Does the bible ever declare that being black is a curse from God??

[joneysd]

They weren't banned. The first to clearly say anything on the subject, Brigham Young, also said they would receive the priesthood but would be last to do so. That is not necessarily a bad thing in the gospel. "And the last shall be first, and the first last, for many are called but few chosen."
Now God "banned" various ethnic groups from the house of the Lord for various period of time - that is Biblical.
God "banned" women from the priesthood, but I don't see you jumping up and down and calling Him sexist.

yet on this very thread countless quotes have been shown that say there was a ban on blacks, I can't bring myself to say the neg.. word it is so offensive, gaining the priesthood, the evidence of that ban seems to out way your protestations, you cannot declare someone a true prophet when they seem to get it right and they just speak as a man when they get it wrong, they either represent God or they do not and the bible is very clear on what to do is someone or anyone says something will come to pass in the name of God and it does not.

 

[RevelationTestament]

yet on this very thread countless quotes have been shown that say there was a ban on blacks, I can't bring myself to say the neg.. word it is so offensive, gaining the priesthood, the evidence of that ban seems to out way your protestations, you cannot declare someone a true prophet when they seem to get it right and they just speak as a man when they get it wrong, they either represent God or they do not and the bible is very clear on what to do is someone or anyone says something will come to pass in the name of God and it does not.

Negro is offensive? Any word can be "made" offensive. But this word is just the name of a race. It still appears on employment applications, etc. I believe Ni[er] is offensive, but black guys use it all the time.

"Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou was a stranger in his land. The children that are begotten of them shall enter into the congregation of the LORD in their third generation." Deuteronomy 23:7-8. "An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation... because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee." Deuteronomy 23:3-4.
Was Moses a prophet? Did he give the law to keep people out of the house of the Lord? Was he a racist? After all he married an Ethiopian woman.

 

[joneysd]

Negro is offensive? Any word can be "made" offensive. But this word is just the name of a race. It still appears on employment applications, etc. I believe Ni[er] is offensive, but black guys use it all the time.

"Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou was a stranger in his land. The children that are begotten of them shall enter into the congregation of the LORD in their third generation." Deuteronomy 23:7-8. "An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation... because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee." Deuteronomy 23:3-4.
Was Moses a prophet? Did he give the law to keep people out of the house of the Lord? Was he a racist? After all he married an Ethiopian woman.

I think neg.. is very offensive it only has negative connotations.

I have heard two black guys having a big argument and using the nig... term but that does not make it right.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Words just have meanings people place on them or people accept. Gay used to be a good word, but now has negative connotations in many minds unless one is gay. [did I mean happy?] I noticed you avoided the scriptural points. That's ok. Sometimes people do not understand the Lord.

 

[joneysd]

Words just have meanings people place on them or people accept. Gay used to be a good word, but now has negative connotations in many minds unless one is gay. [did I mean happy?] I noticed you avoided the scriptural points. That's ok. Sometimes people do not understand the Lord.

words and there meanings certainly do change but the biggest pointer to what the meaning behind the word truly is can be discovered by the context that the word was placed in and in the use of the word neg.. the whole message was clearly evil, racist and very unloving.

the scriptures you quote do not prove your point when taken in context, you can use smoke and mirrors all you wish yet you cannot hide from the fact you declared God to be racist.

 

[RevelationTestament]

words and there meanings certainly do change but the biggest pointer to what the meaning behind the word truly is can be discovered by the context that the word was placed in and in the use of the word neg.. the whole message was clearly evil, racist and very unloving.

the scriptures you quote do not prove your point when taken in context, you can use smoke and mirrors all you wish yet you cannot hide from the fact you declared God to be racist.

I did no such thing, and now find you to just be another unreasonable poster. God is not racist, but He has cursed groups of people - that is unmistakable. Do you believe He killed the earth in a flood? And he has warned the whole earth can be cursed in Malachi. I am not racist either, and once dated a black woman, a half-Jewish woman, etc. I've had oriental friends, etc. I've never excluded anyone who wanted to be my friend.

 

[joneysd]

I did no such thing, and now find you to just be another unreasonable poster. God is not racist, but He has cursed groups of people - that is unmistakable. Do you believe He killed the earth in a flood? And he has warned the whole earth can be cursed in Malachi. I am not racist either, and once dated a black woman, a half-Jewish woman, etc. I've had oriental friends, etc. I've never excluded anyone who wanted to be my friend.

when i said you i was referring to the organisation you hold an allegiance too.

the fact that they claim to be the only authority on the earth when they declare God said blacks to be banned from the priesthood they are saying God is racist, unless they are now denying they arethe only authority on earth.

 

[korvus]

I did no such thing, and now find you to just be another unreasonable poster. God is not racist, but He has cursed groups of people - that is unmistakable. Do you believe He killed the earth in a flood? And he has warned the whole earth can be cursed in Malachi. I am not racist either, and once dated a black woman, a half-Jewish woman, etc. I've had oriental friends, etc. I've never excluded anyone who wanted to be my friend.

Curious, can you make a list of these groups of people cursed by God?

 

[2ducklow]

1. Blacks of India, Asia, Native American's, Central South America, Islands, many of whom were JUST AS BLACK as any "African" Black WAS GIVEN THE PRIESTHOOD.

2. The ban ONLY applied to those of African Lineage, period.

3. Even some whites were denied the priesthood.

4. All other races, no matter the "color" was given the Priesthood.

5. All races in Mormonism worshiped together, there was NEVER Segregation, unlike most others.

6. Mormons were Abolitionists. In fact, a lot of the early anti-mormonism wasn't simply due to the religion, but because of their voting power compared to the locals.

- Did a mormon ever say something wrong, yes?

- Did some assume "reasons" for the Doctrine that were wrong, yes?

- Was there ever a racist Mormon, yes?

- Did Mormonism teach TOLERANCE of all races and peoples, and did/do most mormons live that way, yes?

- Did and do enemy's of Mormonism pervert some statements by LDS leaders, taking them out of context to make them say things they aren't saying, yes?

- Did and do the enemy's or Mormonism OMIT LDS history, teachings, etc. that clearly demonstrate a LACK of racism in order to make their racism claims, yes?

- Do the enemy's of Mormonism

A mormon in another thread just said us pentecostals babble and don't really speak in tongues, if everyone who says stuff like that to me is an enemy of mine, then practically everyone in CF is my enemy, No one agrees 100 percent with me and most everyone says rought things like 'babble' about my beliefs, or even worse. People just get hot headed when debating, they aren't your enemies. They aren't out planting bombs in lds churches, or going door to door seeking out mromons to invalidate, and most of um don't even debate with mormons they meet in real life. on line debate is a diffferent world . People say what they think in here cause it's so easy, in real life most everyone is way more cautious in engaging their tongue as easily as they do here in cf unorthodox. I betcha most of the people you debate with on mormons stuff if you meet um in real life you guys wouldn't say diddly about mormon beliefs. in the real world if eveyone said exactly what they thought all the time like they do here in cf unorthodox, man people would gbe choking each other all over the place on every street corner. guns a blazin and knives unfurled everywhere.

ignore the fact that racism against the black man, namely the black African ENDED the same exact time the ban was lifted, ignoring that it's likely not a coincidence, that maybe God was in charge all along, and he was waiting for the white man to get a brain, yes?

kinda sensitive aren't you? so you're saying mormons get a bad rep on this issue. I agree mormons aint the only racists out there, and that not all mormons are racists. I think you mormons get some flack on this issue cause you had it codified whereas most white churches didn't. Blacks didn't go into white baptist churches cause they didn't feel welcome, not cause there was a church law prohibiting blacks. Just a guess. I'm not your enemy, i don't believe like you mormons do but I hardly ever even think about or talk about mormons. I don't even know much about mormons.
splinter mormon groups though likethe one in texas where that guy Jeff something was beddin all the women and running the young folks so he could have the teen chicks too does turn my stomach some though. kinda makes ya feel sick to even think of that one. I mean that's really way way off the deep end. glad they realed that Jeff fella end cause he was really spinnin out of control.

My impression, and it may be wrong, is the splinter groups are more dedicated and literal in following the book of mormons than lds are. but like I said I don't really know much about mormons.

 

[JoJo50]

I was told it does and I cannot find the scripture to support it...

Sad, that person which told you that obliviously didn't know Jehovah God's words. Because he's a God of love, (1John 4:8). so why would he even say ANY race will be a curse? Besides that, his words shows he doesn't look and any race differently than another. Many say many things in order to justify their wicked actions. It's satan who misleads mankind with tricks and lies. This is why Jehovah God warns us to stick to him ,(Ephe. 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles, (tricks) of the devil). So that we may know how satan works ,(2Cor. 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices). peace

 

[JoJo50]

Because the Holy Spirit is the author of scripture, to lie so blatantly about His work is blasphemy against Him.

i'm sorry ,but the HS ISN'T “ author of scripture”, it's THROUGH the HS that men wrote what's now in the book called bible. It's the God of Israel , Jehovah ,(Exo.6:3), that gave men words in which to write ,(Jer. 30:1,2 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book). And ( Jer. 1:9 Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth).



(1Cor. 2:12,13 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual). Everything we receive is BY MEANS of Jehovah God, though his HS. Basically it's his POWER or WILL which make things happen. The HS ISN'T third part of Jehovah God and Jesus. It's a false teaching. Research shows how the “trinity”, originated.



Jesus show this when he told us what we needed to do in order to gain life ,(John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent). He didn't say we had to know a “third being.” And when he said at ,(John 10:30 “I and my Father are one”). IF there was a trinity, why didn't Jesus mention it as being part of him and his Father? How about here?,...(John 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also), he didn't mention this third being. Again Jesus said... (Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father). Why wasn't this third being even mentioned? peace

 

[JoJo50]

There is none--some people can go on and on about how the Canaanites were cursed by God, because they sprang from Noah's son Ham, who saw his nakedness. And Noah said "Cursed be Canaan,a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." And that the curse was they were made black---only problem is--the bible never says that! It does say what area the Canaanites
covered after the flood-Gen 10:11 (and the names of the peoples that came out of Canaan in the verses prior to that) and Sodom and Gomorrha were cities mentioned--not in Africa. The Canaanites was the people that had the land that God later gave to the Jews. There is no biblical basis for racism.
And in the Song of Solomon, are several verses about her being black. And I know that this is all supposed to be about the love between God and His people/church--I've just never seen a church with breasts! And if it is about God and His people, and she is black--all the more reason to not be racist!!

that's so true!

 

[joneysd]

the BOM does certainly support racism though as do the comments that various apostles etc have made.

 

[RevelationTestament]

the BOM does certainly support racism though as do the comments that various apostles etc have made.

No it doesn't.
The Book of Mormon says:

2 Nephi 26:33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

 

[joneysd]

No it doesn't.
The Book of Mormon says:

2 Nephi 26:33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

I think enough proof has been given on the subject including plenty of quotes from LDS people.

 

[Rescued One]

Well said. But in the case of the Mormon Scripture, God is represented as turning people black as a curse and so that they would not entice his white and delightsome people. One is not twisting this passage in the Book of Mormon to see the inherent racism.

2 Nephi 5:21
And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

This is a more foundational racism that individual adherents of Mormonism holding racist views. It attributes racism to GOD.

I attend a multi-racial and multi-ethnic church. Our senior pastor has four adopted kids including white black and biracial. Heaven is not a racist place, I believe, there will be delightsome redeemed folks with a range of skin color eternally worshiping Him.

2 Nephi 5:21 endorses racism, IMO. The LDS church can renounce racism officially (and that is good) but it should also renounce 2 Nephi 5:21 and lament the presentation of a deity who views black skin as a curse and not delightsome.

Well said.

 

[Rescued One]

Absolutely there is. Christians used to use the story of Ham as their reasoning for why segregation exists. Sexism and racism ARE two very different things, but they are also similiar in that they both have been defensed using Scripture.

They are deceivers, not Christians!

 

[Rescued One]

I do understand that in your own experience you haven't encountered Christian racists.

Proof that anyone claiming to be a Christian, yet being a racist, is a LIAR:

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1 John 5:1

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1 John 4:8

Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
1 John 3:15

 

[Rescued One]

Acts 17:11

 

[Rescued One]

I don't know about you but I had plenty of my own sins to make me guilty.

Ditto! When I accidentally let my baby brother roll off the bed, I told my mother that I didn't know why he was crying.