Does the resurrected Christ have a body?

[mark53]

To say that God and Jesus has a physical body and that resurrection entails a physical one is pushing it a bit.
Firstly, in those days believing in a flat earth enabled pysical bodies on earth, below the earth and above the earth (heaven). Telescopes have not seen any floating bodies up there. This view would also deny God as being everywhere as a physical body can't be.
Secondly, What is resurrection? Can't it be a spiritual one?!

Just re-inforcing my earlier point. Bible passages talking about a physical body after resurrection MUST have also belief in a flat earth with heaven a physical place above us! Because where does the physcial body go to. If Jesus physicall ascended into heaven at the speed of light (how could he breathe in space!) he would be somewhere near the end of our galaxy.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Just re-inforcing my earlier point. Bible passages talking about a physical body after resurrection MUST have also belief in a flat earth with heaven a physical place above us! Because where does the physcial body go to. If Jesus physicall ascended into heaven at the speed of light (how could he breathe in space!) he would be somewhere near the end of our galaxy.

Planting of Heaven and earth

In describing what took place after God parted the sea and brought the Hebrew people out of Egypt;
Isiah 51:16

And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’
Notice how God describes the deliverance of the Hebrews out of Egypt, and the Giving of the Law as the planting of heavens and earth

The creation of Heavens and Earth in Isaiah 51:16 can not be referring to physical creation, for that had already occurred long before God brought Israel out of Egypt.

God brought the Jews into the wilderness, formed them into a covenant nation, firmly establishing them as His people.

God called that process the “Planting of Heaven and earth”
This is the very same planting of Heaven and earth the Writer of Hebrews is referring to when referring to it’s destruction. The end is the destruction of the “Heavens and earth”, of old covenant Judaism, that God created after He parted the sea.

Based on the fact that the scriptures teach again and again and again that the Kingdom, and the generations of man, and the earth it’s self are all to continue “forever” (Ps. 104:5; 145:13; Eccl. 1:4; Dan. 4:3,34; 7:14,18,27; Lk. 1:33; Eph. 3:21) , the conclusion that the “heaven and earth” that Jesus & the apostles all taught was coming to an end was indeed the “heaven and earth” of operational Biblical Judaism, is the only conclusion that rests in harmony with the rest of scripture.

 

[DjDan]

Just re-inforcing my earlier point. Bible passages talking about a physical body after resurrection MUST have also belief in a flat earth with heaven a physical place above us! Because where does the physcial body go to. If Jesus physicall ascended into heaven at the speed of light (how could he breathe in space!) he would be somewhere near the end of our galaxy.

eh? Firstly, we do not understand the laws of heaven. How did Christ create the world? how did he perform miracles? How this... how that... etc. etc. However.. one thing that we do know (and should accept) is the doctrine of the resurrection. Christ taught that all would be resurrected, and he himself appeared as a resurrected being. NEVER did he say that he would be a spirit again after his resurrection.... NEVER did he say that his resurrection was on a temporary basis... so why should we assume such?

and what are u talking about... saying that a belief in the physical resurrection must also be linked to a belief in a flat earth?

 

[Ran77]

Just re-inforcing my earlier point. Bible passages talking about a physical body after resurrection MUST have also belief in a flat earth with heaven a physical place above us! Because where does the physcial body go to. If Jesus physicall ascended into heaven at the speed of light (how could he breathe in space!) he would be somewhere near the end of our galaxy.

That assumes that Jesus travels in a conventional way at the speed of light. As my limited understanding of "string theory" permits, I believe that there are methods of stepping out of our three dimensions here and then stepping back in anywhere in existence in a matter of moments. How many other possibilites could exist that are beyond our current understanding.

It also assumes that Jesus would need to breathe in space, or that he would ever actually need to enter into that part of physical existence. Is Jesus, as God, bothered by the affects of vacuum?

I don't see these as proof, by means of logic, that jesus lacks a physical body.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Verses 44-49 discuss natural bodies and spiritual bodies. I would guess that you would attempt to defend your position by stating that in the resurrection that spiritual bodies equates with being spirits without physical bodies, but I believe that would be a misread of the text. Verse 47 talks about the first man being of the Earth and the second man being of heaven. Can we be men without bodies – wouldn’t we then be spirits? It indicates that we can expect a different kind of body, perhaps one not subject to the temptations of our mortal shells. Man of Earth to man of Heaven; there is a correlation being drawn here. Our bodies will mirror our existence. Corrupt and weak bodies are our lot in this existence because of the corrupt and weak nature of it. In heaven, the immortal and glorious existence there will be reflected in our new bodies.

Verse 51 explains that some men will change in a twinkling of an eye. They will die and be resurrected instantly.

In verses 53 through 56 it talks about immortality and how it relates to the conquering of death. Specifically I draw attention to the phrase “O death where is thy sting.” There is no sting of physical death because the resurrection rescues us from the separation of our spirits from our physical bodies. This comment is placed after all men will have received the resurrection. If it were to apply to spiritual death then it would mock the judgment that will take place and the very real death that it represents.

When it talks about the mortal putting on immortality we are talking specifically about a physical aspect. Our spirits are already immortal it is only our frail Earthly bodies that are not. The verse is talking about that portion of us which can die being made so that it no longer can do so. Immortality as opposed to Eternal Life (which is life with God). Immortality through resurrection, made possible by Christ rising from the dead (the body of Christ in the sacrament) is the message of physical salvation.

I beleive that every person who is or has been a believer in the past now have a spiritual glorified body.

Since AD 70 the OC body or house of Moses came to an end with all scripture being fulfilled. The old heaven and earth passed away.

Since then all believers share a part in the body or house of Christ. That is our spiritual body and it will live forever, it can walk through walls and fly from one end of the earth to the other at the speed of light.

When your physical body dies it just goes back to the earth from where it came but our spiritual body which is from the new heaven lives forever.

Our physical bodies will never be able to walk through walls and fly from one end of the earth to the other at the speed of light.

This way of believing is hyper futurism and is equal to believing pigs can fly. Now ain't that the truth.

Hebrews 3:1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, * 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also [was faithful] in all His house. * 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. * 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things [is] God. * 5 And Moses indeed [was] faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken [afterward,] * 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. *

 

[Reazzurro90]

The topic of which I am planning may diverse into multiple topics (all relating to the same)... but just for starters:

Does the resurrected Christ have a physical body?


Please explain to me the 'Christian' (and I use the word loosely... because it is a very loose one!!) teaching on this doctrine.

Thanx.

He most certainly does. Let's check out the scriptures:

“For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.” (Colossians 2:9)

Paul here explains that Paul lives in the bodily form. He IS in a body right now, as we speak.

 

[Hidden Manna]

He most certainly does. Let's check out the scriptures:

“For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.” (Colossians 2:9)

Paul here explains that Paul lives in the bodily form. He IS in a body right now, as we speak.

That scripture was speaking of Paul ?

I thought it was speaking of Christ that all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.

Next question, did bodily form mean corporate body as in spiritual worldwide Church or same physical human body Christ had whileon earth. And if you say physical then what cloud is He sitting on up there and why is He sitting there for such a long time?

And is this clould in Heb.12 and cloud in the sky or is it spiritual people who know Him.

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses

 

[Ran77]

I don't see how your post responds to anything that you quoted from me. That's okay, I'll just briefly respond to yours.

I beleive that every person who is or has been a believer in the past now have a spiritual glorified body.

It's fine by me if you want to believe that. My belief differs in that everyone that has, or will, exist on Earth will have a glorified physical body.

Since AD 70 the OC body or house of Moses came to an end with all scripture being fulfilled. The old heaven and earth passed away.

That would mean that the millenium has come and gone. Which numerically doesn't seem possible. The millenium is the second coming of Christ and would have to happen after the first. If only seventy years has passed that seems hardly enough time to permit the occurances described in Revelations. I am sure there are plenty more scriptures that have not been fulfilled - like the end of the Earth and the final judgement - but that should suffice to point out that this statement is inaccurate.

Since then all believers share a part in the body or house of Christ. That is our spiritual body and it will live forever, it can walk through walls and fly from one end of the earth to the other at the speed of light.

Isn't the body of Christ the congregation that follows Him? If so, how can our body be the congregation? Will we be part of some hive mind in the next life? Perhaps synapses of some greater being and not entities of our own right?

Maybe you could explain this a little better.

When your physical body dies it just goes back to the earth from where it came but our spiritual body which is from the new heaven lives forever.

Not based on what I provided in my post. Show me scripture that supports your claim.

Our physical bodies will never be able to walk through walls and fly from one end of the earth to the other at the speed of light.

Are you talking about our mortal bodies or our exalted physical bodies? If the latter, please show me some evidence to support your claim. Anything in the scriptures that indicates this?

As a side note, I have never claimed that we would ever be able to walk through wall or fly at the speed of light. Is there a reason you challenged me on this point?

This way of believing is hyper futurism and is equal to believing pigs can fly. Now ain't that the truth.

What way of believing is hyper futurism?

 

[Hidden Manna]

I don't see how your post responds to anything that you quoted from me. That's okay, I'll just briefly respond to yours.

I've tried to do the quoting thing but I have not yet learned how to respond the way you and most others here do. I wish someone would show me how to in the meantime I'll stick with the method I'm use to until I find out how, if you know what I mean.

 

[Deraj]

I've tried to do the quoting thing but I have not yet learned how to respond the way you and most others here do. I wish someone would show me how to in the meantime I'll stick with the method I'm use to until I find out how, if you know what I mean.

Press quote at bottom of post to make simple quote. To make more complicated quotes you have to do this manually. To make the start of a quote manually, you have to write "

".
Hope you understand this quick tutorial

 

[Hidden Manna]

That would mean that the millenium has come and gone. Which numerically doesn't seem possible. The millenium is the second coming of Christ and would have to happen after the first. If only seventy years has passed that seems hardly enough time to permit the occurances described in Revelations. I am sure there are plenty more scriptures that have not been fulfilled - like the end of the Earth and the final judgement - but that should suffice to point out that this statement is inaccurate.

The Preterist 1000 years

The Preterist generally takes the position that the “Thousand Years” or Millennium is that 40 year transition period between 26 A.D (Christ’s ministry) and 66 A.D. (The beginning of the Jewish War). The Millennium is marked by the binding of Satan in Christ’s earthly ministry and consummated in the destruction of Jerusalem. This was that period when the Old Covenant was dying as the New Covenant was maturing. The New Covenant finally reached it’s fullness at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. when the Lord came in judgment and rewarded those faithful saints who were eagerly awaiting His Parousia (Matt. 16:27-28). This marks the passing away of the old “Heavens and Earth” (Rev. 21/Old Covenant) and the bringing in of the “New Heavens and Earth” (Rev.22/New Covenant).

The New Covenant is an everlasting covenant that will never end. Satan was defeated (Rom 16:20), death (spiritual) was destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26) and complete salvation accompanied Christ at his second coming (Hebrews 9:28).

The “Thousand Years” is to be understood as a perfect number of years rather than a quantitative amount of years. The “end” or “last days” marked the end of old covenant Israel or the “last days” of the sacrificial system and the beginning of the new covenant Church. The Bible speaks about the “time of the end” and NOT the “end of time”. There is a BIG difference.

You need to get a copy of Ed Stevens audio tape series concerning “The Thousand Years”. You will find that this was a very big topic amongst the Hebrew Rabbi of the first century. Ed documents this very well. In studying Midrash and the Mishnah you will find many first century Rabbi referring to this period as “The days of Messiah”. This was a BIG topic of the day. They called this period “The Thousand Years” because many Rabbi thought that it might be a literal 1000 years but no longer. Many though, believed that this was a 40 year period and reflected the 40 year wilderness wandering of Israel. So, it came to be known as “The Thousand Years” doctrine. A first century Jew has a much better grasp on these things than a 20th century western individual. The Hebrew culture has much symbolism when dealing with prophetic literature.

The thousand years, or millennium I believe is a symbolic number that represented a period of very short duration, and so bring the whole (of the book of Revelation) within the prescribed

The act of binding and shutting up the dragon does indeed represent a ‘short period of time. In both Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter. 3:8 the designation “a thousand years” is clearly likened to a short period of time. For David “a thousand years in Thy sight are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night”.

The night watch was divided by three each consisting of about three hours. This short period, taken along with “yesterday when it passes by”, and also Peters’ declaration that “with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” should be sufficient grounds for allowing the a short period.

And there is Luke 21:22 (For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled”) as saying that all prophecy in the Bible was to be fulfilled by A.D. 70. If this is true (which it isn’t) then the Another important point that needs to be made about must fit in before AD 70 even though futurist don’t believe the context of Revelation allow for it. .

John received the Revelation, having begun in the past with the “binding of the strong Man (Matt 12:29;Cf. Rev. 20:1) continue until his shortly future release from the Abyss (Matt. 12:43-45:Rev. 20:7) to the “great tribulation” (Matt. 24:21), and the Jewish war to the second coming was the completion of the millennium. Hence John wrote of “the things which must shortly take place.

During this time Jesus sat upon His throne (cf. Rev. 3:21) and those who followed him were “seated with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:6). Prior to A.D. 70, it is clearly stated that the disciples were seated upon thrones (Eph. 2:6), therefore the time of their “coming to life” and “reigning with Him” during the millennium (Rev. 20:4) John was looking back to a “coming to life” and “reign” that began, for the saints” “with Christ” from the beginning of his Messianic mission (A.D. 30) not it’s consummation (A.D. 70).

John, in Rev. 20:4 was relating what he “saw”. He saw two groups of individuals, some who sat on thrones and some who were beheaded, having “not worshiped the beast or his image“. With regard to both groups of individuals it is said that they “came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years”.

There is another important point that needs to be clearly pointed out. Just because the millennium ended in 70 AD does not mean the saints stop reigning with Christ.

To begin with, the author of Hebrews said that “the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens...” (Heb. 8:1 see also Col. 3:1). Prior to A.D. 70, the author declared Jesus, the Great High Priest to have already (has, past tense) “taken his seat”. He was currently sitting on the throne of His glory prior to the parousia in A.D. 70

Based on these passages it cannot be maintained that Christ is not seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens now. Since this is the case, then it cannot be maintained that the saints do not reign with Christ after AD 70. Since Christ our Great High Priest was already reigning on His throne of Majesty in the heavens so were the saints.

The ultimate fulfillment of their “reigning with Christ” is not that which was received in pre-consummated form during the millennium but that which was received in the new heaven and new earth in consummation. It is clear that the reign of the saints during the millennium was to be acted out during a limited and temporary time period (a thousand years). However, all the fulfillment of the promises are found during the new heaven and earth. For it is there that it is said, “and they shall reign forever and ever” (Rev. 22:5).

The distinction between the reign of the saints “for a thousand years” and the reign of the saints “forever and ever” is seen here. The reign of the first century saints however taking place during the time period of (the last days of the old covenant age) and the other is eternal (the eternal new covenant age). The eternal reign of the saints started at the parousia. The saints, at the parousia, then entered into the eternal age of the new covenant where the things to come, during the last days/millennium, were fulfilled by means of the “consummation of the age” (Matt. 24:3). The age to come refers to every aspect of the new covenant creation, the “new heaven and earth where righteousness dwells” (2Pet. 3:13), including the eternal reign of the saints with their risen Lord.

 

[Ran77]

The Preterist 1000 years

The Preterist generally takes the position that the “Thousand Years” or Millennium is that 40 year transition period between 26 A.D (Christ’s ministry) and 66 A.D. (The beginning of the Jewish War). The Millennium is marked by the binding of Satan in Christ’s earthly ministry and consummated in the destruction of Jerusalem. This was that period when the Old Covenant was dying as the New Covenant was maturing. The New Covenant finally reached it’s fullness at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. when the Lord came in judgment and rewarded those faithful saints who were eagerly awaiting His Parousia (Matt. 16:27-28). This marks the passing away of the old “Heavens and Earth” (Rev. 21/Old Covenant) and the bringing in of the “New Heavens and Earth” (Rev.22/New Covenant).

The New Covenant is an everlasting covenant that will never end. Satan was defeated (Rom 16:20), death (spiritual) was destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26) and complete salvation accompanied Christ at his second coming (Hebrews 9:28).

The “Thousand Years” is to be understood as a perfect number of years rather than a quantitative amount of years. The “end” or “last days” marked the end of old covenant Israel or the “last days” of the sacrificial system and the beginning of the new covenant Church. The Bible speaks about the “time of the end” and NOT the “end of time”. There is a BIG difference.

You need to get a copy of Ed Stevens audio tape series concerning “The Thousand Years”. You will find that this was a very big topic amongst the Hebrew Rabbi of the first century. Ed documents this very well. In studying Midrash and the Mishnah you will find many first century Rabbi referring to this period as “The days of Messiah”. This was a BIG topic of the day. They called this period “The Thousand Years” because many Rabbi thought that it might be a literal 1000 years but no longer. Many though, believed that this was a 40 year period and reflected the 40 year wilderness wandering of Israel. So, it came to be known as “The Thousand Years” doctrine. A first century Jew has a much better grasp on these things than a 20th century western individual. The Hebrew culture has much symbolism when dealing with prophetic literature.

The thousand years, or millennium I believe is a symbolic number that represented a period of very short duration, and so bring the whole (of the book of Revelation) within the prescribed

The act of binding and shutting up the dragon does indeed represent a ‘short period of time. In both Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter. 3:8 the designation “a thousand years” is clearly likened to a short period of time. For David “a thousand years in Thy sight are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night”.

The night watch was divided by three each consisting of about three hours. This short period, taken along with “yesterday when it passes by”, and also Peters’ declaration that “with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” should be sufficient grounds for allowing the a short period.

And there is Luke 21:22 (For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled”) as saying that all prophecy in the Bible was to be fulfilled by A.D. 70. If this is true (which it isn’t) then the Another important point that needs to be made about must fit in before AD 70 even though futurist don’t believe the context of Revelation allow for it. .

John received the Revelation, having begun in the past with the “binding of the strong Man (Matt 12:29;Cf. Rev. 20:1) continue until his shortly future release from the Abyss (Matt. 12:43-45:Rev. 20:7) to the “great tribulation” (Matt. 24:21), and the Jewish war to the second coming was the completion of the millennium. Hence John wrote of “the things which must shortly take place.

During this time Jesus sat upon His throne (cf. Rev. 3:21) and those who followed him were “seated with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:6). Prior to A.D. 70, it is clearly stated that the disciples were seated upon thrones (Eph. 2:6), therefore the time of their “coming to life” and “reigning with Him” during the millennium (Rev. 20:4) John was looking back to a “coming to life” and “reign” that began, for the saints” “with Christ” from the beginning of his Messianic mission (A.D. 30) not it’s consummation (A.D. 70).

John, in Rev. 20:4 was relating what he “saw”. He saw two groups of individuals, some who sat on thrones and some who were beheaded, having “not worshiped the beast or his image“. With regard to both groups of individuals it is said that they “came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years”.

There is another important point that needs to be clearly pointed out. Just because the millennium ended in 70 AD does not mean the saints stop reigning with Christ.

To begin with, the author of Hebrews said that “the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens...” (Heb. 8:1 see also Col. 3:1). Prior to A.D. 70, the author declared Jesus, the Great High Priest to have already (has, past tense) “taken his seat”. He was currently sitting on the throne of His glory prior to the parousia in A.D. 70

Based on these passages it cannot be maintained that Christ is not seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens now. Since this is the case, then it cannot be maintained that the saints do not reign with Christ after AD 70. Since Christ our Great High Priest was already reigning on His throne of Majesty in the heavens so were the saints.

The ultimate fulfillment of their “reigning with Christ” is not that which was received in pre-consummated form during the millennium but that which was received in the new heaven and new earth in consummation. It is clear that the reign of the saints during the millennium was to be acted out during a limited and temporary time period (a thousand years). However, all the fulfillment of the promises are found during the new heaven and earth. For it is there that it is said, “and they shall reign forever and ever” (Rev. 22:5).

The distinction between the reign of the saints “for a thousand years” and the reign of the saints “forever and ever” is seen here. The reign of the first century saints however taking place during the time period of (the last days of the old covenant age) and the other is eternal (the eternal new covenant age). The eternal reign of the saints started at the parousia. The saints, at the parousia, then entered into the eternal age of the new covenant where the things to come, during the last days/millennium, were fulfilled by means of the “consummation of the age” (Matt. 24:3). The age to come refers to every aspect of the new covenant creation, the “new heaven and earth where righteousness dwells” (2Pet. 3:13), including the eternal reign of the saints with their risen Lord.

Thanks for the response. However, I am convinced that at no time in our history so far has satan been chained. Sin and evil have been ever-present since they were introduced. An event of such magnitude would have be better documented among the apostles if it had occured.

I believe there are many contradictions between what you have stated and what is written in the Bible. Still, I appreciate your taking the time to explain them to me.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Thanks for the response. However, I am convinced that at no time in our history so far has satan been chained. Sin and evil have been ever-present since they were introduced. An event of such magnitude would have be better documented among the apostles if it had occured.

I believe there are many contradictions between what you have stated and what is written in the Bible. Still, I appreciate your taking the time to explain them to me.

The binding and loosing of Satan
The term “thousand years” must be understood as an apocalyptic reference to the throne of Christ as King over Israel. The “millennium” mentioned in Revelation 20:4 must be interpreted in a symbolic, and not a literal, sense. It should be noted that the twentieth chapter of Revelation is the only portion of Scripture that even mentions a millennium, and this with considerable ambiguity. It is therefore not sufficient grounds upon which to build an entire system of eschatology. Also, the number “one thousand” is rarely, if ever, presented in Scripture as being literal, but as symbolic of an innumerable quantity.

Take, for example, (Psalm 50:10) For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. What about the cattle on hill number one thousand and one? Do they belong to someone else? Of course not. Again the thousand is not to be taken in a literal, sense but an innumerable quantity. Some agree that this directly points to the 40 year period between the cross and the destruction of the temple in A.D.70 The reign of Christ’s started at his resurrection, we know this from scripture (Acts 2:29-32), The 40 years from AD30-70 were the years in which Jesus reigned over Israel with a rod of iron - iron also symbolizing the Roman armies/nation. Acts 2:29-31 states that Christ was raised to sit on the throne of David. I Corinthians 15:25 infers that Jesus was presently reigning.

But when did the start of Satan binding begin. According to scripture this was during the beginning of Jesus ministry “How can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man, and then he will spoil his house. If I by the spirit of God cast out demons, then is the Kingdom of God come upon you” (Matt. xii. 29, 28).

When the apostles cast out evil spirits, this was done under the binding of Satan. The fact that they had been able to do so shows this. Paul wrote with divine authority Satan was bruised beneath the feet of the primitive Christians shortly after the epistle to the Romans was written (58 A.D.)

What does the binding and loosing of Satan Revelation refer to? “The specific point of the binding of Satan, is to prevent him from all his ability to deceive the nations. While in the Pit he is prevented and restricted from stopping the gospel until God is ready. Only when Satan is released is he able to rise again. It is also obvious that John’s thought is conveyed through symbolism.
Those who insist on a literal one thousand year binding of Satan have to also prove he is being held in a literal abyss, with a literal chain, and a literal key. This cannot be done of course because you cannot bind a spiritual being, with physical chains and keys. This is obviously, figures of speech; Binding always means the limitation of power, in some way.

When God is ready Satan is allowed to deceive the nations for the final conflagration…The Satan is not his own master. He has been seized and bound and shut up in the Abyss, and one-day would be released for a brief time – but all this takes place according to God’s good and holy purposes.” (Revelation 20:8)

The next question that arises is how did Satan deceive the nations.
The coming of the kingdom of God was the theme of Old Testament prophecy and Christ’s personal ministry. Israel became the covenant people of God and was chosen of God to be the bearer of the promise of faith until the seed should come to whom the promise was made. (Gal. 3:19) Jesus also preached a message that his kingdom was not of the world. (Jon. 18:19) Israel however, failed to understand the purpose of the law with its types and shadows in relation to the promised heavenly things. Instead of being open by faith to the fulfillment of the types and shadows that were under the law, Israel turned to the law with its system of works demanding a literal kingdom. (John 11:47-48)

They mistakenly interpreted God’s promise about the kingdom to be literal, and belong to them exclusively, within the framework of the works of the law. And instead of being a light unto the gentile nations, Israel became darkness. God gave Israel 40 years to repent and come under his reign however Israel remained in blindness or ignorance concerning the righteousness of God that is tied directly to the kingdom of God. Their error then became Satan’s instrument for deceiving the nations as brought out clearly after the thousand years were finished (Rev. 20:7) This is the (first and last) time Satan is released from his prison to deceive the nations.

Satan then deceived the nations of Israel into believing the time had come for God to set up a earthly kingdom and throw off the Roman yoke. Rome did not initiate the war against Israel. Israel was under the authority and control of Rome. Headstrong men in Jerusalem itself greedy of gain kept irritating the people and inciting them to rebel against Rome.

The people quit paying their taxes, which would have been sufficient in itself to cause Rome to go against Jerusalem. This is how Satan deceived Israel into their complete destruction. This account is given that you might have a better understand of the historical background of what led up to the great tribulation upon the Jews and their destruction. It all started with the deception of Satan, which made the Jews believe it was time to throw off the yoke of Rome. And this is the (only time) Satan deceived the nations according to God’s plans.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Christ’s Description of the Pharisees:
Matthew 12:34 O offspring of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Even John the Baptist recognized this:
Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O offspring of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Since Christ said that these Pharisees were the offspring of snakes, and He also said that their father was the devil... The serpent is a familiar character in the Old Testament canon. Carrying its venom beneath its tongue, the serpent beguiled the woman in the garden. (Gen. 3:1-4) The serpent thence became a figure for sin and death, the ultimate enemy of man. Jesus called Judas Iscariot a “devil.” (John. 6:70)

In a similar manner, the high priests and elders of the Jews are probably in contemplation when it says that the “devil” put it into the heart of Judas to betray Christ for money. (John. 13:2)

The Greek term translated devil is diabolos, meaning an accuser, a slanderer. It is derived from the word diabolo, to accuse or malign. In the latter days, Paul said men would be “diaboloi” viz., “false accusers” (II Tim. 3:3; ***. 2:3) The Jews spread venomous lies against the church throughout the ancient world, seeking its destruction. For their slanders and accusations the Jews are described as the devil and his angels waging war with Christ and his disciples.

Jesus also said that the devil came to kill and destroy. Certainly there was enmity between the first-century Christians and the Pharisees. Of course all true believers throughout the Old Covenant, especially prophets, were hated and/or killed by the Pharisees. They killed through their words and through their actions:

Matthew 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

When they were removed in AD 70 they were crushed beneath the feet of the first century saints.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The topic of which I am planning may diverse into multiple topics (all relating to the same)... but just for starters:

Does the resurrected Christ have a physical body?




Please explain to me the 'Christian' (and I use the word loosely... because it is a very loose one!!) teaching on this doctrine.

Thanx.

The Bible says that His body is fully human and that He is the same human being body that He has inhabited from the incarnation.

He is now glorified as the New Man, the Last Adam, and all who are born again in His Living Spirit will be resurrected and or regenerated -if living when He comes to take us to Himself- as those adopted in body 'sons'.

Adam was glorified with the Presence of the glory of the Father and lost that glory when the Presence of the Father's glory departed from, him, our first father (and we, his seed in his loins, died as sons of God that day, in him); The Last Adam was made a Life giving Spirit, and in Him, we are the adopted sons of God who will also be glorified when we are regenerated in body, in His New Man fully human being image.


His human being body is flesh, and that flesh is indwelt by the Living Spirit, the YHWH of hosts, second Person, as the last Adam, and the Firstborn of the human race that inherits the kingdom of God that Adam was given and sold, into sin and slavery; and the YHWH of hosts, second Person, is come in fully human flesh as the only begotten Son of the Living God in that fully human being flesh so that He could be the legal brother to Adam, which gives Him the full legal rights to redeem His brother's kingdom and to 'marry' the 'barren widow' to bring the many sons to glory.

The first man was made a living soul in a fully human being body; the Last Adam was made a Living Spirit in a fully human being body. He rose from dead in the very same body that was prepared for Him in the womb of the virgin, to be the Firstborn of the New Man human being race of humans who inherit the kingdom that Adam lost, in.

Those who try to deny His full humanity and that He is dwelling in a fully human being body of the New Creation, miss the facts of Scripture that teach that a Kinsman must redeem the property so that it does not go to a stranger, or 'alien', and the barren widow of a Kinsman must be married to raise up 'seed'. The New Man raises up the seed by cleansing and adopting the sons that were to have been sons of God in Adam, but died in Adam, in the fall. The adopting is complete when we are regenerated in body.

There is no sex involved in the godly seed that the New Man raises up by His redeeming and marrying those 'in Adam' who were created to be sons of God, for He brings the sons to the Father for the glory to indwell them when He 'adopts' the seed of Adam -the whole family [whosoever will] , by raising them in His New Man image at the resurrection of the dead -in Christ- and the regenerating of the living Believers at His coming to take them to Himself -which is the regenerating of them so that they may be those sons of God in body in His image for the glory to indwell -as it was to have been in the beginning.

He is the Son of Man for eternity, and the Kingdom that the Son of Man rules is the kingdom that was given to the Adam being, and when we are raised in His image, we share the rule of the kingdom in Him that we were first written in the Book of Life to have had, in our Adam being -but in Adam all are now dead, as 'son of God' forever.

"In Adam all die, in Christ all are made alive".

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Thanks for the response. However, I am convinced that at no time in our history so far has satan been chained. Sin and evil have been ever-present since they were introduced. An event of such magnitude would have be better documented among the apostles if it had occured.

I believe there are many contradictions between what you have stated and what is written in the Bible....

Amen

 

[yeshuasavedme]

eh? Firstly, we do not understand the laws of heaven. How did Christ create the world? how did he perform miracles? How this... how that... etc. etc. However.. one thing that we do know (and should accept) is the doctrine of the resurrection. Christ taught that all would be resurrected, and he himself appeared as a resurrected being. NEVER did he say that he would be a spirit again after his resurrection.... NEVER did he say that his resurrection was on a temporary basis... so why should we assume such?

and what are u talking about... saying that a belief in the physical resurrection must also be linked to a belief in a flat earth?

Those who learn in school that the earth was believed to be flat at the time of Christ should go check out the failings of the school they received their education from. Job referenced the round globe, and the history of the world is of the rise and fall of great civilizations all over this globe.

'Prove all things' is not only for the doctrines of the Gospel, but also for all things one is told in their so called 'education'. Check it all out!

Eratosthenes, who was born nearly three hundred years B.C., calculated the circumference of the earth within two hundred miles, and was the closest -until modern satellites could orbit the earth and measure.

Travel was made back and forth to the western continents (called Kittim, or Chittim, and falsely translated Cyprus) from the time man spread out from Babel. the king of Tarshish sent colonies to the western continents and when Nebuchadnezzar ruled Tarshish, He also ruled those whom Tarshish ruled. In fact, Nebuchadnezzar ruled the entire globe, wherever man, beast, or fowl dwelt, said Daniel, and the Olmec civilization was at its height in Mexico- at the same time that Nebuchadnezzar reigned over all the earth -wherever man, beast, or fowl dwelt.

Great civilizations have come and gone, in cycles, all over this earth in the six thousand years of earth's history, and there is no new thing under the sun, all that is has been before; and the western continents were discovered, and lost, and discovered -and who knows! -If Jesus tarries, it could happen again!for "the wicked shall be turned into hell and every nation that forgets God".

 

[yeshuasavedme]

eh? Firstly, we do not understand the laws of heaven. How did Christ create the world? how did he perform miracles? How this... how that... etc. etc. However.. one thing that we do know (and should accept) is the doctrine of the resurrection. Christ taught that all would be resurrected, and he himself appeared as a resurrected being. NEVER did he say that he would be a spirit again after his resurrection.... NEVER did he say that his resurrection was on a temporary basis... so why should we assume such?

and what are u talking about... saying that a belief in the physical resurrection must also be linked to a belief in a flat earth?

And the flat earth was not believed until after civilization was set back, again, and libraries destroyed by the barbarians, and main travel stopped to the 'western continents'.
Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth in the third century B.C. within two hundred miles of the actual circumference as measured by 'modern' satellites.
Tarshish had colonies in the western continents and traded here when Nebuchadnezzar ruled the entire earth.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Thanks for the response. However, I am convinced that at no time in our history so far has satan been chained. Sin and evil have been ever-present since they were introduced. An event of such magnitude would have be better documented among the apostles if it had occured.

I believe there are many contradictions between what you have stated and what is written in the Bible. Still, I appreciate your taking the time to explain them to me.

The Glory of the New Covenant

Jesus said that His kingdom would come without observation. (Luke 17:20-21) Paul said in II Cor 4:

We do not look at the things, which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things, which are seen, are temporary, but the things, which are not seen are eternal.

In that day the old covenant was being left behind for the glory of the new. The old covenant dealt with things that were seen. It is filled with types and shadows that were physical representations of the spiritual realities of the new covenant. For example, every blessing in the OC was material or temporal. Then we see Paul saying that through Christ we are blessed with every spiritual blessing (Eph 1:3).

The problem we have today is that the same thinking that caused so many of the Jews to miss the Messiah is still around today. They were expecting the messiah to bring a visible OC type kingdom. in other words, more of the same, only bigger and better. Likewise, today we still have people expecting a really big cubic city to drop down out of the sky someday.

There were physical signs when the kingdom of God came in power namely the destruction of the Jerusalem and the temple. Now, we must assume that this unseen kingdom is here in fullness. The question is what do we expect it to look like?

Some would expect that a lot of really exciting stuff should happen. Really “wow” kind of things like miracles and the like. However, we must remember that the New Testament miracles were the sign that the kingdom was near. Remember in the day of Moses, the greatest miracles happened not in the Promised Land but in the wilderness time, in other words, during the transitional period between Egypt and the Promised Land. Yet, things like manna from the sky, the cloud by day, and the pillar of fire by night, and miraculous provisions of water all ceased when they entered into the Promised Land. Yes, there were still miracles in the land, but not of the same intensity we see in the wilderness period.

Certainly there is an application for the covenantal exodus we see in the New Testament. Remember we see the immature church during this time. The question is what should the mature church in a fully consummated kingdom look like and experience?

Others think that the kingdom should bring perfection. No more bad guys. No more sin. No more problems. Utopia. Yet, is a perfect world, ever promised by God? Yes, Jesus put away sin, but we never see in the scriptures that this means we will stop sinning. Rather it means that sin has lost its power to keep us from God’s presence. Moreover, is a trouble free world really the best thing for us?

Of this we can be certain, at the heart of the kingdom of God is restoration of relationship between God and humanity. Even Jesus’ miracles speak of this fact. Every one of them spoke of restoration and forgiveness. He healed those whom the Law had shut out. The outcasts even the gentiles. It is important for us to understand that Jesus did wonderful miracles, but is it just as important to understand what those miracles were saying. So, in a fully consummated kingdom we know that we have God and He has us.

This was the heart of the maturity the church was attaining to in the transitional period. They were seeing dimly, but would see face to face. We see this also in John’s writings. What is the earmark of the father (mature one I John 2:12-14) in Christ? He knows the Father.

I believe this simple truth helps us understand what to expect of the kingdom in our lives. Very simply the outward demonstration of the kingdom is love. That is where we end up. This is the proof that we know God.

When the Lord replaced the righteousness of man with the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, he removed every obstacle to love’s fullness. Perfect love had cast out fear in humanity’s relationship with God.

However, that was only the half of it. By giving the worth of Christ to all, He took away every obstacle that kept us from loving our neighbor. How can we hate our neighbor when hating him has become hating Christ?

Now, here is a philosophical question. Can love find its full glory in a perfect world? If everybody is lovable, what glory is there in loving? As Jesus said, even the sinners love those who love them. It is a good thing to love those who love us, but is an even greater power and demonstration of the kingdom found in loving our enemies? What do you all think?

 

[Mike7251]

Yes, Jesus does have a physical body now. He is the only physical person in heaven right now with the resurection body. Everyone else who is a believer has to wait until the rapture to get their new physical body. Otherwise why would the dead have to rise out of their graves and meet Jesus in the air if they weren't getting new physical bodies?