Does God Need Your Permission in Order to Save You?

[corinth77777]

That's nice. Either way the concession, surrender, permission isn't a one-time only event; it's a continuous walk; we can cooperate-and continue to -or not.

If we believe in the same gosple...
I actually agree that it's a continued walk...
I believe we must labor to enter His rest
I believe we must remain in Him

But then again that's because I believe the statement made by DW...that salvation [deliverence ] is being caught up in what God is doing.

Look at all the stories....and even Jesus's life
They obeyed Moses...Red sea parts
They obeyed to look up at the snake to be healed and delivered, they did and were delivered.
Asa obeyed to get rid of Idols among the people and they had rest in their land.

And the list goes on and on

Jesus obeys the Father and the father does the work.

One conclusion I come to is that...there is no boasting..in Christ...I do believe if Abraham was justified more than once we can be too...

 

[corinth77777]

Of course it is. God doesn't save us without our consent, as Augustine put it. He can save us any which way He wants, but instead requires that we make the decision, even as that decision is aided by grace, but grace that we can still resist.

Sounds like a question this Pastor asked in Bible Study Was Jesus capable of sin.
AND AT THIS POINT MY ANSWER WAS HE HAD THE CAPACITY...BUT HE WAS NOT ABLE...
Therefore my thought is like someone suggested in another post. GOD IS Spirit.
And He looks at the heart. And truly the heart wants to do what is desired to live...but the habits of the flesh are there. SO IF GOD TRULY HAS A GRIPP ON US THERE IS NO WAY OF TURNING BACK TO SLAVERY.
MEANING YOU MAY HAVE THE CAPACITY BUT ARE UNABLE...BECAUSE PART OF TRANFORMING TO THE IMAGE OF GOD IS TO LOOK MORE AND MORE LIKE HIM.
AS THE PASSAGE SAYS GOD'S SEED REMAINS IN HIM AND HE CANNOT GO ON TO SIN. DOING WHAT HE SAYS BRINGS LIFE.....AND IF WE KNOW THIS WHY WOULD WE WANT TO SET OUR HEARTS TO SIN?
THOSE WHO ARE SONS OF GOD ARE LEAD BY THE SPIRIT. WHY? BECAUSE WHAT YOU OBEY BECOMES YOUR GOD...JESUS JUST MADE IT OBVIOUS THAT HE WAS INDEED THE SON OF GOD, FOR EVEN HE HAD THE CAPACITY TO SIN HE WAS NOT ABLE...IN THE BODY BY DEED BECAUSE HE WAS GOD.
OUR INTEREST THEN SHOULD BE ON EATING HIS BODY EVERY DAY FOR SPIRITUAL LIFE.

 

[corinth77777]

Sounds like a question this Pastor asked in Bible Study Was Jesus capable of sin.
AND AT THIS POINT MY ANSWER WAS HE HAD THE CAPACITY...BUT HE WAS NOT ABLE...
Therefore my thought is like someone suggested in another post. GOD IS Spirit.
And He looks at the heart. And truly the heart wants to do what is desired to live...but the habits of the flesh are there. SO IF GOD TRULY HAS A GRIPP ON US THERE IS NO WAY OF TURNING BACK TO SLAVERY.
MEANING YOU MAY HAVE THE CAPACITY BUT ARE UNABLE...BECAUSE PART OF TRANFORMING TO THE IMAGE OF GOD IS TO LOOK MORE AND MORE LIKE HIM.
AS THE PASSAGE SAYS GOD'S SEED REMAINS IN HIM AND HE CANNOT GO ON TO SIN. DOING WHAT HE SAYS BRINGS LIFE.....AND IF WE KNOW THIS WHY WOULD WE WANT TO SET OUR HEARTS TO SIN?
THOSE WHO ARE SONS OF GOD ARE LEAD BY THE SPIRIT. WHY? BECAUSE WHAT YOU OBEY BECOMES YOUR GOD...JESUS JUST MADE IT OBVIOUS THAT HE WAS INDEED THE SON OF GOD, FOR EVEN HE HAD THE CAPACITY TO SIN HE WAS NOT ABLE...IN THE BODY BY DEED BECAUSE HE WAS GOD.
OUR INTEREST THEN SHOULD BE ON EATING HIS BODY EVERY DAY FOR SPIRITUAL LIFE.

With all that said...I see where I may be wrong.
For being delivered from penalty of sin
Is not the same as being delivered from the power of sin in this life.

And Seems like from Titus one of the reasons he saves us...to purify a people zealous of good works...wow that means we should be happy to do what is good.

 

[fhansen]

Is He right? Is it new age? And what is His gosple that differs from yours....?

I've considered you're question carefully and the the answer is...NO! So there you have it-and now you know. It's actually ancient-age; the gospel as taught by our Lord Jesus Christ and then His apostles and handed down to and through His church.

The other "gospel" teaches that man's will plays no role whatsoever in his salvation, even in the capacity to simply say "no". And that regeneration precedes faith and justification, and it's a one-time event and that some are predestined to heaven and the rest to hell, etc and can never lose their saved status and the whole thing essentially guts or at least diminishes the gospel of its true meaning and value and spreads confusion about God's will for man. Other than that it's not so bad.

 

[fhansen]

Sounds like a question this Pastor asked in Bible Study Was Jesus capable of sin.
AND AT THIS POINT MY ANSWER WAS HE HAD THE CAPACITY...BUT HE WAS NOT ABLE...
Therefore my thought is like someone suggested in another post. GOD IS Spirit.
And He looks at the heart. And truly the heart wants to do what is desired to live...but the habits of the flesh are there. SO IF GOD TRULY HAS A GRIPP ON US THERE IS NO WAY OF TURNING BACK TO SLAVERY.
MEANING YOU MAY HAVE THE CAPACITY BUT ARE UNABLE...BECAUSE PART OF TRANFORMING TO THE IMAGE OF GOD IS TO LOOK MORE AND MORE LIKE HIM.
AS THE PASSAGE SAYS GOD'S SEED REMAINS IN HIM AND HE CANNOT GO ON TO SIN. DOING WHAT HE SAYS BRINGS LIFE.....AND IF WE KNOW THIS WHY WOULD WE WANT TO SET OUR HEARTS TO SIN?
THOSE WHO ARE SONS OF GOD ARE LEAD BY THE SPIRIT. WHY? BECAUSE WHAT YOU OBEY BECOMES YOUR GOD...JESUS JUST MADE IT OBVIOUS THAT HE WAS INDEED THE SON OF GOD, FOR EVEN HE HAD THE CAPACITY TO SIN HE WAS NOT ABLE...IN THE BODY BY DEED BECAUSE HE WAS GOD.
OUR INTEREST THEN SHOULD BE ON EATING HIS BODY EVERY DAY FOR SPIRITUAL LIFE.

In real life we're able to do whatever we want, including turn back away from God. Since Eden this is all about the human will; that's why it took so look for the time to become ripe in human history. With the New Covenant grace is added into the equation in a big way, offered to humanity on a widespread scale, but never is the will of man so overwhelmed that he cannot say "no". At the end of the day some will be barred entrance to heaven who thought they would enter, while others will enter who might've thought otherwise.

 

[Hammster]

As I said, from the ancient churches, and scripture. The church has always understood that we can become justified, living by the Spirit, and become unjustified, living by the flesh. And Scripture attests to the same. God can't be mocked; we reap what we sow. Etc

And what did these ancient churches base these findings on? For instance, where did the ancient churches come to the conclusion that God abandons those He loves (people becoming unjustified)?

 

[corinth77777]

In real life we're able to do whatever we want, including turn back away from God. Since Eden this is all about the human will; that's why it took so look for the time to become ripe in human history. With the New Covenant grace is added into the equation in a big way, offered to humanity on a widespread scale, but never is the will of man so overwhelmed that he cannot say "no". At the end of the day some will be barred entrance to heaven who thought they would enter, while others will enter who might've thought otherwise.

I disagree and Jesus is the reason....as He had the capacity to come down from the cross but He did not. There are those who had walked with God and they were taken...
I believe as one moves forward they may see no need to look back...and at the same time if you look back to what you are in the process of being delivered out of...it may mean your mind is still held hostage to it.
The key to me is that our spirit/heart needs to be delivered and there as we choose to remain close to God, obedient to His will, His life has captured us. Forthwith, No man can pluck you out of my hand. BUT you are right if you agree that this Love is in Christ Jesus as we have chosen to stay close to Him. Those are encouraging words to speak on why we should remain...It's encouraging me right now!

 

[tdidymas]

That's nice. Either way the concession, surrender, permission isn't a one-time only event; it's a continuous walk; we can cooperate-and continue to -or not.

I get from your responses is that you believe your salvation depends on your autonomy, that your destiny is in your control, not God's control. Am I reading you correctly?
TD

 

[LightLoveHope]

It's a simple question, which requires a simple, Yes or No, answer.

Does God Need Your Permission in Order to Save You?

No, but Yes he requires it.

God can do as He wills and place man in a situation He deems fit.
But Jesus emphasised to the disciples He chose them.
But Judas chose to reject Him, and God accepted this as Judas being lost.

John 17:12
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled

Privilege. Jesus has called us His friends, and calls us to share His throne with Him.
This is we will exercise the authority He holds, and judge as He judges.

Some hold as sinners so lost nothing will ever be consistent, true and Holy, for them they will never be like Jesus or have the ability to love in His love. They declare the cross and resurrection and the presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives is not enough to resolve sin, cleanse and purify them to present them as Paul says

Phil 2:15-16
so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

 

[corinth77777]

I get from your responses is that you believe your salvation depends on your autonomy, that your destiny is in your control, not God's control. Am I reading you correctly?
TD

Well it does say choose this day whom you will serve.
It does say trust Christ
It does say the spirit is the Helper
Scripture does show
There are many who died in the wilderness because they didnt mix what they heard with faith...
How about "Enough" governing of ones own
In order to be saved[delivered] by the salvator
JESUS...FOR GOD CAN AND HAS SAVED US FROM MANY THINGS. ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAVED US FROM WAS BRINGING US OUT OF THE DARK......BUT LOOK WHY HE BRINGS US OUT. SO WE CAN BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE.

 

[corinth77777]

Grace is not passive, grace is active
If some one does you a favor, that doesn't mean you play no role in it...so as for autonomy...I would say the control that is exercise is to do[the faith that works by love] what is in regards to receiving the benifit.

 

[corinth77777]

I get from your responses is that you believe your salvation depends on your autonomy, that your destiny is in your control, not God's control. Am I reading you correctly?
TD

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

 

[Hammster]

Well it does say choose this day whom you will serve.

And what are the two choices that Joshua gives them? Context matters.

 

[corinth77777]

I've considered you're question carefully and the the answer is...NO! So there you have it-and now you know. It's actually ancient-age; the gospel as taught by our Lord Jesus Christ and then His apostles and handed down to and through His church.

The other "gospel" teaches that man's will plays no role whatsoever in his salvation, even in the capacity to simply say "no". And that regeneration precedes faith and justification, and it's a one-time event and that some are predestined to heaven and the rest to hell, etc and can never lose their saved status and the whole thing essentially guts or at least diminishes the gospel of its true meaning and value and spreads confusion about God's will for man. Other than that it's not so bad.

I'm also not sure of what comes first regeneration or Justification etc
But one has to be brought in the light, to walk it's path.


I myself have been struggling with that.
But being in the light has to be in some symbol of real life. And it could be in these passages like galatians...:even we have believed in Him in order to be justified by the faith of Him"


Or: "the will of God is that everyone who looks to the son and believes will have life and I will raise Him up on the last day"

Therefore being brought into the light
May be:

because you trusted that He was God.
Meaning recognize who he was, the Son of God, the creator of the universe.

As Peter when asked the question, who do you say I am. THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
AND HE SAID FLESH AND BLOOD DID NOT REVEAL THIS BUT THE FATHER....AND THIS REALIZATION WAS WHAT HE WOULD BUILD HIS CHURCH ON.

THE PROBLEM I HAD AS A BAPTIST...IS I WAS HEARING TO TRUST WHAT HE DID FIRST VS. WHO HE WAS.

IT CAME RELEVANT UPON ASKING THE QUESTION, WERE THERE 2 GOSPELS.
FOR WHY DID JESUS COME PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM AND PAUL THE ATONEMENT, I ENDED UP GETTING IT.
THAT THE GOSPEL WAS JESUS, THAT IF WE PUT OUT TRUST IN Him the ruler and maker of the universe we would find everything we needed including forgiveness of sin.

Now How God draws is important as well...
But I'll stop here for now.

 

[corinth77777]

And what are the two choices that Joshua gives them? Context matters.

God of their fathers..vs. the God of the world Amorites,Idols

Point is there is a choice that has to be made

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's a simple question, which requires a simple, Yes or No, answer.

I think Romans 2 answers this question quite well.

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-8‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[Hammster]

God of their fathers..vs. the God of the world Amorites,Idols

Point is there is a choice that has to be made

No, that’s not it. Go and read the verse.

 

[Hammster]

I think Romans 2 answers this question quite well.

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-8‬ ‭NASB‬‬

How does that answer the question?

 

[corinth77777]

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Grace can be Mercy in the above passage.
And how does one fear[active verb] the Lord, or even come fo fear the Lord

 

[corinth77777]

No, that’s not it. Go and read the verse.

I read it and that's How I got my answer.
But if I read it too quick I'll post it.