Does God invoke FEAR in anyone anymore?

[RonnyRulz]

I do not understand how the concept of intimately and closely knowing and being with God every day is strange.

Revelation 3:20
20 “Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends.

 

[chris777]

Thank you for elaborating a bit more on your perspective, I have gained some insight into your views. I would like more, if you are willing to share.

Do you mind giving a bit more background about yourself.
Like how long you have been a Christian, and how You honestly feel about the Bible.

I get the feeling you don't entirely believe scripture, but I could be just mis understanding you.

I have seen things too, though, I am more skeptical, about who, and what they actually were, than you.

As for those attacking you, keep in mind the scripture, and Jesus words, that We will be hated of all men for his name sake. And if the world hated him, how much more will it hate those who follow him.
And the "tell" verse Ye shall know them by their fruit.

I honestly want to know how you view these things, I may not agree, But We won't know unless you share.

 

[Nadiine]

Yahweh shall brutalize you for your sins ("wrath") unless you believe that Christ was brutalized on the cross as a sin payment ("atonement"). If you believe this, you will be justified by faith.

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Cor 2:14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[RonnyRulz]

You want scripture to back up my claim that we can intimately know God as Friend, Person-To-Person, Face-To-Face?
Here:

Job 29:4
Oh, for the days when I was in my prime, when God's intimate friendship blessed my house,

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

Exodus 33:11
The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.


Is it so wrong that I claim to be like Moses, speaking to the LORD face to face, as a man speaks with his friend?


Luke 5:20
When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."

Luke 12:4
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more.

John 15:14
You are my friends if you do what I command.

John 21:5
He called out to them, "Friends, haven't you any fish?" "No," they answered.

"I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things." - Paul (Philippians 3:8)

"This is Eternal Life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." - John 17:3
"…. So that you may know and believe Me (God), and understand that I am He." - Isaiah 43:10

"Teach me your ways so that I may know you and continue in your favor." - Exodus 33:13

God looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God." - Psalm 53:2

"All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. No one calls on your name or strives to lay hold of you. You have hidden your face from us and made us waste away because of our sins."
-Isaiah 64:6-7

I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance... Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen ! Repent and do the things you did at first." - Revelation 2:2-5

"I will give them a heart to know me." - Jeremiah 24:7

"Even now, declares the Lord, return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning. Rend your heart and not your garments. Return to the Lord your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love, and he relents from sending calamity." - Joel 2:12-13

How could you ever go to God with all your heart, if you did not know Him more than you knew your wife or husband? How would you give God all your heart if you weren't more intimate with Him than you are intimate with ANYONE else? People know almost everything about their husbands/wives, from their favorite color to what kind of pizza they like. Do you know God just as well? All your heart.

Enoch Anointing

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not; for God took him. God is once again looking for those whose ultimate passion above anything else is to walk with God. Micah 6:8 declares that what is good and what God requires of us is that we walk humbly with our God. The reason that God gave unto us his only son and brought into the earth redemption through Jesus was so we could once again come in to fellowship and intimacy with him. When Adam and Eve were in the garden God said that they could freely eat of the tree of life. {Gen 2:16}The tree of life is experiencing the life of God and who He is. That was something they could do as much as they hungered. God would come down in the garden in the cool of the day to walk and talk with his children. {Gen 3:8}The Father loves to be with us more than we could ever want him. After Adam and Eve sinned and the fellowship was broken, God right away put into motion the plan of redemption in Gen 3: 15 "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise His heel." Jesus is the one who has overcome!! and in Gen 3:21 God makes coats of skins and clothed them. Why? So that once again, we could experience the tree of life and taste and see that the Lord is good.

Somebody shared a vision with me not long ago. In this vision they were taken in to a large field and it was full of the mantles of great and mighty men and women of God who have went on before us. There was the anointing of Smith Wigglesworth, Kathryn Kuhlman, John G Lake, Elijah, Elisha and many more. God spoke to them in this vision and said pick up a mantle anyone and just as they thought I could walk in the power of Wigglesworth and have a ministry of great faith or walk in Kuhlmans anointing and have a powerful ministry of healing the sick, when there appeared another mantle the most glorious one of all Enoch!! That was the mantle he chose " to walk with God!" When you choose to seek after the kingdom of heaven and his righteousness then everything else will be added on to you. Lets not run after all the power and miracles in which he does but to know him and his ways.

I think that we need to learn as it was in the life of Brother Lawrence who wrote the book you need to read "Practicing the Presence of God" the importance of a lifestyle of seeking God's face. I believe we can be consumed with the spirit of prayer and pray without ceasing. From the moment you wake till you go to bed all your thoughts are on God meditating on his word, praying in tongues driving to work, praising as you work and having your spirit in communion with God in everything you do. Let your thoughts always be of him, that's how you can live in the spirit, constant fellowship and prayers. My goal is to live in the Glory of God and be close to Jesus and have on my mind the things of God constantly. I believe we can train ourselves to be focused on Jesus in all that we do and everywhere we go. Philip 4:8 " Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy-meditate on these things."

Mary Anointing

What does it mean to be a Mary? I believe that God is looking for those ones who will position themselves at the feet of Jesus and be ones that gaze on his face. More than the power of God and gifting, God calls us to be like Him, this comes out of the Glory. 2 Cor 3:18 " But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the spirit of the Lord." The call of Mary is to be a beholder of God's face because we want to know him and look like him.

God is calling us as a church back to focus. The bible says in Heb 12:1-2 "Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith." We have a race that is before us and that race is what God has called us to do. To run the race we need direction, what we're to do. We need God to supply all the things that we need to finish the race. Most of Christianity's relationship with God in prayer is to seek God for direction and the things that they need God to provide in their life. We want God's power, blessing and favor because we know that without it we can't run or finish the race. There is nothing wrong with seeking God for these things but what I'm saying is that most of our prayer life is in seeking God's hand not His face. When you choose first in your life to be one that's looking on the face of Jesus, the direction, the race and all the things that you have need of are added unto you. The word looking in the Greek literally means to consider attentively. To consider Jesus means to stare at or gaze, attend to with study and behold. God wants us to gaze and study who He is by sitting in the glory seeking His face like Mary.

Luke 10:38-42 declares "Now it happened as they went that He entered a certain village; and a certain woman named Martha welcomed Him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus' feet and heard His word. But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approached Him and said, "Lord do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore, tell her to help me." And Jesus answered and said to her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her." As Mary sat at His feet she was gazing at the beauty of the Lord and positioned in that place of resting and sitting in the glory which was listening prayer, she heard God. Martha thought that all her ministry and the works that she thought she was doing for Jesus was the better part, but Jesus said unto her that what is better and needed most is to be at My feet. Today I find in most Christianity that what you do for God, the race and all the works, gifting and anointing seems to be the focal point, but God says I'm looking for those who will have a passion for Me and love My glory more than anything.
-http://freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=76

So many Christians today are like Martha. Always working, trying to be good Christians, trying to fix their sin, trying to know about God, religious, work work work.
Mary is the place to be. Laying aside your own work to just be near Christ. To know Him intimately.

 

[intricatic]

I do not understand how the concept of intimately and closely knowing and being with God every day is strange.

Revelation 3:20
20 “Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends.

It is quite strange. But I say this in love, as a brother in Christ - I know Him intimately as well, though I wouldn't consider it to be that of an intimate lover.

13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. 20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
(1 Timothy 6:13-21, KJV)

 

[intricatic]

I do think I know where you're coming from with this, though. I also still disagree with the transposition of 'personality' that seems to be occurring in this line of thought.

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
(Matthew 18:20, KJV)

 

[intricatic]

Is it so wrong that I claim to be like Moses, speaking to the LORD face to face, as a man speaks with his friend?

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
(Deuteronomy 34:10, KJV)

 

[RonnyRulz]

Thank you for elaborating a bit more on your perspective, I have gained some insight into your views. I would like more, if you are willing to share.

Do you mind giving a bit more background about yourself.
Like how long you have been a Christian, and how You honestly feel about the Bible.

I get the feeling you don't entirely believe scripture, but I could be just mis understanding you.

I have seen things too, though, I am more skeptical, about who, and what they actually were, than you.

As for those attacking you, keep in mind the scripture, and Jesus words, that We will be hated of all men for his name sake. And if the world hated him, how much more will it hate those who follow him.
And the "tell" verse Ye shall know them by their fruit.

I honestly want to know how you view these things, I may not agree, But We won't know unless you share.

Sure.

I was raised by a christian mom who loves God and is big on doing His Will, which usually consists of helping the poor, helping the homeless, helping those in need, helping children, helping the sick, helping the dying, etc. etc.
I was born on 10-24-85. I was pretty much a christian since birth, and on 2-14-93 I was baptised (I was 7 if I calculate that right, lol) and I grew up rather Pharisee-like, thinking only I had the truth and everyone else was wrong. I began looking into the Qur'an and was like, "This seems to be as true as the Bible." especially because it supported my belief that Jesus wasn't God. I didn't believe in the Trinity. I thought that was ridiculous. I believed Jesus was God's Son, but not God Himself. I debated this furiously with others who believed in the trinity, but would debate the other side (atheists/agnostics) on how God is real. So I was the "only one" with the truth. Literally. Not even other evangelists or people shared my beliefs. Even if they did, I'd disagree with them, LOL.

Throughout my life I had few friends, all which rather never became real friends (more like good acquiantances with hobbies together) or they backstabbed me constantly. Girls would date me for 1 week, 2 weeks, or a month, and then for no reason dump me. This left me completely alone, feeling absolutely rejected, with a heart that was, by the time I was 18, so torn up I was on the verge of emotionally death. I dated another girl who dumped me for some drug dealer and my self-esteem plummited. No one loved me, no one wanted me, no one cared about me, and I was just rejected and horrible. Not because of my arrogance, self-righteousness, or emotional problems, but just because all my friends were complete jerks. (That's what you get when you don't have Christ in your friendships and lack Him in your own life as well.)
[I exclude my parents because I felt as if parents have to love you, so I didn't feel that their love was the love I wanted. It's different when you have to love someone because they're your child and loving that person for who they are as an individual.]

I knew Jesus, I even had communion with Him a few times during my teenage years. He'd even enter my room and I'd spiritually feel Him and spiritually see Him there. He'd be there and accept me and love me. This was only rarely though. I prayed constantly to God to help me, as I had always had a relationship with God, but I didn't know God, and I wasn't His friend. I knew about Him, I had some special moments with Him, but I was far from knowing Him. I knew only theology, religion, my own views, my interpretation of the Bible, etc.

During highschool, when things were getting worse and worse and worse, more and more pain just stacking on top of my already torn to pieces heart, I met a few people I hung out with in some of my classes. In my sophomore year I met one guy who invited me to his church, but I was like, "Church is for losers. They don't know God. They're strange, speaking in tongues is fricken weirdos, they don't know anything." despite the fact that I didn't know God either. I figured that nobody if I God was knowable, then I'd know Him. So knowing God must'nt go beyond what I experienced. I'd say that is a good idea of where my perspective and belief was.

I met two more friends in my junior year in highschool. They invited me to their youth group and I was like "I'll think about it." but never went. I also had, the same year, a friend in a different class who did the same. Then one day, when walking with one of these friends, the 3 others come over, and I found out they all went to the same church and knew each other. They all, seperately, and unknowingly, invited the same person to the same church. I felt this was God, and I was very desperate for friends. One of my friends said he'd drive me, and I agreed to go with him if he showed me a picture of this girl I talked with online. LOL. So yea, I went to the youth group.
People accepted me there, and actually cared about me. They liked me and were nice to me. I actually felt the Love of God, and wasn't rejected. From the first day I helped set up for the service, and from that day on I would be a servant in that church, for 2 years working my butt off like crazy with zeal and committment that were unmatched by the rest of the youth leaders.

I was so incredibly grateful for my new friends. I also began to date one of the girls in leadership, and was SO happy. I went to band banquet with her and my life was so great. But my heart was still torn to pieces, because anything anyone would say that was even close to me thinking it was negative, would hurt my feelings. I was hypersensitive as one would say, but for good reason because I had been hurt and rejected all my life.

3 days before youth camp my g/f broke up with me. I was crush yet again. Still in incredible pain. I went to youth camp, and that's when my life changed forever. On monday, the evangelist gave his testimony of how he was molested but found God. He told everyone to give up their emotional pain, their hurting hearts, to God. So I did that. And tuesday did the same. Wednesday came and I was sitting in the isles, still thinking speaking in tongues was really weird. For crazy people. Still thinking Jesus wasn't God, and the trinity was a false belief. Sitting there in the aisle, the evangelist asked if anyone wanted the baptism of the Holy Spirit, to come up to the altar. I had no idea what it was, so I assumed I probably already had it, although I wasn't sure, because I had no idea what it was. I stayed in my seat.

Then the evangelist said, "There is someone still here that is suppose to be up here." and he said that if anyone needs him to walk with to the altar with them, to just raise their hands. I was the only one who raised their hand. I needed an evangelist to help me go to an altar. So the evangelist came and said, "Come on!!! I'll come with you!!!" and he led me up there. I began to pray to God with all I had, giving up my entire heart to Him, and I told Him that He can have all of me. I felt hundreds of hands on me, I was loved by others praying for me. Then the Holy Spirit came to me and said, "You have to believe in the Trinity. Jesus is Lord." and I didn't want to, and I said I don't believe that. He said Jesus is Lord, and then I surrendered to Him and said "Yes, Jesus is God. My Lord and My God!" and the evangelist put his hands on me, and the moment he did the Holy Spirit came upon me with Power and I started speaking in tongues. My heart was completely renewed, God gave me a new heart, completely healed, I no longer had the hypersensitive broken and torn heart, because I gave it up to God, and He gave me a brand new one. A brand new everything.

From that day on, I had a boldness where before I was shy. Before I couldn't speak infront of a class, but then I was ready to speak infront of thousands upon thousands without any fear. Later my mom entered my room and said, "God wants you to read this." and gave me a book, Good Morning Holy Spirit, by Benny Hinn. I learned about the Holy Spirit. I read the book in one or day nights, devouring it alive. From then on, I began talking to the Holy Spirit and spending time with Him.

I went into a radical change in my life. I threw out my TV, my computer [which was my life], everything I owned except my bed and a lamp. The only thing in my entire room was a bed, a small lamp, the Bible, and a few books.

I stayed like this for about 2 years, doing nothing but prayer.

I'd wake up, pray, go to school, pray, leave school, and pray until I went to sleep. I spent all my free time in the Presence of God. Learning, chilling, hanging out, feeling, etc.

I'd get off school at 3pm and spend time with God until midnight-3am every single night. The only time I wasn't spending time with God in His Presence, worshipping, praying, hanging out, talking, or feeling Him, I was at Church helping to set up or at school spreading the Gospel.

Out of my entire 2 years of going to that youth group, I only missed 2 wednesday services, and those were because I was forced to go to Iowa with my family.
Never missed a single wednesday service, youth rally, youth camp, or ANYTHING we did. Every wednesday I'd get home from school, go to the church, work until service at 7pm, then stay and work until 9pm cleaning up and tearing down the equipment and spending time with everyone. I also went to Sunday church every single sunday. I became an intern youth pastor for more than a year. I practically became the assistant youth pastor, more than just an intern. They layed me off (stopped paying me and said I wasn't an intern anymore) after 3 months in the summer, but I ignored the fact I wasn't getting paid anymore and did the exact same thing I always did, worked just as hard, and devoted myself fully to the church. Everyone loved me in the church because of how much God's Presence rubbed off on me during my intimate times with Him. The old people and adults in sunday church knew me incredibly well and absolutely adored me. The youth was obsessed with me. What they thought was me. It was actually ALL God. People praise me, but they don't realize that everything good about me is solely God, and only God is good.

I already had read the Bible A LOT before the Holy Spirit came into my life, and I read the Bible a ton more. I know it pretty well. I believe the Bible is the very Word of God, but only the Holy Spirit can interpret it. So you can't read it yourself, but must spend time alone with the Holy Spirit (not necessarily alone, you can do it in a group, but preferably alone to be more intimate) to understand it. Afterall, the only person that can read God's Word is God Himself. Only God knows what God means about what God wrote.

I never missed a service because I was so grateful that God had given me friends and I sought God with all of my heart at every single service. Every youth rally, every wednesday night, almost every sunday morning, I'd be there running after God, a lot of the time at the altar for the sole reason of wanting more of God. After youth camp I jumped around so much in worship that I had blisters on every one of my toes and was covered in sweat, LOL. 2 years after I went to that church, God told me to leave to go to another church. This was shortly ago. I was rather heartbroken and still miss the place. I practically lived there.

I studied intensly and read books by Benny Hinn and Smith Wigglesworth, and I listened to sermons by Todd Bentley for hours. I'd read entire books in one or two nights. I read the Bible constantly, and had worship music going for hours. I'd spend 3, 5, 8, 12 hours with God each day, all alone, just me and Him. Depending on the day, if there was school, church, or hanging out with friends.

That season of my life casually came to a change later when I entered into college. I learned to "pray continuously" and I am always, constantly, talking to God- Holy Spirit, Jesus, or Father. Not a day goes by that I don't say something to God and try to listen for Him. Although recently He has been rather quiet, I am learning a lot. Every day of my life I've been changed. God told me that the season in my life of living radical [not having anything in my room but the Bible, a stereo for worship music, and books about God, my bed and a lamp] was over and that God wanted me to be with Him in all things. He wanted me to know Him and spend time with Him in everything I did, whether it's tv, computer, games, going out to the movies, or whatever.

I have changed from a low self-esteem, shy, self-righteous, pharisee, emotionally-hurt, hypersensitive, heartbroken, unloved, uncared for individiual to someone with high self-esteem, incredibly outgoing and friendly, knowing I'm a sinner [as opposed to thinking I don't sin], hating religion but loving relationship, emotionally-strong, incredibly healthy psychologically, healed heart, loved by God, cared forby God, child and soldier in the Army of the Living God.

I've encountered countless of amazing things God has done for me and others. God has answered every single prayer I've ever prayed, except for a few which He is fulfilling right now as we speak.

Everything from "I want to be with these specific people for my birthday." to "I want to dress nice" to "Please, heal this person."

I know I'm still rather arrogant, but nowhere near as much as I used to be. I also know I am not the only one with the truth. There are MANY others who have the truth. And many others who believe in an intimate and personal God. Also some others who know God thousands of times more than I know God. More intimate with Him than I am, BY FAR. They are great men/women of God, and there are some out there. If you want to count by number, it would be a lot, but compared to population of the world [billions] it would be nearly none, LOL. Even 1 million is really really insignificant compared to 7 billion. But I'm sure there's plenty more than just 1 million. But a million is still a lot.

So yea, that's about me. Pretty much my life story.

 

[RonnyRulz]

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
(Deuteronomy 34:10, KJV)

Jesus?

though I wouldn't consider it to be that of an intimate lover.

Then do you truly know Him intimately?
To know Him more intimately than that of an intimate lover- now THAT'S intimacy! LOL.

 

[intricatic]

Jesus?



Then do you truly know Him intimately?
To know Him more intimately than that of an intimate lover- now THAT'S intimacy! LOL.

Absolutely on both counts. But neither am I Jesus, nor did any other know God face to face outside Jesus and those He lived with in His time on Earth. Paul saw a vision of Jesus which was meant to accomplish a certain reaction in him, which it did, but this is entirely uncommon. There's very good reason to question any claim such as that. We are, after all, required to question spirits.

 

[RonnyRulz]

We are, after all, required to question spirits.

Yea and that's wise to do. Just don't be surprised when you say "I shall question these spirits" and the Holy Spirit is like "Question ME!?!?!?!??!"

LOL.

I don't care if you believe me or not. What the heck is wrong with praying to the Holy Spirit, "I want to know you more. In fact, I want to see your face."

If you never ask big my friend, you will never ask at all. (Well you will, but the point is that if you don't ask big, what you ask for will be crap compared to what you COULD ask for. Why ask so small when you can get so big?)

Ask for big things. God isn't going to be offended when you ask to see Him Face-To-Face and Person-To-Person. He won't smite you for saying, "I want to know you more than ANYONE. More than Paul, more than Peter, more than Mary, more than Elijah, more than Enoch!! More than anyone EVER!!!"

What the heck is wrong with asking that?

And if there's nothing wrong with asking that? Why would you ever have to "question the spirits"? If you pray any of that, I got what I wanted you to have, prayer to know God more. I don't care if you believe me or not, I just care if you seek God more or not.

 

[intricatic]

Yea and that's wise to do. Just don't be surprised when you say "I shall question these spirits" and the Holy Spirit is like "Question ME!?!?!?!??!"

LOL.

I don't care if you believe me or not. What the heck is wrong with praying to the Holy Spirit, "I want to know you more. In fact, I want to see your face."

If you never ask big my friend, you will never ask at all. (Well you will, but the point is that if you don't ask big, what you ask for will be crap compared to what you COULD ask for. Why ask so small when you can get so big?)

Ask for big things. God isn't going to be offended when you ask to see Him Face-To-Face and Person-To-Person. He won't smite you for saying, "I want to know you more than ANYONE. More than Paul, more than Peter, more than Mary, more than Elijah, more than Enoch!! More than anyone EVER!!!"

What the heck is wrong with asking that?

And if there's nothing wrong with asking that? Why would you ever have to "question the spirits"? If you pray any of that, I got what I wanted you to have, prayer to know God more. I don't care if you believe me or not, I just care if you seek God more or not.

I remember a quote from a while back that was actually directed at a politician. It was something like 'Ask not what your government can do for you, but what you can do for your government..."

You find this message mirrored back in scripture, but not regarding government.

Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
(Matthew 15:28, KJV)

I'm sure you've read this story. The woman who came before Christ had no need of proof, she had no need to know whether God Himself was really in the flesh standing before her because she knew full-well that there was no hope outside the reputation that Christ had established at healing the sick. She didn't ask to see evidence first, she didn't ask to know any certainty because certainty was irrelevant to her need. If Christ could not heal her daughter, then her daughter would die. If He could, though...

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
(Matthew 4:7, KJV)

I'm sure you also remember this story. Christ's retort to Satan's asking for proof, for some sign that He really was the Christ, yet Satan knew full-well that He was. Do we not know full-well that Jesus is the Christ by the answers we receive in prayer, and the scriptures that speak of Him? Should we come before Him with our wants and desires alone to satisfy proof, or should our proof be in the fulfillment of the desperate needs we have for forgiveness, for salvation? Is our calling to imitate Christ by giving to others what they want, or what they need?

What is it that you need to believe?

 

[chris777]

Do you believe the bible is the uncorrupted word of God?

Some of what you are speaking of in your own experience is very familiar.

Some is not.

There was a time, I allowed myself to be lead around by a spirit, this was before I became a christian. I had been doing research into writing a new "fiction" and I had gathered several different books on mythology, and comparative religion, and all that jazz. My bible that my grandparents had given me as a child, which had remained closed since basically that time, had a quiet un assuming place in the background.
I was in severe pain, nearly too weak to stand, and I felt a presence, and saw a translucent image of 3 spirits, they were all shimmering, figures, the closest comparison, would be the spirits in that robin williams movie what dreams may come.
At first I thought they might have been the spirits of my dead grandparnets, as the did not speak, nor have any distinct features, I am unsure.I tried exercize, as all the doctors raved on it being a cure all. And during my walks in the woods something came to me, and started to teach me, it was trying to tell me that all religions had fragments of the truth that had been buried under the precepts tham men had imposed on them, and that the "truth" could be discerned.
By filtering out the bad. I also had a spirit, that came, to me, and said
"jesus saves" it was wrapped in dusty shredded cloth, much like the steriotypical mummy, but looser, more like saccloth, I could not see its face or features at all. the spirit in th ewoods continued to instruct me, and i ate it up. I took hundreds, if not thousands of pages of notes , it was as if it were dictating to me. I have read that the muscian santanna receives his music from an "angel"
I don't know what to cal the thing that came to me, but I do now that all during this time, my quiet, plain, un assuming , bible just stat there closed, in the background. eventually I picked it up to continue my research, and read all sorts of things in it with which I disagreed. and as it had done before the spirit attempted to convince me, that the scripture had been corrupted by man for his own benefit, and that while it still contained truth, that truth had to be strained out from the lies.

One day, I was walking out in my front yard, and I felt something a prescence, it was not of love, or comfort, or anything Good, it was vile, rage, and hatred it was as if it wanted to both destroy, and torture me simultaneously. It terrified me, it was something I had never encountered before. I stopped everything for a couple of days.
I dont remember when, or why, i even did it, but I picked up my bible. Up until the rageful thing confronted me, I had become at peace, with a great meny things, as I bought into the whole reincarnation/recycle deal up until that point.I read my bible, along with many of its verses that I thought preposterous at the time, and slowly began to believe more, and more of it, it was scary at first, it was as if i picked up this book that was thousands of years old, and I was reading in its pages things I saw every day around me. A book written nearly 2000 years before I was born. I read many verses that cut me to my very core.
one of which was to test all spirits to see if they were of God.
I had noticed from my reading the bible was markedly different than the myths and other religions I read about. The so called similarities I thought I had seen, realy werent that similar after all. I also noticed that most of what my "teacher" had taught me, had nothing to do with Gods, Word. I also noticed something else, the "spirit" was GONE

 

[Blank123]

What does the Bible have anything to do with my experiences? I'm not trying to convince you to believe anything. All I'm doing is saying my experience and telling you that the same can happen to you. I don't care if you believe or not, it's your choice.

It's not like I'm saying, "You must believe me when I say I know Jesus." All I care about is if you try and know Him yourself or not.

What can possibly be unbiblical or wrong about saying, "Seek God like you would a friend. Talk to Him. Hang out with Him. Speak to Him, say "Hey God, what's up?"

I don't need a bible to support the concept of knowing God as a friend. People can deny that's possible all they want, and they can quote scripture all they want about how we can't see God face to face, but I'm just here to say it's possible.

I don't need to quote the Bible in telling people it's possible to see God face to face, person to person, friend to friend. That's common sense. Anyone that knows anything about the Bible knows that's possible.

I really don't care if you believe me that Jesus is visible to me or not. That's irrelevant. I only said that because someone asked me a question. I wasn't the one who began to tell about that, I was asked. I gave an answer to a question, not a statement from thin air to convince you to believe me.

I really don't care if you believe me or not, as long as you seek God yourself. What's wrong with praying to have the same thing other's claim, if what they claim is very big if true? Seek and you will find. Ask and receive. What's wrong with asking God, "I want to see your Face."?

because thats not the Biblical picture we have of Him. Take a read through the OT, people were actually killed for not revering Him and fearing Him as they should have, quite a far cry from this loose carefree God you're presenting to us. So tell me why, Biblically speaking, I should believe that you have been speaking with God? or a better question might be... How do you know you're talking with God? What, Biblically speaking allows you to believe this spirit is God?

 

[Blank123]

Yea and that's wise to do. Just don't be surprised when you say "I shall question these spirits" and the Holy Spirit is like "Question ME!?!?!?!??!"

if its really the Holy Spirit he wouldn't do that, He would encourage the testing of the spirits:

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. - 1 John 4:1

 

[RonnyRulz]

if its really the Holy Spirit he wouldn't do that, He would encourage the testing of the spirits:

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. - 1 John 4:1

-_-

I was joking.

 

[Blank123]

-_-

I was joking.

just trying to make sure the point isn't overlooked but you haven't answered my question above on testing the spirits anyways. How do you know this spirit that appears to you is God?

 

[RonnyRulz]

just trying to make sure the point isn't overlooked but you haven't answered my question above on testing the spirits anyways. How do you know this spirit that appears to you is God?

Yea, because I don't care anymore, lol. A lot of people asked a lot of questions.

Like I said, I'm not here to prove myself, I don't have to. I said what I said, and if people want to pray, "Holy Spirit, I want to know you more, closer than a lover." then mission accomplished. If they think it's wrong to pray that, they miss out.

Either way I'm livin' it up with the Holy Ghost.

Holy Ghost party now! *beatbox* WOOOO! *dances with confetti everywhere and baloons*

 

[Blank123]

Yea, because I don't care anymore, lol. A lot of people asked a lot of questions.

Like I said, I'm not here to prove myself, I don't have to. I said what I said, and if people want to pray, "Holy Spirit, I want to know you more, closer than a lover." then mission accomplished. If they think it's wrong to pray that, they miss out.

Either way I'm livin' it up with the Holy Ghost.

Holy Ghost party now! *beatbox* WOOOO! *dances with confetti everywhere and baloons*

Asking questions is how people have dialogue and resolve issues, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think anyone here is trying to get you to prove anything to us but the truth. If what you're saying is truth, i don't see why it should be so hard to show some sort of Biblical backup. God doesn't contradict His word afterall and His character never changes

[bible]Hebrews 13:8[/bible]

so, with this truth in mind, there should be some kind of evidence that this spirit you're talking to is the same God depicted in the Bible. All I'm asking for is to see some Biblical back up. You said earlier that you desired that we all would worship God the same way that you do, so here's how you reach us to worship in the same way; dig into the Bible and show us from Scripture that this is what God wants. Don't just run away though because you think we're ganging up on you or something, because thats not what this is. I love truth, as i believe the other posters in this thread do, so if this spirit is truth and if what you're saying about God's character is truth, show us the evidence.

 

[Nadiine]

if its really the Holy Spirit he wouldn't do that, He would encourage the testing of the spirits:

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. - 1 John 4:1

I can't rep u again yet,

If it IS God's Spirit, IT WILL WELCOME A SERIOUS GRILLING from us! amen. Just like Paul did with the Bereans in Acts.

GIVE IT A POLYGRAPH test under hot lights that lasts an hour long! lol I WOULD! How long is 1 hour to God?
Make it say & admit things you KNOW a demonic spirit wouldnt. Don't just ask trivia questions that anyone who reads a bible could answer, like: "Who was David's son"?
Make it admit Jesus Christ is LORD, make it GLORIFY Jesus Christ specifically.. etc.

Ronny -- I read your verses where God spoke "face to face" w/ a few men... BUT: when God [or His angels] made visititations-visions/dreams, they were not continual or repedative, and they were always for a specific PURPOSE/MISSION that was ahead.

He wasn't doing visitations just to "hang out" & make His followers feel groovy & socialize.
God had a mission & purpose He was directly giving them, and when he or the angel left, THAT WAS IT; He wasn't routinely coming back - & the task He gave them (or new truth) was to be accomplished and/or used in their ministry. (ie. Peter's dream about unclean meat was to get him to work with Paul & accept Gentiles as God's own - to stop showing partiality as the NT church began).

He sent Moses to Egypt to free the Israelites, He came to convert Paul & send him to the Gentiles, He gave Daniel the prophecies, He sent Gideon to battle... etc etc. He sent Isaiah to warn Israel..same with Ezekiel.
These were NOT friendly little campfires to sit with God & feel loved.

Ronny, Please look back thru your bible & notice the missions that came with the visitation-vision/dream. And that they were BRIEF encounters; not continual.

***ps. due to a kind person's request, I'm trying not to use alot of colors/emphasis - so if this has mistakes i'm sorry, I'm trying to proofread my typing which is hard for me if it isn't split up w/ color & emphasis thru it.
I hope this is less irritating to your eyes lol