Does Might Make Right?

[cvanwey]

@Moral Orel and @cvanwey , I probably won't continue with this thread. The Christianity and World Religions sub-forum was closed, so I thought I would give this sub-forum a try. But I don't like apologetics. Carry on without me. I'm not sure what I will be doing in the future if anything LOL

Please stick around! Not necessarily in this thread, but in this arena. You are going great, IMHO. I really like this arena, because it forces us to tap into so many differing topics. Makes us more well rounded, and aware of many other viewpoints.

 

[zippy2006]

@Moral Orel and @cvanwey , I probably won't continue with this thread. The Christianity and World Religions sub-forum was closed, so I thought I would give this sub-forum a try. But I don't like apologetics. Carry on without me. I'm not sure what I will be doing in the future if anything LOL

Why was it closed?

 

[zippy2006]

Then what is "right" is arbitrary.

Either way, it's not "might makes right."

 

[cloudyday2]

Why was it closed?

Here is the administrative announcement explaining:
Admin Announcement - Christianity and World Religion

 

[zippy2006]

Here is the administrative announcement explaining:
Admin Announcement - Christianity and World Religion

Strange.

 

[Moral Orel]

Either way, it's not "might makes right."

Isn't arbitrariness the problem with "might makes right" though? Out of the frying pan into the other frying pan, as they say.

 

[zippy2006]

Isn't arbitrariness the problem with "might makes right" though?

No, the problem with "might makes right" is that power or force trumps truth. It's a problem of tyranny. The OP makes no sense and contains no valid argument.

 

[cvanwey]

No, the problem with "might makes right" is that power or force trumps truth. It's a problem of tyranny. The OP makes no sense and contains no valid argument.

Please start at post #43:

"The identification of right and wrong arose from his character and was imposed by his character. Might determined Right."

If so, isn't this conclusion still arbitrary?

How do we know His character is 'truth'?

*************************************

Then trek back to post #29 (as asserted by @Tree of Life ):

"If you disagree with the righteousness of God’s commands then you are in the wrong in some way. You’re either misinformed, misunderstanding, or perhaps simply morally corrupt. There could be no truly sound reasoning against God’s commands because they are most reasonable and wise."

What is your take on this assertion? Do you agree? If so, why?

 

[Tree of Life]

Please start at post #43:

"The identification of right and wrong arose from his character and was imposed by his character. Might determined Right."

If so, isn't this conclusion still arbitrary?

How do we know His character is 'truth'?

"Arbitrary" means "based on nothing". The eternal character of the creator is not nothing. It's the foundation of all reality. There is nothing more meaningful or enduring that God's commands could be based upon.

 

[Tree of Life]

Then what is "right" is arbitrary.

God's commands are based on his eternal character. Far from arbitrary.

 

[Moral Orel]

God's commands are based on his eternal character. Far from arbitrary.

God's character traits are arbitrary. He didn't choose any of them for any good reason, so they're just as arbitrary as the commands He bases on them.

 

[cvanwey]

"Arbitrary" means "based on nothing". The eternal character of the creator is not nothing. It's the foundation of all reality. There is nothing more meaningful or enduring that God's commands could be based upon.

Would you agree with this definition of Arbitrary? "based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system."

 

[cvanwey]

The eternal character of the creator is not nothing. It's the foundation of all reality. There is nothing more meaningful or enduring that God's commands could be based upon.

I never said it was 'nothing.' But they do appear arbitrary.

I trust we agree God has character traits? Meaning, He has 'moral qualities' for which He asserts as right or wrong. He likes things and dislikes things? How do we know His wants are truth? Just because we can trace moral assertions all the way back to a 'first cause', does not then render such thoughts absolute truth, do they?

Are they right because He has the last word, or is it something else? If you assert they are truth, then how do we know?

You see the circular thinking which comes to be?

 

[Tree of Life]

God's character traits are arbitrary. He didn't choose any of them for any good reason, so they're just as arbitrary as the commands He bases on them.

Lol. If this is the case then the truths of mathematics or rationality are also arbitrary because neither were they chosen for any good reason.

 

[Tree of Life]

Would you agree with this definition of Arbitrary? "based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system."

Sure.

 

[Tree of Life]

How do we know His wants are truth?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Just because we can trace moral assertions all the way back to a 'first cause', does not then render such thoughts absolute truth, do they?

God's commands are absolute because they are unable to be evaluated by a higher standard. They are the highest - or the absolute - standard.

Are they right because He has the last word, or is it something else? If you assert they are truth, then how do we know?

There are many senses in which God's commands are "right". It depends on what you mean by "right". One sense in which they are right is that they perfectly comport with human wellbeing and happiness.

 

[Larniavc]

God's commands are based on his eternal character. Far from arbitrary.

I dunno man, God has has a lot of rules for some people but not for others, rule changes and the like.

God is far from consistent.

 

[Larniavc]

Lol. If this is the case then the truths of mathematics or rationality are also arbitrary because neither were they chosen for any good reason.

Yes. That’s correct.

 

[Tree of Life]

Yes. That’s correct.

The truths of mathematics are not arbitrary because they were not chosen - just like God’s character. They are what we call necessarily true. It’s not possible for them to be false and we cannot even imagine a world in which they are false.

 

[Larniavc]

The truths of mathematics are not arbitrary because they were not chosen - just like God’s character. They are what we call necessarily true. It’s not possible for them to be false and we cannot even imagine a world in which they are false.

That’s interesting. If God’s character is not arbitrary then he has no free will. He cannot act outside of his inherent parameters.

I’ve never thought of it like that; thank you for the insight!