Does a ceremony matter?

[SirKenin]

In this life, it's not about YOUR preferences, it is about obedience to God. I do not see anything you are saying to show a heart of obedience. The only thing I see in your posts is rebellion to the law of God. You just want to do what you want to do, and not even God's word stops you. Of course you will post back and say how God's word is not direct enough for you to follow it, pitiful man, just pitiful.


By the way, is this girlfriend of yours a believer in Christ? Best I can remember God's word does not apply to that either?

Please provide Biblical evidence and Canadian case law to back up your claims. So far all I've seen from you is conjecture, personal opinion, hypothesis and a mittfull of out of context Bible Bullets. That is not what I'm looking for, rather statements with a basis in fact.

To help get you started, please demonstrate empirical Biblical proof where God mandates a ceremony. Please demonstrate to me where God considers a civil union or marriage to be obedience to Him using the Bible and Canadian Law as your reference.

I have posed an honest question, and will be happy to entertain your honest answers and consider them when making my choice, provided they are well grounded in fact.

Thank you.

 

[LiberatedChick]

I believe that some ceremony is necessary and witnesses to your vows also. I'm getting married this Saturday in a civil ceremony (a non religious ceremony) and whilst it's not in a church (hadn't come back to Christianity when we booked it all) God will still be with us and so will our friends and family who will witness our vows. I believe a legal ceremony is important as whilst we are currently living together and sharing the responsibilities as if we were married I do not feel as though we are married without it being so in the eyes of the law. This was one of the problems I had with paganism as the pagan ceremony is known as a handfasting and is not legally recognised (at least not in thise country). I simply could not view the people who I knew to be handfasted as a married couple. I also think that if the marriage is not recognised in the eyes of the law it's easier to walk away from it.

So I believe that a marriage ceremony being performed and recognised by the law is important. And even if there weren't a legal ceremony being performed I believe that whatever ceremony there is should have witnesses. That's my personal view anyway.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Please provide Biblical evidence and Canadian case law to back up your claims. So far all I've seen from you is conjecture, personal opinion, hypothesis and a mittfull of out of context Bible Bullets. That is not what I'm looking for, rather statements with a basis in fact.

To help get you started, please demonstrate empirical Biblical proof where God mandates a ceremony. Please demonstrate to me where God considers a civil union or marriage to be obedience to Him using the Bible and Canadian Law as your reference.

I have posed an honest question, and will be happy to entertain your honest answers and consider them when making my choice, provided they are well grounded in fact.

Thank you.

Like I said, there is no direct voice in scripture that says the ceremony itself must be there. Using that as an excuse in and of itself is absurd. The bible says not to murder. But there is no empirical evidence that I cannot pay a hitman to murder someone. Because the Bible is silent, I have the license to go ahead and pay a hitman to murder whomever I want. Right? That's your logic in a nutshell. I got news for you, silence is not licence!!! Surely you should have other criteria than that to discount a biblical instruction, don't you think?

Here is an honest question, since you asked for an honest question: Is your girlfriend a professed believer in Jesus?

 

[SirKenin]

Like I said, there is no direct voice in scripture that says the ceremony itself must be there. Using that as an excuse in and of itself is absurd. The bible says not to murder. But there is no empirical evidence that I cannot pay a hitman to murder someone. Because the Bible is silent, I have the license to go ahead and pay a hitman to murder whomever I want. Right? That's your logic in a nutshell. I got news for you, silence is not licence!!! Surely you should have other criteria than that to discount a biblical instruction, don't you think?

Here is an honest question, since you asked for an honest question: Is your girlfriend a professed believer in Jesus?

Your example is absurd. Please see Jesus' teaching on murder in Matthew 5:21-26 to see just how absurd it is. Also consider Jesus' teaching on adultery. Observe how the thoughts of the mind are every bit as important as a physical contravention of the Law. Also consider the Law of the land.

Please. Provide relevant examples and facts.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Your example is absurd. Please see Jesus' teaching on murder in Matthew 5:21-26 to see just how absurd it is. Also consider Jesus' teaching on adultery. Observe how the thoughts of the mind are every bit as important as a physical contravention of the Law. Also consider the Law of the land.

Please. Provide relevant examples and facts.

I didn't hate the guy, I just had some extra money, and I thought it would be kinda like a new sport, to just off people. I don't see anythign morally wrong with it. After all, I don't want to murder the person in my heart, and I don't see empirical evidence in scripture that tells me not to hire a hitman to kill someone. This makes it okay right?

Wait wait wait, all of a sudden NOW you are concerned with the law of the land!!? I gotta tell ya, it's far too late to concern yourself with the law, for you have ignored it already!

Does your girlfriend profess faith in Jesus Christ?

 

[SirKenin]

By your last post it is clear to me that you have little if any understanding of Canadian Law. I have ignored nothing, but it appears to me that you have in an attempt to make a point and call me names in the process.

I can understand how the Rules attempt to prevent that, as it impedes discussion.

 

[SirKenin]

Anyways, your example is still impertinent. It ignores the fact that you're supposed to obey the Law of the land, that being that you can not murder, be an accessory to murder or otherwise.

In my country, you can live together and be considered married... So that is what I would call a double whammy against you. Not only does the Bible not mandate a wedding or marriage, neither does Canadian Law.

Soo... You were saying?

 

[Jenna]

You came into this with your mind already made up, what more is there to say?

 

[SirKenin]

Actually, the more I talk to people, the more my mind is made up. I don't have much use for conjecture and hypothesis. If there were facts to the contrary of my beliefs, I would alter my actions accordingly. I haven't seen any though. In particular I was looking for clear Biblical evidence.

 

[Warrior Poet]

Well then since we are dragging in what the Bible says about a ceremony lets see.....
Mentioned in the Bible:
Wedding dress-no
Wedding ring-no
Groomsmen-no
Flower Girls-no
Reception-no
Tux( or the equivalent)- Nope
Place of wedding-not that either

And on and on and on.... specifics weren't mentioned for good reason, tradition would have its place..in every culture. Cause if God cares how many hairs are on my head it would be safe to say he still allows us to be individuals, even in how we celebrate our marriages, or don't celebrate it.

So then.... the only Biblical thing (sticking with specifics to marriage) Dave did was leave home to be with her and join as one... other then that it was all unbiblical.( now that just sounds stupid) Obey the Law of the Land except in contradiction with the Words teachings... the Word doesn't teach about the little piece of paper signed, law does.... so is that a contradiction? And if not are we placing law above or instead of Christ's word, where do I take my que? Plus if I just get married in Gods eyes only then I wont get a tax break and the Government can keep more of my money..... give unto Ceaser what is his, they win really. *snikers and shakes head*

Dave what part of Christ's literal words on marriage am I suppose to take at face value?... the part where he got specific on the terms and conditions or do I contextualize this cause its not fitting in with your argument? You used to love to blast me with partial verses and quotes of Christ more so where he got "specific" if I contexualized it with other verses you would say to me.." Thats a cheap love for Christ and you are wrong." So why does this logic apply to me and others and not you?

PS.
Doc I know its a personal choice and I am 100% in favor of that.... its your world.... Glad to see you have found someone that shares in your frame of thinking. Just get the paper dude... party hard for one night and call it a new chapter..... cause me I want the tax break Do you get a tax break in Canada ay'?
LOL


Warrior Poet

 

[SirKenin]

lol eh?

Yes, you get tax breaks in Canada for common-law couples I'm going to party after the Ceremony of the Roses. It will be private, with just a few witnesses in attendance. Then we'll have a party afterwards to celebrate our new union.

Like I said, when I see evidence to the contrary, then we will be obliged to comply. I have no interest in contravening God's Word.

 

[Warrior Poet]

Fair enough.

Warrior Poet

 

[Jenna]

*shakes head* I dunno..... Everything that I have read about Canadian common law unions say that the couple are only recognized after having lived together for a certain amount of time. Varying by individual locals, I've read anywhere from 1-3 years, with with very limited "spousal right" unless a child is born from the union.

*shrugs* That still looks to me as government condoned fornication, leading to a recognized union. I could see the point, maybe, if it were a matter of their ceremony being enough to substatiate their marriage legally with their government. If that was all that was needed, hey, that would be great. I'm sure that a lot of us who had to pay filing fees and all that would have had happier wallets if we could do that. Everything that I've managed to read though has seemed to make it quite clear that up until the couple reaches a determined length of time having lived together, they are not viewed as having a common law marriage. So, what is it that they have in the meantime?

Another thing that I wonder about is, where is God in any of this? Are articles of your faith being incorporated in your ceremony to relfect that what you are reaching for is a union blessed by God and for His glory? I know that as the ceremony itself is written, there are no mentions of God at all.

 

[SoldierofChrist]

I agree with Jenna. Common-law is a an excuse for temporary sin which is intentional and directly against the Word of God. Those who are doing such things are playing with dynamite and I don't think it's worth tampering with the Scriptures and trying to justify sinful behavior.

 

[SirKenin]

Another thing that I wonder about is, where is God in any of this? Are articles of your faith being incorporated in your ceremony to relfect that what you are reaching for is a union blessed by God and for His glory? I know that as the ceremony itself is written, there are no mentions of God at all.

You're right, and the ceremony will most likely be custom tailored to our specific taste, by incorporating our own ideals into the vows.

 

[Warrior Poet]

Isnt that the point and beauty of it all....customization?

Warrior Poet

 

[SirKenin]

Well then since we are dragging in what the Bible says about a ceremony lets see.....
Mentioned in the Bible:
Wedding dress-no
Wedding ring-no
Groomsmen-no
Flower Girls-no
Reception-no
Tux( or the equivalent)- Nope
Place of wedding-not that either

Actually, with a little study you will find that most, if not all, of this stuff has it's roots in paganism, not the Bible. I'm not sure if our esteemed colleague is aware of this and what he is actually promoting.

PS.
Doc I know its a personal choice and I am 100% in favor of that.... its your world.... Glad to see you have found someone that shares in your frame of thinking. Just get the paper dude... party hard for one night and call it a new chapter..... cause me I want the tax break Do you get a tax break in Canada ay'?
LOL


Warrior Poet

Living together over the course of a year allows you to file jointly as a married couple at the end of the taxation period. Further to this I have corporate tax breaks for owning an incorporation eh. lol

 

[SirKenin]

Isnt that the point and beauty of it all....customization?

Warrior Poet

Yes.. The Ceremony, if you desire to adhere to it precisely, does not define the vows exchanged between the two parties. That gives us a great deal of discretion We're really looking forward to it.

 

[SoldierofChrist]

I am simply in awe of the customization of particular views into Scripture. Yes customizing is superb, especially when you are customizing Scripture to meet your particular desires. If the culture says you aren't married until you have lived together for a certain amount of time, you aren't married until you are declared married by common law. Ie: if you live together and are having sex with a woman and aren't recognized by the government or your local church as married, you are committing fornication.

I find it sad yet humorous that two inviduals find it so difficult to adhere to the law of the land by being recognized as married by the particular nation, even though it's as simple as paying a fee and getting a license before a Justice as is the case in America.

Personally I don't think a ceremony is necessary, however, you still must be in accordance with the law... regardless of the pitiful morals that it may embrace. Living together may be all well and good by culture, but you are not officially married by law, which makes you freely living in sin. If those in your local church body don't recognize you as married and your government doesn't recognize you as married, you aren't married.

I honestly don't understand what is so difficult about getting a license?

 

[DaveKerwin]

Did you make this thread so WP could pat you on the back and you could feel better about being a fornicator? You don’t think a ceremony is necessary, yet you are going to have one. You bring out the point of common practices being pagan, yet you are going to do the ceremony of the roses. You are going to live with an unbelieving woman and have sex with her without being married by the state, yet somehow you are concerned with obeying the laws of the land. Here is the point: Your concern is not for the law of God, it is for the law of Drfeelgood. You do what makes you feel good, and you have lived up to your screen name perfectly. You could care less about God’s commands, and you will use any intellectual out you can find. What you are doing is wrong.