Doctrine of Hell

[hola]

So are you now saying that all human souls will exist for eternity. Frankly I do not understand what point you are trying to make. A moment ago I thought we were debating now we seem to be agreeing on the very thing I thought we were debating??

Yes, all human souls will exist for eternity. Some receive an incorruptble/imortal body (if you want Scripture referrences I will give them). Others, as I have said, using Jesus' words, will be in hell for eternity.

 

[hola]

Okay here are some of the verses.

1 Corinthians 15:42-54

Peter also said "Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me."

That "tabernacle" was his physical body. But he still had a soul.

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thessalonians 5:23

 

[ps139]

Yes, all human souls will exist for eternity. Some receive an incorruptble/imortal body (if you want Scripture referrences I will give them). Others, as I have said, using Jesus' words, will be in hell for eternity.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, hola, it seems we were in agreement the whole time!

 

[Ave Maria]

I honestly don't know what I believe concerning whether Hell (or the Lake of Fire because I honestly don't know the difference between the two) is something that the unbelievers will burn in forever or if they will be consumed by it. I am interested in learning more though. I crave to learn more about the Word of God!

 

[ps139]

I think the Lake of Fire and Hell are two words for the same thing. And souls are not destroyed by God - souls will exist in Heaven and hell for eternity.

 

[hola]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, hola, it seems we were in agreement the whole time!

No problem friend,

My goal is to be Biblical. I don't want to compromise on that.

God bless you.

 

[hola]

What if you never hear and hence never reject?

Think about this...God has given to every person a measure of faith. This, as I've described in other places can be understood by the parable of the seed and the sower. God scattered his seed, the word of God-as the Bible says. The "word of faith" was preached by Paul....be careful because there is a "Word of Faith" movement out there that may not be the same thing. Do you see the connection so far: seed=word=faith. God has given to every man a measure of faith. Jesus also described faith the size of a mustard seed in the Gospels as well. The question is...what will they do with this "word". God is able to reveal truth or himself to anyone by his Spirit....so if by chance someone did not "hear" by a man, God is able to speak by his Spirit. He has spoken to me by his Holy Spirit before....I testify that he can speak to anyone, and that he has to me. So in any event...every person will in some way hear the gospel. "Ye must be born again." What will you do with this seed given to you?

 

[G4m]

Think about this...God has given to every person a measure of faith. This, as I've described in other places can be understood by the parable of the seed and the sower. God scattered his seed, the word of God-as the Bible says. The "word of faith" was preached by Paul....be careful because there is a "Word of Faith" movement out there that may not be the same thing. Do you see the connection so far: seed=word=faith. God has given to every man a measure of faith. Jesus also described faith the size of a mustard seed in the Gospels as well. The question is...what will they do with this "word". God is able to reveal truth or himself to anyone by his Spirit....so if by chance someone did not "hear" by a man, God is able to speak by his Spirit. He has spoken to me by his Holy Spirit before....I testify that he can speak to anyone, and that he has to me. So in any event...every person will in some way hear the gospel. "Ye must be born again." What will you do with this seed given to you?

What about those who can't act on that seed before they die? Such as a baby?

 

[Mother Vashti]

I'm a young adult, coming into contact with very leather-hearted people for the first time. I'm not going to lament their final destination just to seem super-humanitarian. Super-humanitarianism can get to a point where justice -- for you, and for me -- has been compromised.

 

[porcupine]

I did address this in my post #25


The believers with the Holy Spirit don't need to worry about separation from God, they have God in them...that' pretty close!

David said, "even if I was in hell (with his current relationship with the Lord the same), God would be with me". Why? The Holy Spirit was in David.

You understand the Psalm incorrectly. He says:

Psalm 139:7
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

He is talking about even the potential if he were to flee from God. This is not speaking only to how God is with you wherever you are as one of His, but that you cannot escape Him even if you want to.

I have heard a theory that the Lake of Fire is the same fire that is in the midst of the throne room of God -- the fire of His love. Only those who are damned see His love as a horrible torment (just like they did while on earth). Just a thought.

 

[G4m]

Or don't you base your "christian" beliefs on the Bible at all?

Job 26:6Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Proverbs 15:11Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

Amos 9:2Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

Acts 2:31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

 

[hola]

What about those who can't act on that seed before they die? Such as a baby?

Very good question!

I don't know. I base my beliefs on Scripture, as you do....I don't think I was actually coming against you though with other posts that I made....let me look over the posts once more. I would like to know. The Scriptures say that God has given to all people a measure of faith. I think that means all. Some try to understand the "age of accountabitly" thing...I have been able to yet. If God has given all people "faith", which I have been describing in more detail on other posts concerning how we handle this faith....all I can say for babies is that God only knows.....I think he would take them to Heaven. You gave me something to pray about, and I would like to know if you find the answer as well....please tell me if you do find out. Is that a sufficient answer for now.....I'll have to reply to another one of yours I think....

 

[ps139]

What about those who can't act on that seed before they die? Such as a baby?

We trust in the mercy of God in those cases. But it would be a lie to say we knew for certain what happens, simply because we are not The Judge.
But Jesus had such a love for children, and I totally disagree with that old preacher (Jonathan Edwards?) who claimed that the road to hell is paved with skulls of unbaptized babies. I think he was more into shock tactics. Our Lord is merciful. I believe these babies go to heaven, but thats just my belief.

 

[saltoearth]

I think you've got the right idea, Brother Simon.
God loves all of His creations. But if we reject Him, then we separate ourselves from Him, reject His gift of grace - then how can we enter Heaven? And besides Heaven, where else can we go? Hell.
Evil is the absence of God. If we do not accept God, then we go where He is not.

interesting, so you've found a place where God is not present?

Ps 139:8

If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

 

[hola]

Job 26:6Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Proverbs 15:11Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

Amos 9:2Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

Acts 2:31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Hell/Hades is actually different than the Lake of Fire. Please refer to Revelation 20:14. So even if David or other believers were once in Hell/Hades....when he takes them to be with him, some may think he has already (I'm not stating my position)...would it be correct then to say that before he casts Hell/Hades into the Lake of Fire, he'll take his believers out. Hence, God is not in the Lake of Fire if his people are not.....Does that clear up things? (Instant revelation). Even if David or Jonah or anyone else were in Hell/Hades, they would not be in the Lake of Fire. Where I said God would not be....my "hell" was actually the Lake of Fire. I am now corrected on wrong usage of terminology and understanding. But in the Lake of Fire....God is not there nor in it, as stated before. God is in the midst of HIS people.

Hallelujah!

God bless you!

 

[saltoearth]

Hola friend,

A couple wise friends helped me understand part of this some time ago. You see, God IS our salvation....if and only if we have God, we are saved. Now God does love everybody. He doesn't want any to perish. The only reason that people go to hell is because they choose to. They reject God, their salvation.

Hell is the only place where God is not, and nothing of his character is there. It's the only place where people choose to go to actually get completely away from God. They are completely separated from God. Think about the fruit of the Holy Spirit (if you want to describe God's character or nature)...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. None of those things will be in hell, because God is not there. Neither will hope (as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13, and other Scriptures). No one in hell will ever have any hope of leaving hell or things getting better for them. Why not? As I said....they chose to be separated from God. To be separated from God is to be separated from salvation, and any hope of going to heaven, and any hope of not going to hell.

I keep hearing people say that you choose to go to hell, to be tormented forever. Show me the verse.

As I posted before, no one can ever be separated from God. God is omnipresent.

How can someone who has never even heard the gospel REPENT of their sins and believe in Jesus if they don't know who he is? How have all these people 'choosen' to go to hell?

Do you believe that those without the gospel will be given salvation even though they didn't believe in Jesus? Or do you believe that ANYONE who has not Believed on Jesus will suffer in hell forever?

 

[GenemZ]

We trust in the mercy of God in those cases. But it would be a lie to say we knew for certain what happens, simply because we are not The Judge.
But Jesus had such a love for children, and I totally disagree with that old preacher (Jonathan Edwards?) who claimed that the road to hell is paved with skulls of unbaptized babies. I think he was more into shock tactics. Our Lord is merciful. I believe these babies go to heaven, but thats just my belief.

David spoke as the prophet he was when he spoke about his newborn son who just died.

"David noticed that his servants were whispering among themselves and he realized the child was dead. "Is the child dead?" he asked.
"Yes," they replied, "he is dead."

Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.

His servants asked him, "Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"

He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, 'Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.' But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." 2 Samuel 12:19-23 niv

David knew he was to see his son again.....


Grace in peace, GeneZ

 

[hola]

David spoke as the prophet he was when he spoke about his newborn son who just died.

"David noticed that his servants were whispering among themselves and he realized the child was dead. "Is the child dead?" he asked.
"Yes," they replied, "he is dead."

Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.

His servants asked him, "Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"

He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, 'Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.' But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." 2 Samuel 12:19-23 niv

David knew he was to see his son again.....


Grace in peace, GeneZ

What more could I say....well.....HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!

Thank God for other Christians who can discern the Scriptures and help us understand by them!!!!!

 

[Carl Carlson]

How can someone who has never even heard the gospel REPENT of their sins and believe in Jesus if they don't know who he is? How have all these people 'choosen' to go to hell?

Do you believe that those without the gospel will be given salvation even though they didn't believe in Jesus? Or do you believe that ANYONE who has not Believed on Jesus will suffer in hell forever?

No one will go to hell because they haven't heard of Jesus Christ. They will go to hell for lying, stealing, murder, rape, idolatry, etc. Sin isn't failing to hear the gospel. Rather, sin is transgressing against the Law. We all have a conscience that is God's Law written on our hearts. We know when we sin, because the Spirit convicts us of it. God's Spirit is given to all man for this reason. We can and will be shown that God is real by not only our creation, but also by God's Spirit witnessing to our spirit.

For those of us who truly care for those lost who haven't heard the gospel from the human mouth, we will become missionaries and take the good news of God's forgiveness in Christ to them.

 

[Carl Carlson]

The question was posed concerning the children going to heaven.

The Scriptures say that God has given to all people a measure of faith. I think that means all. Some try to understand the "age of accountabitly" thing...I have been able to yet. If God has given all people "faith", which I have been describing in more detail on other posts concerning how we handle this faith....all I can say for babies is that God only knows.....I think he would take them to Heaven. You gave me something to pray about, and I would like to know if you find the answer as well....please tell me if you do find out. Is that a sufficient answer for now.....I'll have to reply to another one of yours I think....

I do believe in age of accountability and even beyond that, I have faith in Jesus Christ, who said in Matthew 11:25;
"I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Luke 9:46-48
Who Will Be the Greatest
46An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. 47Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48Then he said to them, "Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For he who is least among you all--he is the greatest."

Mark 10:13-16
13People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.

Sounds to me like it's going to be like a big daddy day care in there! The Father with a whole lotta kids! PRAISE THE LORD!