Does the recently confirmed existence of UfO's pose a threat to Christianity?

[Jipsah]

But was it a UFO report from multiple fighter pilots, claiming to have engaged in dog fight maneuvers with that "moon" and having gimbal tracking data as well as tracking data from our most advanced military tracking radars -- there is only so much that a "moon" or a "crumpled object on the floor" can be expected to do.

And of course, no possibility that a human built aircraft/spacecraft could ever do anything like that, or better yet, make itself appear to behave like that (kinda like that car the the police radar clocked at 325 mph courtesy of a somewhat illegal microwave transmitter in the car). I mean, yeah, maybe a rogue ham operator can spoof a police radar like that, but no country in the world with a billion and a half or so population whose universities grind out scientists and engineers at a ferocious rate will ever be able to take that idea and create a "now you see me now you don't" means of fooling sophisticated US Navy men. Nope, not possible, gotta be spacemen or demons with flying saucers. Only possible answer.

Right.

As Michio Kaku points out - the kook-fringe tipping point has been reached so that now the "burden of proof" is on those who would like to suppose that the "moon" or a crumpled object on the floor can master all of those observed abilities at mach 20 etc."

I know that quote sounds really profound to you, but what is that old boy trying to say? That we all must believe in flying saucers now? If so then he's not particularly clever, is he?

What is more - "the moon" and "a crumpled object on the floor" would not be in the category of "above top secret" for 50 years.

And Area 51, Majestyk, the Philadelphia Experiment, and every other Ufolooney trope you'd care to name. Sorry, the "the spacemen and flying saucer" religion is one I don't care to embrace. My beliefs are nicely summarized in the Nicene Creed, and I see no need for spacemen or demonic saucerians. Your mileage obviously varies.

 

[Jipsah]

they are officially confirming a "part" of their data in 2019.

That "part" being that people have seen flying things that they can't identify. Dang! Next they'll be revealing that water is wet and the earth orbits the sun. This is obviously a tipping point between something and something else....

 

[BobRyan]

That "part" being that people have seen flying things that they can't identify.

Things that they will now "permit" pilots to mention
Things that they claim are making "unauthorized incursions into US air space"
Things that they say are placing military pilots "at risk"
Things that the pilots themselves are complaining about
Things on radar and other forms of tracking data engaged in dog fight maneuvers with jet fighters
Things that are observed to travel from 0 to mach 20 and back to 0 in seconds with no sonic boom.
you know... "all the detail" you keep ignoring

And of course, no possibility that a human built aircraft/spacecraft could ever do anything like that, .

The claim that some government had that kind of technology 20 years ago - that we freely admit we do not have even today ... and yet have not once interfered in any of our military wars with that sort of thing... is more "conspiracy theory" than I am used to.

Dang! Next they'll be revealing that water is wet and the earth orbits the sun.

Obviously you live in a different world than the rest of us - if all that is just your every day experience!
Maybe you should be taking videos too
LOL!

 

[Jipsah]

The claim that some government had that kind of technology 20 years ago - that we freely admit we do not have even today ... and yet have not once interfered in any of our military wars with that sort of thing... is more "conspiracy theory" than I am used to.

Oh yeah, back when they were developing the f-117 all the boys down at the bar talked of nothing else, and kept wondering why it was taking so long to release. BTW, google "skunk works". <Laugh>

Obviously you live in a different world than the rest of us

Apparently so. Nary a flying saucer or chupacabra or bigfoot or goblin or kelpie in sight in this world. YOurs appears to be chockabloc with 'em. Tell the spacemen I said hi.

 

[BobRyan]

That "part" being that people have seen flying things that they can't identify.

Things that they will now "permit" pilots to mention
Things that they claim are making "unauthorized incursions into US air space"
Things that they say are placing military pilots "at risk"
Things that the pilots themselves are complaining about
Things on radar and other forms of tracking data engaged in dog fight maneuvers with jet fighters
Things that are observed to travel from 0 to mach 20 and back to 0 in seconds with no sonic boom.
you know... "all the detail" you keep ignoring

And of course, no possibility that a human built aircraft/spacecraft could ever do anything like that, .

The claim that some government had that kind of technology 20 years ago - that we freely admit we do not have even today ... and yet have not once interfered in any of our military wars with that sort of thing... is more "conspiracy theory" than I am used to.

Oh yeah, back when they were developing the f-117 all the boys down at the bar talked of nothing else, and kept wondering why it was taking so long to release. BTW, google "skunk works". <Laugh>

Flew slower than the most advanced jets of its own day -- and the only real "leap" was in the paint and to some extent the shape for avoiding radar returns. Not exactly "100 years beyond us" - all the special sauce for it was in how to keep such an unstable craft in air. But basically it STILL had "flight surfaces" and it still had chemical based fuel, engines that produce exhaust - and it still had the same basic flight physics we were using 40 years before that.

Not even remotely what we are talking about on this thread.

 

[Jipsah]

Things that they will now "permit" pilots to mention...

Thing that they can't identify, UAP. You want so much for them to have said, "Yep, it was flying saucers, but alas, they didn't.

The claim that some government had that kind of technology 20 years ago

Claim by whom? You appear to have made that claim up yourself.

- that we freely admit we do not have even today ... and yet have not once interfered in any of our military wars with that sort of thing... is more "conspiracy theory" than I am used to.

Ah, we freely admit that there are things coming out of our skunkworks that make current stealth tech look archaic, but it's secret, so mum's the word, OK? Riiiiiight. And of course, if the Chinese (and they'd be my first bet) have come up something like that we'd be the first to publicly announce that we'd been caught flat-footed by it. Abso-lutely! That's the way the military works, they keep us informed of everything they're doing right to the minute. That why when Nighthawk was deployed during the Gulf War, the Iraqis knew exactly what those invisible things launching missiles at them were.

Right.

Flew slower than the most advanced jets of its own day

Just as those advanced jets flew slower than their pure-interceptor predecessors deployed in the 50s and 60s? Was Starfighter the ultimate fighter plane? It was certainly faster than anything in the US inventory today. But then again, the Sopwith Triplane could easily out maneuver any modern fighter, maybe it was the best fighter ever...

-- and the only real "leap" was in the paint and to some extent the shape for avoiding radar r But basically it STILL had "flight surfaces" and it still had chemical based fuel, engines that produce exhaust - and it still had the same basic flight physics we were using 40 years before that.
Not even remotely what we are talking about on this thread.

But flying saucers run on magic and moonbeams, so they don't need any of that crude aerodynamic stuff. I need to buy stock in that company.

 

[BobRyan]

Thing that they can't identify, UAP.

Interesting that they for the first time "officially" admit to the UFO when prior to that it was supposedly "swamp gas, weather balloon, moon or crumpled object on the floor" where they "did not approve of those videos getting out to the public".

Since when do we not want a picture of "swamp gas" getting out the public? When were we ever in that business?

Now the big 2019 announcement is that pilot careers no longer "at risk" for reporting the UFO... in fact they are encouraged to report them after all we spent 22 million dollars looking into all that swamp gas at the pentagon trying to figure out just how weather balloons work when they are identified by our own military pilots as UFOs.

T
You want so much for them to have said, "Yep, it was flying saucers,"

On the contrary it works out much better for my purposes to keep with the weather balloon story --- "hint: read the OP" or at the very least - the "title to thread"

Claim by whom? You appear to have made that claim up yourself.

Clearly you are not reading or watching the news clips

Ah, we freely admit that there are things coming out of our skunkworks that make current stealth tech look archaic, but it's secret

Nope. They all still use flight control surfaces and they all still have jet exhaust and sonic booms if they are able to do over mach 1.You keep "glossing over the details" as if that is going to help the case you are trying to make.

The point remains.

But flying saucers run on magic and moonbeams, so they don't need any of that crude aerodynamic stuff.

earth to whoever is posting...

 

[Cis.jd]

Sept 2019 the U.S. Navy confirms existence of UFOs with hard evidence including visual sightings over a period of years -- and also tracking them on radar as well as engaging them in arial maneuver (dog fights) where they are not firing on anything just trying to follow/track it.

Does your view of Christianity view this as a threat to Christianity? a threat to evangelism in the context of a public being informed that UFO's are real and not merely swamp gas? Or will it increase the ability to evangelize the public in favor of Christianity in your view?

Many people who have been discussing this idea for a long time ... claim that publicly admitting to it would be a problem for Christianity.

(After 12 pages -- I am coming to this conclusion -- 2 minutes ago #235
)
================================================
Look at this post -- Monday at 7:32 PM #161 (CBS Inside Edition)
And this one -- Wednesday at 10:12 PM #190 (History)

CNN Sept 2019..

May 2019 ABC News GoodMorningAm George Stephanopoulos, Chris Mellon interview with lots of vid
2:35 What are you seeing?.. What I am seeing and what the experts we have brought in to view these tapes are seeing is something that is frankly baffling

• "It’s hard to understand – how do these vehicles maintain lift
• "How are they propelled? There are no wing surfaces and there is no exhaust.
• "So there’s nothing that we are familiar with that we have deployed in the air that has a power source other than fuel .. chemical energy power source.
• "These are so radically different than anything we are familiar with and their performance is so advanced and so sophisticated it is baffling (3:11)

– 4:35 "how do you explain all this full disclosure yet no reaction??

Christopher Mellon: former United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence (the third highest intelligence position at the The Pentagon) and later for Security and Information Operations. He formerly served as the Staff Director of the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

--Fox news 00:00 Sep 19 starts with Navy official acknowledgement Sept 2019
00:35 this seems like a “change” in the way govt/navy is addressing the topic
1:25 so US Govt admitting … this is watershed moment.. but not getting public reaction? Why?

History Channel – all 3 primary DOD videos - source of videos finally identified (see 2 minute point in this next video)

================================

compilation -
ufo news 2019 Nov - Bing video

=====================================

How all this news - came about - in the first place.

3:15 len: Fox News Christopher Mellon May 2019

00:25“we know UFOs exist
02:13 – History channel clip from unexplained.
03:00 operating in and around military installations
- intelligently controlled vehicles
- Safety issues - near mid-air collision with our military pilots
- US Sovereignty being violated by vehicles of unknown origin

============================= burden of proof has shifted.
As of 2019 --

Michio Kaku 0:39 seconds burden of proof shifts to UFO denier. “Game changer” fox news post it

Michio Kaku on US Navy UFO Confirmation - " The Evidence is Overwhelming"

0:54 “What has changed what is different now? We witnessing a tipping point ..the burden of proof has changed” It is now on those who want to make the case that UFOs are not what we are seeing. (Sept 2019)

Michio Kaku:
American theoretical physicist... professor of theoretical physics in the City College of New York and CUNY Graduate Center. ... He has written the New York Times best sellers: Physics of the Impossible (2008)


But what are the odds that 15 to 20 years ago we and the russians and the Chinese had drones going 20 times the speed of sound and would not generate a sonic boom as they did so?
===========================
Consider this

1. We never say "swamp gas is not authorized to be in U.S. airspace"
2. We never say "swamp gas is a national security and safety problem"
3. we never say "incursion into our air space by some kind of aerial vehicle" is the kind of infraction that swamp gas is guilty of doing.

And yet... we have this.

==================================
From: https://www.history.com/news/navy-confirms-ufo-videos-real

Navy Confirms UFO Videos Are Real and Show Unidentified Aerial Phenomena
HISTORY

VIEW: Declassified: UFOs Captured on Video by U.S. Fighter Pilots

The news that the Navy considers the three videos—unofficially known as “FLIR1,” “Gimbal” and “GoFast”—as examples of UAPs first appeared on The Black Vault, a web site that specializes in declassified government documents. “FLIR1” is from November 14, 2004, and “Gimbal” and “GoFast” are from January 21, 2015. Joseph Gradisher, official spokesperson for the deputy chief of naval operations for information warfare, emphasized to HISTORY that these videos represent only some of the UAP sightings the Navy is investigating.

“Those three videos are just part of a larger effort by the U.S. Navy to try and investigate a series of incursions into our training ranges by phenomena that we’re calling unidentified aerial phenomena,” says Gradisher, who declined to say how many sightings there have been. “Our aviators train as they fight. So when they’re out there training, if there’s an incursion by any kind of aerial vehicle phenomena, whatever, it puts the safety of our aviators at risk as well as the security of our training operations.”

ADVERTISEMENT

READ MORE: Are UFOs a Threat to National Security? This Ex-U.S. Official Thinks They Warrant Investigation

To be clear, the Navy is not saying that these videos show evidence of alien life. Rather, the Navy is saying it can’t identify the phenomena in the videos. The Navy considers UAPs like these a national security and safety problem because they are not authorized to be in U.S. airspace. After a series of classified briefings featuring Navy pilots and lawmakers this summer, the Navy announced it had formalized its process for pilots and other personnel to report UAPs so that records of these sightings are more consistent, and therefore easier to investigate.

===========================
Regarding this post -- Monday at 7:32 PM #161 (CBS Inside Edition)
we have.
1. No flight control surfaces
2. Bounces when it changes direction like a ping pong ball bouncing off a board
3. Rapid 2 to 3 second acceleration to mach 28 past horizon - then back in a few seconds hovering again.
4. Accelerate through Mach 20, Mach 28 speeds without triggering sonic booms
5. Easily out maneuvers top of the line jet fighters.
6. Unauthorized incursions into our air space and we don't fire on them or do anything to inform them they are not authorized. They operate with impunity.

=====================
A history of documented above-top-secret classification regarding this topic
10 Shocking Statements about UFOs by Scientists and Government Officials | Mysterious Universe

As a threat to christianity? Yes and No. No because, the news is mostly exaggerated or made up for the sake of ratings. Yes - because I have probably listened to too many conspiracy theorists (both Christian and non christian).

anyway the conspiracy is that Aliens/UFO's, the Illuminati, secret governments, and Angels/Demons are likely co-related. Aliens are the fallen angels (the Watchers). They are former heavenly spirits who entered our universe and became bounded to it's laws. Becoming matter/physical body which is the alien like creature image because they are not made in the image of god, and losing all grace that they eventually built their own technology to have power.

As stated in genesis these fallen mated with women and had offsprings known as the Nephilims (which are probably the gods of Egypt, Greece, Babylon, Hinduism etc). In this doc he records a ceremony of secret society composed of highly powerful rich people, and they are worshiping some Owl looking statue. So since there are secret societies composed of the most powerful people in the world secretly worshiping someone.. if that is the case then it's likely the whole plot of "One world government" is true.

Now, how can they achieve that? The best way to get society to accept a one world government is by setting up something that threatens all of us, like an "Alien invasion". If Aliens become 100% confirmed, it will effectively cause questions about Jesus, the Church, the Bible, and all that.

Again, this is a conspiracy theory.

 

[BobRyan]

As stated in genesis these fallen mated with women and had offsprings known as the Nephilims (which are probably the gods of Egypt, Greece, Babylon, Hinduism etc). .

No text in genesis says that fallen angels mated with women. Let's start with that fact.

 

[Cis.jd]

No text in genesis says that fallen angels mated with women. Let's start with that fact.

Some people interpret Genesis 6:4 to say that.

 

[BobRyan]

As stated in genesis these fallen mated with women and had offsprings known as the Nephilims (which are probably the gods of Egypt, Greece, Babylon, Hinduism etc). .

No text in genesis says that fallen angels mated with women. Let's start with that fact.

Some people interpret Genesis 6:4 to say that.

No doubt. And some people interpret water covering the highest mountains in Genesis 7 so that all air breathing animals on earth die -- to mean "local flood".

Many odd things can be had in that fashion.

 

[Jipsah]

Nope. They all still use flight control surfaces and they all still have jet exhaust and sonic booms if they are able to do over mach 1.

Sorry mate, but you're behind the state of the art today. New no-boom designs are known to be in at least the prototype, and that's just what they're admitting. Planes without control surfaces are definitely in the prototype stage as well, most of them using something akin to the old "boundary layer control" used to increase lift in low speed flight since the 1950s. God stuff, especially since traditional controls are draggie and tend to screw the nice clean air flow so beloved of aeonautical engineers. Boundary layer blowing can, in certain modes of flight, can provide effective direction control without a lot of flappy bits, resulting in a lovely clean slippery airplane.

No spacemen or demons necessary.

Then again, there's probably No Way That Mere Humans can design a system that can spoof radar into thinking you're here one second and yonder the next. Just can't be done without Space Magic. Same with scrambling visuals. That requires Defying The Laws of Physics, and everyone knows that only Spacemen and Demons can do that.

Right.

You keep "glossing over the details" as if that is going to help the case you are trying to make.

Update your knowledge of aeronautics and get back to me. <Laugh>

The point remains. earth to whoever is posting...

Why it's Spacemen, of course!

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry mate, but you're behind the state of the art today. New no-boom designs are known to be in at least the prototype,

Ok so they are still saying they are real.
From April 2020
The Pentagon Released U.F.O. Videos. Don’t Hold Your Breath for a Breakthrough.
Historic UFO videos released by Pentagon includes object that outran a F-18 fighter jet - ABC News
Pentagon releases UFO videos for the record

Here's my question - they already spelled this out with big letters and bold print last year for us -- telling us it is the real deal. No rocket science needed to "read tea leaves" or anything remotely like it from what they did last year.

So how odd that they "feel the need" to remind us again.

Anyone care to guess why they are "reminding us again" that they already did this for us last year in even more bold print than in the previous 2 years?

That seems a bit odd.

Coming out with a "don't forget , we already told this to you" message is very strange indeed. Especially given that the DOD has not exactly been "marketing" the idea in previous decades. Usually they are consumed with doing other stuff.

 

[BobRyan]

Some people interpret Genesis 6:4 to say that.

Where the word "interpret" is used at a level that one could drive a truck through?

 

[nolidad]

Ok so they are still saying they are real.
From April 2020
The Pentagon Released U.F.O. Videos. Don’t Hold Your Breath for a Breakthrough.
Historic UFO videos released by Pentagon includes object that outran a F-18 fighter jet - ABC News
Pentagon releases UFO videos for the record

Here's my question - they already spelled this out with big letters and bold print last year for us last year telling us it is the real deal. No rocket science needed to "read tea leaves" or anything remotely like it from what they did last year.

So how odd that they "feel the need" to remind us again.

Anyone care to guess why they are "reminding us again" that they already did this for us last year in even more bold print than in the previous 2 years?

That seems a bit odd.

Coming out with a "don't forget , we already told this to you" message is very strange indeed.

Well if there is intelligent life out there other than cherubs, seraphs and angels, I have an enormous problem with it.

They would have to be so far technologically advanced than us and yet they have not revealed themselves openly and at best we have grainy pictures and hypnosis.

If there is life- I would just ask them who is their Lord? If not Jesus- they are evil beings, for Jesus is the creator of the whole universe and thus all living fall under His Lordship!

 

[BobRyan]

Well if there is intelligent life out there other than cherubs, seraphs and angels, I have an enormous problem with it.

They would have to be so far technologically advanced than us and yet they have not revealed themselves openly and at best we have grainy pictures and hypnosis.

If there is life- I would just ask them who is their Lord? If not Jesus- they are evil beings, for Jesus is the creator of the whole universe and thus all living fall under His Lordship!

Indeed the narrative being told about UFOs is not a Bible/Christian compatible one. So the more widely it gets accepted the closer we are to the Rev 13 "signs and wonders" that deceive the whole world - of which this one could balloon into one of the big ones.

But remember this as well - for the Hindus and the Muslims there is "a Jesus" that they all admit to.

2 Cor 11:4 -- "Another Jesus" has been a common theme for the past 2000 years. Might not be the last we see of that idea.

 

[nolidad]

Indeed the narrative being told about UFOs is not a Bible/Christian compatible one. So the more widely it gets accepted the closer we are to the Rev 13 "signs and wonders" that deceive the whole world - of which this one could balloon into one of the big ones.

But remember this as well - for the Hindus and the Muslims there is "a Jesus" that they all admit to.

2 Cor 11:4 -- "Another Jesus"

Many years ago there was a couple of Christian fiction novels about how Satan could use UFO's as pat of teh deception. Teh first was called the "Archon Conspiracy".

I know that cosmic humanists (new agers) believe that ET's are highly evolved creatures (evolved into godhood) and are overseeing our development.

 

[BobRyan]

Many years ago there was a couple of Christian fiction novels about how Satan could use UFO's as pat of teh deception. Teh first was called the "Archon Conspiracy".

I know that cosmic humanists (new agers) believe that ET's are highly evolved creatures (evolved into godhood) and are overseeing our development.

What I find interesting is that in Rev 16 the 6th plague includes the idea of demons under some form of disguise going out to the governments of all the earth and calling them to a place of battle. Then in Rev 19 you see Christ at the second coming, at the head of an army - and all the armies of Earth gathered together to oppose Him.

so Rev 16
12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, so that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east.13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
===========================
Now what do you suppose those governments will be told (are being told?) about "what's coming"?

=============== the armies gathered at 2nd coming
Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men
==================================

 

[Tolworth John]

Well if there is intelligent life out there other than cherubs, seraphs and angels, I have an enormous problem with it.

They would have to be so far technologically advanced than us and yet they have not revealed themselves openly and at best we have grainy pictures and hypnosis.

If there is life- I would just ask them who is their Lord? If not Jesus- they are evil beings, for Jesus is the creator of the whole universe and thus all living fall under His Lordship!

Wow someone who has used intelligence on the question of UFOs.

There are two positions re UFOs.
1/ they are so advanced hey make us look primative. There technology is totally undetectable by ours, we have noway of locating them and it follows we do not know if they are here.

2/ there technology is detectable b us and we can see them coming for light years away, there spaceships in the old system can be sen and tasted at all times.

Take your pick both options men there are no UFO in our solar system.

It therefore follows that UFOs are demonic as they are not from other suns.

 

[Dave G.]

I know a few Christians who believe UFOs are demonic and I don't doubt that potential exists . Bottom line, we don't know what it is. I also think some of this activity is our own, I believe we have capabilities beyond what most of us commoners have access to knowing about. That said the end times will be very interesting to say the least.