Does morality exist without God?

[trientje]

No more than you can prove that Christian morals don't actually come from Darth Vader.

What I can tell you is that my morals and values are naturalistic, and don't make any appeal to a God for their validity.


eudaimonia,

Mark

What does it mean when you say your morals are naturalistic? And to who do you attribute your morals and values?

So called logical and critical thinkers will say this:
moralities in human society are inherent and internal within us. What I mean is that the mechanism that creates morality is built into our genetics. Unless one suffers from sever confirmation bias and self delusion it is clear by the logic above that morals are inherent in the human with a range of flexibility in application.

So what is the above statement saying? That through evolution morals were somehow built into our genes? If you agree to that concept could you explain to me how the concept of morals got into our genes? For I always believed that science can not explain morals.

 

[quatona]

So what is the above statement saying? That through evolution morals were somehow built into our genes? If you agree to that concept could you explain to me how the concept of morals got into our genes?

Yeah, right after you will have explained how god "wrote morals into our hearts".

 

[Belk]

What does it mean when you say your morals are naturalistic? And to who do you attribute your morals and values?

So called logical and critical thinkers will say this:
moralities in human society are inherent and internal within us. What I mean is that the mechanism that creates morality is built into our genetics. Unless one suffers from sever confirmation bias and self delusion it is clear by the logic above that morals are inherent in the human with a range of flexibility in application.

So what is the above statement saying? That through evolution morals were somehow built into our genes? If you agree to that concept could you explain to me how the concept of morals got into our genes? For I always believed that science can not explain morals.

My understanding is it's not so much morals as a moral frame work. I would take this question to the Crevo sub forum as you will likely get a better and more detailed answer there.

 

[trientje]

Yeah, right after you will have explained how god "wrote morals into our hearts".

OK, I get my morals from God's word, the bible. Where do you get yours from? What does naturalistic mean?

 

[bricklayer]

Morality is inferred. Ethics are implied.

 

[quatona]

OK, I get my morals from God's word, the bible.

That´s not an answer to the question I asked.

Where do you get yours from?

Presumably and hopefully using similar means to those that lead you to believe that the there´s a god, that the bible is god´s word and to your interpretation of the bible: i.e. using the human resources that are to my disposal to the best of my abilities.

What does naturalistic mean?

Let me google that for you

 

[trientje]

My understanding is it's not so much morals as a moral frame work.

I'm not so much asking how but what and where. You talk about a moral framework. Where do I find this moral framework?

What I can tell you is that my morals and values are naturalistic, and don't make any appeal to a God for their validity.

I understand that you don't appeal to God for anything. But what do you mean when you say your morals and values are "naturalistic"?

 

[Eudaimonist]

What does it mean when you say your morals are naturalistic?

I mean that I appeal only to facts pertaining to the natural universe, not to any supernatural or non-natural source.

And to who do you attribute your morals and values?

I'm not certain that I understand your question.

So called logical and critical thinkers will say this:
moralities in human society are inherent and internal within us.

Which thinkers? Not all philosophers would say this.

What I mean is that the mechanism that creates morality is built into our genetics.

That has nothing to do with my view. I'll grant that genetics may provide us with moral capacities, such as empathy, but those capacities don't create right and wrong, and don't limit anyone's views regarding right and wrong.

So what is the above statement saying? That through evolution morals were somehow built into our genes?

Interesting view, but it is not mine.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Belk]

I'm not so much asking how but what and where. You talk about a moral framework. Where do I find this moral framework?

As I said it would likely serve you better to ask this in Crevo. As to were you find this framework it is built into how our brains work. Starting with the simple processes of in the medulla oblongata (the oldest parts of our brain) we see an escalating set of behaviors that become increasingly complex and nuanced. All of this is, of course, also affected by our cultural upbringing.

 

[trientje]

As I said it would likely serve you better to ask this in Crevo. As to were you find this framework it is built into how our brains work. Starting with the simple processes of in the medulla oblongata (the oldest parts of our brain) we see an escalating set of behaviors that become increasingly complex and nuanced. All of this is, of course, also affected by our cultural upbringing.

In all my years of assisting in autopsies I have never pulled out a list of morals in the medulla oblongata. The brain is one of the least understood as to its functions. Let me try this again. I believe in the bible. The bible gives me the God given morals and laws. You talk about a "moral framework" where is it that you go for that moral framework? God writes this in the bible
“I will put My Law within them, and on their hearts will I write it; and I will be their God, and they will be My people” – Jeremiah 31:33-34
I hate to tell this to an atheist but are you sure it isn't God that wrote the morals you live by in your heart and that you are attributing them to man?

 

[mandyangel]

morality without God is like a house without walls imo. you can be a moral person but its not complete without God.

 

[trientje]

morality without God is like a house without walls imo. you can be a moral person but its not complete without God.

You are so right!!!!!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

morality without God is like a house without walls imo. you can be a moral person but its not complete without God.

Religious morality is like a castle built on sinking sand.

 

[trientje]

Religious morality is like a castle built on sinking sand.

Really? Could you explain why you said that? What you wrote reminded me of the verses in Matthew
The Wise and Foolish Builders

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” Matthew 7:24-27


This is a quote from a sermon:

[SIZE=-1]•• Our modern world — at least the western world with which I am personally familiar — almost deifies [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]man’s intellect[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] and other human faculties. But Jesus said that those who are truly blessed are those who live in [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]dependence on God’s word[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE]

 

[Eudaimonist]

morality without God is like a house without walls imo. you can be a moral person but its not complete without God.

Incomplete in what way?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Skavau]

Really? Could you explain why you said that? What you wrote reminded me of the verses in Matthew
The Wise and Foolish Builders

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” Matthew 7:24-27


This is a quote from a sermon:

[SIZE=-1]•• Our modern world — at least the western world with which I am personally familiar — almost deifies [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]man’s intellect[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] and other human faculties. But Jesus said that those who are truly blessed are those who live in [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]dependence on God’s word[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE]

I imagine Archaeopteryx could be alluding to several things but I am not sure what relevance your reply has.

I fail to see any functional difference between so-called "religious morality" and secular morality. What is unique and special about morality supposedly derived from a deity?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Religious morality is like a castle built on sinking sand.

You are so right!!!!!


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[trientje]

I imagine Archaeopteryx could be alluding to several things but I am not sure what relevance your reply has.

I fail to see any functional difference between so-called "religious morality" and secular morality. What is unique and special about morality supposedly derived from a deity?

Of course you don't because you do not believe in God. My God, the Christian God.

 

[Skavau]

Of course you don't because you do not believe in God. My God, the Christian God.

Right.

So what actually is the difference? What do practitioners and adherents of "theistic morality" have over people who just have regular secular morality?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Really? Could you explain why you said that? What you wrote reminded me of the verses in Matthew
The Wise and Foolish Builders

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” Matthew 7:24-27


This is a quote from a sermon:

[SIZE=-1]•• Our modern world — at least the western world with which I am personally familiar — almost deifies [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]man’s intellect[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] and other human faculties. But Jesus said that those who are truly blessed are those who live in [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]dependence on God’s word[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE]

Moral claims become reduced to religious claims; to assertions of "God commands it; therefore it is right." Whose God commands what seems to depend on the individual believer and his religion.