Does Jesus really loves us unconditionally?

[QuestionQuest74]

Im aware he died on the cross for us to have salvation and go to heaven, but he requires us to repent and change our lives to have relationship with him. I know he wants the best for us but if Jesus loves us unconditionally we could do whatever and still go to heaven because the love is unconditional ?

 

[Unqualified]

He is the judge too. He is righteous and loves us too much to let us remain at enmity.

 

[Pilgrim]

Im aware he died on the cross for us to have salvation and go to heaven, but he requires us to repent and change our lives to have relationship with him. I know he wants the best for us but if Jesus loves us unconditionally we could do whatever and still go to heaven because the love is unconditional ?

God's love encompasses both unconditional love and the call to repentance. The belief is that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross provides the means for salvation, and God's love is indeed unconditional in offering this gift to humanity. However, repentance is seen as a necessary response to fully embrace the relationship with God. Repentance is the act whereby one turns from his or her sin, idolatry, and creaturely rebellion and turns to God in faith.

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." - Mark 1:15

"Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord." - Acts 3:19

 

[bling]

Using “agape” to describe “Godly type Love”, does not really do it justice. During the first century “agape” to describe “love” had really lost its meaning, so you have it used for anything (this is why it can be used lots of different ways in the Septuagint.

Christ comes along and gives meaning to the meaningless word (agape), but does not use it exclusively for Godly type Love.

Here is something I have written on the subject:

Agape (Love) is really defined by Christ’s words and actions (you can also use 1 Cor. 13 and 1 John 4). It is much more than Parent to Child love, spousal love, love of nation and love for a friend, although Agape can be added to these loves and these loves alone can be extremely strong to the point of sacrificing your life. Books have been written on Agape Love and you might read some like CS Lewis “Four Loves”. I developed the following definition: Godly type Love is: selfless, sacrificial, pure charity, originates from God, thought out, the result of a moral decision to humbly accept His Charity, chosen over likely perceived alternatives, unconditional, undeserved, required for Christians to do anything righteous, all consuming, initially requires trust, is the major or only motivation for Christians and is a transaction.

We can do a deep study of Matt. 18, but the conclusion is the Master can forgive a huge debt (an act of Love) but that does not mean forgiveness toke place if the person forgiven by God does not humbly accept being forgiven as pure undeserved charity (Love).

God Loves all those who go to hell, but everyone of them has flat out refused to humbly accept God’s Love as pure undeserved charity and continued to refuse until there is no way they would ever accept, since they do not like that type of Love, they would be very unhappy in heaven where there is only Godly type Love.

Adam and Eve are described as being “very good” but that does not mean “perfect” like Christ was and is. If Adam and Eve had Godly type Love instinctively it would not be Godly type Love, so they had to obtain this Love.

Obtaining Godly type Love so we can love like God (the greatest possible gift He could give us) is our objective so we can Love God and others with all our heart soul, mind, and energy.

The big difference between Godly type Love and other loves is it is totally unselfish, we Love not in any way or portion of the Love for something we might or will get out of it or to pay something back, but totally because that is the way we are. It has nothing to do with whom we are Loving (not because they are fellow citizens of earth, even). We expect nothing in return, but sometimes do get something back but that was not the intension. We do not “have” to Love the person to fulfill some task or achieve something, but get to Love the person because we are lovers. That does not mean everyone we try to Love accepts our Love as it was given and thus completes the transaction of Love (Actual Love for a person will not take place if the receiver of the Love does not accept the Love as it was given unconditionally and as charity).

Our free will on earth is only need to enable us to make Godly type Love our choice, because an instinctive Love would be a robotic type of love and not Godly type Love. We have free will to choose to accept God’s free undeserving gift of Love in the form of forgiveness or we can choose to continue sinning for the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.

One of the unique things about “Godly type Love” is that if a being extends that Love to another being and the second being accepts that Love as it was given (unconditionally and undeserving) that the second being will Love the first being back with even greater love than was expressed initially. Now, God is not trying to Love us to get us to Love Him back (that would be selfish on His part), but that is part of the definition to Godly type Love and it happens automatically. The problem is always getting people to accept God’s charity.

Adam and Eve did not “obey” God because they did not Love God with a Godly type Love, but they would certainly love God with a wonderful child to a wonderful parent type of love. Parental love is not strong enough and to make the leap to Godly type Love is not possible for humans by themselves, but God can give them that power if they want it. Wanting Godly type Love is like wanting to be selfless instead of selfish.

It appears that God is doing everything He can and allowing things He does not like in order to help those “will” humans to initially accept His Love and grow the Love they have obtained. The only initial way for humans to possible obtain Godly type Love seems to be through finally accepting God’s Love in the form of forgiveness of our sins (this takes faith and humility) and then “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Once we have the gift of Godly type Love then we can grow that Love through use and His help. Trusting (faith) God can be the result of realize nothing else (including ourselves) can be trusted. Humility to some degree happens to all of us at some times in our lives. The lack of faith and humility seems to be the problem (pride).

This is no small subject and I have personally thought about it long and hard. I find few theologians expounding these ideas, but from many adult classes I have taught, discussion on boards like this and especially using these ideas in serving others, I have honed my believes.

Why “Hell”?

From my study of “hell” it is not a place of eternal punishment, but a place that destroys what is thrown in it over time and the greater sinner a person is the longer they are punished. It is the second death and the sinner is not talked about having eternal life even in hell.

Hell helps define to the believer the severity of his sins. We define the severity of a crime by the punishment and that is what God is helping us with. Humans are made such that “...he that is forgiven much will Love much…” so sin carries a huge price tag (debt) so we that are forgiven will Love much which is our objective in this life.

There are benefits to punishing the criminal that God is aware of and would want us to have and see, but has provided away for us to not have to physically experience directly (Christ went to the cross).

There is also the problem of dealing with those that have had full opportunity to accept God’s Love in the form of forgiveness, but have rejected it and will never accept it freely (with likely alternatives). God cannot force them to Love Him and heaven is just one huge Love feast, so where do they go to be happy if they would not like heaven?

 

[Laodicean60]

Oh yes, and humans can't fathom the love of God.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Im aware he died on the cross for us to have salvation and go to heaven, but he requires us to repent and change our lives to have relationship with him. I know he wants the best for us but if Jesus loves us unconditionally we could do whatever and still go to heaven because the love is unconditional ?

I believe your approaching the thought process here from the incorrect angle.

God loves us "unconditionally" in that He gave everything (HIS Son, His life) in order to reconcile us to Himself. He gave everything unconditionally, and gave it before we even knew to ask.

Since God's love for us had no conditions (He's not coming to us saying He will, because He already has) then our love for Him should be equally unconditional - if we have truly been reconciled to God.

In other words, we should desire to do things pleasing to God.

Under our own power we cannot do the things pleasing to God, but once reconciled to God He also gives us strength to want and to do His Will.

God describes this like a marriage where two parties love one another and reflect one another in a beautiful way.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Im aware he died on the cross for us to have salvation and go to heaven, but he requires us to repent and change our lives to have relationship with him. I know he wants the best for us but if Jesus loves us unconditionally we could do whatever and still go to heaven because the love is unconditional ?

God loves everyone. He loves His Son imtimately, and those who are in His Son also.

He does not love everyone unconditionally, because He calls sinners to Christ, to repent of their sins. Otherwise they will suffer His wrath eternally.

 

[Strong in Him]

Im aware he died on the cross for us to have salvation and go to heaven, but he requires us to repent and change our lives to have relationship with him.

He asks us to come to him and believe in him.
Anyone who has accepted him and his teaching and knows, and has received, his awesome love, is in a relationship with him. It's not a matter of "you change your life first, and if it's good enough, I will accept you."

I know he wants the best for us but if Jesus loves us unconditionally we could do whatever and still go to heaven because the love is unconditional ?

Love is not a matter of "you do what you like; I will always agree with it, will never contradict you and will put up with anything you do." Love involves boundaries and discipline. I have read accounts of children who were given no guidelines/boundaries by their parents, who later said "they didn't love me enough to care."

Besides, once someone has really known, and received, God's amazing love, I am fairly sure the idea of deliberately hurting someone who has done so much for them is not an option.
It would like be falling in love with the most amazing woman/man, loving their company and then thinking "now, how far can I push this? They love me, so it must be fine if I have an abortion/get into debt/kill their relative; they'll still love me."
A person who is in love would not even think of such an academic question. Why would they?

God's love is unconditional because he says "you do not have to do x, y or z in order to receive/be worthy of my love." Just as well; none of us would ever be good enough.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Im aware he died on the cross for us to have salvation and go to heaven, but he requires us to repent and change our lives to have relationship with him. I know he wants the best for us but if Jesus loves us unconditionally we could do whatever and still go to heaven because the love is unconditional ?

This might be true if salvation was merely a covenant contract. But it is more than that. It is also a living reality. If a person becomes born again, they will begin to bear the fruit of the righteous tree they have become. It is not that He "requires" us to change our lives; it is that changed living is the result of the new life. It is inevitable and unavoidable. A good tree will put forth good fruit. Because we are new creatures, we can do "anything we want" when we walk according to the new spirit that has been born into us. As John said, that which is born of God does not sin because it cannot sin, and that because it is born of God and is of his seed.
Our salvation is not a day-by-day extension of mercy. His mercy was extended at the cross. It is finished. Today, our salvation is maintained by His faithfulness and justice. He forgives us of our sins and cleanses us of any unrighteousness based on what He did on the cross. He is faithful to do it.
Those who continually sin after their claim to salvation are merely showing that they are not saved and never were. They are not new creatures, nor do they have the nature of God in their spirits. They are the proverbial wolves in sheep clothing.
I am not suggesting that believers are perfect and never sin. We still have a flesh and unrenewed mind to deal with. But the core of our being is now born of God. If we follow the inclinations of that inner man, we in fact will never sin.

 

[fli]

Im aware he died on the cross for us to have salvation and go to heaven, but he requires us to repent and change our lives to have relationship with him. I know he wants the best for us but if Jesus loves us unconditionally we could do whatever and still go to heaven because the love is unconditional?

You say: “If God really loved us unconditionally, we could do whatever and still go to heaven.”


Heaven is God's home. Don't you think that God can love someone unconditionally yet expect them to conduct themselves by respecting His wishes while living in His home. God has an obligation to all His guests to ensure they are comfortable and enjoy themselves while in Heaven. He expects all guests in His home to be respectful towards each other as well as toward Himself. Therefore, even though He loves everyone, He rejects those that will not conduct themselves respectfully to everyone.


The way that God determines who gets into Heaven is by testing them while in the flesh. If people agree to His authority and law, while in the flesh, He knows they will obey them in heaven when they are not tempted by the desires of the flesh. When someone enters into Jesus for salvation they start a process called sanctification. In this process Jesus convicts people of their bad behavior. To make it through sanctification and get into heaven the person must be spiritual minded.


Romans 7:25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. NKJV


Above is how Paul describing the spiritual minded person. In his mind he agrees with God's law even though he cannot make his flesh abide by the law.


Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." NKJV


Above is the law of love. We are to love God above all. We are to love Christian brethren as Jesus loved us and we love our neighbor as we love ourselves. We agree those laws are right and just. We agree that God has the right to discipline us if our behavior does not agree with the law.


1 Corinthians 11:30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV


In Corinth there were a group of alcoholics whose behavior did not conform to the law of love. Jesus disciplined those who were weak and sick to get them to change their behavior.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. NKJV


They, the drunk Corinthians, built on the foundation of Jesus with sinful works. The ones that did not repent, went to sleep, died and went to heaven smelling of smoke but they got in. They did not repent and change behavior. God loved them unconditionally and let them into heaven.

When they died under discipline it proved they loved Jesus more than the pleasures of the world. They agreed that God's law was right and God had every right to kill them. They, by the Spirit, put to death the sins of the flesh. They were spiritual minded people. Free of the flesh they will obey God in heaven.


Christians who kill the desires of the flesh and work with Jesus are more pleasing to God. They also prove they can be trusted with more important positions in heaven.

 

[Jipsah]

For God so loved the world that most of the people He ever created will scream in agony through all eternity. Hmmmm...

 

[Laodicean60]

For God so loved the world that most of the people He ever created will scream in agony through all eternity. Hmmmm...

It's not that God wants it you want it by choice. He won't violate your free will.

 

[fli]

For God so loved the world that most of the people He ever created will scream in agony through all eternity. Hmmmm...

Matthew 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. NKJV

I certainly will not disagree with the fact that the majority of people will not find the way. The scriptures are clear on that.


John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV


In the OT those who looked forward to God's savior went to paradise in the earth when they died. After Jesus' crucifixion those who believed in Him went to heaven upon their death. Those in Christ will be judged on their works to determine rewards. There is no condemnation for those in Christ.


Everyone else that has died or will die without believing God has gone to hell. They were not judged on their works. They were judged condemned because they did not believe God. In the OT they did not believe that He would send a savior. In the NT they did not believe in Jesus. There will be another judgment for them. They will be judged on their works at the white throne.


Genesis 12: 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." NKJV

God was to make Abraham a great nation. He promised to bless those that blessed the nation he became. The work they will be judged on is how they treated Jesus' brethren. All those that think they can get by with their good works will see if their works are good enough.


Matthew 12:29 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad. NKJV


Mark 9:40 For he who is not against us is on our side. NKJV


Jesus clarified who was for or against Him. Anyone not against Him is on His side and blessed Him.


Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; …..... 40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' NKJV


Above is the white throne judgment where God blesses those who blessed Him and His brethren. Verse 34 the sheep go to a kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world. The kingdom they go to is on the new world.


Revelation 22:2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. NKJV


The children of God get spiritual bodies during the resurrection.


1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. NKJV


Our spiritual bodies are immortal and never need healing. The nations are flesh and blood people. They are the ones from the Matthew 25 judgment. Therefore, with the redeemed and those from the white throne judgment a great number from the earth do not get thrown into the lake of fire to suffer forever.


Notice all from the white throne judgment showed love and respect towards God. If they love and respect Him they will try to live by His rules. That and the fact His children will rule over them with an iron hand they should be able to respect each other.

Matthew 25: 41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; …............... 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." NKJV


Those who did not believe in Jesus either called God a liar or chose not to be with Him in heaven. The ones from the white throne proved they were against Him. The goats would have been in constant conflict with the God, God's appointed ruler of the kingdom and the sheep. It would have been constant warfare. God loved both groups and gave justice to both groups.

 

[Jipsah]

Those who did not believe in Jesus either called God a liar or chose not to be with Him in heaven.

That's the traditional rationalization for the idea that God condemns all unbelievers to eternal torture. Doesn't display a lot of love for the damned, does it? Saying "it's their own fault",. even if true, still doesn't make torture merciful, does it?

The ones from the white throne proved they were against Him. The goats would have been in constant conflict with the God, God's appointed ruler of the kingdom and the sheep. It would have been constant warfare. God loved both groups and gave justice to both groups.

Somehow an infinity of horrific torture for the crime of not believing the the Christian Faith is true is, by any human standard, far from just. To call it "love" seems to me the very height of hypocrisy. There's no love in torture, precisely the opposite.

I can, and do, be;lieve that God loved, and loves, His creatures. That forces me to reject any doctrine that paints Him as a pitiless, merciless, tyrant Who condemns anyone who offended Him to eternal torment. That is not what He showed as when He dwelt among us, is it?

 

[Jipsah]

It's not that God wants it you want it by choice.

Rubbish. No one chooses eternal torture.

He won't violate your free will.

Tell that to Pharoah, or Balaam, or Jonah, or St. Paul. That''s simply nonsense that people spout to make their "poor God, there's just nothing He can do", nonsense seem like it makes sense, which it does not. If God wants something, it happens.

Our "Free Will" trumps God's Will? What lunacy! We "will" all kind of crud that never happens. Our vaunted "free will" is as corrupt as the rest of us, and is precisely what causes us to sin! But we're supposed to think it somehow ties God's hands? Insanity!

 

[Tuur]

Somehow an infinity of horrific torture for the crime of not believing the the Christian Faith is true is, by any human standard, far from just.

That's like criticizing a doctor because someone dies after refusing medical treatment. We are already condemned. Christ offers us a way to escape condemnation, a way He paid for with His on life.

 

[Sabertooth]

...but if Jesus loves us unconditionally we could do whatever and still go to heaven because the love is unconditional ?

His LOVE is unconditional, but His HOLINESS is not. Even if He just wanted to give us a hug --and He does!-- we could not stand in His Presence in our unredeemed state.
He needed --and came up with-- a plan to satisfy both.

You seem to be bounded up by legalism. Have you been BORN AGAIN?

 

[Laodicean60]

Rubbish. No one chooses eternal torture.

Once hearing the gospels and understanding the rules. When this program ends there are only two places left Heaven or Hell.

Tell that to Pharoah, or Balaam, or Jonah, or St. Paul. That''s simply nonsense that people spout to make their "poor God, there's just nothing He can do", nonsense seem like it makes sense, which it does not. If God wants something, it happens.

Our "Free Will" trumps God's Will? What lunacy! We "will" all kind of crud that never happens. Our vaunted "free will" is as corrupt as the rest of us, and is precisely what causes us to sin! But we're supposed to think it somehow ties God's hands? Insanity!

You do have a point here thank you. You reminded me God is sovereign and in each of those situations God's plan or will had to move forward. Romans 6 All are slaves to sin then we are set free from bondage through Christ. This the free will:
Rom 6:16
Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.

 

[Sabertooth]

The two Laws that even Christians are obligated to are:

1. Love the Lord, your God, with all of your mind, strength, heart & soul; and
2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Jesus' Cross (Death, Burial & Resurrection) just gives us the starting point & power to take up that walk.

Gotta Serve Somebody, Bob Dylan (1979)

 

[fhansen]

Im aware he died on the cross for us to have salvation and go to heaven, but he requires us to repent and change our lives to have relationship with him. I know he wants the best for us but if Jesus loves us unconditionally we could do whatever and still go to heaven because the love is unconditional ?

God gave us the gift of free will, so that we would choose: good over evil, life over death, God over no God. He loves us unconditionally but allows us to set conditions; we can refuse His love. If we accept and value and embrace His love, then we begin to love as well, as He does. That's His purpose for man. Otherwise we haven't really even opened the door.