL.
We have perfect peace and joy without measure (immeasurable, unending, that cannot be taken from us) , and righteousness, as HE SAYS, in Jesus our Savior, the Messiah.