Does one need to be baptized in order to be saved?

[JerryChristian]

Some say you must be baptized in order to be saved. Others say although baptism is very important, it is not imperative in order to be saved. What say you?

 

[toolite]

Some say you must be baptized in order to be saved. Others say although baptism is very important, it is not imperative in order to be saved. What say you?

I think this is an excellent question. In talking with others that are spiritually gifted somewhere down the line they were baptised. Whether as a child or adult. I believe it is required. Its the cleansing and we all need to be washed and cleansed. Stay Blessed!


All The Glory Belongs To God!

 

[bliz]

One should be baptized because they have been saved, not as a step in the process of being saved.

 

[DavidPresently]

I agree with Bliz, if by baptism we are strictly speaking of immersion in water. If we are speaking of baptism into Christ, which is the same as being born of the Spirit, then that is absolutely necessary for salvation, for that is when salvation commences. If we are talking about baptism with the Holy Spirit for empowerment after believing, then no, that is something we SHOULD do just like water baptism, but is subsequent to salvation, not required for it.

There is only one scriptural requirement for salvation, being made a new creature in Christ; faith in him that is confessed (believe with our heart and confess with our mouth).

 

[JerryChristian]

I agree with Bliz, if by baptism we are strictly speaking of immersion in water. If we are speaking of baptism into Christ, which is the same as being born of the Spirit, then that is absolutely necessary for salvation, for that is when salvation commences. If we are talking about baptism with the Holy Spirit for empowerment after believing, then no, that is something we SHOULD do just like water baptism, but is subsequent to salvation, not required for it.

There is only one scriptural requirement for salvation, being made a new creature in Christ; faith in him that is confessed (believe with our heart and confess with our mouth).

I agree, Good analysis! God Bless

 

[JerryChristian]

One should be baptized because they have been saved, not as a step in the process of being saved.

You are right. Jesus Himself said to John the Baptist, that it fulfills all righteousness.

 

[JerryChristian]

I think this is an excellent question. In talking with others that are spiritually gifted somewhere down the line they were baptised. Whether as a child or adult. I believe it is required. Its the cleansing and we all need to be washed and cleansed. Stay Blessed!


All The Glory Belongs To God!

Let me throw you a hypothetical. A man is seriously wounded in the desert. He knows he is about to die. He cries out to God and asks for forgiveness of his sins. He accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. Then he dies shortly afterward. He had no opportunity to be baptized. Is he saved?

 

[bliz]

Let me throw you a hypothetical. A man is seriously wounded in the desert. He knows he is about to die. He cries out to God and asks for forgiveness of his sins. He accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. Then he dies shortly afterward. He had no opportunity to be baptized. Is he saved?

Absolutely! Think of the thief on the cross beside Jesus. He was told He would be in heaven that day and he was not baptized.

BTW, under such conditions it is perfectly acceptable for the dying soldier to be baptized with any liquid, Coke or tea or even human spittle if that is all that is available.

 

[JerryChristian]

Absolutely! Think of the thief on the cross beside Jesus. He was told He would be in heaven that day and he was not baptized.

BTW, under such conditions it is perfectly acceptable for the dying soldier to be baptized with any liquid, Coke or tea or even human spittle if that is all that is available.

The argument is that the thief on the cross was under old testament law because Christ had not died yet. And Christ has the power to forgive sins as He did with others, even without baptism. But, that once He died that baptism is now the only way to be saved. In Mark 16:16 Jesus says, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned."

 

[jdale72]

Its by the life of Jesus Christ were saved. If being baptised helps you work out your salvation then I'd say its required, but its the confess of your mouth that results in being saved. Cause no man can say Jesus Christ is Lord but by the Holy Spirit and the water that comes by is the Word.

 

[RedPhoenix]

well.... see this is something that I often don't like when people discuss, because we end up talking about two different things. Technically, we are already saved. Because Christ died for us, we are saved. Now, that does not mean that we will attain salvation. The definitions are really sketchy, but work with me here.

In terms of baptism, it definitely helps. There were many saints who were not baptized, but attained salvation. There are also many who were baptized and who did not attain salvation. It really depends on the person. For the man who was about to die and cried out to God, was he saved? I don't know. I don't know if I, a God-fearing and God-loving woman will be saved. I pray that I will be, but my heart may be hardened by the time that I die.

Baptism is a sacrament. It helps. It is not the sole cause of salvation.

I really hope that that made sense. If it didn't, I'm sorry.

In Love
Red

 

[cougan]

Does one need to be baptized in order to be saved?

​

Some say you must be baptized in order to be saved. Others say although baptism is very important, it is not imperative in order to be saved. What say you?

I am not interested in what other say, I am only interested in what Bible says.

Notice what Jesus said:

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

The Great Commission as it is called has Jesus telling us how to make disciples of Christ. Jesus also said:

Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus said that belief and baptism are required to be saved. You cannot grammatically separate these two things because they are bound together by the word and. Jesus’ disciples did not disappoint because at the birth of the church in Acts 2 Peter told the Jews exactly what they needed to do be saved:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Again, you cannot separate these two things and baptism is the point at which your sins are forgiven. Hence no baptism, no forgiveness of sins. Just read through the book of acts and you will find two things that are mentioned when someone was converted to Christ: belief and baptism.

There is nothing magical about the water, it simply the place God has said you will come in contact with the cleansing power of Jesus blood (Rev. 1:5). Being baptized is not a work of man, but a work of God. As Paul says:

Colossians 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

When you submit yourself to baptism and put your faith in the working of God, you can know that you are being buried with Christ and united in His death. Your old man is being put to death (Rom. 6) and God is washing away your sins with the blood of Jesus (Just like Paul Acts 22:16). When you come up from the water you can know that you have been raised from spiritual death caused by your sin and you been raised alive together with Jesus as a new creature in Christ without your sins.

Since you must put faith in the working of God for this to happen, it means you must know what you are doing, which rules out being baptized as baby or young child without understanding.

This why Peter said:

1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us -- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Peter couldn’t make it clearer baptism is necessary for salvation and it is an answer of good conscience to God, which means we must know what we are doing when are being baptized, otherwise we just get wet.

The Bible, not me, teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation.

 

[cougan]

I think this is an excellent question. In talking with others that are spiritually gifted somewhere down the line they were baptised. Whether as a child or adult. I believe it is required. Its the cleansing and we all need to be washed and cleansed. Stay Blessed!


All The Glory Belongs To God!

Yes all the glory belongs to God, but you need to decide, is it or is not required. There is no middle line.

One should be baptized because they have been saved, not as a step in the process of being saved.

The Bible differs with you my friend. Look at the Scriptures I used that says that baptism is what saves us and is the point our sins are removed. Look at conversion of Saul. He believed in Jesus, confessed Him as Lord, repented, prayed 3 days and night, yet he was not saved until he was baptized. Otherwise, Ananias got it wrong when he said:

Acts 22:16 'And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

You are not saved before your baptized and you are not saved by baptism alone, you must use the whole Word of God and look at what it says you must do to be saved. You must hear the Word of God Rom. 10:17, believe Jesus is the Son of God Jn. 8:24, repent Lk. 13:3, confess Jesus as your Lord Rom. 10:9-10, and be baptized in the name Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins Acts 2:38.

I agree with Bliz, if by baptism we are strictly speaking of immersion in water. If we are speaking of baptism into Christ, which is the same as being born of the Spirit, then that is absolutely necessary for salvation, for that is when salvation commences. If we are talking about baptism with the Holy Spirit for empowerment after believing, then no, that is something we SHOULD do just like water baptism, but is subsequent to salvation, not required for it.

There is only one scriptural requirement for salvation, being made a new creature in Christ; faith in him that is confessed (believe with our heart and confess with our mouth).

Not I am not 100% what you are trying to say, but it seems that you are saying that if we believe and confess Jesus as lord that = to being baptized into Christ/made a new creature. The only thing I agree with is that belief and confession are necessary for salvation, but you have left out repentance and water baptism, which is the only baptism we can be baptized with because the baptism Jesus commanded in The Great Commission was to be done by us. Our examples that it was water baptism was Philip baptizing the eunuch in Acts 8 and Peter baptizing Cornelius and his household with water Acts 10 and Paul baptizing the Philippian Jailor and his family in Acts 16.

There is only one baptism that saves Eph. 4:4-5 and that baptism is water baptism That is why we can be buried and washed with it. Again, I refer you to Saul conversion, He believed and confessed Jesus as Lord, but he was still in sins and to arise that is get up and go get baptized to wash away his sins. That would not make sense with baptism being belief and confessing because you not have to arise or go get baptized it could have happened right there. Same thing is true with Holy Spirit baptism, which by the way is promise of God and cannot be carried out by man. Since Holy Spirit baptism only occurred twice in Scripture, we can know that it is not one baptism that saves.

Jesus did say:


John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Notice the two element water and the Spirit, The water is referring to water, which we are immersed in when we are baptized and the Spirit has to with the instructions that we receive through the inspired Word of God on what do to do be saved. I can prove this because:

John 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Also Peter clearly states that we must obey the Word of God in order to be born again, the very thing Jesus was telling Nicodemus about in John 3.

1 Peter 1:22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

Also read Rom. 6 and you will see that we must buried with Christ in baptism in order to be put into Christ Rom. 6:3: Gal 3:27 and be raised with Him as new creature. So, water baptism is necessary for salvation.

 

[cougan]

Let me throw you a hypothetical. A man is seriously wounded in the desert. He knows he is about to die. He cries out to God and asks for forgiveness of his sins. He accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. Then he dies shortly afterward. He had no opportunity to be baptized. Is he saved?

Based on what the Scriptures teach, no he would not be saved. But lets say that God decided to make a exception in this man’s case because God saw his heart and knew he would have been baptized if he could. What is keeping the 99.9% of the rest of the people that aren’t in that usual circumstance from obeying the command to be baptized for the remission of sins.

We can create many hypothetical situations that seem difficult to us, but it will be God that makes the judgment call. We can’t try justify leaving out part of God’s Word based on some slim chance that might happen to someone else.

Absolutely! Think of the thief on the cross beside Jesus. He was told He would be in heaven that day and he was not baptized.

BTW, under such conditions it is perfectly acceptable for the dying soldier to be baptized with any liquid, Coke or tea or even human spittle if that is all that is available.

You cannot use the thief on the cross as example because it possible that he was baptized with John’s baptism, and even if he was not Jesus had the power to forgive people of their sins while He was on the earth. The thief the cross could not have been baptized with the baptism Jesus commanded because the thief was dead before Jesus commanded it. This was unique time in which one covenant was be replaced by another, so no one today can use the thief justify not being baptized into Christ for the remission of sins.

Its by the life of Jesus Christ were saved. If being baptised helps you work out your salvation then I'd say its required, but its the confess of your mouth that results in being saved. Cause no man can say Jesus Christ is Lord but by the Holy Spirit and the water that comes by is the Word.

You need to choose. Is baptism required or not? You cannot have both ways and it cannot be qualified with an “if”. Yes confession is necessary for salvation, but it cannot save you by itself. Again you hear, believe, repent, confess and be baptized to be saved.

well.... see this is something that I often don't like when people discuss, because we end up talking about two different things. Technically, we are already saved. Because Christ died for us, we are saved. Now, that does not mean that we will attain salvation. The definitions are really sketchy, but work with me here.

In terms of baptism, it definitely helps. There were many saints who were not baptized, but attained salvation. There are also many who were baptized and who did not attain salvation. It really depends on the person. For the man who was about to die and cried out to God, was he saved? I don't know. I don't know if I, a God-fearing and God-loving woman will be saved. I pray that I will be, but my heart may be hardened by the time that I die.

Baptism is a sacrament. It helps. It is not the sole cause of salvation.

I really hope that that made sense. If it didn't, I'm sorry.

I think I understand what you are saying and I agree and disagree with you. First, we are not all saved just because Jesus died for us because we have to accept salvation by obeying God’s Word. Now I do agree that once we are saved we can lose our salvation, which is why we warned over and over again about remain faithful and holding fast the doctrine of God or we can be lost again.

It doesn’t make sense saying that baptism helps because you make sound optional. You need to decide it is necessary or not?

 

[RedPhoenix]

It doesn’t make sense saying that baptism helps because you make sound optional. You need to decide it is necessary or not?

I may be wrong on this, but from what people keep telling me, the basic gist is that Sacraments, all of them, help us to accept God. We are baptized and receive His Holy Spirit through chrismation. We receive Holy Communion. Those, and all of the other Sacraments help to draw us closer to God and to help us become closer with him, even though we are wretched things. I think that anyone who can be received into the Church and baptized should. I do not think that a person must be baptized to be saved. Is a miscarried child baptized? No. Is that child saved? I can't see a reason why he/she wouldn't be.

 

[toolite]

Let me throw you a hypothetical. A man is seriously wounded in the desert. He knows he is about to die. He cries out to God and asks for forgiveness of his sins. He accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. Then he dies shortly afterward. He had no opportunity to be baptized. Is he saved?

Yes that's a great question! I believe so because God will read his heart and if he is sincere then yes.


All The Glory Belongs To God!

 

[Naal]

The physical act of being put into the water is an announcement of faith to the world. The spiritual act of being baptized and cleaned is the key here.

 

[cougan]

I may be wrong on this, but from what people keep telling me, the basic gist is that Sacraments, all of them, help us to accept God. We are baptized and receive His Holy Spirit through chrismation. We receive Holy Communion. Those, and all of the other Sacraments help to draw us closer to God and to help us become closer with him, even though we are wretched things. I think that anyone who can be received into the Church and baptized should. I do not think that a person must be baptized to be saved. Is a miscarried child baptized? No. Is that child saved? I can't see a reason why he/she wouldn't be.

Unborn babies and those who have not reached the age of accountablity do not have be baptized to be saved because they are not capable of understanding what they must do to be saved. This would include the mentally challenged and the like. Everyone else must.

 

[JerryChristian]

I am not interested in what other say, I am only interested in what Bible says.

Notice what Jesus said:

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

The Great Commission as it is called has Jesus telling us how to make disciples of Christ. Jesus also said:

Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus said that belief and baptism are required to be saved. You cannot grammatically separate these two things because they are bound together by the word and. Jesus’ disciples did not disappoint because at the birth of the church in Acts 2 Peter told the Jews exactly what they needed to do be saved:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Again, you cannot separate these two things and baptism is the point at which your sins are forgiven. Hence no baptism, no forgiveness of sins. Just read through the book of acts and you will find two things that are mentioned when someone was converted to Christ: belief and baptism.

There is nothing magical about the water, it simply the place God has said you will come in contact with the cleansing power of Jesus blood (Rev. 1:5). Being baptized is not a work of man, but a work of God. As Paul says:

Colossians 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

When you submit yourself to baptism and put your faith in the working of God, you can know that you are being buried with Christ and united in His death. Your old man is being put to death (Rom. 6) and God is washing away your sins with the blood of Jesus (Just like Paul Acts 22:16). When you come up from the water you can know that you have been raised from spiritual death caused by your sin and you been raised alive together with Jesus as a new creature in Christ without your sins.

Since you must put faith in the working of God for this to happen, it means you must know what you are doing, which rules out being baptized as baby or young child without understanding.

This why Peter said:

1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us -- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Peter couldn’t make it clearer baptism is necessary for salvation and it is an answer of good conscience to God, which means we must know what we are doing when are being baptized, otherwise we just get wet.

The Bible, not me, teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation.

In the original greek text the word was "immerse." Do you agree with that?

Also, I would caution you that it is worthwhile to listen to other opinions because they may have an insight to scriptures that you are lacking! People who think that they have the only and most truthful interpretation of the Bible are very often wrong! Long held beliefs by many church members are nothing more than traditional beliefs passed from generation to generation. Many are taught by well meaning Christian teachers who have not the knowledge to make their claims. Are you 100% certain that you are right?

 

[JerryChristian]

[/color]

Based on what the Scriptures teach, no he would not be saved. But lets say that God decided to make a exception in this man’s case because God saw his heart and knew he would have been baptized if he could. What is keeping the 99.9% of the rest of the people that aren’t in that usual circumstance from obeying the command to be baptized for the remission of sins.

We can create many hypothetical situations that seem difficult to us, but it will be God that makes the judgment call. We can’t try justify leaving out part of God’s Word based on some slim chance that might happen to someone else.

By the way, are there exceptions that God can make, and will He make those exceptions?

And is the method of baptism more important than the condition of the heart towards God?

Are people who propose that one must be baptized in order to be saved over-reaching the Biblical authority?



You cannot use the thief on the cross as example because it possible that he was baptized with John’s baptism, and even if he was not Jesus had the power to forgive people of their sins while He was on the earth. The thief the cross could not have been baptized with the baptism Jesus commanded because the thief was dead before Jesus commanded it. This was unique time in which one covenant was be replaced by another, so no one today can use the thief justify not being baptized into Christ for the remission of sins.



You need to choose. Is baptism required or not? You cannot have both ways and it cannot be qualified with an “if”. Yes confession is necessary for salvation, but it cannot save you by itself. Again you hear, believe, repent, confess and be baptized to be saved.



I think I understand what you are saying and I agree and disagree with you. First, we are not all saved just because Jesus died for us because we have to accept salvation by obeying God’s Word. Now I do agree that once we are saved we can lose our salvation, which is why we warned over and over again about remain faithful and holding fast the doctrine of God or we can be lost again.

It doesn’t make sense saying that baptism helps because you make sound optional. You need to decide it is necessary or not?

First of all what is babtism?

Second, you only assume that the thief on the cross was previously baptized by John. Where is your Scriptural proof?

Third Jesus says in Matthew 10:32 and 33 that he who confesses Him before men He will confess before the Father.

Rom. 10:9-10 It states that one who believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth will be saved. Why did the gospel writer leave out baptism?

Why was Jesus baptized? He certainly did not sin, and had nothing to repent for. He needed no remission of sins, because He was sinless!

I do not want to offend you, but I am attempting to show you a more excellent way. I firmly believe that almost every denomination that originated from the doctrinal differences over baptism have gotten it wrong. My purpose is to cause you to dig a little deeper! Quit teaching the doctrines of men and really see what the Scriptures say. Most of us have been taught garbage that causes division in the church over this very subject! I've had to study this out in much prayer to be able to shed light on this divisive issue! Having said that, I'm not going to give you the conclusion yet, because I want you to reasonably question where you could be wrong!

That is why I am asking you some very leading questions, in order to provoke you to think beyond what you have already been taught.

After reading your statement, let me ask you!

Has Jesus lost the power to forgive sins now that He has ascended to the Father?

The Bible accounts that the three men on the cross all died. It does not give a definite timeline of who died first. Suppose the thief died last, after Jesus died, was he saved?