Does God Hate the Reprobate?
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Not likely in the sense that he is fond of them.
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
But definitely in the sense of...
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
But definitely in the sense of...
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
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You must have looked rather throughly. I looked at the post at the link, and it was merely a Calvinist appealing to the brethren to hear him out and that we are more alike than different. This is my contention as well.
Although this thread is not Anti-Arminian or Anti-moderate Calvinism, look at the very title of this thread:
God hates...
Sound like a mild version of Westboro? Not talking about what God hates, but it seems important to some to talk about who God hates.
Here's another version of it, on Semper Reformanda. Anyone considering 5-point Calvinism should look at this thread, so they know where this road leads before they go so far down it that they can't get back...
http://www.christianforums.com/t7617497/
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student ad x
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Yeh, I hated having to link it, quoting it just wasn't enough, somethin' like context for the gut.
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ashout
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I got in this debate a little late, so i wasn't able to read all the posts. but here's my two cents: GOD HATES THE REPROBATE WITH ALL HIS HEART.
BUT the reprobate is his enemy, and you know what he commanded his children right? to love their enemy's! God does the same!
so GOD ALSO LOVES THE REPROBATE WITH ALL HIS HEART.
what will happen is, the reprobate will go to Hell becuase God hates him, and God will hatefully torment the reprobate while he's there, but he also loves the reprobate so he gives him good things while he's on earth. surely you've noticed evil men with wives, children, money, saftey, never harmed a day in there life. some of them even have some earthly power political or otherwise. these are all gifts that God bestows apon the wicked out of his love for them. ...but in Hell, things are different. God shows his hate for the reprobate.
BUT the reprobate is his enemy, and you know what he commanded his children right? to love their enemy's! God does the same!
so GOD ALSO LOVES THE REPROBATE WITH ALL HIS HEART.
what will happen is, the reprobate will go to Hell becuase God hates him, and God will hatefully torment the reprobate while he's there, but he also loves the reprobate so he gives him good things while he's on earth. surely you've noticed evil men with wives, children, money, saftey, never harmed a day in there life. some of them even have some earthly power political or otherwise. these are all gifts that God bestows apon the wicked out of his love for them. ...but in Hell, things are different. God shows his hate for the reprobate.
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Couldn't miss this part:
"The scriptures speak of an hatred of some persons antecedent to sin"
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Hupomone10 said:
The thread was started by someone asking the opinion of Calvinists. He wasn't making an argument.
ETA. My bad. We are talking about different threads.
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But again to CLARIFY. Calvinism isn't a closed system. There is room for debate.
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Not to be insulting, but I did go over a few of the anti-Calvin threads over there and the thing I noticed was it was the same posters and honestly, they did not seem very educated. I'm not a Calvinist, nor am I against it. That was just my outsider opinion of that forum. I think we have better posters here on both sides
But the link you posted was a very good post!
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Really? cause pretty much anytime I have had a debate about it or anyone else for that matter you would almost think that you guys were ready to take us to the chopping block. Im at the point now that im cringing everytime I have a question about something for the fact knowing that some are going to chew me out over it or talk to me like im some ignorant scrub.
Not saying this is you Hammster because in all honesty I dont think you have ever dealt with me in such a manner.
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Robs07M6S said:
We do agree on more than we disagree. But in any theology there will be in house debates. It's not exclusive to Calvinism.
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Does anyone recognize these people?
"A judge ordered Joshua Komisarjevsky to be executed this summer for the 2007 murders of a mother and her two daughters during a brutal home invasion in Connecticut, saying on Friday that he committed a crime of "unimaginable horror."
Judge Jon Blue told Komisarjevsky, 31, that he alone was to blame for his new address on death row after the triple murders of Jennifer Hawke-Petit, 48, and her daughters Hayley Petit, 17, and Michaela Petit, 11, and beating of husband and father Dr. William Petit Jr.
"This is a terrible sentence but one you have written for yourself," Blue told Komisarjevsky in New Haven Superior Court.
"Your crime was one of unimaginable horror and sadness," the judge said. "Your fate is now in the hands of others. May God have mercy on your soul."
(from Reuters, on Connecticut killer sentenced to die for "unimaginable horror" - Yahoo! News
Some of our Christians on here could tell this judge a thing or two, that the God they know "predestined everyone's every thought and action" including this guy's actions, because he was a part of the "all things" that certain Christians on here think are included in what Paul meant when he said God "works all things after the counsel of His will". They could tell this judge that regarding this guy's actions, "Everything (is) set in stone (by this Christian God)."
It just goes to show you that man's thoughts are not God's thoughts. For I agree with this judge, that this is an unimaginable horror; but we are led to believe by certain believers on here that God did exactly that: He imagined and even predestined, directed, worked, and set in stone this horror.
Is this an appeal to emotions? You bet. If I can't reach you in the mind, I will appeal to the heart.
Follow any philosophy to the end of the road and see where it leads before believing it. "Listen, think, and discern" - Bob Burney
"A judge ordered Joshua Komisarjevsky to be executed this summer for the 2007 murders of a mother and her two daughters during a brutal home invasion in Connecticut, saying on Friday that he committed a crime of "unimaginable horror."
Judge Jon Blue told Komisarjevsky, 31, that he alone was to blame for his new address on death row after the triple murders of Jennifer Hawke-Petit, 48, and her daughters Hayley Petit, 17, and Michaela Petit, 11, and beating of husband and father Dr. William Petit Jr.
"This is a terrible sentence but one you have written for yourself," Blue told Komisarjevsky in New Haven Superior Court.
"Your crime was one of unimaginable horror and sadness," the judge said. "Your fate is now in the hands of others. May God have mercy on your soul."
(from Reuters, on Connecticut killer sentenced to die for "unimaginable horror" - Yahoo! News
Some of our Christians on here could tell this judge a thing or two, that the God they know "predestined everyone's every thought and action" including this guy's actions, because he was a part of the "all things" that certain Christians on here think are included in what Paul meant when he said God "works all things after the counsel of His will". They could tell this judge that regarding this guy's actions, "Everything (is) set in stone (by this Christian God)."
It just goes to show you that man's thoughts are not God's thoughts. For I agree with this judge, that this is an unimaginable horror; but we are led to believe by certain believers on here that God did exactly that: He imagined and even predestined, directed, worked, and set in stone this horror.
Is this an appeal to emotions? You bet. If I can't reach you in the mind, I will appeal to the heart.
Follow any philosophy to the end of the road and see where it leads before believing it. "Listen, think, and discern" - Bob Burney
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Hupomone10 said:
Wow. You've really jumped the shark. Although we've disagreed in the past, I respected your thoughtfulness. That's all gone now.
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Well I'm not a Calvinist, but I do find some logic in some of their views, the total depravity view I agree with.
Does that mean we are all equally depraved? No, some more then others, but we are all incline to sin, incline to do evil, incline to reject god, inclined to follow our own lust and ways.
This is not to say that God Predestined that man to kill that family! God Predestined a way to save some people like that man.
This is so close to the argument of why does God allow any bad things to happen.
Also there is the insanity card. Some people on top of being born depraved are also insane!
God is not the author of evil!
My heart goes out to the slain family!
Does that mean we are all equally depraved? No, some more then others, but we are all incline to sin, incline to do evil, incline to reject god, inclined to follow our own lust and ways.
This is not to say that God Predestined that man to kill that family! God Predestined a way to save some people like that man.
This is so close to the argument of why does God allow any bad things to happen.
Also there is the insanity card. Some people on top of being born depraved are also insane!
God is not the author of evil!
My heart goes out to the slain family!
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Thoughtfulness?
That's a good one! I respect you 2, but please read the article and think about it, instead of trying to make me feel bad for posting and commenting on a position that you should be embarrassed for even giving the appearance of defending. If you want thoughtfulness, see the post #54 and 44 that I cleaned up. That was because I wrote more than what was called for, and the one i was answering didn't ask for it. And if you're mad at this one, you apparently haven't seen this one, post #77
http://www.christianforums.com/t7627233-8/#post59664828
But here, when such a view of God and His purposes that is reprehensible and beneath what any Baptist or Christian should support, is presented, and then defended, don't be surprised if my posts seem not to be "thoughtful." Pictures of partial birth abortion aren't thoughtful either.
I still like you and we agree more than we disagree. Sorry you're offended.
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Skala
I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him
Did God know, from eternity past, before He created, that this crime would eventually happen?
Yes he did.
Therefore, it couldn't have not happened, or else God's prior knowledge of it would be wrong.
If you want to talk about following things to their logical or philosophical conclusion, why don't you actually do it, Hupo?
The minute God created the universe, that horrible crime was determined to happen. There's no way around it.
Your only escape is to embrace open theism.
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