Does Cain’s punishment support evolution?

[dagelos]

That's irrelevant for there is neither Israelite nor Gentile

You're next passage is a great quote mine of Paul's speech. Here is the relevant part

Paul is talking about how the Jews basically don't have a case against him because they as he does hopes for the coming Messiah, the one he believes is come in Christ.


Hey lookee it's a verse that talks about God not abandoning Israel, that's cool I don't disagree with that, but you missed this one:

Rom 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

Your argument is that Gentiles is also talking about Israel, yet here we have Paul contrasting the two

The disciples were Called Christians yet the disciples were Israelites. That's irrelevant for there is neither Israelite nor Gentile

That is NOT irrelevant.Read Acts 11:26

The Apostles were Israelites - They were then called Christians.


Paul is talking about how the Jews basically don't have a case against him because they as he does hopes for the coming Messiah, the one he believes is come in Christ.

Are you saying the Jews will expect the messiah in the future?

How does that verse even imply that?

Acts 26:6 :And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:
Acts 26:7:Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Acts 26:2 ''whereof I am accused of the Jews''
Acts 26:7 ''I am accused of the Jews''

2453. Ioudaios ee-oo-dah'-yos from 2448 (in the sense of 2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah:--Jew(-ess), of Judaea.

Judaean(Geography/National)

Jesus and the Apostles did not speak English,nor was the Bible written in English.


Romans 11:1:I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God abandoning Israel? read it carefully! ''I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid''

Romans 11:11-12:11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?


Gentiles/Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,Greek = 1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

A race as of the same habit,A Tribe,Nation,People.

 

[dagelos]

When we were debating the definition of "gentile", I pointed out that it meant non-Jew while you pointed out it meant non-Roman. Jesus was undeniably jewish, but I'm not sure whether he was a Roman citizen.

St. Paul was both a Christian and a Roman citizen. By the religious definition he was a gentile, because he was not jewish. By legal definition he was not a gentile, since he was a Roman citizen.

You asked if Jesus was a gentile according to Roman civil law. I don't know because I don't know if he was a Roman citizen.


Although fair skin is one of the main features of Europeans - that's why we're called "white people" after all - fair skin alone does not automatically make them European or white. Fair skin has always been valued, regardless of country. It suggests wealth, as they did not need to spend all day in the sun farming or working.

The Nazarites might have been Aryans. Contrary to popular belief, Aryans are not blonde-haired blue-eyes Europeans. They come from the Middle East, eastern Europe and north India.

These are genuine Aryans:

These are Scandinavians:

These days most white supremacists and nationalists believe "Nordics" (scandinavians) to be the best white people.


[EDIT] I just noted that Lamentation does not actually mention the Nazarenes. It's possibly about the Babylonians.​

Jesus was not Jewish.

Your ignoring my question,finding ways around it etc etc - read this.

Matthew 22:15-22:15 Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?” 18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”
21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.
Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.



Matthew 22:17 A special tax levied on subject peoples, not on Roman citizens






Now,you can answer the question.....




Were Jesus and the Apostles gentiles?


In civil affairs, the denomination was given to all nations who were not Romans.






Lamentations 4:7:Her Nazarites were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire:




STRONG'S DEFINITION.


SNOW.
7950 sheleg sheh'-leg from 7949; snow (probably from its whiteness):--snow(-y).

7949 shalag shaw-lag' a primitive root; properly, meaning to be white; used only as denominative from 7950; to be snow-white (with the linen clothing of the slain):--be as snow.



PURER.
2141 zakak zaw-kak' a primitive root (Compare 2135); to be transparent or clean (phys. or morally):--be (make) clean, be pure(-r).



WHITER.
6705 tsachach tsaw-khakh' a primitive root; to glare, i.e. be dazzling white:--be whiter.



MILK.
2461 chalab khaw-lawb' from the same as 2459; milk (as the richness of kine):--+ cheese, milk, sucking.

2459 cheleb kheh'-leb or cheleb {khay'-leb}; from an unused root meaning to be fat; fat, whether literally or figuratively; hence, the richest or choice part:--X best, fat(-ness), X finest, grease, marrow.



RUDDY.
119 'adam aw-dam' to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:--be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).



RUBIES.
6443 paniyn paw-neen' or paniy {paw-nee'}; from the same as 6434; probably a pearl (as round):--ruby.

6434 pen pane from an unused root meaning to turn; an angle (of a street or wall):--corner.



SAPPHIRE.
5601 cappiyr sap-peer' from 5608; a gem (perhaps used for scratching other substances), probably the sapphire:--sapphire.

5608 caphar saw-far' a primitive root; properly, to score with a mark as a tally or record, i.e. (by implication) to inscribe, and also to enumerate; intensively, to recount, i.e. celebrate:--commune, (ac-)count; declare, number, + penknife, reckon, scribe, shew forth, speak, talk, tell (out), writer.



How does the definition even describe the description of the picture you posted? i.e ''They come from the Middle East, eastern Europe and north India.''


I just noted that Lamentation does not actually mention the Nazarenes. It's possibly about the Babylonians.


''Her Nazarites''


NAZARITE.
5139 naziyr naw-zeer' or nazir {naw-zeer'}; from 5144; separate, i.e. consecrated (as prince, a Nazirite); hence (figuratively from the latter) an unpruned vine (like an unshorn Nazirite):--Nazarite (by a false alliteration with Nazareth), separate(-d), vine undressed.

5144 nazar naw-zar' a primitive root; to hold aloof, i.e. (intransitivey) abstain (from food and drink, from impurity, and even from divine worship (i.e. apostatize)); specifically, to set apart (to sacred purposes), i.e. devote:--consecrate, separate(-ing, self).




These days most white supremacists and nationalists believe "Nordics" (scandinavians) to be the best white people.


The Beauty of the European men and women is known.

 

[Keachian]

The disciples were Called Christians yet the disciples were Israelites. That's irrelevant for there is neither Israelite nor Gentile


That is NOT irrelevant.Read Acts 11:26

The Apostles were Israelites - They were then called Christians.

Read Romans 11:11-36 Gentiles, them being non-Israelites are grafted into the vine in order to become spiritual Israel.

Paul is talking about how the Jews basically don't have a case against him because they as he does hopes for the coming Messiah, the one he believes is come in Christ.

Are you saying the Jews will expect the messiah in the future?

At that time they were.

How does that verse even imply that?

Acts 26:6 :And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:
Acts 26:7:Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Um, that's what it says do you have problems reading?

Jesus and the Apostles did not speak English,nor was the Bible written in English.

So glad you understand this

Romans 11:1:I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God abandoning Israel? read it carefully! ''I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid''

Hey lookee it's a verse that talks about God not abandoning Israel, that's cool I don't disagree with that, but you missed this one:

Romans 11:11-12:11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?


Gentiles/Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,Greek = 1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

A race as of the same habit,A Tribe,Nation,People.

Paul is contrasting Israel to Gentiles, why would he do this if he were talking to the remnant of physical Israel? He even goes further:

Rom 11:17-18 "But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you."

Wouldn't the gentiles if they were descendants of physical Israel already be a part of this vine?

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Gentiles/Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,Greek = 1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

A race as of the same habit,A Tribe,Nation,People.

The ancient Greeks and Hebrews did not regard race the same way we do today. To them, "ethnos" was a term meaning people a similar (usually foreign) culture - which is why it was used interchangeably with words like "pagan", "heathen" and "gentile".

The word "Ethnicity", and indeed many of our concepts about race, didn't appear until roughly the 19th century.

Or to put it another way - if being from different tribes and being from different races are the same thing, then were the Atrebates and the Belgae different races? You should know who they were.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Jesus was not Jewish.

Been there, done that. Jesus was completely, utterly and undeniably jewish.

Lamentations 4:7:Her Nazarites were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire:
...
NAZARITE.
5139 naziyr naw-zeer' or nazir {naw-zeer'}; from 5144; separate, i.e. consecrated (as prince, a Nazirite); hence (figuratively from the latter) an unpruned vine (like an unshorn Nazirite):--Nazarite (by a false alliteration with Nazareth), separate(-d), vine undressed.

5144 nazar naw-zar' a primitive root; to hold aloof, i.e. (intransitivey) abstain (from food and drink, from impurity, and even from divine worship (i.e. apostatize)); specifically, to set apart (to sacred purposes), i.e. devote:--consecrate, separate(-ing, self).

So "Nararite" means prince. They were the people who took the vow described in Numbers 6, which is aimed at the people of Israel. Like I said earlier, not everyone with fair skin is European or white - Aryans for example.

The Beauty of the European men and women is known.

To other Europeans perhaps.

 

[Keachian]

To other Europeans perhaps.

But then only Europeans are actually human, haven't you gotten that yet from this discussion?

 

[dagelos]

The ancient Greeks and Hebrews did not regard race the same way we do today. To them, "ethnos" was a term meaning people a similar (usually foreign) culture - which is why it was used interchangeably with words like "pagan", "heathen" and "gentile".

The word "Ethnicity", and indeed many of our concepts about race, didn't appear until roughly the 19th century.

Or to put it another way - if being from different tribes and being from different races are the same thing, then were the Atrebates and the Belgae different races? You should know who they were.

You didn't answer my question - Were Jesus and the Apostles,Gentiles?

Why are you even in this debate if you can't answer a question?

Read Matthew 22:15-22 - then answer,were Jesus and the Apostles,Gentiles?

John 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.


Even Judea could be translated Ethnos,or gentile.

 

[dagelos]

Been there, done that. Jesus was completely, utterly and undeniably jewish.


So "Nararite" means prince. They were the people who took the vow described in Numbers 6, which is aimed at the people of Israel. Like I said earlier, not everyone with fair skin is European or white - Aryans for example.


To other Europeans perhaps.

Only you say Jesus was Jewish - you offer know proof.

Not everyone can show blood in the face or turn rosy,that is a characteristic of the white race only - why do you find ways around that?

 

[1an]

Only you say Jesus was Jewish - you offer know proof.

Not everyone can show blood in the face or turn rosy,that is a characteristic of the white race only - why do you find ways around that?

The (earthly) parents of Jesus were Jewish.

From the line of David. All B.I. people know that.

.

 

[Keachian]

Only you say Jesus was Jewish - you offer know proof.

Not everyone can show blood in the face or turn rosy,that is a characteristic of the white race only - why do you find ways around that?

I have had enough of your demonstrably false idea that only Europeans blush, having dated a South Indian woman I can tell you that they do blush, yes it is far more obvious in Europeans but if it is hire apparent in even Tamils then I'm pretty sure it is apparent in those of Middle Eastern complexion

 

[dagelos]

Read Romans 11:11-36 Gentiles, them being non-Israelites are grafted into the vine in order to become spiritual Israel.


At that time they were.


Um, that's what it says do you have problems reading?


So glad you understand this






Paul is contrasting Israel to Gentiles, why would he do this if he were talking to the remnant of physical Israel? He even goes further:

Rom 11:17-18 "But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you."

Wouldn't the gentiles if they were descendants of physical Israel already be a part of this vine?

Only olives could be grafted in to an olive branch - only Israel is likened to an Olive.

Jeremiah 11:16:The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

An olive branch cannot graft in Apples or pears.

There is no Spiritual Israel.

Point out Spiritual Israel in the Bible?

And without twisting Bible passages around?

Acts 26:6-7 does not even imply a future Messiah for the Jews.


Jesus came for Israel only. Not the state of Israel. - Israel.



Acts 13:23:Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:


Jesus and the Apostles did not speak English,nor was the Bible written in English.

THAT IS FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING!

Mainstream Christians cannot separate English/Modern from Thousands of years ago!


Paul is contrasting Israel to Gentiles, why would he do this if he were talking to the remnant of physical Israel? He even goes further:

Rom 11:17-18 "But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you."

Wouldn't the gentiles if they were descendants of physical Israel already be a part of this vine?

Only Israel was likened to an Olive.

You are using Gentile to mean Non-Jew when it does not mean that.

Romans 11:25-26:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


Romans was written to Israel.


Paul write ''Israelite '' Romans 11:1
''Abraham our father'' Romans 4:1
''our father Isaac'' Romans 9:10
''my kinsmen according to the flesh'' Romans 9:3
''For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel'' Romans 9:6
''God for Israel'' Romans 10:1



Blindness is that Israel do not know who they are - Not the Jews in the State of Israel,who claim their descent through Esau,they know who they are.



The Jewish Encyclopedia,1925 edition, vol. 5, p. 41, says:"Edom is in Modern Jewery."


Gentiles = 1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.



Israel dispersed.


Read Romans 11:26 ''and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:''

 

[dagelos]

The (earthly) parents of Jesus were Jewish.

From the line of David. All B.I. people know that.

.

Passages?

 

[dagelos]

I have had enough of your demonstrably false idea that only Europeans blush, having dated a South Indian woman I can tell you that they do blush, yes it is far more obvious in Europeans but if it is hire apparent in even Tamils then I'm pretty sure it is apparent in those of Middle Eastern complexion

How do non whites blush,or turn rosy when it is a Characteristic of Europeans?

 

[Keachian]

How do non whites blush,or turn rosy when it is a Characteristic of Europeans?

It's not a characteristic of Europeans, but rather as has been discovered most of the great apes iirc. It is only more noticeable in Europeans because of the sharp contrast between the two states.

 

[Keachian]

Wow you also pick out pretty much every instance where Paul talks of Spiritual Israel and say that it can only be for Physical Israel.

I am not a part of Physical Israel, there is no way for me to trace my lineage to a tribe of Israel, however that doesn't matter I am accepted by Christ as a non Israelite, grafted into Israel to share in their inheritance Praise be to the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The blessed Emmanuel who gave his life as a propitiation for the sins of the world.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Only you say Jesus was Jewish - you offer know proof.

I offer known proof. Every mainstream Christian or anyone with a basic knowledge of Christianity knows Jesus was a jew:

1. Jesus was circumcised. Luke 2:21: "On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he was conceived."

2. He celebrated the Passover: Matthew 26:17-19: "On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?” He replied, “Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, ‘The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.’ So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover." He also celebrated other jewish festivals (John 5:1).

3. He taught in the synagogues. Luke 13:10 "On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues."

4. He was referred to as "Rabbi". John 3:1-2: "Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

5. They wrote "King of the Jews" on his cross. Luke23:36-38 "The soldiers also came up and mocked him. They offered him wine vinegar and said, “If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.” There was a written notice above him, which read: THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS."

6. He was descended from both Abraham and King David. Matthew 1:1: "This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham."

7. Jesus was descended from Judah, who was the son of Jacob, grandson of Isaac and great-grandson of Abraham. Hebrews 7:14: "For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests."

8. He was born in the land of Judea. Matthew 2:1: "After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem."

9. His family was jewish. Mary and Joseph regularly went to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover (Luke 2:41) and his aunt and uncle were both very religious (Luke 2:5-6).

10. Jesus was buried as a jew. John 19:40: "Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs."
​

 

[Gozreht]

Yes Esau was a race mixer and he sorely grieved his parents by marrying into the Cananites. It tainted his Semitic bloodline.
More mixing going on.
Ashkenais are part Turkic bloodline beleived to come from Turkey and probably of the Hittite and Hurrians according to the DNA studies. Ashkenazi was from Japeth. The Kenites JEWs mixed with Ashkenazi when they converted them to Judaism.

You have referred to DNA testing a couple of times. How in the world is this accurate if there has been som many mixings of the races? I can see physical characteristics being handed down but a whole DNA separate from other human DNA?? Isn't it all different from person to person anyway? Even family members have different DNA.

Jews admit to being a mixture of everything just like Esau was and they are trying to breed the White seed (Jacob)out. Now is the time known as Jacobs trouble.

I lean more towards the end of the age for this one.

Documented in the scripture is the location of the house of Israel
1 peter 1:1 and James 1:1.
And Christ specifically told his disciples to go to the lost house of Israel and said he was sent only to the lost house of Israel.

Again, if they are lost, then how did they get this message? If Peter and James were writing to a group they didn't know the location of then who woulod have delivered it. If they knew they were in these places then they weren't apparently too lost.

Only White people have fulfilled the promises made to Abrahams about his seeds future. No group has blessed the world like the White man or Abrahams seed as promised.

I am not quite for sure where you get all of these promises. I see three; being a great nation, receiving the Promised Land, his seed in Isaac blesses the world. Sure I can see how you can fit your ideas into this theologically but there are some problems just with these three. If we belong to Christ we are "Abraham's seed". Through us, those who call upon Christ as our savior bless the world. This could be of any race. It is in Egypt that Israel becomes a nation. Once it becomes a nation, spiritually it remains a nation. You or dagelos has made the argumeny as well that jews are not as numerous as the sands, but neither is the whole human race. This is clearly a metaphoric statement, and you are talking to a man who thinks the bible is mostly literal. Exodus says Isreal became as numerous as the stars, so since there was 600,000 of them does that mean there is only 600,000 stars or 600,000 garins of sand. Probably not. This is the nation that gained the Promised land, both "house" of Israel. When the kingdom split, why did Judah's kings remain mostly loyal to God when the northern kingdom was all evil?

Let me remind you that I am not CI or BI but I do believe Christ when he said he came back only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel after ignoring the Canaanite woman several times(doesn't sound like her cared about non Israelite). But I believe he has offered salvation for all.

This makes me feel a little better about who you are. If you said that white people were the only ones saved I wouldn't even have a real conversation with you. It wouldn't bother me one but if white people were the missing tribes as long as the whole world can be still be saved. But I just can't see this. Most of the world's problems have also been caused by white people.

His mission was to renew the lost sheep and let them take the gospel to the world.
I do believe that every son of Israel shall be saved as the scripture says several times.
I am a child of true Israel and Christ is my kinsman redeemer.

All of Israel's sons, including all 12 tribes.

I do appreciate the respectful manner of your arguments.
it's the only way a brother should debate a disagreement.
Let's keep it that way. I'll return the same respect that is given..

I try this with everyone. I am not here to make fun ofanyone. I try to understand the other person, although I will let my frsutration out once in a while.

Peace be upon you as well.

 

[Gozreht]

You asked if Jesus was a gentile according to Roman civil law. I don't know because I don't know if he was a Roman citizen.

Rest assured he was not Roman. If Caesar found out the Herod killed babies that would be Roman citizens he would be dead too. If He was Roman then he would not have been tried in the Sanhedrin, ever.

 

[Gozreht]

Jesus was not Jewish.

Was he an Israelite?

Your ignoring my question,finding ways around it etc etc - read this...


Were Jesus and the Apostles gentiles?

I answered you though and you did not respond.

These days most white supremacists and nationalists believe "Nordics" (scandinavians) to be the best white people.

The Beauty of the European men and women is known.

This isn't beauty? Not only is your mind closed, but your eyes as well.

 

[Gozreht]

True Beauty...look at the gorgeous hair, his cheeks are so rosey, and oh that moustache, umm...what woman wouldn't want him?