Does creation get born again?

Saint Steven

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:scratch::scratch::scratch:



And it never occurred to you that was done on purpose?

:doh::doh::doh:
No. you write like that all the time.
You may have misspelled Nazi on purpose, but what about the other four?

Saint Steven said:
LOL - You're killing me here. Oh, my.
I can't believe you misspelled Nazi. (not to mention you're, straight, grammar and misspelling) - lol
I thought you were a writer. ???

The Righterzpen said:
See where false doctrine leads you? Strait to legalism for now your.... becoming a grammer and mispelling Notzie.
 
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nolidad

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Let me see if I understand you correctly.

Jesus came to save us from hell.
If we don't believe that, Jesus will send us to hell.
Therefore Jesus came to save us from Jesus.
Is that what you are saying?

What's wrong with this picture?

Boy are you confused. whether intentionally or ignorantly is beyond my pay grade.

Already showed that those reject christ go to eternal punishment. Unless those who receive eternal life do not have eternal life (aionios is both).

And yes if a person dies not believing in the death and bodily resurrection of Jesus- they are lost.- for all eternity.

You have to show that there is repentance after death and repentance in the lake of fire.

Scripture as written denies that hypothesis.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Yes Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.

For he removed any other way to obtain salvation other than faith in His death and Resurrection.
 
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nolidad

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You are the one who believes that the atonement is limited. We believe it was for all.
How does that equate to "not necessary"? (quoting your words)

YOu are correct in saying the atonement was for all! But only those who exercise faith in that atonement receive the benefit of it!

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

If you don't call on him- you don't have the atonement appropriated to your account
 
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Saint Steven

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Already showed that those reject christ go to eternal punishment.
That seems to confirm what I am saying.
Does God/Jesus administer the punishment?

Sounds like the Mafia. Pay them for protection, or they will hurt you.
Is that a fitting metaphor for the love of God?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Saint Steven said:
Let me see if I understand you correctly.

Jesus came to save us from hell.
If we don't believe that, Jesus will send us to hell.
Therefore Jesus came to save us from Jesus.
Is that what you are saying?

What's wrong with this picture?
 
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Saint Steven

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YOu are correct in saying the atonement was for all!
Very good. There may be hope for you yet.

Here are a few more scriptures to consider.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved
and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Luke 3:6
And all people will see God’s salvation.’”

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
 
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The Righterzpen

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What good would that do?

What good would it do to actually answer out of the Scripture? LOL

Do you actually believe these scriptures?

How about the Scriptures I've quoted to you about damnation being eternal? Why don't you believe those?

And as far as these verses you've quoted. We've been through them already on many past conversations. Do you need me to repost the explanations that have already been given? I can do that if need be; but I will tell you now. The answers I've given previously aren't going to change.

No. you write like that all the time.
You may have misspelled Nazi on purpose, but what about the other four?

Whhen everrr youu typeee on this forum and you misssspeelllll words; little red lines form under what you've misspelled. (You ever notice that?)

Sew what makes you think I wood not have noticed mispelllled words; or note-test substitutions four words that are knot grammatically correct?

Your correct that sometimes I do make mistakes; but you're misrepresenting that I do this alllllll the time.

That seems to confirm what I am saying.
Does God/Jesus administer the punishment?

Sounds like the Mafia. Pay them for protection, or they will hurt you.
Is that a fitting metaphor for the love of God?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Saint Steven said:
Let me see if I understand you correctly.

Jesus came to save us from hell.
If we don't believe that, Jesus will send us to hell.
Therefore Jesus came to save us from Jesus.
Is that what you are saying?

What's wrong with this picture?

(Do you remember this conversation now?)

Again, you judge God for His sovereign determinate to pass judgement on sinful men. Argue the wrath of God with Christ who actually experienced it! Christ who is the only one to have ever lived who shouldn't have experienced the wrath of God. If God spared not His own son from the experience; what makes you think He's going to spare unrepentant sinners? What makes you think He should spare unrepentant sinners?

Romans 9:

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

The real crux of the matter is; are you going to believe the Scripture and repent of your railings against God or are you not? Because the real issue here is that you find fault with God because you don't believe eternal damnation is fair. Who are you as a sinner to determine what God decides?

Remember, truth be told about "damnationism"; it doesn't matter if you're right, it only mattes if I'm right.
 
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The Righterzpen

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1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.


I already explained this one multiple times. Of all who would be atoned for; Christ is the only one who will atone for them. (The buyer of the stoves example.) Just because He is the payment for sin (which is what propitiation means) does not mean He paid for all sin. (He didn't purchase "every stove on the market".)

We know this because the Scripture further defines who are atoned for. (The elect.) This is why we are to interpret it by comparing it to itself. God penned the Scripture in such a way that the slothful get caught on such things because Christ is a "stumbling block" to the "Jews" (religious people).


Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

You are suppose to be like the Bereans; (those who search the Scriptures to see if these things are so).

Proverbs 18:13
He that answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame unto him.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


Now what is the context of this verse? Prior to this verse; Paul is speaking of those Jews who are "broken off" because they are in a state of unbelief. He speaks of the possibility that they could be grafted back in; if they are elect, they will come to faith. But as they stand in their disobedience now they are "broken off".

So if you look really carefully at this passage; it's not actually speaking of universal sin as in "In Adam all die..." It is speaking of those whom God has elected being chosen, yet not based on a genetic lineage. The Jew is just as guilty of sin as the gentile, even though he is the recipient of the Old Testament Scripture (as "touching the election for the sake of the fathers / patriarchs"). So this Scripture is declaring that the Jew is on equal footing with every other "kindred, tribe, tongue and nation"; although acknowledging that the Jew has received more revelation than any other "kindred, tribe tongue and nation". The unbelieving Jew "touches the elect" because that revelation given was actually revealed for the benefit of the elect; since because "the elect" are elect, they are the only one's who will respond to that revelation.

Now in this verse the definitive article is in front of the "all". "All of the some of the parts" is now all "had mercy upon". The greater context of this passage speaks of how the gospel goes now to the gentiles. So the revelation of written Scripture is no longer confined to just the Jew. Something has changed.

Paul is the disseminator of the "dispensation of times". He is the new "house steward" of the gospel; being the "apostle to the uncircumcision". Peter is the "apostle to the circumcision". One of the things the death of Christ established is that these two groups would be reconciled as "one body" by His sacrifice. They are no longer separate but one; this is the "tearing down of the middle wall of partition" between them.

Also, "all have mercy upon" does not automatically equate to "all have been atoned for". The "mercy" this passages speaks to is the dissemination of the revelation of Scripture to the "all" of humanity. That "mercy" is defined in terms of the fulfillment of the covenant. Christ fulfilled what had been given to the Jew; so now revealed Scripture is given to "the all".

Cognate: 1653 eleéō – to show mercy as God defines it, i.e. as it accords with His truth (covenant) which expresses "God's covenant-loyalty-mercy" (i.e. acting only on His terms). See 1656 (eleos).

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.


19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

"all" Strong's #3956
3956 páseach, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24).

3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts.

[When 3956 (pás) modifies a word with the definite article it has "extensive-intensive" force – and istraightforward intensive when the Greek definite article is lacking.]

There's no definitive article stressing the "all" in this verse.

The "sum of the parts" of humanity is "every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation". God has elected individuals from "every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation"; that's what ".... justification and life for all people" means.

"People" in this verse is "anthorpos" which is collective humanity. This is where we get our term "anthropology" from. (The study of humanity.)

Again, just like John 3:16; "for God so loved the cosmos...." He did not inspire the authors to use the word "inhabitant". The same could be said for this verse. It does not say "...justification and life for all inhabitants of the earth"; which would have entailed the whole of all individuals.

The Holy Spirit is very crafty in how the Scripture is written. You need to pay attention to that or you will be in error!

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

"...all things..." Strong's # 3956 (see above verse).

The "parts" of "all things" that He came to reconcile; be they in heaven or on earth have been "made to be at peace" through His blood.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, (4) who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

"..... all people...." Strong's # 3956 (see above verse).

"anthropos" - The "parts" of all humanity. Again, the Holy Ghost did not instruct the writers to use the Greek word "world" which means "inhabitance of the earth". This verse could just as easily been written:

This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants all the inhabitance of the earth to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

The verse doesn't say that though.

Luke 3:6
And all people will see God’s salvation.

The Greek word in this passage isn't "anthropos" or "inhabitance", or "cosmos" for that matter. It's actually the word "flesh". (Strong's # 4561) "All flesh will see God's salvation. This makes contextual sense when you include the verses before it; which opens with the appearance of John the Baptist in the wilderness.

Luke 3:
Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

(2) Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

(3) And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

(4) As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

(5) Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

(6) And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

This jives with the fact that the creation is covered as part of the atonement. Thus "For God so loved the cosmos....".

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

This verses is constructed as: ".... in (the) Adam all die; so in (the) Christ all will be made alive."

The "the" in the passage is connected to "Adam" and "Christ"; not to the "all". This makes doctrinal sense in relation to the incarnation, because Christ was not a descendent of Adam. He was a descendent of Eve.

Adam bore a physical seed; which gave birth to all of humanity except Christ. When Adam sinned; all his seed (that would come to pass) died.

Where as Christ bears a spiritual seed. Which are those He "fertilizes" via the Holy Ghost. That is only possible because He paid for their sin and He paid for their sin because they had been foreordained to that election from the foundation of the world. This is why Jesus never procreated in the flesh.

So you have to keep this verse in context of regard of the "seed" of whom.

Now the "all" (still Strong's #3956) still applies to "every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation". What did that "all" inherit in their "seed giver" Adam? (Death). What do those who inherit spiritual seed from Christ get? (Quickening from the dead.) That's what the phrase "made alive" means. Those that are "made alive" are "quickened" from spiritual death.

So not only is this defined by "who's seed"; it's defined by which "death" and which "life". "All" receive physical life in Adam, as part of the natural process of "be fruitful and multiply". And thus by his sin; all also receive death.

Christ on the other hand is "picky" about where His "seed" goes. That is only to "His bride". There are those who are not "His bride". Scripture is clear about that. So, in the parabolic witness given to us in the physical world, there was only one Adam and one Eve created; whereas there were multiples of all other types of life created.
 
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Saint Steven

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And as far as these verses you've quoted. We've been through them already on many past conversations. Do you need me to repost the explanations that have already been given? I can do that if need be; but I will tell you now. The answers I've given previously aren't going to change.
We seem to be at an impasse then. Fair enough. However, I think you misunderstand the greater hope. It takes a bit of research to really understand it. And frankly, I'm still a bit new to the subject.

Christ Triumphant, by Thomas Allin
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin
 
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No the gospel message is to save people from the eternal consequence of their sin! Hello have you read Gods Word?????

Good news for all. Damnation of any is bad news for all.
The Bible says the lost are lost for all ages!

Jesus comes to seek and save the lost, and the relentless love of God won't quit until that last lost sheep is retrieved. The hound of heaven never misses.
 
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Saint Steven

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Good news for all. Damnation of any is bad news for all.


Jesus comes to seek and save the lost, and the relentless love of God won't quit until that last lost sheep is retrieved. The hound of heaven never misses.
Damnationists believe that Jesus came to save us from God.
 
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nolidad

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That seems to confirm what I am saying.
Does God/Jesus administer the punishment?

Sounds like the Mafia. Pay them for protection, or they will hurt you.
Is that a fitting metaphor for the love of God?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Saint Steven said:
Let me see if I understand you correctly.

Jesus came to save us from hell.
If we don't believe that, Jesus will send us to hell.
Therefore Jesus came to save us from Jesus.
Is that what you are saying?

What's wrong with this picture?

Well as judge they pronounce the sentence one has earned by their own deeds.

Well you can think it is like the mafia, but that is wrong headed thinking.

It is more like Jesus offering rescue to a drowning person. And all they have to do is grab the life preserver offered to them. Some reject the preserver.
 
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nolidad

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Very good. There may be hope for you yet.

Here are a few more scriptures to consider.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved
and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Luke 3:6
And all people will see God’s salvation.’”

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Well let us have a few grammar lessons:

Romans 11:32--- "may" a conditional word . Not will or must but may or might

Romans 5:18-19 verb is subjunctive which means it is only a possibility.

Col. 1:20 pas is the "all" but it has a secondary meaning of all types. Given that other verses show that not all choose life and some reject Christ- the secondary definition makes the correct sense. given the context.

1 Tim. Once again this is not a command but a desire of God.

Luke 3: All people will see-- Jesus is gods salvation and all people will see Him.

1 Cor. 15: This is a case of misapplying a verse by taking it out of its context.

Kept in its context it is referring to all people who are in Christ. not the lost and Paul clearly makes a distinction in the context of this verse.

Still waiting for one verse that shows that once one is sent to either hell or the lake of fire when eternity commences again to pay for their sins, there is an opportunity for repentance. Especially in light of Heb.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
 
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Saint Steven

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Well as judge they pronounce the sentence one has earned by their own deeds.

Well you can think it is like the mafia, but that is wrong headed thinking.

It is more like Jesus offering rescue to a drowning person. And all they have to do is grab the life preserver offered to them. Some reject the preserver.
Did you ask to be born into Adam's fallen race? To be born into condemnation before you had committed one sinful deed? Isn't the "offer of salvation" in your view to undo what has been done to us already?

To expand on your metaphor, God threw us overboard and is now tossing us a life preserver, and if we reject it we will perish, taking the blame for our lack of a proper response. The one in the water has to wonder why they were thrown overboard in the first place. And why there are thousands perishing all around them, none of them being thrown a preserver. What's wrong with this picture?

Jesus tells of the good shepherd who left the ninety-nine to go after the one. And when he finds it, throws it over his shoulders and carries it back, probably against its will, bleating complaint the whole time.
 
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nolidad

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Good news for all. Damnation of any is bad news for all.


Jesus comes to seek and save the lost, and the relentless love of God won't quit until that last lost sheep is retrieved. The hound of heaven never misses.

Well if you accepted the whole counsel of God, you would recognize that the gospel is good news for all! But not all receive the good news.

2 Corinthians 2:15
For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2 Corinthians 2:16
To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

Matthew 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

I agree with you that Jesus will not allow one sheep to be lost! But:

Matt. 25:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Not every one is a sheep.

This is Jesus' response to those on the left- the goats:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Now not getting into the theology of the works here- let us make some clear observations:

1. the never ending fire was designed for the devil and his angels- people forced their way into it by their own rebellion.

2. Despite your attempt to describe "kolasis" as mere correction, all greek scholarsw I know say it is punishment or retribution.

3. As aionios is used for both life and punishment in the same sentence- rules of grammar say they are equal! So however long life lasts, that is how long punishment lasts. Now you can think that all saved will eventually be snuffed out into non existence, but you would be just as wrong there as well.
 
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Saint Steven

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Still waiting for one verse that shows that once one is sent to either hell or the lake of fire when eternity commences again to pay for their sins, there is an opportunity for repentance. Especially in light of Heb.
Thanks for continuing the discussion. I thought you would have bowed out long ago. Kudos.
If you don't hope that the greater hope is true, you will always find space to argue against it. I can't help you there. Consider this though.

I also give you credit for giving the scriptures a hard look to see what it says. Notice the phrase "under the earth" in this Philippians 2:10. What do you suppose it means?

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).
 
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Did you ask to be born into Adam's fallen race? To be born into condemnation before you had committed one sinful deed? Isn't the "offer of salvation" in your view to undo what has been done to us already?

To expand on your metaphor, God threw us overboard and is now tossing us a life preserver, and if we reject it we will perish, taking the blame for our lack of a proper response. The one in the water has to wonder why they were thrown overboard in the first place. And why there are thousands perishing all around them, none of them being thrown a preserver. What's wrong with this picture?

Jesus tells of the good shepherd who left the ninety-nine to go after the one. And when he finds it, throws it over his shoulders and carries it back, probably against its will, bleating complaint the whole time.

So now you are accusing God of being born a sinner?

Romans 9:

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Too bad! He is god you are not! He gets to make the rules, not you! You can either get on board with the rules or pay the price!


As to your second line:

God warned Adam of the consequences and Adam chose to fall.

God is not obligated to save you or anyone! But inHis love He chooses to offer salvation and save those who accept His offer. Your whining and accusing God of unfairness doesn't change a thing!


As for the third line:

Yes Jesus rescues His sheep- not the goats. And your probably's are irrelevant.
 
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nolidad

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Thanks for continuing the discussion. I thought you would have bowed out long ago. Kudos.
If you don't hope that the greater hope is true, you will always find space to argue against it. I can't help you there. Consider this though.

I also give you credit for giving the scriptures a hard look to see what it says. Notice the phrase "under the earth" in this Philippians 2:10. What do you suppose it means?

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Under the earth? All beings- angelic and human will acknowledge Jesus as Lord! Some as saved, and the lost as being forced to recognize He is Lord! This verse is not soteriological but doxological!

1 Corinth 12:3 once again is not soteriological but defining actions of gifts.

Once again this cannot override Matt. 25:46 as this is not about salvation but the working of gifts.

Romans 14 I agree! Jesus is Lord over th e living and dead. Once again this is subjunctive mood and only means possibility.

Romans 10: Yes as long as they live- once they die

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

let us not forget the next verse:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus died for the sins of all men (thus removing any other means of salvation god would accept) but not all men accept the free gift! That is the Bible whether we like it or not, think it fair or not.
 
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mmksparbud

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Damnationists believe that Jesus came to save us from God.


God came to save us from sin. He comes back to claim His world, His people away from Satan. He comes for those who want Him---to those who have chosen His blood to cover their sins and for those, His fire can not hurt therm. For those who want Satan and refuse His blood covering, they can not be protected from His fire. It is a matter of who you prefer to give your heart to---Satan and this world or God and His world. God knows His sheep, and He will protect them and gather them together and give them eternal life with Him. Those who don't want that--He will not force to live with Him.
 
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Saint Steven

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So now you are accusing God of being born a sinner?

Romans 9:

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Too bad! He is god you are not! He gets to make the rules, not you! You can either get on board with the rules or pay the price!
You are both confirming my point and making God out to be a merciless tyrant.
 
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Saint Steven

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As to your second line:

God warned Adam of the consequences and Adam chose to fall.

God is not obligated to save you or anyone! But inHis love He chooses to offer salvation and save those who accept His offer. Your whining and accusing God of unfairness doesn't change a thing!
So you liken God to a playground bully?
 
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