Does God invoke FEAR in anyone anymore?

[Blank123]

No they don't. God won't ever reject someone covered in the blood of Jesus. That's undeniable for all doctrines.

They have no reason to fear God will reject them.

If your God ever rejects anyone, you are serving the wrong God.
God doesn't even reject people who are going to Hell. They choose to goto Hell because they reject God. Not because God rejects them.

God came into the world to save it, not condemn it. Rejecting it condemnation. Salvation is acceptance.

God accepts to save. Men reject God to condemn themselves.

God never rejects anyone.

If you believe He does, you believe wrongly or you serve the wrong God. Blunt, but a fact.

Is the God depicted in the verses i listed in the post you're replying to the wrong God?

 

[intricatic]

God both accepts and rejects. Let's not forget the Pharisees in the Bible, and the target of many of the prophets. God specifically made known to them that He rejected them for their sins.

 

[Nadiine]

Do you even read hte Bible?

What about when in the judgement when people come before Christ and his words will be "Depart, for I did not know you". Sounds like rejection to me. Once someone dies, thats it, no more chances. Either you are a Christian or you arent, either you are going to Heaven or going to Hell. There is no other option. So He most certainly does reject people, those who reject him.

Mat 7:21-23 yes. What's disturbing about it is, it's people who THOUGHT they were His; they were casting out demons, they were doing works of God, yet, God rejects them...

It's no wonder we're told to examine ourselves whether we be in the faith!

No, God doesn't 'judge the sin' of the Believer to send us hell for it, BUT WE DO LOSE REWARD when our good works are tested by fire (1 Cor. 3 - ie. our heart/motives)... some of us will just barely make it into heaven 'as by fire'.

We'll be smoldering as we walk thru the gates... that doesn't bring me alot of comfort personally! And I cannot imagine how SAD I'd feel to see most all I did burnt up... (that's if I even made it in)...
we don't really KNOW the status we'll have when we meet God to give account of our life.

***I've been to small claims court 2 times in my past. BOTH times I was fully prepared, and had all my proof.
BUT I STILL DIDN'T KNOW HOW THE JUDGE WOULD VIEW MY CASE.

I won both cases, but did i have FEAR that I may lose? YES I did - even tho I knew my side was the truth, I was very nervous when I stood face to face with the judge who presided over my case.

Maybe that helps some? I dunno

 

[holo]

forgiving is part of loving and as the Bible says if we don't love our brothers we cannot possibly love the Lord

Yes, and still people are not only tithing and giving and praying and witnessing and reading the bible out of obligation, they even tell others to do the same! Like Paul said, if you have no love, it benefits you nothing. Not even if you give all you've got to the poor. We must stop trying to please God and instead try to get a hold of the love the bible is talking about. Or else we're trying to drive a car without an engine.

 

[holo]

EXACTLY The 2 are BOTH TRUE. Love of God IS obeying becuz we want to, we WANT TO becuz that is what the Lord REQUIRES OF US once we are reborn - when we ARE His, we don't WANT to do those the things we did before.
We obey out love, and it's called obedience becuz we are under what HE calls for us to be/do. Faith without works is DEAD.

Just like you OBEY stopping at red lights for your own safety, BUT IT'S STILL A LAW that you must; or you can get a ticket; both operate at the same time.

I understand your point, but you don't seem to understand mine. You say you "want to do it" because he requires you to. That doesn't make sense. Are you doing good works because God has commanded you to, and since you love him you want to do as he says?

That's not what the bible says! The bible talks about a new nature, a new heart, giving willingly, putting others above yourself etc. You're not putting others before yourself because you love them. You do it because you want to please God. That's why it's wrong and hopeless.

I've been saying this for 2 weeks yet it goes nowhere - as if I'm a legalist to claim we're under moral laws of God today.

But you are claiming that we are to do this or that because we're commanded to, and/or for fear of punishment. That IS law, that IS legalism. It's definitely not grace anyway!

 

[holo]

we don't really KNOW the status we'll have when we meet God to give account of our life.

***I've been to small claims court 2 times in my past. BOTH times I was fully prepared, and had all my proof.
BUT I STILL DIDN'T KNOW HOW THE JUDGE WOULD VIEW MY CASE.

This explains a lot of things. If you're actually insecure about how God sees you and whether or not he will judge or aquit you, it's no wonder you're scared and struggling and trying to live up to this and that! It's a drag, isn't it? Never knowing if you're even saved, if God will find you worthy. If you'll spend eternity in heaven or hell.

You don't have to fear, Nadiine. It is finished, you're spoken for, paid for, the punishment was laid on him before you were even born, he died for you while you were still a sinner. You don't have to try to get into heaven. He will get you to heaven, because he loves you. We're no longer servants, but children.

 

[intricatic]

"Being judged by fire" has a lot to do with daily life.

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
(Matthew 5:45, KJV)

Most people don't really like to hear that we need to do something to achieve this, but we do. That's what the sermon it's from is all about. You don't follow Christ before putting faith in Him, but you put faith in Him then pick up your cross and follow.

 

[UBERROGO]

Do you even know God?



Yea, and we choose which one right? Meaning we choose to goto Heaven or Hell, to accept Christ or not, to accept God or not.

If someone rejects God, God doesn't have to reject them. Instead, God, throughout their life, always is ready to accept their repentance to give them salvation. After that, He doesn't need to reject them, they already chose Hell.

No one chooses to be on fire for eternity. They are sent there. Noone (who is sane) chooses being on fire forever over being perfectly rich and comfortable. To say otherwise is shifting the blame.

 

[Blank123]

Yes, and still people are not only tithing and giving and praying and witnessing and reading the bible out of obligation, they even tell others to do the same! Like Paul said, if you have no love, it benefits you nothing. Not even if you give all you've got to the poor. We must stop trying to please God and instead try to get a hold of the love the bible is talking about. Or else we're trying to drive a car without an engine.

okay i can agree there, if you don't love God or people its pointless to do anything. That doesn't mean that Christians aren't obligated to do things like what you have listed above, however, love is a choice. Its not like those people are stuck doing something for no reason. If they decide and make a commitment to love God with their hearts and souls and love in truth and in action and their neighbours as themselves its no longer a burden or chore that they have to get through in order to avoid going to Hell.

 

[Nadiine]

This explains a lot of things. If you're actually insecure about how God sees you and whether or not he will judge or aquit you, it's no wonder you're scared and struggling and trying to live up to this and that! It's a drag, isn't it? Never knowing if you're even saved, if God will find you worthy. If you'll spend eternity in heaven or hell.

You don't have to fear, Nadiine. It is finished, you're spoken for, paid for, the punishment was laid on him before you were even born, he died for you while you were still a sinner. You don't have to try to get into heaven. He will get you to heaven, because he loves you. We're no longer servants, but children.

I guess you read more into it than what I was explaining - I'm not "scared" and I'm not "insecure".
I don't LIVE in fear - but I do HAVE fears; they do come up and they SHOULD come up.
We're told to examine our salvation w/ fear & trembling.

It's an eternal issue, one that requires all seriousness.
I don't take it as lightly than U do i guess.

Works don't GET US to heaven, but our works can & do show fruit of a generated or unregenerate spirit.

If Daniel who was holy fell into fear when he saw Gabriel the angel, I think I'm entitled to fear God when I see Him in His holiness on my judgment hour.

If you have a problem w/ that, fine. I dont' think it's any "casual" event.

 

[savedandhappy1]

James 1:22-25

22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[holo]

I don't take it as lightly than U do i guess.

I don't take it lightly, I just don't believe that I'm powerful enough to actually contribute to my righteousness... I would be afraid if I thought I had to trust anyone but Jesus.

Works don't GET US to heaven, but our works can & do show fruit of a generated or unregenerate spirit.

Agreed.

If Daniel who was holy fell into fear when he saw Gabriel the angel, I think I'm entitled to fear God when I see Him in His holiness on my judgment hour.

If you have a problem w/ that, fine. I dont' think it's any "casual" event.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

You have nothing to fear. If you have the Spirit in your heart that calls the Lord "Abba," now, while you're on Earth, you certainly will have nothing to fear from him when you're dead and your flesh is gone, either.

 

[RonnyRulz]

 

[Nadiine]

I don't take it lightly, I just don't believe that I'm powerful enough to actually contribute to my righteousness... I would be afraid if I thought I had to trust anyone but Jesus.

Agreed.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

You have nothing to fear. If you have the Spirit in your heart that calls the Lord "Abba," now, while you're on Earth, you certainly will have nothing to fear from him when you're dead and your flesh is gone, either.

Well... this is becoming circular again - there seems to be a lack of connection on both sides and I continue to disagree w/ your positions.

Jesus said this to His "friends":

Luke 12:4-5
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.​

In context, this is NOT about mere reverance because we do not have this reverence for man, and it deals with physical harm (death/torment) to us... but to fear God instead of man who has the power to cause both deaths. The issue is God's power & authority. It's not to the lost who will be cast into hell either.​

There is a 'fear' we're to have of His capability/authority and standard of perfection.​

If you don't have that, then feel free to think yours is a 'better' relationship w/ God.
I personally think that it's impossible to even CLAIM you wouldn't feel any fear if God manifested & showed up right in front of you one day.
Any of us can make valiant claims of Bravery But real life situations hit us in the face & we DO get weak & scared. I don't even like when people claim that they'de lay down their lives for God... because UNTIL we're actually IN that situation, we really don't know what we'd do till it happens... maybe we would, maybe we'd be like Peter & cave?? ​

I like to call it humanity.​

When I read Rev. 1, if I were to see Jesus in THAT form appear before me, you bet I'd have immediate fear (till He stood me up & calmed me down).
Look at King Nebb. when the finger appeared on the Wall to write a judgment. His knees literally knocked together when he saw that.
Do we honestly think we'd be standing proud without a care in the world?
I for one wouldn't & I admit it.​

I'd encourage anyone to get a hold of RC Sproul's Series "The Holiness of God", it's a fantastic study.​

I just don't see any more point in the circular, repedative claims on the matter. Either way, in the end we answer to God for our own walks in this life - I pray I continue to grow in my own. ​

 

[chris777]

When nadiine beat me to it

Matt 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 12:4-5
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

I just don't see a suitable replacement for fear in these verses

 

[RonnyRulz]

There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18

 

[holo]

There is a 'fear' we're to have of His capability/authority and standard of perfection.

If you don't have that, then feel free to think yours is a 'better' relationship w/ God.

When I meet the Lord, I'll probably fall on my knees and/or butt in his prescence. But I really don't see why I should be afraid of him. Hasn't he already died for me while I was still a sinner? Is there any reason he should punish me after already having punished Jesus and adopted me as his son?

Yes, he demands perfection, and that's why we should be very afraid if we're not 100% righteous. And we ARE 100% righteous, because of Jesus. But it's no wonder you'll be afraid if you think you're not.

Also keep in mind that Jesus said those things you quote to jews living before the new covenant, people who actually thought they could please God with their works etc.

You don't need to be more scared of the Lord than of your own earthly father. In fact, there's a greater chance your earthly father will condemn you than that God will. There is no condemnation for you, and therefore no reason to fear. Fear has to do with punishment, and the punishment was laid on Christ.

 

[intricatic]

There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18

What is fear according to the original language, again?

5401 phobos fob'-os
from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear); alarm or fright:--be
afraid, + exceedingly, fear, terror.

We've no reason to be terrified of God. We've reason to be struck with awe and fear, to realize our own unworthiness.

Be afflicted*, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble** yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
(James 4:9-10, KJV)

5003* talaiporeo tal-ahee-po-reh'-o
from 5005; to be wretched, i.e. realize one's own misery:--be afflicted.

5013** tapeinoo tap-i-no'-o
from 5011; to depress; figuratively, to humiliate (in condition or heart):--abase, bring low, humble (self).

 

[Blank123]

There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28

the doctrine isn't going to change no matter how much you post the verse from 1 John, both are equally Biblical ideas

The difference is 1 John refers to if we have been made perfect in love and we abide in Christ we have nothing to fear because God's wrath no longer rests in us, we know where we're going. But should we not abide in Christ what's going to happen to us? If we fail to live according to the standards and requiements listed out for us in Scripture what will happen to us?

look at the context of Matthew. Christ speaks of the persecutions that are coming and tells us not to fear because God love us and is in control, we're exhorted instead to fear the Lord who is more powerful and able to kill not only the physical body but also send us to Hell. This then is followed by a further exhortation and warning...


32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. 34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. 40 “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41 He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42 And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.”- Matthew 10:32-42<--- live according to His standards or be rejected. sounds like something to fear to me

 

[Nadiine]

There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in God. 1 John 4:18

[again] That's a misquote, the verse reads "Love" not "God". While God is love, LOVE ISN'T THE DEFINITION OF GOD. Love is one of His many attributes.
Just as, God is Spirit, God is just, God is merciful, God is truth, God is peace (He is our peace), God is the Way, God is holy. "Holy is God" Is. 6.

The context of 1 john 4 is the maturing of love - perfect means to be complete in something. Being complete in love casts out fear of retribution/punishment.

Again, we use ALL the scriptures combined to teach the truth of God, NOT CHERRY PICK 1 OR 2 to create our own doctrines.
There are other verses that show us the whole picture:

YOU ARE TO FEAR GOD, but not LIVE IN FEAR OF HIM.​

If saved, you do not need to live in a chronic state of petrified fear of God, becuz you ARE His and you are forgiven upon repentance.
The penalty of death is PAID for you, you have peace with God thru HIS righteousness over you.

You guys seem to think that we're telling you to sit in a corner shaking like a leaf when you think about God ? That's not it.
The call for [a healthy] fear of God is to keep us reverant & accountable (knowing that He is also our Father who is JUST & disciplines us) so we don't get too casual with God as if he's our equal.

It does teach us to keep a healthy fear of His power/authority/capabilities - ie. don't forget who GOD is.
Rev. 3 "those whom i LOVE I rebuke and chasten, so be zealous and repent".​