Does a ceremony matter?

[SirKenin]

I have, as some of you are aware, always questioned the necessity of a marriage ceremony. I for one don't believe that a wedding ceremony is mandated by God. The Bible simply states that a man and a woman are to leave their fathers and/or mothers and become one flesh.

There is an official union, sanctioned by the State.

There is a ceremonial marriage, sanctioned by the Church

There is simply moving in together and consumating your union through sex.

I have recently become aware of a different type of ceremony, the Ceremony of the Roses. That also celebrates a special bond between two people, that does not depend on the sex of the two parties.

Does it really matter? Can anyone provide Biblical reference where God mandates a particular ceremony or any ceremony at all?

 

[mina]

I don't think it's the "ceremony" that makes someone married. But I do think that vows in front of witnesses is important. Just so you can't live with someone and you both think your're married and then one day one or both decide that they aren't "married". Also I think there is emotional worth in validating your commitment to someone in front of the body of Christ. Like If a man wasn't willing to stand up and exchange vows with me in front of a judge/pastor/boat captian /etc. or in front of family and the Church then I would feel he was ashamed of me or wanted to keep me a secret. So I don't have any Biblical references for this. I have known couples that lived together and said they were "married" but it usually ended badly or one or both members of the couple were always really insecure to weither they were "married" or not. I really think it's about respect of the person you love and want to share your life with. The ceremony is not about feeling the self imposed rules of man over God. Nor is it about showing off with a big gaudy expensive wedding. I don't think God mandates a ceremony or a certain type of ceremony. going through with a ceremony won't hurt anyone and it does't have to be a big expensive thing. I don't think it's something to get all worked up over. The exchanging of vows before the body of Christ is a beautiful thing. JMO

 

[Jenna]

I don't think that the type of ceremony matters, whether it is done before a minister, justice of the peace, or entails walking around a table three times. It has more to do with declaring before witnesses your committment to being wed, and making the union legally binding in whatever way is culturally relevant.

 

[Violet]

My husband and I were married through the Justice of the Peace..and we're just as married as the next married couple lol. So no, I don't believe that the type of ceremony really matters.

 

[Peter]

Off the top of my head I can think of two God blessed marriage "ceremonies" within Holy Scripture. The first is the marriage of Jacob and Rachel. The second is the marriage at Cana where Jesus was in attendance. While neither spoke of a ceremony, per se, because of our understanding of the cultural practices, we know that a ceremony of some sort took place.

The OT Jewish practices, which form the bedrock of Christianity, are very much ceremony ladden. These practices were, and are, meant to keep our lives focused. God ordained worship in the OT screams ceremony. The act of NT baptism is ceremonial, as are partaking of the Holy Mysteries.

The attitude of "no ceremony" is indicitive of a minimalist way of thinking, "what is the absolute least thing I have to do in order to...?" This attitude can be seen all through American society, fast food, quick oil changes, even Protestantism and Catholicism.

If one carries the attitude of "no ceremony" to ones marriage, then that attitude would also apply to any ceremony. No need for graduations, just mail the diplomas. No stupid happy birthday song, just give me my flippin presents already. No National Honor Society inductions, no banquets of any sort, no need to go to church, I got Jesus so that's what's important. What's up with the singing of the national anthem before a ballgame? Get real, just play ball.

True, from a Western perspective, especially a Western Protestant perspective, ceremony is a bunch of rot. So why do it? When one stops believing that anything "happens", then ceremony goes out the window. This is why so many of our Protestant churches have what amounts to a buffet for the Lord's Supper, "It's nothing but bread and juice, so why have all the useless ceremony?"

But from an Eastern Christian perspective, things do happen. Therefore ceremony is important. But unlike Western Christianity that is human centered, thus marriage vows, Eastern Christianity is God centered, thus an Eastern Christian wedding has no vows but is, in essence, a prayer meeting for the couple being united in holy matrimony. Also, unlike Western Christianity, Eastern Christianity can only work within community. A wedding becomes an extension of that community. The community must come together to pray with and for the new couple. (I guess we could just send out wedding invitations asking everyone to pray for the couple on a specific day and time.) The couple is, within Eastern Christianity's teaching, an icon of Christ's real union with His bride, the Church. Did Jesus forgive just by saying so? No. He went through a ceremony of suffering and death and most glorious resurrection.

I don't expect you to agree with my point of view. But you asked, so I responded.

Peace.

Peter

 

[DaveKerwin]

Oh God help us!

Yes it matters! Everyone acts like there were no marriage ceremonies in Jesus' time. Guess what, they were all over the place. Jesus' own parents were engaged, and later married. Hmmmmm... what do you have to say to that?

 

[Jenna]

It was just a simple, honest question, Dave.......

 

[Andry]

Peter,

Thank you for sharing that! I found it profound.

I think it wouldn't hurt for us 'modern/western' types to try and understand and appreciate 'orthodoxy' a bit more.

 

[DaveKerwin]

It was just a simple, honest question, Dave.......

Honest, most likely. Simple, no way!

I just don't understand the mentality that wants to do everything contrary to what is normal. Why push the limits? If it's about rebellion or something, get a funny tatoo or maybe skydive often, but leave marriage sacred!!

 

[Violet]

I dont understand why a marriage at the Justice of the Peace wouldn't be as sacred. Honestly, God isn't mad at my husband and I for not having a ceremony. When we were saying our vows we both felt the Holy Spirit w/us it was overwhelming. And our marriage is extremely sacred and spiritual and full of love. When we decided on getting married at the JOP...we weren't thinking about being rebellious or what have you....we just simply could not afford a wedding ceremony and reception.

 

[Archivist]

Honest, most likely. Simple, no way!

I just don't understand the mentality that wants to do everything contrary to what is normal. Why push the limits? If it's about rebellion or something, get a funny tatoo or maybe skydive often, but leave marriage sacred!!

Actually the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania still recognizes common law marriages as valid. Essentially if you live together and hold yourselves out as husband and wife then you are considered married. I think several other states also recognize this type of marriage.

BTW, this type of marriage came about as a matter of practicality, not as some sort of rebellion. When the Commonwealth was founded in the 1600's there were very few ministers and those in rural areas could go many months or even years without seeing a member of the clergy--hence the common law marriage.

BTW, have you ever been to a Quaker wedding service? There is no minister in the Quaker tradition. Everyone sits quietly until the man and woman are each moved by the Spirit to stand up and profess their love. Then they are considered married. There is no formal scripted service of any kind.

I think that it is a matter of individual choice. If it is just the couple in a room or on a beach with a minister or DJ and a couple witnesses that's fine. Frankly I think people are crazy when they spend thousands of dollars on weddings and receptions as has become so popular today.

 

[DaveKerwin]

common law is something different. What I am referring to is people who pray in their bedroom and ask God to make them married, then live as if they are. Well guess what, they are NOT!! It's just pitiful when people try to scoot around the rules. If you're gonna get married, JUST GET MARRIED. If money is a problem, save up the fifteen bucks and go to your county offices and do it there.

Being married by the court is perfectly valid, you can bring your minister and close relatives with you into the court.

Peter nailed it on the head, way to be man. Ceremony is where it's at.

 

[GirlieGirl]

If two people are going to say that they don't need a ceremony or marriage license to declare themselves to be married, then when they become involved sexually they darn well better start acting like they're married!

Part of the marriage ceremony is the open declaration that a union has been made.

When someone says brings up this idea (and I'm not referring to the OP) usually they're looking for a way to justify having sex with that person outside of marriage. Just in my experience...

 

[WolfGate]

Does it really matter? Can anyone provide Biblical reference where God mandates a particular ceremony or any ceremony at all?

No, not a verse that mandates a particular ceremony. The New Testament is filled with references to "giving in marriage" which I certainly read as some type of ceremony where the father/mother present the child to their new spouse. So, I think it is understood there would be some type of ceremony. (Mt22:30, 24:38, Mk 12:25, for example.)

Personally, I think it matters due to our humanity. A ceremony is a chance to state that we are entering marriage before God and before other people. People tend to do better at keeping promises they've made publically.

I've known couples that have justified sleeping together with "we're married in our hearts", then, when things got tough and they broke up it's been "well, it's not like we were married or anything."

There is simply moving in together and consumating your union through sex.

OK, I haven't researched what I'm about to say personally, so if someone who has studied it contradicts it, that's fine. I have heard that in the time of Moses, for example, the ceremony was just that. A woman went and starting living with her new husband; the sex started the marriage. Their society accepted if you slept together, you were husband and wife. This history is supposedly the reason why the Laws presented at the time of Moses didn't prohibit premarital sex. By definition it didn't exist. The irony (if this is true) is that some kids today use the lack of a specific prohibition in the bible of premarital sex to justify doing so. They claim the bible only prohibits sex with a married person, not premarital.

Apologies if this is a bit of a hijack.

 

[herev]

No, not a verse that mandates a particular ceremony. The New Testament is filled with references to "giving in marriage" which I certainly read as some type of ceremony where the father/mother present the child to their new spouse. So, I think it is understood there would be some type of ceremony. (Mt22:30, 24:38, Mk 12:25, for example.)

Personally, I think it matters due to our humanity. A ceremony is a chance to state that we are entering marriage before God and before other people. People tend to do better at keeping promises they've made publically.

I've known couples that have justified sleeping together with "we're married in our hearts", then, when things got tough and they broke up it's been "well, it's not like we were married or anything."

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OK, I haven't researched what I'm about to say personally, so if someone who has studied it contradicts it, that's fine. I have heard that in the time of Moses, for example, the ceremony was just that. A woman went and starting living with her new husband; the sex started the marriage. Their society accepted if you slept together, you were husband and wife. This history is supposedly the reason why the Laws presented at the time of Moses didn't prohibit premarital sex. By definition it didn't exist. The irony (if this is true) is that some kids today use the lack of a specific prohibition in the bible of premarital sex to justify doing so. They claim the bible only prohibits sex with a married person, not premarital.

Apologies if this is a bit of a hijack.

Oddly enough, the OT law of Moses did prohibit premarital sex, but only for women, go figure!

 

[SirKenin]

Somebody got their nose out of joint? lol This isn't about rebellion. This is about belief structures. Just because I don't subscribe to a certain person's point of view doesn't mean I'm rebelling. I'm not convinced that the status quo is grounded in sufficient Biblical fact preventing me from pursuing my own course of action, a course of action that is far more comfortable with me and in keeping with my research and views.

Some great points brought up. I can not see what distinguishes ceremony for the life of me. If a ceremony is mandated, then any of the three ceremonies I mentioned should do the trick. There are no guidelines stating what kind of a ceremony is suitable and which isn't.

However, I am not seeing how ceremony is mandated. There is no empirical Biblical proof of such. Even from east to west, or north to south, there is no agreed upon formula. Here in Canada common law marriages are legal, just the same as any other. I am leaning towards the Ceremony of the Roses and common law together.

Interesting info, Archivist and wolfgate Ty

 

[Jenna]

I don't mean to be critical, but if you are doing your own ceremony, how much would it put you out to be legally married in a more immediate fashion? It just seems to be a convenient way to circumvent the reality that we are supposed to be married before we have sex, not that our sexual relationship should define us as married......

 

[SirKenin]

A marriage ceremony doesn't fit into my current belief structure or fulfill our desires to be honest.

 

[Jenna]

What IS your current belief structure, that a marriage ceremony doesn't fit? I'm confused. I thought that marriage ceremonies were pretty standard across the human race, while not sharing in form, but at least in function. You don't desire to be married? Isn't that the same point in the Ceremony of the Roses? If you want to be bonded to someone for the rest of your days, why wouldn't you want to make the full commitment? It's not that I'm being flippant. It really just doesn't make sense to me. It sounds too much like folks playing at being family, while not embracing all of the responsibility that comes with it. *scratches head*

 

[SirKenin]

What IS your current belief structure, that a marriage ceremony doesn't fit? I'm confused. I thought that marriage ceremonies were pretty standard across the human race, while not sharing in form, but at least in function. You don't desire to be married? Isn't that the same point in the Ceremony of the Roses? If you want to be bonded to someone for the rest of your days, why wouldn't you want to make the full commitment? It's not that I'm being flippant. It really just doesn't make sense to me. It sounds too much like folks playing at being family, while not embracing all of the responsibility that comes with it. *scratches head*

I'm referring to a marriage in the traditional sense of the word. My primary question was whether the ceremony matters. At this time we do not want a traditional wedding, nor any little blurb in front of the Justice of the Peace. It's not about whether to make a commitment or not. A traditional marriage just doesn't interest us and I don't believe it's necessary or mandated by the Bible. It certainly isn't mandated by Canadian law.

While I acknowledge that there were a lot of ceremonies in the Bible, noone can show me where the Bible mandates them.

Therefore, I feel comfortable in proceeding the way we had planned, which more closely aligns to our belief structure. Who knows what the future holds?