Does God Need Your Permission in Order to Save You?

[corinth77777]

No, that’s not it. Go and read the verse.

Agreed read it too fast....But there are numerous of scriptures that involve our decisions. FACT is grace is not passive, and God saves us from many things, but salvation is not directly referring to heaven when one dies; even though that is a byproduct, of life with Him now.
Being delivered from present sin. AS IS MENTIONED IN TITUS

 

[BNR32FAN]

How does that answer the question?

Well Paul tells us exactly why people receive the wrath of God.

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God

 

[Hammster]

I read it and that's How I got my answer.
But if I read it too quick I'll post it.

If it helps, he doesn’t tell them to choose God.

 

[Hammster]

Well Paul tells us exactly why people receive the wrath of God.

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God

That would describe the reprobate, that’s for sure.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That would describe the reprobate, that’s for sure.

Well if their own stubbornness is building up the righteous wrath of God upon them then it is quite clear that God desires our cooperation in order to receive salvation.

 

[Hammster]

Well if their own stubbornness is building up the righteous wrath of God upon them then it is quite clear that God desires our cooperation in order to receive salvation.

How so?

 

[BNR32FAN]

How so?

I don’t understand how that statement is not self explanatory.

 

[corinth77777]

[

If it helps, he doesn’t tell them to choose God.

Yes scratch that passage...but there are numerous others..where obedience is required. GOD HELPED THOSE WHO OBEYED HIM.

 

[corinth77777]

[

Yes scratch that passage...but there are numerous others..where obedience is required. GOD HELPED THOSE WHO OBEYED HIM.

One can lead a horse to water but cant make him drink . If God made man with free will...as He has why would he make him drink......One can be lead to repentance, but still need to repent. Inside I felt a relief of happiness...maybe in the simplicity that with His yoke it's just easier....

 

[corinth77777]

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked mandoeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

 

[Hammster]

I don’t understand how that statement is not self explanatory.

Does this mean that you won’t answer my question?

 

[Hammster]

[

Yes scratch that passage...but there are numerous others..where obedience is required. GOD HELPED THOSE WHO OBEYED HIM.

I’m sure there are. But I don’t see how that’s relevant.

 

[corinth77777]

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked mandoeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

What can this teach me? For me it teaches me to move forward in faith and not look back, and cast out any vain imagination that sets itself against the knowledge of God.

 

[fhansen]

And what did these ancient churches base these findings on? For instance, where did the ancient churches come to the conclusion that God abandons those He loves (people becoming unjustified)?

They know that God loves all and desires none to perish. So He "abandons" them to their own will, 'left in the hands of their own counsel' as it were. This life isn't a free ride to heaven for some and to hell for the rest; it's a journey with a test, of how we will comport ourselves when the Master is effectively gone away.

The most critical lesson to be learned, and the heart of the New Covenant, is that man needs God; man needs grace to put it another way. "Apart from Me you can do nothing." Adam, and his fallen descendants, thought/think otherwise until they finally learn of that need by experiencing their deprivation and so overcoming the pride and ignorance that separates us from Him. So that they might will rightly when revelation and grace are offered. Obedience can only be based on that relationship, not on man's own efforts as if he possessed any righteousness apart from God. Only God can place His law in man's mind and write it on his heart. And that relationship is entered into and established by faith.

 

[corinth77777]

[

Yes scratch that passage...but there are numerous others..where obedience is required. GOD HELPED THOSE WHO OBEYED HIM.

What it shows is that being delivered [saved]
Is depending upon God's faithfulness.
It is then His faithfulness whereby we will find deliverence.
As the ark in Noah's Day was a faithful source of their deliverence.....Which is Salvation in and of itself. However to be delivered by the source you must obey.
Did they do anything to earn their source of deliverence? NO, BUT TO BE DELIVERED BY IT THEY MUST BE ACTIVE, "BE" IN THE ARK.
SO WHY DID SOME PERISH IN THE FLOOD?
THEIR HEARTS HAD TURNED AWAY FROM GOD IN THEIR SIN.

MY NOTES TO MYSELF
AS A MATTER OF FACT, THEY WOULD HAVE NEEDED TO BE ALIVE FROM SIN.
DID THEY KNOW OF THE FLOOD COMING? YES! SO WHY DID THEY NOT HEED THE WARNING? @Hammster

 

[Hammster]

They know that God loves all and desires none to perish. So He "abandons" them to their own will, 'left in the hands of their own counsel' as it were. This life isn't a free ride to heaven for some and to hell for the rest; it's a journey with a test, of how we will comport ourselves when the Master is effectively gone away.

The most critical lesson to be learned, and the heart of the New Covenant, is that man needs God; man needs grace to put it another way. "Apart from Me you can do nothing." Adam, and his fallen descendants, thought/think otherwise until they finally learn of that need by experiencing their deprivation and so overcoming the pride and ignorance that separates us from Him. So that they might will rightly when revelation and grace are offered. Obedience can only be based on that relationship, not on man's own efforts as if he possessed any righteousness apart from God. Only God can place His law in man's mind and write it on his heart. And that relationship is entered into and established by faith.

What you’re saying, then, is that they took verses out of context and built a theology around that. Not much has changed.

 

[corinth77777]

They know that God loves all and desires none to perish. So He "abandons" them to their own will, 'left in the hands of their own counsel' as it were. This life isn't a free ride to heaven for some and to hell for the rest; it's a journey with a test, of how we will comport ourselves when the Master is effectively gone away.

The most critical lesson to be learned, and the heart of the New Covenant, is that man needs God; man needs grace to put it another way. "Apart from Me you can do nothing." Adam, and his fallen descendants, thought/think otherwise until they finally learn of that need by experiencing their deprivation and so overcoming the pride and ignorance that separates us from Him. So that they might will rightly when revelation and grace are offered. Obedience can only be based on that relationship, not on man's own efforts as if he possessed any righteousness apart from God. Only God can place His law in man's mind and write it on his heart. And that relationship is entered into and established by faith.

Which are the laws of Love, Faith, Spirit and life?

 

[corinth77777]

What you’re saying, then, is that they took verses out of context and built a theology around that. Not much has changed.

Sounds like universal salvation. .bit new age to me

 

[corinth77777]

Sounds like universal salvation. .bit new age to me

For they dont believe anyone goes to hell
Hopefully I iz wrong or understood wrong.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Does this mean that you won’t answer my question?

If their stubbornness is the cause of their condemnation then it’s pretty obvious that their cooperation is required.