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Featured Doctrinal Origin from Pope Gregory I

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Swordman007, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. Swag365

    Swag365 Well-Known Member

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    This is also your opinion and I also reject it, absent proof.
     
  2. Swordman007

    Swordman007 Truth Seeker

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    No. Are there such people?

    I think you're correct.

    I agree. Both sides of any argument have all manner of authorities and scholars to which each side may subscribe. It's a blessing to us all that we're not confined to schisms and not knowing how to find the answers. 1 John 2:27 provides the ULTIMATE source for answers, and in Whom I trust far above any earthly authority on any side of any issue. The Lord didn't leave us to floundering about with no recourse for getting to His thoughts and His ways about any and all teachings.

    I didn't think we were debating. I've asked questions, made some observations, pointed out scripture, and spoke of my appeal to the Highest Authority. The journey for truth is a noble one worthy of our most stringent endeavors.
     
  3. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My thought is that you have met less than 10 others that you are aware of. You probably have also learned that you can’t share unless Christ has prepared the way. I’m very happy to hear that you now now. Nobody escapes judgement.
     
  4. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    There is a simple point here, is celibacy a choice or a condition of the ministers of the church?
    Repression of emotional issues makes them more powerful in a persons life, while facing them and balancing out ones approach works.

    On the issue of how does various organisations handle sexual issues, I cannot make any judgement, as I know little about it. My point was my position in terms of a healthy balance.

    God bless you
     
  5. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The point you make may initially seem to be wishful thinking or a guess, but the evidence--the actual experiences of the different denominations--appears to verify your point.
     
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  6. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    The concept and belief of a state or place prior to Heaven and Hell is not a Christian teaching that was invented by Pope Gregory. Even the Jews believed this, and Orthodox as well. It's just the views of what that is actually like that was brought into teaching. Not everything was fully understood or described at full comprehensible capacity during the times of the prophets and apostles where writing, there are some things that just theologically developed.

    This belief of limbo is just reasonable faith. Regardless of what Christ did, justice has to be served and it would be just wrong for sins that someone may have towards another person to just get swept under the rug.
     
  7. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    It was a choice. Mainly to prevent something like Nepotism. Back in the day, Priests where allowed to get married, but I recall reading that some priests had numerous wives. Then there where Priests whose sons eventually inherited their father's position, etc etc.. hence celibacy became a tradition.
     
  8. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    That's true, but "Swordman" asked about Purgatory specifically.

    What does Limbo have to do with this discussion? It's about Purgatory.
     
  9. Swag365

    Swag365 Well-Known Member

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    It is not mandated by Scripture or Tradition, if that is what you mean. There have always been married priests within the Catholic Church, although for the last 1000 years or so the celibacy vow has been the norm for clergy. Whether it is a good idea today as a matter of prudence, or if it was a good idea at any point, that is an open question for me personally. I can see good arguments on both sides.

    Well I don't think its been established that leading a celibate life is a cause of pedophilia. I would need to look at the evidence, but the last time I looked it appeared to me that the rate of improper conduct among celibates was no higher than the general population.

    You certainly see some things in Scripture where St. Paul appears to encourage celibacy so I don't think we can say that the choice is categorically wrong. If you think about it, many practicing Christians are celibate for a substantial period, before they are married. Nobody suggests that they are more likely to go out and abuse children, and that they should all marry the day that they turn 18, because to wait will cause them molest children. But that is essentially the same form of argument that you are making. You are just applying the argument to a different class of people (priests).

    Thanks. May God bless you too.
     
  10. Swordman007

    Swordman007 Truth Seeker

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    That sounds rather "blanket." Not all Jews believed it, nor do many of them believe it now....either that, or my Jewish friends are lying to me.

    Theologically developed? That implies the understanding was therefore man-made rather than God-breathed. Is that a correct assessment of what you said?

    I thought Jesus satisfied the justice of our sins and imperfections given that it is written that He became sin FOR us. Where does scripture demand that He did not atone for it all?
     
  11. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Would you include, in writing, the POPE and the RCC in the above statement please. So we know where you stand.
     
  12. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    I ASKED YOU FOR SCRIPTURE AND YOU DID NOT SUPPLY ANY. YOU DEFLECTED TO THE ABOVE
     
  13. Swag365

    Swag365 Well-Known Member

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    Who cares? Plenty of verses have been provided in this thread. It's not like your opinion is gonna change. She'll give you a verse or two and then you'll object to the use of it. She'll give you another verse and you'll object to that too. You just want to debate endlessly.
     
  14. Swag365

    Swag365 Well-Known Member

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    Friend, the pope may add or remove books from the Bible as he pleases. Just the other day he took out Matthew and replaced it with the didache.
     
  15. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    Because Purgatory involves the state of limbo or just one of the beliefs that regard the time before Heaven and Hell. It's just what we believe that experience to be like is what our differences are.
    The beliefs in regards to the experience is not as important to the actual concept where it is all rooted from. This specific time of person is biblical and that is what Protestants took away and disregard.
     
  16. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    Why would you expect to, other than the mistaken notion that everything they taught must have been written down at the time they taught it?
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Where have I heard that one before? ;)
     
  18. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    Nope. They all do. Jewish always believed the soul will go or undergo something first before going to final destination.

    No. Many teachings are developed, it's not man made but man developed a better understanding of it as time went by.

    But not all sins can just be swept under the rug. The reality and virtue of justice still exists.

    Matthew 5:26
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 12:37 PM
  19. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Only GOD can read my mind and you are not him so please refrain from insinuating that you are him by your statements.
     
  20. Swordman007

    Swordman007 Truth Seeker

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    It goes to credibility. If there is a place for purging, then one cannot escape the conclusion that Christ did NOT become sin for us, as is written. The scriptures give me no reason to believe:

    * there is sin,
    * there are half way sins, and then
    * non-sin.

    Sin is sin, from what I have always known, and attempts at establishing what sound like "not quite" sin, but also "not quite" righteous....as if there is some middle ground between sin and righteousness. To my thinking, that would be like saying a woman can be "partially pregnant" without arguing the finer details of the fertilized egg not yet attached to the lining, etc.

    So, there's no middle ground to Christ's crucifixion from what I understand that the apostles wrote. If someone has something substantial in the language of scripture in support of purging, then I'd be interested in seeing it.
     
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