Does the Bible teach that obedience is expected after salvation?

[Frogster]

You might need to supply a paragraph or two of his material as I would say that when someone refers to anything as being the 'A.B.C's' that they are trying to say that they must never be discarded or ignored.

but I was right about stoicheion. you don't have to forget them, but to move on out of elementalism is scriptural.

 

[gideons300]

Bro gid, is obedience central to law? Can you have law that does not demand obedience?


Heb 2:2 For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution,



Bottom line, there is a strong conjunction, with the 2, and to be obedient, one knows if he is not also, so the more one is centered on right and wrong, obedience or failure, that ia living in elementalism, and a very distrubing law centered life.

It's just true bro, look at that verse above. Retribution, that is what I meant by good puppy, bad puppy, good guy, bad guy, yes, good girl, bad girl too, they do not get a free ride.. that is a low plane to live on. Crime and punishment.

alright now, be blessed, frog.

Again, the obedient people out there could wonder whay all the fuss about obedience? They just are, but it is not the center of their lives, or doctrine.

May I share a personal story? My father-in law from my first marriage was an avid duck hunter in Louisiana. His dog, a black lab, was named Dark Blu Thunder. The man and his dog were inseparable when Charlie was home. Blu was such a good hunter that Charlie began to train him for the National Field Trials. Six days a week, Charlie and Blu, who slept by the foot of his bed, would go out at 5:30in the morning, rain or shine, and do field work.

Charlie and Blu made it to Nationals and while most of the dog owners were not the dog trainers, they would go and compete with their "trained" dogs, complements of shock collars. That is the obedience of the law.

Do and you shall live (not get shocked). Law. Obey or you know what is coming. There was little life in the eyes of the dogs, or joy for that matter. There was no connection between dog and owner. It was a "business relationship".

Two hundred contestants at Nationals. One out of the 200 was an owner/handler...Charlie and Blu. No shock collar...ever. Blu was amazing, and even at seven, old for a dog, Blu approached trials as the most exciting thing imaginable, tail wagging, eyes bright in anticipation of Charlie's commands. Charlie and Blu finished third out of 200. Never before had an owner handler finished in the top 50.

That dog LOVED that man, and that man LOVED that dog. Obedience? You bet. Law? Not on your life. No "do and you shall live". The obedience empowered by love.

"Live and you shall do."

When Saul was on the road to Damascus, this young zealous Pharisee... a Pharisee of the Pharisees in his own words....was met by Jesus, the one Saul persecuted....face to face. Saul, the outwardly obedient man, met a higher power than law to bring forth REAL obedience in his life. His salvation was accompanied by no prayer of faith, no walking the aisle, no membership role. Eight words. In the form of a question.

"What would you have me to do, Lord?"

With these amazing words, victory was assured. They are the words of absolute surrender. Saul became Paul. A brand new man. Was Paul obedient?You bet. Was it through the law? Not a chance. No more was he Saul of Romans. He was Paul of Romans 8.

There can be no doubt, we cannot truly obey as God desires without a miracle. We need new natures, changed hearts, in order for that to happen. But we CAN yield ourselves as servants to obey Him. Is that us? If it has not been, today is a perfect time to begin anew. A broken and a contrite heart God will not despise.

You see, we are ALWAYS servants...slaves... to something, either to sin unto death or to obedience unto righteousness. I think it was Andrew Murray who said:

"God is willing to take full responsibility for a life totally yielded to Him."

What a joy it is to be yoked with Christ. It IS a yoke, make no mistake, but ahhhh, what a yoke it is! Most likely, all of us have at one time or another, feared total abandonment to God, and His will for us, amen? Satan paints it as the worse thing ever and that we will be miserable. Liar.

God's will for us is that GOOD... and that PERFECT....and that ACCEPTABLE will of God. If God has a path He is wanting us to go down, the first thing He will work on and change is our "want to", and make us want what He is fixing to lay out before us..

My wife has a famous saying. If she does not want to do something, she says "I can't want to", LOL. Well, in the new man, we can. We can be changed to want to do His will, and then we can be caused to do it, and do it with joy. What an amazing salvation! What a glorious gospel! What an awesome God!

Blessings to all.

Gideon

 

[Frogster]

May I share a personal story? My father-in law from my first marriage was an avid duck hunter in Louisiana. His dog, a black lab, was named Dark Blu Thunder. The man and his dog were inseparable when Charlie was home. Blu was such a good hunter that Charlie began to train him for the National Field Trials. Six days a week, Charlie and Blu, who slept by the foot of his bed, would go out at 5:30in the morning, rain or shine, and do field work.

Charlie and Blu made it to Nationals and while most of the dog owners were not the dog trainers, they would go and compete with their "trained" dogs, complements of shock collars. That is the obedience of the law.

Do and you shall live (not get shocked). Law. Obey or you know what is coming. There was little life in the eyes of the dogs, or joy for that matter. There was no connection between dog and owner. It was a "business relationship".

Two hundred contestants at Nationals. One out of the 200 was an owner/handler...Charlie and Blu. No shock collar...ever. Blu was amazing, and even at seven, old for a dog, Blu approached trials as the most exciting thing imaginable, tail wagging, eyes bright in anticipation of Charlie's commands. Charlie and Blu finished third out of 200. Never before had an owner handler finished in the top 50.

That dog LOVED that man, and that man LOVED that dog. Obedience? You bet. Law? Not on your life. No "do and you shall live". The obedience empowered by love.

"Live and you shall do."

When Saul was on the road to Damascus, this young zealous Pharisee... a Pharisee of the Pharisees in his own words....was met by Jesus, the one Saul persecuted....face to face. Saul, the outwardly obedient man, met a higher power than law to bring forth REAL obedience in his life. His salvation was accompanied by no prayer of faith, no walking the aisle, no membership role. Eight words. In the form of a question.

"What would you have me to do, Lord?"

With these amazing words, victory was assured. They are the words of absolute surrender. Saul became Paul. A brand new man. Was Paul obedient?You bet. Was it through the law? Not a chance. No more was he Saul of Romans. He was Paul of Romans 8.

There can be no doubt, we cannot truly obey as God desires without a miracle. We need new natures, changed hearts, in order for that to happen. But we CAN yield ourselves as servants to obey Him. Is that us? If it has not been, today is a perfect time to begin anew. A broken and a contrite heart God will not despise.

You see, we are ALWAYS servants...slaves... to something, either to sin unto death or to obedience unto righteousness. I think it was Andrew Murray who said:

"God is willing to take full responsibility for a life totally yielded to Him."

What a joy it is to be yoked with Christ. It IS a yoke, make no mistake, but ahhhh, what a yoke it is! Most likely, all of us have at one time or another, feared total abandonment to God, and His will for us, amen? Satan paints it as the worse thing ever and that we will be miserable. Liar.

God's will for us is that GOOD... and that PERFECT....and that ACCEPTABLE will of God. If God has a path He is wanting us to go down, the first thing He will work on and change is our "want to", and make us want what He is fixing to lay out before us..

My wife has a famous saying. If she does not want to do something, she says "I can't want to", LOL. Well, in the new man, we can. We can be changed to want to do His will, and then we can be caused to do it, and do it with joy. What an amazing salvation! What a glorious gospel! What an awesome God!

Blessings to all.

Gideon

But, the point is, obedience centeredness is rule centeredness, command centeredness. I said on one post, not saying always, but, the dynamic is a real one. Why the dogmatism about obedience from so many people? Is the right and wrong mentality each day, the predominate feature in their lives?


Are commands everything?


Bro, one can be obedient to his Karate teacher. What does that make him? Sure, he is obedient, but it does not do much spiritually.

Again, there are obedient miltary people, but that does not increase spirituality.


again, something is wrong, if obedeince is front and center all the time, gee, they might as well carry a rule book.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

But, the point is, obedience centeredness is rule centeredness, command centeredness. I said on one post, not saying always, but, the dynamic is a real one. Why the dogmatism about obedience from so many people? Is the right and wrong mentality each day, the predominate feature in their lives?


Are commands everything?


Bro, one can be obedient to his Karate teacher. What does that make him? Sure, he is obedient, but it does not do much spiritually.

Again, there are obedient miltary people, but that does not increase spirituality.


again, something is wrong, if obedeince is front and center all the time, gee, they might as well carry a rule book.

No, "obedience centeredness" is not "rule centeredness"...

1 Peter 1:14
As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,

Matthew 28:20
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

1 Peter 1:2
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

John 14:15
If you love me, obey my commandments.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

1 John 5:3
Loving God means keeping his commandments

Man I could post multiple scriptures about how obedience is a sign of discipleship and love for God. How as God's children it is expected of us. Why can you not understand or accept that? You obey God because you love God. It is not something that you wake up everyday and say, "Well I must obey God today by doing this or that." But rather as you walk by the Spirit obedience will be a natural thing, you may not even notice you are being obedient but you are.

Then at times, you will have to decide between a hard right or an easy wrong. So in such times do you do the wrong thing because obedience is wrong? Do you choose the wrong because you are under grace and his grace covers you be willfully disobeying?

 

[Frogster]

No, "obedience centeredness" is not "rule centeredness"...

1 Peter 1:14
As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,

Matthew 28:20
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

1 Peter 1:2
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

John 14:15
If you love me, obey my commandments.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

1 John 5:3
Loving God means keeping his commandments

Man I could post multiple scriptures about how obedience is a sign of discipleship and love for God. How as God's children it is expected of us. Why can you not understand or accept that? You obey God because you love God. It is not something that you wake up everyday and say, "Well I must obey God today by doing this or that." But rather as you walk by the Spirit obedience will be a natural thing, you may not even notice you are being obedient but you are.

Then at times, you will have to decide between a hard right or an easy wrong. So in such times do you do the wrong thing because obedience is wrong? Do you choose the wrong because you are under grace and his grace covers you be willfully disobeying?

bro, you are wlecome to wake up wondering if you were obedient enough yesterday, and if you will be today. You said you hang your hat on works, not me.


Now, the point is, no one said to be disobedient, but that is not my center.


I have made great points on the thread.

Baptism, obedience, all of that, is not the highest goal, again, i gave examples of miltary guys, they can be obedeint too...so what? really, much to do about something that even unsaved do, they obey..gee...wow..what a goal, to be obedient...I can't wait for tomorrow to find out how good i do. I hope i don't blow it...

 

[Frogster]

No, "obedience centeredness" is not "rule centeredness"...

1 Peter 1:14
As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,

Matthew 28:20
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

1 Peter 1:2
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

John 14:15
If you love me, obey my commandments.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

1 John 5:3
Loving God means keeping his commandments

Man I could post multiple scriptures about how obedience is a sign of discipleship and love for God. How as God's children it is expected of us. Why can you not understand or accept that? You obey God because you love God. It is not something that you wake up everyday and say, "Well I must obey God today by doing this or that." But rather as you walk by the Spirit obedience will be a natural thing, you may not even notice you are being obedient but you are.

Then at times, you will have to decide between a hard right or an easy wrong. So in such times do you do the wrong thing because obedience is wrong? Do you choose the wrong because you are under grace and his grace covers you be willfully disobeying?

the red above is presumptive, incorrect, and redundant.

 

[gideons300]

But, the point is, obedience centeredness is rule centeredness, command centeredness. I said on one post, not saying always, but, the dynamic is a real one. Why the dogmatism about obedience from so many people? Is the right and wrong mentality each day, the predominate feature in their lives?


Are commands everything?


Bro, one can be obedient to his Karate teacher. What does that make him? Sure, he is obedient, but it does not do much spiritually.

Again, there are obedient miltary people, but that does not increase spirituality.


again, something is wrong, if obedeince is front and center all the time, gee, they might as well carry a rule book.

Is being a friend of Jesus everything to us? He said:

"You are my friends, if you do whatsoever I command you."

Are commands everything? Of course not. BUT, they are the foundation for everything. It is the obedience of love, not law.This is no small disagereement here, dear brother. Listen:

"Do you not know, that to whom you yield yourself servants to obey, his servant to are to whom you obey...whether of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness?"

Romans 6:16

If one continues to interpret the scriptures by his doctrine, rather than allowing the scriptures to become the foundation of his doctrine, the door is open for much error. The scriptures are clear in this regard. Obedience IS a benefit of the new covenant, BUT we must first yield ourselves to be changed so that we can see true obedience spring forth from us.

God is not asking for perfect saints, but He is asked for perfectly yielded ones.

Many blessings, Frog

Gids

 

[Alithis]

But, the point is, obedience centeredness is rule centeredness, command centeredness. I said on one post, not saying always, but, the dynamic is a real one. Why the dogmatism about obedience from so many people? Is the right and wrong mentality each day, the predominate feature in their lives?


Are commands everything?


Bro, one can be obedient to his Karate teacher. What does that make him? Sure, he is obedient, but it does not do much spiritually.

Again, there are obedient miltary people, but that does not increase spirituality.


again, something is wrong, if obedience is front and center all the time, gee, they might as well carry a rule book.

in actuality as he remains obedient he learns all his teacher can teach and becomes his teacher ..
and that is in the extremely limited concept of carnal thinking . but to be transformed into the image of Christ we remain obedient to the Spirit of Christ Jesus that we may be transformed into his image ..to be made as he is .

to keep it simple and uncomplicated ..the Lord Jesus said teach them obedience and also be obedient ..
you are saying ignore obedience ... and desiring to impose on us the rules of your interpretation .."your law" ..

to whom shall we listen ?
dont you think to present a simple matter in a confusing and complex way ,so confusing it appears as if you oppose obedience to god ..that you risk robbing them of the truth of His own words to us ..(which would be spiritual abuse according to some threads)

 

[Frogster]

Is being a friend of Jesus everything to us? He said:

"You are my friends, if you do whatsoever I command you."

Are commands everything? Of course not. BUT, they are the foundation for everything. It is the obedience of love, not law.This is no small disagereement here, dear brother. Listen:

"Do you not know, that to whom you yield yourself servants to obey, his servant to are to whom you obey...whether of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness?"

Romans 6:16

If one continues to interpret the scriptures by his doctrine, rather than allowing the scriptures to become the foundation of his doctrine, the door is open for much error. The scriptures are clear in this regard. Obedience IS a benefit of the new covenant, BUT we must first yield ourselves to be changed so that we can see true obedience spring forth from us.

God is not asking for perfect saints, but He is asked for perfectly yielded ones.

Many blessings, Frog

Gids

Hi bro, you know we are bro's, but the frog yielded a long time ago, i have walked in grace, and taught grace, i live grace. No, I am not bragging, but death, brought life, through the law, I died to self effort, now i live by faith, and it feels to wonderful, to live free, to go back to an obedience centered life. I am obedient, yes, but it is secondary. of course if the Lord asked the frog, or told the frog, do this or that, the frog would do it.

But i don't want to live under a rule book, not good.

ok, now the frog said he is obediedient, your turn gidster..

My question to you is, am i right, that obedience is fused to law, it has to be, and obedience centeredness can by symptomatic of law life?

PS,i am so sick oy typing out the obedience word! i must have 100 times already on this thread!

 

[SpearOfPhineas]

Well holiness is certainly requested of us. That takes obedience.

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1 Peter 1:16

 

[Alithis]

Well holiness is certainly requested of us. That takes obedience.

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1 Peter 1:16

it certainly does

 

[Frogster]

in actuality as he remains obedient he learns all his teacher can teach and becomes his teacher ..
and that is in the extremely limited concept of carnal thinking . but to be transformed into the image of Christ we remain obedient to the Spirit of Christ Jesus that we may be transformed into his image ..to be made as he is .

to keep it simple and uncomplicated ..the Lord Jesus said teach them obedience and also be obedient ..
you are saying ignore obedience ... and desiring to impose on us the rules of your interpretation .."your law" ..

to whom shall we listen ?
dont you think to present a simple matter in a confusing and complex way ,so confusing it appears as if you oppose obedience to god ..that you risk robbing them of the truth of His own words to us ..(which would be spiritual abuse according to some threads)

red above, have you not read, where it says in the gospel, the kingdom grew even when the farmer slept? Are you obedient in your sleep?

There are other verses thay say, God causes the growth in 1 Cor, and Eph and elsewhere, it is not earned by obedience, that would be works..

I don't get more transformed, only on a good day, besides, 2 Cor 3, was a juxtaposition against law, as you read it, it was saying how the New cov is not about the old glory, so you are incorrect, when you say we must be obedient to be transformed talking about 2 cor 3:18. That would contradict what Paul was showing in 2 Cor 3, the old was about earning by obedience.

Try to see freedom here too..


2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

 

[Alithis]

the understanding i have of "commands " of the lord Jesus is simply .. doing what he speaks to my heart about and being obedient to him because i know he loves me and desires the best for me and the best can only be reached by following the one who knows where it is ... so when he says .. this is the way ,walk in it i must obey him because he is holy and i revere him and it is wisdom .

-If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

-If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.15:10

-Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

-You are my friends if you do what I command you.

-As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,...

-But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men..

-Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.

-And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him...

-By faith Abraham OBEYED when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance.
-

and am i obedient in my sleep ? am i disobedient in my sleep ?-that's just irrelevant misdirection .

all he has done on the cross he has done to restore me to perfect relationship with him .Every one and everything will ultimately OBEY God

 

[Frogster]

it certainly does

holiness was given to us, Peter said it was the power given to us, and a divine nature. We did not get the new man by obedeince, that would be works.

2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to[c] his own glory and excellence,[d] 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

 

[Frogster]

the andertsanding i haveof "commands " of the lord jesus is simply .. doing what he speaks to my heart about and being obedient to him becaseu i know he loves me and desires the best for me and the best can only be reached by following the one who knows where it is ... so when he says .. this is the way ,walk in it i must obey him because he is holy and i revere him and it is wisdom .

-If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

-If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.15:10

-Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

-You are my friends if you do what I command you.

-As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,...

-But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men..

-Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.

-And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him...

-By faith Abraham OBEYED when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance.-

lol...please don't turn Abe into law, Paul used him as grace, besides, he lied about his wife, he was disobedient!

 

[Alithis]

holiness was given to us, Peter said it was the power given to us, and a divine nature. We did not get the new man by obedience, that would be works.

2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to[c] his own glory and excellence,[d] 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

"become " partakers .. not already ARE . HE IMPUTED Righteousness he did not impute "holiness", which means to be set apart unto God .. some are undoubtedly more set apart then others ..
we obey because that's what the righteous do ..

stop fighting it

 

[Alithis]

lol...please don't turn Abe into law, Paul used him as grace, besides, he lied about his wife, he was disobedient!

ever the diversionary agent .. pick out an irrelevant point and highlight it .but sorry, it does not cancel the plain simple Truth that obedience is an absolute that cannot be annulled .

 

[jiminpa]

You might need to supply a paragraph or two of his material as I would say that when someone refers to anything as being the 'A.B.C's' that they are trying to say that they must never be discarded or ignored.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that.

 

[Biblicist]

but I was right about stoicheion. you don't have to forget them, but to move on out of elementalism is scriptural.

No, as I explained (somewhere) that you had incorrectly applied your own understanding to that particular Greek word and compounded your mistake by pushing the word (with its new meaning) back into the text; that definitely is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[Biblicist]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that.

Yes, it does seem that you are right. So, being the absolutely wonderful person that I am, I decided to do a search where I came up with the following article by Wiersbe:

The Wiersbe Bible Commentary: New Testament, Warren W. Wiersbe, David C Cook (page 564)

"Paul states that the Jews were, like little children, in bondage to “the elements of the world. ” This word elements means “the basic principles, the ABCs.” For some fifteen centuries, Israel had been in kindergarten and grade school, learning their “spiritual ABCs, ” so that they would be ready when Christ would come. Then they would get the full revelation, for Jesus Christ is “the Alpha and the Omega” (Rev. 22: 13); He encompasses all the alphabet of Gods revelation to man. He is Gods last Word (Heb. 1:1—3)".​

If this is what Froggy is referring to, then Wiersbe is certainly not saying what Froggy has suggested, all that Wiersbe has said is that Israel was in bondage to the elements of the world which has nothing to do with the fundamentals of the Christian walk.