Does Orthodoxy subscribe to this?

Light of the East

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It seems to me that if the point of ascesis is to detach ourselves from the world and strive to bring our souls into union with God through that detachment, then there should be many paths to take in accordance with the individual need of the soul.

In other words, what would work well for one person would be a waste of time for another (and most likely lead to the sin of being greatly annoyed with God).
 
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Gurney’s simple advice for the day to
OP—-stop reading Father Thomas Merton....replace him with Father Thomas Hopko, Father Alexander Schmemann, Father John Meyendorff, Bishop Kallistos Ware, Father Seraphim Rose, or a host of better choices.

You’re looking East, but reading West.
 
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Light of the East

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Gurney’s simple advice for the day to
OP—-stop reading Father Thomas Merton....replace him with Father Thomas Hopko, Father Alexander Schmemann, Father John Meyendorff, Bishop Kallistos Ware, Father Seraphim Rose, or a host of better choices.

You’re looking East, but reading West.

In order to make the detachment from Western thinking, it is necessary that I read things from the West in order to critique them. I do read Orthodox books and listen regularly to AFR. Some of my favorite priests on AFR are Fr. Patrick Reardon, Fr. Steven Freeman, Fr. Barnabas Powell, and Abbot Tryphon.
 
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You must do what you think is best and come to Orthodoxy in your own way. You’re right. For me, I had watched a series of errors give me spiritual stomach cramps.

Indulgences
Purgatory
Papal supremacy
Papal infallibility
Forced celibacy
The Nicholatian Schism
The Filioque
Honorius and heretical monothelitism
Scholasticism
Created grace
Unleavened Eucharist
Legalism
Weirdness like the stabat mater
Awful liturgical abuse
Buttering up to Islam
Liberation theology
Christ the Victim instead of Christ the Victor
Fatima
Donation of Constantine

The papacy is nothing like what it claims, and historically it takes very little reading to figure out Catholicism is untenable and Orthodoxy is clearly “it.” So why keep reading Catholic writers, mystics, Saints, and priests? I think it’ll only make your split harder, more drawn-out, and more laborious. But, like I said, we all have our own processes. A clean break and less clinging would be my approach!

In order to make the detachment from Western thinking, it is necessary that I read things from the West in order to critique them. I do read Orthodox books and listen regularly to AFR. Some of my favorite priests on AFR are Fr. Patrick Reardon, Fr. Steven Freeman, Fr. Barnabas Powell, and Abbot Tryphon.
 
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Been happily married for almost 18 years, brother!

Are you married again now, @gurneyhallek1? I'd swear that your status said "divorced" last week. Or was I only seeing things?
 
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It seems to me that if the point of ascesis is to detach ourselves from the world and strive to bring our souls into union with God through that detachment, then there should be many paths to take in accordance with the individual need of the soul.

In other words, what would work well for one person would be a waste of time for another (and most likely lead to the sin of being greatly annoyed with God).
I think that sometimes, or maybe even many times, a worldly person is an ascetic without even realizing it. A devout Orthodox friend of mine who's my age and is diversely talented to a degree that would likely allow him to work in any field of his choice. Yet, he remains in the same job in the same nasty factory simply because the pay is greater than the pay he would earn if he left to go somewhere else and do something nicer. He doesn't care about money or material things, rather, his only concern seems to be what he should do to please the Lord. The money he earns is to be used to provide for his wife in her old age, as he claims he will not be here in this world for very many more years. He gives whatever more he earns than he figures needs to be saved either to His parish or to the poor. His skin is usually dried out and itchy because of long hours spent working in the cold air, or else his skin is burned and scarred by the powdered limestone he's exposed to at work, as a material used in that manufacturing process. In the winter time his fingers are often frozen to numbness due to poor circulation in them, and burning in pain whenever they are being thawed out. This is only a fraction of the hardships and discomfort he chooses to accept on the path that he's convinced God wills for him to walk. Time doesn't allow a full description of all that he does.

The thing is though, that he himself mostly fails to realize how much he suffers or the extent of his sacrifice, because he is convinced that he must do more to please God because he is not by any means worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven. This particular friend of mine is not the only one I know who is like this -- not at all. There are many such ascetics living and serving God in the world. We sure would do well to have more though.

I think so anyhow.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I think that sometimes, or maybe even many times, a worldly person is an ascetic without even realizing it. A devout Orthodox friend of mine who's my age and is diversely talented to a degree that would likely allow him to work in any field of his choice. Yet, he remains in the same job in the same nasty factory simply because the pay is greater than the pay he would earn if he left to go somewhere else and do something nicer. He doesn't care about money or material things, rather, his only concern seems to be what he should do to please the Lord. The money he earns is to be used to provide for his wife in her old age, as he claims he will not be here in this world for very many more years. He gives whatever more he earns than he figures needs to be saved either to His parish or to the poor. His skin is usually dried out and itchy because of long hours spent working in the cold air, or else his skin is burned and scarred by the powdered limestone he's exposed to at work, as a material used in that manufacturing process. In the winter time his fingers are often frozen to numbness due to poor circulation in them, and burning in pain whenever they are being thawed out. This is only a fraction of the hardships and discomfort he chooses to accept on the path that he's convinced God wills for him to walk. Time doesn't allow a full description of all that he does.

The thing is though, that he himself mostly fails to realize how much he suffers or the extent of his sacrifice, because he is convinced that he must do more to please God because he is not by any means worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven. This particular friend of mine is not the only one I know who is like this -- not at all. There are many such ascetics living and serving God in the world. We sure would do well to have more though.

I think so anyhow.

that's a lot like a guy named Simeon from Greece. just a simple, pure soul whose job was helping people cart their stuff from a harbor. the cart was also one he had to push himself. and he is on the list to be glorified and added to the calendar.
 
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that's a lot like a guy named Simeon from Greece. just a simple, pure soul whose job was helping people cart their stuff from a harbor. the cart was also one he had to push himself. and he is on the list to be glorified and added to the calendar.
Glory to God for that.
 
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Mary of Bethany

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Are you married again now, @gurneyhallek1? I'd swear that your status said "divorced" last week. Or was I only seeing things?

I saw it, too. I knew it couldn't be right - glad it's fixed.
 
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Jesus4Madrid

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You must do what you think is best and come to Orthodoxy in your own way. You’re right. For me, I had watched a series of errors give me spiritual stomach cramps.

Indulgences
Purgatory
Papal supremacy
Papal infallibility
Forced celibacy
The Nicholatian Schism
The Filioque
Honorius and heretical monothelitism
Scholasticism
Created grace
Unleavened Eucharist
Legalism
Weirdness like the stabat mater
Awful liturgical abuse
Buttering up to Islam
Liberation theology
Christ the Victim instead of Christ the Victor
Fatima
Donation of Constantine

The papacy is nothing like what it claims, and historically it takes very little reading to figure out Catholicism is untenable and Orthodoxy is clearly “it.” So why keep reading Catholic writers, mystics, Saints, and priests? I think it’ll only make your split harder, more drawn-out, and more laborious. But, like I said, we all have our own processes. A clean break and less clinging would be my approach!
This list, along with the Immaculate Conception, constitutes almost a replica of my List of Catholic Cognative Dissonance—issues that would have eaten me from the inside if, back in the day, I had become RC.
 
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Jesus4Madrid

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Been happily married for almost 18 years, brother!
Glad you are back together according to TAW. I was fictitiously a Democrat who subscribed to evolution as well, though all seems to be back to normal for Christmas.
 
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When it comes to divorce, my views aren't that far off from Rusmeister. I personally think Orthodoxy is way too lenient and yielding to modernism when it comes to divorce. They need, imho, a touch less economia, and a bit more of a crack-down. It would take A LOT for me to divorce my wife. I can't fathom it.

Ahah! So maybe I'm not going crazy after all! Thanks be to God!
 
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Hermit76

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This list, along with the Immaculate Conception, constitutes almost a replica of my List of Catholic Cognative Dissonance—issues that would have eaten me from the inside if, back in the day, I had become RC.

I'm glad to hear you say this. The temptation to join the large, active, local Catholic parish is great because it would be much easier than a 1:15 drive. However, I can visualize myself sitting in Mass one Sunday, breaking out in a sweat, miserable, and contemplating my escape. (I know this is what happens because it is what happened when I joined an Evangelical Church for convenience)
 
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Light of the East

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When it comes to divorce, my views aren't that far off from Rusmeister. I personally think Orthodoxy is way too lenient and yielding to modernism when it comes to divorce. They need, imho, a touch less economia, and a bit more of a crack-down. It would take A LOT for me to divorce my wife. I can't fathom it.

This is one deep concern I have with Orthodoxy. I don't understand how one can read the considerably clear words of our Lord regarding divorce and remarriage as a commission of adultery and yet decide to allow for such as part of an "economia of the Church."

Troubling.
 
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~Anastasia~

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This is one deep concern I have with Orthodoxy. I don't understand how one can read the considerably clear words of our Lord regarding divorce and remarriage as a commission of adultery and yet decide to allow for such as part of an "economia of the Church."

Troubling.
It is probably my biggest concern as well.

Not that we have ekonomia - because I believe in some instances it is better for the soul of the persons involved to allow divorce and even remarriage. But I am tempted to think it is granted too easily sometimes.

There is no perfection where this is concerned. Catholics are no more right by (1) never allowing it and so missing the point that sometimes it may be better, and (2) allowing it in practice in a way that just creates other problems, through annullment.

They might be a little more difficult to get than Orthodox permission to divorce/remarry (I'm not even sure, that's just the impression I get). But otherwise I think they don't have it right.
 
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ArmyMatt

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This is one deep concern I have with Orthodoxy. I don't understand how one can read the considerably clear words of our Lord regarding divorce and remarriage as a commission of adultery and yet decide to allow for such as part of an "economia of the Church."

Troubling.

it's because people don't properly see the distinction between the rule (which is strict), and the pastoral application of the rule (which may be more lenient or more strict). the other problem is in Murica we tend to think our opinion matters.
 
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Personally I think a lot of it just gets down to the sad society we live in. If the parish churches told couples they needed to undergo spiritual/marital counseling with their priest for several months first before even considering granting a divorce, many couples would leave the Church and go elsewhere. Yeah, that's sad. But it's true. The Catholic Church is no better though. Even though Catholicism "doesn't have divorce," the marriage tribunals in the U.S. amount to nothing but a committee of rubber-stampers who could care less. Basically everyone gets through it. So on paper the Catholics look tough on the issue, in real life, not so much. I guess Orthodoxy seeks to be more honest in a broken society, but that still offers me little comfort. If this issue is troubling you, though, then I suggest reading a book called "Marriage: An Orthodox Perspective" by one of my favorite priests of the 20th Century--Father Meyendorff. He was my own priest's Confessor Priest at seminary in the early 1980's!!! Father Meyendorff's book "Primacy of Peter" basically cemented my conversion to the East. This book about marriage was excellent as well. It focuses on the practicality of marriage and family and how economia plays into it. Get the book used for $8.00 or check it out at the library somewhere. Great book that might close some gaps for you.

But I will say, staying Catholic won't solve the angst against divorce either.

In the end, except for the practicality of having many Catholic parishes near my home within reasonable range, there was not ONE SINGLE REASON for me to stay Catholic. Divorce was low on my food chain, but I think the Orthodox explanation from Meyendorff helped. In addition, I've learned in my 42 brief years on this Earth that DELIVERY and STATEMENT OF FAITH are two different things. There isn't one parish in the U.S. or on this planet that doesn't have some issue or drama. Trust me.


This is one deep concern I have with Orthodoxy. I don't understand how one can read the considerably clear words of our Lord regarding divorce and remarriage as a commission of adultery and yet decide to allow for such as part of an "economia of the Church."

Troubling.
 
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