Does one need to be baptized in order to be saved?

[Nobody1]

Some say you must be baptized in order to be saved. Others say although baptism is very important, it is not imperative in order to be saved. What say you?

Whatever your conscience says.

What is required is the true baptism in the Holy Spirit which the Father willingly gives to anyone who asks.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Some say you must be baptized in order to be saved. Others say although baptism is very important, it is not imperative in order to be saved. What say you?

This very question is seen in the scenario of a guy who does the basics of salvation, and on his way to getting baptized, dies (stroke, hit by a car, ect.). Which way does he go? I am saying up myself. Actual baptism is not required, but a desire to not be baptized does not bode well.

 

[lawtonfogle]

The argument is that the thief on the cross was under old testament law because Christ had not died yet. And Christ has the power to forgive sins as He did with others, even without baptism. But, that once He died that baptism is now the only way to be saved. In Mark 16:16 Jesus says, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Christ died before the thief, so the thief was under new covenant.

And the verse you quoted does not say 'but he who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned'. It doesn't actually covers what happens when one believes but is not baptized.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I am not interested in what other say, I am only interested in what Bible says.

Notice what Jesus said:

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

The Great Commission as it is called has Jesus telling us how to make disciples of Christ. Jesus also said:

Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus said that belief and baptism are required to be saved. You cannot grammatically separate these two things because they are bound together by the word and. Jesus’ disciples did not disappoint because at the birth of the church in Acts 2 Peter told the Jews exactly what they needed to do be saved:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Again, you cannot separate these two things and baptism is the point at which your sins are forgiven. Hence no baptism, no forgiveness of sins. Just read through the book of acts and you will find two things that are mentioned when someone was converted to Christ: belief and baptism.

There is nothing magical about the water, it simply the place God has said you will come in contact with the cleansing power of Jesus blood (Rev. 1:5). Being baptized is not a work of man, but a work of God. As Paul says:

Colossians 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

When you submit yourself to baptism and put your faith in the working of God, you can know that you are being buried with Christ and united in His death. Your old man is being put to death (Rom. 6) and God is washing away your sins with the blood of Jesus (Just like Paul Acts 22:16). When you come up from the water you can know that you have been raised from spiritual death caused by your sin and you been raised alive together with Jesus as a new creature in Christ without your sins.

Since you must put faith in the working of God for this to happen, it means you must know what you are doing, which rules out being baptized as baby or young child without understanding.

This why Peter said:

1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us -- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Peter couldn’t make it clearer baptism is necessary for salvation and it is an answer of good conscience to God, which means we must know what we are doing when are being baptized, otherwise we just get wet.

The Bible, not me, teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation.

So there are no death bed conversions then? Really, God would be fickle enough to deny salvation on a technicality of not getting water? What next, oops, your shows were muddy when you walked in the church, no salvation for you? The Bible spoke of the general case where people would be able to be baptized, not as an absolute law. In other words, if you got the chance, then you did baptize. If you didn't, then I guess that means you were killed before you could. This also contradicts no works needed, as baptism is a work. If salvation requires baptism, then in part, it required a work of man.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Unborn babies and those who have not reached the age of accountablity do not have be baptized to be saved because they are not capable of understanding what they must do to be saved. This would include the mentally challenged and the like. Everyone else must.

By the verse you quoted: Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Sorry, no room in heaven for aborted babies, young children, or mentally challenged.

Suddenly you want to make this rule you were preaching as hard core more of a general guide line, when it suites your agenda. Either it sticks hard and fast, and all babies go to hell, or it is a general guide line, and water baptism is not a requirement.

 

[lawtonfogle]

First of all what is babtism?

Second, you only assume that the thief on the cross was previously baptized by John. Where is your Scriptural proof?

Third Jesus says in Matthew 10:32 and 33 that he who confesses Him before men He will confess before the Father.

Rom. 10:9-10 It states that one who believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth will be saved. Why did the gospel writer leave out baptism?

Why was Jesus baptized? He certainly did not sin, and had nothing to repent for. He needed no remission of sins, because He was sinless!

I do not want to offend you, but I am attempting to show you a more excellent way. I firmly believe that almost every denomination that originated from the doctrinal differences over baptism have gotten it wrong. My purpose is to cause you to dig a little deeper! Quit teaching the doctrines of men and really see what the Scriptures say. Most of us have been taught garbage that causes division in the church over this very subject! I've had to study this out in much prayer to be able to shed light on this divisive issue! Having said that, I'm not going to give you the conclusion yet, because I want you to reasonably question where you could be wrong!

That is why I am asking you some very leading questions, in order to provoke you to think beyond what you have already been taught.

After reading your statement, let me ask you!

Has Jesus lost the power to forgive sins now that He has ascended to the Father?

The Bible accounts that the three men on the cross all died. It does not give a definite timeline of who died first. Suppose the thief died last, after Jesus died, was he saved?

Actually, Crucifixion was a very slow death. Jesus died very quickly, they were cutting the legs of the other men to hurry up their deaths (meaning they were still alive) for the Passover, yet Jesus was already dead. Thus, Jesus died first.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

Quick question.

If baptism is a requirement for salvation, what's the point of the cross?

Just curious,

A Wright

 

[JerryChristian]

Whatever your conscience says.

What is required is the true baptism in the Holy Spirit which the Father willingly gives to anyone who asks.

Ok, does one have to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be saved?

When does that take place? How does one become baptized in the Holy Spirit?

 

[JerryChristian]

Actually, Crucifixion was a very slow death. Jesus died very quickly, they were cutting the legs of the other men to hurry up their deaths (meaning they were still alive) for the Passover, yet Jesus was already dead. Thus, Jesus died first.

Ok, if Jesus died first and was already dead, then did the thief on the cross have to be baptized in order to be saved? The plan of salvation was completed when Jesus died, is this correct?

 

[JerryChristian]

Quick question.

If baptism is a requirement for salvation, what's the point of the cross?

Just curious,

A Wright

Some would say that the cross was good but it did not accomplis the plan of salvation, because you still must believe and be baptized for the washing away of sins. Without that baptism for the remission of sins then you are not saved. What say you?

 

[JerryChristian]

By the verse you quoted: Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Sorry, no room in heaven for aborted babies, young children, or mentally challenged.

Suddenly you want to make this rule you were preaching as hard core more of a general guide line, when it suites your agenda. Either it sticks hard and fast, and all babies go to hell, or it is a general guide line, and water baptism is not a requirement.

Let's address being born of the water and the Spirit: Many would say being born of water is what you are when you are birthed from the womb of your mother. You are birthed from a womb filled with water, and this does not signify water baptism at all. And that being born of the Spirit is when you become born again, thus the born-again experience. Others say being born of the water is when you are baptized, and then you are born of the Spirit and that is being born again! What say you?

Please do not misunderstand, I am not opposing your position, I am asking questions from both sides of the argument in order to gain your perspective also.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

Some would say that the cross was good but it did not accomplis the plan of salvation, because you still must believe and be baptized for the washing away of sins. Without that baptism for the remission of sins then you are not saved. What say you?

It seems to me that we get bogged down in the mechanics of the redemptive process (among many other doctrinal issues). Sometimes I wish God would've produced a salvation flow-chart just to put these exercises to bed once and for all.

As to the point at hand, I believe anything that attempts to demote the blood of Christ from its rightful place as the ONLY source for the washing away of our sins is in error. I believe the rightly divided Word of God shows this without question.

That's my short answer. Any further elaboration will take time that I do not currently have (I'm at work atm) and, frankly, I grow weary of the "doubtful disputations" on these time worn issues.

I had a confessed moment of weakness when I posted that question... Used to be quite the debater (fighter?) back in the day. Old habits die hard.

ASW

 

[JerryChristian]

Christ died before the thief, so the thief was under new covenant.

And the verse you quoted does not say 'but he who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned'. It doesn't actually covers what happens when one believes but is not baptized.

We're in agreement, it very clearly states that belief is the crucial part, when in the second half of the text, it states, " he who does not believe is condemned. It does not say anything about baptism in that second half, which leads one to believe that the main element to this verse is belief. So the question remains. If one believes but is not baptized, is he saved?

 

[JerryChristian]

It seems to me that we get bogged down in the mechanics of the redemptive process (among many other doctrinal issues). Sometimes I wish God would've produced a salvation flow-chart just to put these exercises to bed once and for all.

As to the point at hand, I believe anything that attempts to demote the blood of Christ from its rightful place as the ONLY source for the washing away of our sins is in error. I believe the rightly divided Word of God shows this without question.

That's my short answer. Any further elaboration will take time that I do not currently have (I'm at work atm) and, frankly, I grow weary of the "doubtful disputations" on these time worn issues.

I had a confessed moment of weakness when I posted that question... Used to be quite the debater (fighter?) back in the day. Old habits die hard.

ASW

I know what you mean! I am not opposing your position, in fact I agree with you. ""Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins" That does not imply that baptism washes away sins, or can cause the remittance of sins. Believing and accepting that Jesus died for your sins through the shedding of His own blood is what washes away sins.

 

[cougan]

This very question is seen in the scenario of a guy who does the basics of salvation, and on his way to getting baptized, dies (stroke, hit by a car, ect.). Which way does he go? I am saying up myself. Actual baptism is not required, but a desire to not be baptized does not bode well.

It does not matter if God makes an exception in the case you present because it has nothing to do you or anyone else that can be baptized, but refuse to. How can you say baptism is not required and then say if you don’t get baptized it does not bode well. Either you have to do it or you don’t. Either its necessary or its not. You cannot have it both ways.

Christ died before the thief, so the thief was under new covenant.

And the verse you quoted does not say 'but he who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned'. It doesn't actually covers what happens when one believes but is not baptized.

I know your response was not me directly, but I have already stated in a previous post that Jesus did die before the thieves, and technically the new covenant did go into effect at Jesus death, but it had to probated for anyone to be able to know about it. There was no was for the thief to baptized into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit because that was not commanded until after the thief was dead, which why the thief cannot be used as example for us today because we are not in the middle of the transition of two covenants today. We are under the new covenant and we exactly what it says.

In regards to Mark 16:16

Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The latter part does not change the first part. One has to believe AND be baptized to be saved. You cannot grammatically separate these two things. All Jesus had to say was if you don’t believe you will be condemned because if you don’t believe will never do anything else like repent, confess, or be baptized.

Let me give you a modern day example. If I announced on the radio, if you come to my house and bark like a dog, I will give you one hundred dollars, but if you don’t come to my house, you get nothing. Obviously if you are not willing to come to my house, your not going to bark at me either.

So there are no death bed conversions then? Really, God would be fickle enough to deny salvation on a technicality of not getting water? What next, oops, your shows were muddy when you walked in the church, no salvation for you? The Bible spoke of the general case where people would be able to be baptized, not as an absolute law. In other words, if you got the chance, then you did baptize. If you didn't, then I guess that means you were killed before you could. This also contradicts no works needed, as baptism is a work. If salvation requires baptism, then in part, it required a work of man.

Just because someone decides to get religious before the dying breath does not mean they are going to be saved. Again, even if God choose to save that person who made a death bed confession, it would be the exception and not the rule. Are you on your death bed? If not, what it keeping you from obeying the Word of God. The other examples you gave are ridicules. Either baptism is necessary or it isn’t. If you can say get baptized when you have a chance, then why not say believe when you have change or repent or confess when you have chance. Where is the Scripture that says that baptism is optional? Where the Scripture that says that it does not save us. I know the one the that says that it does:

1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us – baptism…

The Bible talks about works in different ways. The works that will not save us are works of the law of Moses or works of merit. We cannot earn our way into salvation, but God demands that we works of obedience, which we will do if we love Jesus Jn. 14:15.

Baptism is not a work of man. The only part we play in our baptism is physically getting in the water, submitting to it, and we are to put our faith in the working of God that we are being buried with Christ in baptism, being washed with His blood, being raised an new creature in Christ and knowing that God is adding us to His church:

Colossians 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

Everything that is done to us in baptism is done by God because it is a work of God. Baptism is work of God just like belief is work of God:

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

If baptism cannot save us because it is a work, then neither can faith. You cannot say faith saves and baptism does not.

By the verse you quoted: Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Sorry, no room in heaven for aborted babies, young children, or mentally challenged.

Suddenly you want to make this rule you were preaching as hard core more of a general guide line, when it suites your agenda. Either it sticks hard and fast, and all babies go to hell, or it is a general guide line, and water baptism is not a requirement. [\quote]

I don’t have an agenda other than to present the truth from the Bible. Your thoughts here are your own assumption because I have already showed why young children or the mentally challenged would be safe.

Perhaps this will help. In the OT a Jew was born a child of God and entered the covenant by being circumcised on the 8th day and then they were taught about God as the grew up, but under the NT, we are not born a child of God because we will be taught about God first and then we choose to become a Christian (see Jer. 31:31-34), but we must be old enough to be able to obey the commands. An infant, young child, or the mental challenged cannot believe in God, repent, confess or understand what is going on when they are being baptized. Since we are not born in sin, they will be safe, but for everyone else that can comprehend, they must obey our perish.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Quick question.

If baptism is a requirement for salvation, what's the point of the cross?

Just curious,

A Wright

Without Jesus death on the cross, we would all be lost, but when He died He did not make it to where everyone was saved no matter what. If that was the case, then we do not need our Bibles to tell us how to do this or how to do that if Jesus death took care of it all. Since this is not the case we must obey the commands of God with baptism being one of them, which is required to be saved.

 

[cougan]

It seems to me that we get bogged down in the mechanics of the redemptive process (among many other doctrinal issues). Sometimes I wish God would've produced a salvation flow-chart just to put these exercises to bed once and for all.

As to the point at hand, I believe anything that attempts to demote the blood of Christ from its rightful place as the ONLY source for the washing away of our sins is in error. I believe the rightly divided Word of God shows this without question.

That's my short answer. Any further elaboration will take time that I do not currently have (I'm at work atm) and, frankly, I grow weary of the "doubtful disputations" on these time worn issues.

I had a confessed moment of weakness when I posted that question... Used to be quite the debater (fighter?) back in the day. Old habits die hard.

ASW

All you have to do is read through the Scriptures and they tell what you must do to be saved. Two of the main commands you see in just about every conversion in the book of acts is belief and baptism. The commands not mentioned that often, but that are equally important is repentance and confessing Jesus as Lord.

Baptism does not take anything away from the blood of Christ. Instead it includes.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

Notice our sins are washed away by the blood of Jesus. When does this happen? It happens when we are baptized and we put our faith in the working of God knowing that He has said that baptism is the point that our sins are washed away.

Acts 2:38 "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 22:16 'And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

Notice, baptism is FOR the remission of sins and at baptism our sins are washed away. It is easy to see that baptism is when we come in contact with the cleansing power of Jesus blood.

 

[Doveaman]

Does one need to be baptized in order to be saved?

Some say you must be baptized in order to be saved. Others say although baptism is very important, it is not imperative in order to be saved. What say you?

I think the story of Naaman the leper in 2 Kings 5 is a picture of baptism.

Naaman had the disease of LEPROSY and wanted to be healed, and he was told that God could heal him, but in order to be healed he had to OBEY God's command to dip himself in WATER seven times (completely). Only after he OBEYED God’s command to dip himself in WATER was he healed.

If Naaman had only BELIEVED that God could heal him but did not OBEY God’s command to dip in WATER he would not have been healed of his disease of LEPROSY.

Our OBEDIENCE to God’s command to be baptized is evidence of our faith, a LIVING FAITH. Only those who have a LIVING FAITH, a FAITH with OBEDIENCE, are healed of the disease of SIN.

Because “Faith without works is dead...a man is justified by works, and not by faith only...so faith without works is dead”...James 2:20-26.

Even so, faith without OBEDIENCE to God's command to be baptized is dead.

But, there is allowance for certain exceptions for those who are unable to, such as the thief on the cross.

 

[Stinker]

Without having to go back in this thread and rehash the water baptisms that Jesus and John the Baptist administered, it is best to consider the command to repent. Those that teach that water baptism is necessary in order for the forgiveness of sins, also teach that one must repent before they are water baptized. This teaching implies that if anyone dies after repenting but before being water baptized, is going to spend eternity in gehenna hell. Repent ye therefore, and be converted (morally reformed- Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon), that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. (Acts 3:19)

The doctrine of 'water baptism unto the remission of sins' implies that God condemns the converted to eternal hell who die before they get water baptized because they waited too long.

 

[sister4mercy]

Some say you must be baptized in order to be saved. Others say although baptism is very important, it is not imperative in order to be saved. What say you?

This is a really good question. Church folk fight tooth and nail about it too. I grew up going to a church of christ half the time and a baptist church the other half. Then I walked away from church totally for a long time. I was taught water baptism was the only way to salvation. Then I asked Jesus into my heart once as a little girl at the baptist church. This thoroughly ticked off my grandmother who went to the church of christ...because they believe salvation only comes from water baptism and not faith alone. Here is my personal testimony.. I walked away from church totally for a long time. Then one night alone in my room..I asked Jesus to come back. I repented. Something happened to me at the time I could not understand. I felt the presence of God , his unspeakable love and holiness....and I was burning up. I felt like I was on fire..so much that I looked at my skin..thinking I'd be burned. And I saw everything different. It was like the whole world was new to me. It was so powerful and weird. It changed me completely. I now can speak in tongues. Mind you everyone in my family condemns all practicing of gifts of the spirit..so that's an issue itself. I started reading the gospels more and more. I started thinking about when I was a little girl again..and my dueling grandmothers on faith and baptism. I prayed..and I started searching. John DID baptize with water. And water baptism is a way to be baptized. But ..people need to listen to John a bit closer..He says..He who comes after me..baptizes with fire..and I'm not even fit to walk in his sandles. Jesus came to John and said it is proper to baptize..and john baptized with water. John baptizes with water. Jesus baptizes with fire. According to the word..it doesn't look like either one is wrong. I plan to do the water thing eventually. But..if someone where to walk up to me and say.."You aren't saved yet because you havent been baptized in water." I'd respond like this, " You saying that I am not saved..is you making judgement on me. Our Father in heaven will judge you just the same as you have judged me. " I have many witnesses of my life changing profoundly. My Father in heaven himself is a witness of me being reborn in the spirit. I am a totally new person. I am astonished at how ignorant and condemning people are about all of this. I'm seriously praying that God peels the scales off their eyes so their can see past religion to God himself. Repent and seek the Kingdom of God for yourself..not for a religious man-made establishment...and our Father in Heaven will add all things needed..including in the name of his beloved Son baptizing you. Have faith in the Lord!.. Not traditions. Read the word of God and pray for understanding.

May God bless you!

 

[Doveaman]

This is a really good question. Church folk fight tooth and nail about it too. I grew up going to a church of christ half the time and a baptist church the other half. Then I walked away from church totally for a long time. I was taught water baptism was the only way to salvation. Then I asked Jesus into my heart once as a little girl at the baptist church. This thoroughly ticked off my grandmother who went to the church of christ...because they believe salvation only comes from water baptism and not faith alone. Here is my personal testimony.. I walked away from church totally for a long time. Then one night alone in my room..I asked Jesus to come back. I repented. Something happened to me at the time I could not understand. I felt the presence of God , his unspeakable love and holiness....and I was burning up. I felt like I was on fire..so much that I looked at my skin..thinking I'd be burned. And I saw everything different. It was like the whole world was new to me. It was so powerful and weird. It changed me completely. I now can speak in tongues. Mind you everyone in my family condemns all practicing of gifts of the spirit..so that's an issue itself. I started reading the gospels more and more. I started thinking about when I was a little girl again..and my dueling grandmothers on faith and baptism. I prayed..and I started searching. John DID baptize with water. And water baptism is a way to be baptized. But ..people need to listen to John a bit closer..He says..He who comes after me..baptizes with fire..and I'm not even fit to walk in his sandles. Jesus came to John and said it is proper to baptize..and john baptized with water. John baptizes with water. Jesus baptizes with fire. According to the word..it doesn't look like either one is wrong. I plan to do the water thing eventually. But..if someone where to walk up to me and say.."You aren't saved yet because you havent been baptized in water." I'd respond like this, " You saying that I am not saved..is you making judgement on me. Our Father in heaven will judge you just the same as you have judged me. " I have many witnesses of my life changing profoundly. My Father in heaven himself is a witness of me being reborn in the spirit. I am a totally new person. I am astonished at how ignorant and condemning people are about all of this. I'm seriously praying that God peels the scales off their eyes so their can see past religion to God himself. Repent and seek the Kingdom of God for yourself..not for a religious man-made establishment...and our Father in Heaven will add all things needed..including in the name of his beloved Son baptizing you. Have faith in the Lord!.. Not traditions. Read the word of God and pray for understanding.

May God bless you!

Being baptized with fire is not about feeling hot under the skin; it’s about the life long process of spiritual purification that Christ takes us all through until we are all transformed into His image and likeness.

Matt 3:11-12:
I baptize you with water unto repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I...He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire (Purification).

Mal 3:2-3:
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire...He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the LORD will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness.

Isa 4:3-4:
Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy...The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Being baptized with the spirit of fire is about spiritual purification; it’s not about feeling hot. If you can show me in scripture where a person feels heat when the Holy Spirit came upon them I would be happy to study it.

In the mean time:

Acts 2:38:
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized...for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Repentance and baptism go hand in hand as a sign of repentance, after which one receives the Holy Spirit. That’s the general rule, with a very few exceptions.

Also notice:

Acts 8:15-18:
When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit...Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands.

Another general rule before the Holy Spirit is received; "the laying on of the apostles' hands." For us this would equate to the hands of a church elder.

To conclude:

Matt 3:11:
I baptize you with water unto repentance.

Water baptism is a sign of repentance. How can we say we have repented but then refuse to obey God’s command to be baptized?

If we refuse to obey God’s command to be baptized then we are demonstrating by our actions that we have not repented.

If we have truly repented then we will obey God's command to be baptized.

If you noticed I haven't 'condemned' you or accused you of not having the Holy Spirit. I just have my doubts about your overall argument, which, IMO, has no scriptural basis. It seems to be based on your feelings and emotions and personal opinion.

I would be very happy to study the scriptures you provide as the basis for your argument.

God bless.

Dman.