Does Modern Science Align with the Bible?

[Humble Penny]

Short answer no. When you check the foundations of modern science they are rooted in ancient Babylonian mystery schools parading as "science". True science is from God, so-called "science" is from paganism.

"Timothy, keep safe what has been entrusted to your care. Avoid the profane talk and foolish arguments of what some people wrongly call “Knowledge.” For some have claimed to possess it, and as a result they have lost the way of faith. God's grace be with you all."
1 Timothy 6:20‭-‬21 GNTD

"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana."
1 Timothy 6:20‭-‬21 KJV

"Boast no more so very proudly, Do not let arrogance come out of your mouth; For the Lord is a God of knowledge, And with Him actions are weighed."
1 Samuel 2:3 NASB1995

 

[d taylor]

-​

No.

 

[visionary]

Modern science works hard on its denial of God's existence no matter where is blooms.

 

[Humble Penny]

Modern science works hard on its denial of God's existence no matter where is blooms.

I also find it sickening that more people in the Church are also allowing themselves to be fooled into thinking that evolution and creation are compatible...which they are most definitely not...

 

[Paul4JC]

At this CF many (most) bow at the alter of modern science, and the alter here is huge. If you make a statement against science or NASA it usually gets put in the Conspiracy Theories. Or it will be ignored, as in the case here by @Humble Penny. Furthermore, you don't need atheists to attack you if you say something against science, cause you have plenty of Christians who will do it for them (usually with ungodly mocking). At times it seems like there is more "fellowship" that goes on with atheists about science at CF than anything else. Maranatha.

 

[Humble Penny]

At this CF many (most) bow at the alter of modern science, and the alter here is huge. If you make a statement against science or NASA it usually gets put in the Conspiracy Theories. Or it will be ignored, as in the case here by @Humble Penny. Furthermore, you don't need atheists to attack you if you say something against science, cause you have plenty of Christians who will do it for them (usually with ungodly mocking). At times it seems like there is more "fellowship" that goes on with atheists about science at CF than anything else. Maranatha.

Evening brother thanks for your reply! I figured it would go unnnoticed which I don't mind so long as the truth is spoken.

That said I thought it is still important to put out there for while there is room for true science I see that many believers take for granted that much of the "science" we've been given since the Renaissance is nothing but pure pagan garbage at its core. While there's definitley truth in science and mathematics...there's much more falsehood surrounding it.

 

[Humble Penny]

At this CF many (most) bow at the alter of modern science, and the alter here is huge. If you make a statement against science or NASA it usually gets put in the Conspiracy Theories. Or it will be ignored, as in the case here by @Humble Penny. Furthermore, you don't need atheists to attack you if you say something against science, cause you have plenty of Christians who will do it for them (usually with ungodly mocking). At times it seems like there is more "fellowship" that goes on with atheists about science at CF than anything else. Maranatha.

Evening brother thanks for your reply! I figured it would go unnnoticed which I don't mind so long as the truth is spoken.

That said I thought it is still important to put out there for while there is room for true science I see that many believers take for granted that much of the "science" we've been given since the Renaissance is nothing but pure pagan garbage at its core. While there's definitley truth in science and mathematics...there's much more falsehood surrounding it.

The verses I cited in my OP were to highlight the simple meaning behind the word science which comes from the Latin scientia "knowledge, to know". And seeing that all knowledge comes from God we can conclude that He is the Tree of Knowledge from which all the branches of knowldege [science] grow out from.

...now if only our fellow brothers and sisters would call upon God to help them discern the difference between true and false knowledge...

 

[daq]

At this CF many (most) bow at the alter of modern science, and the alter here is huge. If you make a statement against science or NASA it usually gets put in the Conspiracy Theories. Or it will be ignored, as in the case here by @Humble Penny. Furthermore, you don't need atheists to attack you if you say something against science, cause you have plenty of Christians who will do it for them (usually with ungodly mocking). At times it seems like there is more "fellowship" that goes on with atheists about science at CF than anything else. Maranatha.

I don't believe the text in question says anything about science to begin with.

...και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως...

...and [the] antithesis (opposing argument) of the falsely named gnoseos...

Gnoseos, that is, gnosis, and probably speaks of early Gnosticism as an opposing (antithesis) argument that would have surely been considered to be in opposition to the teachings of Paul as well as the other Apostles.

 

[Humble Penny]

I don't believe the text in question says anything about science to begin with.

...και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως...

...and the antithesis (opposing argument) of the falsely named gnoseos...

Gnoseos, that is, gnosis, and probably speaks of early Gnosticism as an opposing (antithesis) argument that would have surely been considered to be in opposition to the teachings of Paul as well as the other Apostles.

Hey brother daq like your avatar! While it is true that the Greek gnosis is what appears and is simply translated as "knowledge, to know", the word itself is very broad encomapassing all forms of knowledge whether good or bad. And I agree that gnosticism was definitely being combatted during the days of the Apostles, but I also believe it to be equally true that this false so-called science was like the multiheaded Hydra who grew many heads of false knowledge [science].

I just couldn't help but notice when checking the foundations of modern science [knowledge] that it is built upon paganism and mystery cults from Babylon...of course this doesn't invalidate geometry, arithmetic, and the like as they are useful and true for everyday use...however we can't ignore the like of Pythagoras and all the other philosophers who are pagan to the core, and must therefore tread these various branches of science with the wisdom of serpents while remaining as innnocent as doves.

 

[daq]

Hey brother daq like your avatar! While it is true that the Greek gnosis is what appears and is simply translated as "knowledge, to know", the word itself is very broad encomapassing all forms of knowledge whether good or bad. And I agree that gnosticism was definitely being combatted during the days of the Apostles, but I also believe it to be equally true that this false so-called science was like the multiheaded Hydra who grew many heads of false knowledge [science].

I just couldn't help but notice when checking the foundations of modern science [knowledge] that it is built upon paganism and mystery cults from Babylon...of course this doesn't invalidate geometry, arithmetic, and the like as they are useful and true for everyday use...however we can't ignore the like of Pythagoras and all the other philosophers who are pagan to the core, and must therefore tread these various branches of science with the wisdom of serpents while remaining as innnocent as doves.

The Pythagoras Theorem is practically fundamental to geometry. Whether he was a pagan or not isn't relevant to that.

PS:

Hey brother daq like your avatar!

Thanks. Constellation Ayil. : )

 

[Humble Penny]

The Pythagoras Theorem is practically fundamental to geometry. Whether he was a pagan or not isn't relevant to that.

Well readers would be hard pressed to know that the king Solomon said pi = 3:

"Now he made the sea of cast metal ten cubits from brim to brim, circular in form, and its height was five cubits, and thirty cubits in circumference. Under its brim gourds went around encircling it ten to a cubit, completely surrounding the sea; the gourds were in two rows, cast with the rest. It stood on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east; and the sea was set on top of them, and all their rear parts turned inward. It was a handbreadth thick, and its brim was made like the brim of a cup, as a lily blossom; it could hold two thousand baths."
1 Kings 7:23‭-‬26 NASB1995 (emphasis added mine)

1 Cubit = 6 Hand Breadths
1 Cubit = 18 Inches = 1 Foot 6 Inches
1 Handbreadth = 3 Inches

Diameter = 10 Cubits x 18 Inches
Diameter = 180 Inches / 12 Inches
Diameter = 15 Feet from brim to brim

Circumference = 30 Cubits x 18 Inches
Circumference = 540 Inches / 12 Inches
Circumference = 45 Feet around

540 Inches / 3 Inches = 180 Inches
540 Inches / 180 Inches = 3 Inches

45 Feet / 15 Feet = 3 Feet

...therefore...

PI = 3 according to the Bible.

PS:


Thanks. Constellation Ayil. : )

You're welcome!

 

[daq]

Well readers would be hard pressed to know that the king Solomon said pi = 3:

"Now he made the sea of cast metal ten cubits from brim to brim, circular in form, and its height was five cubits, and thirty cubits in circumference. Under its brim gourds went around encircling it ten to a cubit, completely surrounding the sea; the gourds were in two rows, cast with the rest. It stood on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east; and the sea was set on top of them, and all their rear parts turned inward. It was a handbreadth thick, and its brim was made like the brim of a cup, as a lily blossom; it could hold two thousand baths."
1 Kings 7:23‭-‬26 NASB1995 (emphasis added mine)

1 Cubit = 6 Hand Breadths
1 Cubit = 18 Inches = 1 Foot 6 Inches
1 Handbreadth = 3 Inches

Diameter = 10 Cubits x 18 Inches
Diameter = 180 Inches / 12 Inches
Diameter = 15 Feet from brim to brim

Circumference = 30 Cubits x 18 Inches
Circumference = 540 Inches / 12 Inches
Circumference = 45 Feet around

540 Inches / 3 Inches = 180 Inches
540 Inches / 180 Inches = 3 Inches

45 Feet / 15 Feet = 3 Feet

...therefore...

PI = 3 according to the Bible.


You're welcome!

There are three cubits from the antediluvian forefathers and the builder of the Ark and the Great Pyramid. The common cubit is 17.5 thumbs and this is the horizontal-breadth cubit commonly used for horizontal measures. This cubit is five handbreadths of 3.5 thumbs. Two handbreadths are a span which is then 7 thumbs.

The mekutzah or angle cubit is 21 thumbs, consisting of 3 spans of 7 thumbs each, which are of course 6 handbreadths. The vertical height cubit is from the sacred cube, and is 22 and 2/7ths thumbs, (22.285714...).

The rod is 105 thumbs consisting of 6 rohab horizontal-breadth cubits, (6*17.5=105 thumbs), and on the same rod are five mekutzah angle cubits, (5*21=105 thumbs).

The antediluvian Henok/Noah circle is an earth commensurate circle of 364 degrees, not the Babylonian 360 degree, hexegesimal based, circle of modern math.

 

[daq]

The diameter of the molten sea is given in the 21-thumb angle cubit because, being the diameter of a circle, it deals with angles, and is thus the angle cubit. The diameter being 10 cubits is thus 210 thumbs and the radius is therefore one rod, 105 thumbs, half the diameter.

Area of a Circle

The difference in the number of degrees in a circle does not affect the circumference or size of the circle because it does not change pi and the radius and diameter are in thumbs and cubits, (the main difference in the circle of 364 degrees is the number of degrees in a circle, which does have an impact on geometry, for there are 91 degrees in a quadrant and thus 91 degrees in the right angle of a right triangle, etc., (four more degrees in the circle so that each degree is slightly smaller in the 364 degree circle)).

The circumference of the circle with a diameter of 210 thumbs is 659.7344, essentially 660 thumbs. This is the sevenths cubit of 22.2857. Although 660 divided by 30 is precisely 22 thumbs we are not told how far outward the brim extends beyond the inside of the molten sea at the top. We are simply told that the lip was made like the lip of a cup and that the thickness of the molten sea was a handbreadth.

If the ten cubit diameter is measured from the inside of the lip to the inside of the opposite lip then there is nothing wrong with the math, (meaning the value of pi here), because the line obviously compassed the outside of the molten sea and the brim or lip folded over on itself like the brim or lip of a cup.

If we count the thickness of the brim and double it, because it folds over at the top like a cup, then we are doubling the existing thickness of the sea itself to account for the lip which folds over upon itself at the top for the brim. That adds a handbreadth of 3.5 thumbs roundabout, 7 thumbs on the diameter. The diameter would then be a total of 667 thumbs but isn't included in the diameter measure given because it is relevant to the cubic area inside the molten sea, (the number of baths it held).

667 thumbs is only 1.5 thumbs off from the largest cubit for the circumference of the molten sea:

Circumference without the brim:
10*21 = diameter 210 = circumference 660

Circumference including the brim:
30*22.2857 = 668.5714

If one ignores these differences in cubits then the same will not understand the temple in Ezekiel the Prophet, and will end up essentially with a temple of six hundred sixty and six, breadth, height of the gates, wall, and the outer perimeter which has a profane or common area of fifty cubits roundabout the five hundred cubits on a side, (a total perimeter of six hundred cubits on a side, square, and the whole mountain top is to be most holy).

 

[Humble Penny]

There are three cubits from the antediluvian forefathers and the builder of the Ark and the Great Pyramid. The common cubit is 17.5 thumbs and this is the horizontal-breadth cubit commonly used for horizontal measures. This cubit is five handbreadths of 3.5 thumbs. Two handbreadths are a span which is then 7 thumbs.

The mekutzah or angle cubit is 21 thumbs, consisting of 3 spans of 7 thumbs each, which are of course 6 handbreadths. The vertical height cubit is from the sacred cube, and is 22 and 2/7ths thumbs, (22.285714...).

The rod is 105 thumbs consisting of 6 rohab horizontal-breadth cubits, (6*17.5=105 thumbs), and on the same rod are five mekutzah angle cubits, (5*21=105 thumbs).

The antediluvian Henok/Noah circle is an earth commensurate circle of 364 degrees, not the Babylonian 360 degree, hexegesimal based, circle of modern math.

Here's a link to playlist on YouTube from Insight Mathematics where they show a Babylonian clay tablet known as Plimpton 322. It's fascinating to say the least as it shows the Babylonians dealing with Pythagorean Triples, Trigonometry, etc. long before Pythagoras:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIljB45xT85CdeBmQZ2QiCEnPQn5KQ6ov

After listening to this short lecture it made me think of the biblical units of measure and got me searching to see where in the Bible God discussed these same mathematical principles.

The diameter of the molten sea is given in the 21-thumb angle cubit because, being the diameter of a circle, it deals with angles, and is thus the angle cubit. The diameter being 10 cubits is thus 210 thumbs and the radius is therefore one rod, 105 thumbs, half the diameter.

View attachment 322702
Area of a Circle

The difference in the number of degrees in a circle does not affect the circumference or size of the circle because it does not change pi and the radius and diameter are in thumbs and cubits, (the main difference in the circle of 364 degrees is the number of degrees in a circle, which does have an impact on geometry, for there are 91 degrees in a quadrant and thus 91 degrees in the right angle of a right triangle, etc., (four more degrees in the circle so that each degree is slightly smaller in the 364 degree circle)).

The circumference of the circle with a diameter of 210 thumbs is 659.7344, essentially 660 thumbs. This is the sevenths cubit of 22.2857. Although 660 divided by 30 is precisely 22 thumbs we are not told how far outward the brim extends beyond the inside of the molten sea at the top. We are simply told that the lip was made like the lip of a cup and that the thickness of the molten sea was a handbreadth.

If the ten cubit diameter is measured from the inside of the lip to the inside of the opposite lip then there is nothing wrong with the math, (meaning the value of pi here), because the line obviously compassed the outside of the molten sea and the brim or lip folded over on itself like the brim or lip of a cup.

If we count the thickness of the brim and double it, because it folds over at the top like a cup, then we are doubling the existing thickness of the sea itself to account for the lip which folds over upon itself at the top for the brim. That adds a handbreadth of 3.5 thumbs roundabout, 7 thumbs on the diameter. The diameter would then be a total of 667 thumbs but isn't included in the diameter measure given because it is relevant to the cubic area inside the molten sea, (the number of baths it held).

667 thumbs is only 1.5 thumbs off from the largest cubit for the circumference of the molten sea:

Circumference without the brim:
10*21 = diameter 210 = circumference 660

Circumference including the brim:
30*22.2857 = 668.5714

If one ignores these differences in cubits then the same will not understand the temple in Ezekiel the Prophet, and will end up essentially with a temple of six hundred sixty and six, breadth, height of the gates, wall, and the outer perimeter which has a profane or common area of fifty cubits roundabout the five hundred cubits on a side, (a total perimeter of six hundred cubits on a side, square, and the whole mountain top is to be most holy).

Could you demonstrate that a circle has 364°? I've never heard of that or seen that demonstrated before. Also I haven't heard of these other cubits you mentioned before, from what I know the ancients didn't work with decimals or fractions in Egypt and Babylon but used whole numbers.

 

[daq]

Here's a link to playlist on YouTube from Insight Mathematics where they show a Babylonian clay tablet known as Plimpton 322. It's fascinating to say the least as it shows the Babylonians dealing with Pythagorean Triples, Trigonometry, etc. long before Pythagoras:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIljB45xT85CdeBmQZ2QiCEnPQn5KQ6ov

After listening to this short lecture it made me think of the biblical units of measure and got me searching to see where in the Bible God discussed these same mathematical principles.


Could you demonstrate that a circle has 364°? I've never heard of that or seen that demonstrated before. Also I haven't heard of these other cubits you mentioned before, from what I know the ancients didn't work with decimals or fractions in Egypt and Babylon but used whole numbers.

A circle can be given any number of degrees. The reason 360 works so well is because it is divisible by so many numbers. It's really nothing more than a man made construct/tool for mathematical purposes. I even saw an architectural site one time using a 372 degree circle in design concepts.

As for "the ancients and Egypt", Egypt didn't exist when the Great Pyramid was built: but these cubits, as well as the 21 thumb cubit, and the thumb, the handbreadth, the span, and the sacred cube are all found therein.

Note that the base side of the cube is 17.5 thumbs (the horizontal rohab cubit).

Note that the height of the cube is 22.2857, (the vertical rosh cubit).

Note that the perimeter of the base of the cube is 70 (4*17.5).

Note that the circumference of a circle whose diameter is 22.2857, (22 and 2/7ths), is also 70.

Note that the arris or hip angle of the corner stone inside the cube is the rainbow angle, which is 42 degrees, (the angle at which the human eye can see a rainbow in the sky), which is the same as the arris or hip angles of the Great Pyramid at its four corners.

Note that the side angles are 51.859 degrees which is also the face angle of the Great Pyramid.

The corner stone inside the cube is the theoretical corner stone of the four base corners of the Great Pyramid. The theoretical pyramidion or capstone is half the height of the cube, 11 and 1/7th thumbs, (11.142857...). Moreover the Zohar upon which it would have set would have been finished to a cubit, and its own base atop the pyramid would have been seven cubits square, that is, 122.5 thumbs, (7*17.5=122.5), on each of its four sides, a square perimeter of 490 thumbs, (4*122.5=490).

These numbers are found all over the place in the inner passages and chambers and exterior of the Great Pyramid at Giza.

Isaiah 19:19 KJV
19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar [matzebah] at the border thereof to the LORD.

Egypt was divided into lower and upper, (north and south respectively), and the midst of the land and the border thereof, between upper and lower Egypt, is the Giza Plateau where the Great Pyramid stone matzebah was built. The Egyptians did not build the Great Pyramid despite what Egyptology would like the world to believe, (and it was not built to be a tomb).

 

[dani'el]

"Short answer no. When you check the foundations of modern science they are rooted in ancient Babylonian mystery schools parading as "science". True science is from God, so-called "science" is from paganism."
I love that explanation! So many times we see modern "science" start with the premise God does not exist (taking their efforts out of the realm of true science), then tries to prove their belief (now taking them into the realm of a religion). They do so either by 1.) misinterpreting or misrepresenting findings, or when that fails them by 2.) coming up with theories which are then taught as truths.

The discussion on mathematics, which was much used in pagan worship is a good example of the first- misuse of truth. The reference to things like the theory of evolution is a great example of the second- misrepresentation of theories. And I might note their theories get more insane all the time. Quantum Physics used to demonstrate there are multiple (even infinite) universes, but denying that any of them could contain God is a great example of both 1 & 2.

edit: and by the way, that pagans worshiped math and geometry makes the fact Pythagoras was pagan relevant. They worshiped it so much that when he dropped the hypotenuse inside the Greeks "perfect rectangle" they became angry and killed him. Or at least that is one story. Some doubt he even existed, and if he did he became as a mythological figure himself. There are many stories about his life and death, many of which were so wild they could easily masquerade as modern science today!

 

[daq]

and by the way, that pagans worshiped math and geometry makes the fact Pythagoras was pagan relevant. They worshiped it so much that when he dropped the hypotenuse inside the Greeks "perfect rectangle" they became angry and killed him. Or at least that is one story. Some doubt he even existed, and if he did he became as a mythological figure himself. There are many stories about his life and death, many of which were so wild they could easily masquerade as modern science today!

In that case it's just as relevant where your TV, radio, or computer was made: were they made in pagan China or maybe Japan where they still worship ancestors? If so then be fair and equal in your judgment and put away those "pagan things".

 

[Humble Penny]

A circle can be given any number of degrees. The reason 360 works so well is because it is divisible by so many numbers. It's really nothing more than a man made construct/tool for mathematical purposes. I even saw an architectural site one time using a 372 degree circle in design concepts.

As for "the ancients and Egypt", Egypt didn't exist when the Great Pyramid was built: but these cubits, as well as the 21 thumb cubit, and the thumb, the handbreadth, the span, and the sacred cube are all found therein.

View attachment 322710

Note that the base side of the cube is 17.5 thumbs (the horizontal rohab cubit).

Note that the height of the cube is 22.2857, (the vertical rosh cubit).

Note that the perimeter of the base of the cube is 70 (4*17.5).

Note that the circumference of a circle whose diameter is 22.2857, (22 and 2/7ths), is also 70.

Note that the arris or hip angle of the corner stone inside the cube is the rainbow angle, which is 42 degrees, (the angle at which the human eye can see a rainbow in the sky), which is the same as the arris or hip angles of the Great Pyramid at its four corners.

Note that the side angles are 51.859 degrees which is also the face angle of the Great Pyramid.

The corner stone inside the cube is the theoretical corner stone of the four base corners of the Great Pyramid. The theoretical pyramidion or capstone is half the height of the cube, 11 and 1/7th thumbs, (11.142857...). Moreover the Zohar upon which it would have set would have been finished to a cubit, and its own base atop the pyramid would have been seven cubits square, that is, 122.5 thumbs, (7*17.5=122.5), on each of its four sides, a square perimeter of 490 thumbs, (4*122.5=490).

View attachment 322711

These numbers are found all over the place in the inner passages and chambers and exterior of the Great Pyramid at Giza.

Isaiah 19:19 KJV
19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar [matzebah] at the border thereof to the LORD.

Egypt was divided into lower and upper, (north and south respectively), and the midst of the land and the border thereof, between upper and lower Egypt, is the Giza Plateau where the Great Pyramid stone matzebah was built. The Egyptians did not build the Great Pyramid despite what Egyptology would like the world to believe, (and it was not built to be a tomb).

I'm enjoying our discussions here brother daq and I do like these illustrations you're providing. But before we jump into the details I want to understand the foundation of where you're getting your knowledge from, because from what I am able to see it is mainly based upon this idea of pyramids.

As a separate question if you don't believe the Egyptians built the pyramids then who did? Aside from this second question I'm still having a hard time visualizing a circle less than or greater than 360° Degrees especially since we know that half of a circle is 180° Degrees and a quarter of a circle is 90° Degrees. Maybe I'm not catching what you're saying?

In that case it's just as relevant where your TV, radio, or computer was made: were they made in pagan China or maybe Japan where they still worship ancestors? If so then be fair and equal in your judgment and put away those "pagan things".

It's not so much whether or not a pagan made something that makes it sinful brother daq, the point being made is that some of the foundational knowledge is not biblical at all. Even Paul said that it wasn't a sin to eat food that was known to be sacrificed to idols if one bought it in the marketplace: he only encouraged those stronger in the faith to not eat those foods in front of new converts just recently leaving paganism and idolatry.

 

[Humble Penny]

@daq To add on another observation of degrees in a circle and square I do know that you can have angles greater or less than 360° Degrees but, I don't see how it's possible for either geometrical shape to contain more than that. I mean sure you can have many revolutions which will give you degrees greater than 360° Degrees, yet at the end of the day when you divide those number of revolutions by the number of degrees in a circle it comes back to 360° Degrees.

 

[Humble Penny]

Here in this short but wonderful presentation by renowned mathematician Michael S. Schneider he demonstrates the powerful multiplication system of the ancient Egyptians and shows how modern computing is actually based upon this:

As for me personally I am more inclined to say that all knowledge began with God and was correctly given to the Hebrews beginning with Heber; and that Abraham was the one to be a light unto the nations of ancient Babylon, Canaan, and Egypt.