Do your best to explain Romans 5

[zoidar]

NO salvation here in v12-15, no one can keep the law whether written in the heart or not.
And it says they will be judged by the LAW written in their heart.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
'14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law '

Amazing how many echo and believe and affirm the false teachings of another.
Specifically v15 mentions the 'work of the law'. By work of the law no one will be justified.
Faith in WHAT?? Your supporting salvation for someone who has no faith in Christ. A big red 'X' for you.
ANTICHRIST belief system at work. You guys are heretical.

Any time in scripture in the NT, you read about work of the law, it is negative for salvation.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You have to distinguish between the whole Mosaic Law, and the Moral Law, the ten commandments. The former we can't we keep, the latter we are to keep. If you read the NASB, you see it uses capital "L" when it's referring to the Mosaic Law.

 

[sdowney717]

You have to distinguish between the whole Mosaic Law, and the Moral Law, the ten commandments. The former we can't we keep, the latter we are to keep. If you read the NASB, you see it uses capital "L" when it's referring to the Mosaic Law.

Regardless of your opinion, those gentiles if they have no faith in Christ none of them then is justified.

See you still refuse to be corrected. If you support salvation for people who have no faith in Christ, then your a heretic, this is what it means to be antichrist, you deny the Father and the Son.
Your now suggesting they keep the moral law and they are saved from hell?
Total works righteousness, another antichrist teaching.

To be JUSTIFIED, means to be made right with God, and people are justified only by their faith in Christ. Apparently you disagree with Christ. Your sophistry is awful, your not even Christian IMO, if you say you can Come to the Father apart from faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[zoidar]

Regardless of your opinion, those gentiles if they have no faith in Christ none of them then is justified.

See you still refuse to be corrected. If you support salvation for people who have no faith in Christ, then your a heretic, this is what it means to be antichrist, you deny the Father and the Son.
Your now suggesting they keep the moral law and they are saved from hell?
Total works righteousness, another antichrist teaching.

To be JUSTIFIED, means to be made right with God, and people are justified only by their faith in Christ. Apparently you disagree with Christ. Your sophistry is awful, your not even Christian IMO, if you say you can Come to the Father apart from faith in Jesus Christ.

You have totally misunderstood what I wrote. Of course they won't be justified without faith! I didn't say they would. On the contrary I said: "No one can keep the moral law without the Holy Spirit".

"But anyone, Jew or Greek, who by faith and Holy Spirit do the deeds of the Law, the heart of the Law, keep the ten commandments, will be saved." #539

 

[sdowney717]

You have totally misunderstood what I wrote. Of course they won't be justified without faith! I didn't say they would. On the contrary I said: "No one can keep the moral law without the Holy Spirit".

"But anyone, Jew or Greek, who by faith and Holy Spirit do the deeds of the Law, the heart of the Law, keep the ten commandments, will be saved." #539

Do the deeds of the LAW, no where are you getting this! Not the scriptures...
In fact the Jerusalem council specifically address this about keeping the law.

The Holy Spirit leads people to faith in Jesus Christ, His works, and not our own to be saved, not performing moral works or works of the law.
You are real slippery, your backtracking a little now. The other poster said gentiles are JUSTIFIED with GOD by the works of the law written in their heart, no mentions of Christ being needed, because the teaching is about gentiles who have not heard of Christ.

And these gentiles in Acts 15 were saved by faith in Jesus Christ, (they were church people), not works of the law written in their heart.

Acts 15
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, [h]saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual[j] immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

 

[zoidar]

Do the deeds of the LAW, no where are you getting this! Not the scriptures...
In fact the Jerusalem council specifically address this about keeping the law.

The Holy Spirit leads people to faith in Jesus Christ, His works, and not our own to be saved, not performing moral works or works of the law.
You are real slippery, your backtracking a little now. The other poster said gentiles are JUSTIFIED with GOD by the works of the law written in their heart, no mentions of Christ being needed, because the teaching is about gentiles who have not heard of Christ.

And these gentiles in Acts 15 were saved by faith in Jesus Christ, (they were church people), not works of the law written in their heart.

I'm not sure what you mean by slippery and backtracking... I have said the same thing all along (since I came to understand the scripture), that all men are being justified by faith, and faith = believe in + obedience (works). It goes for gentiles and it goes for Jews, like Paul is saying in Romans.

 

[mark kennedy]

Do the deeds of the LAW, no where are you getting this! Not the scriptures...
In fact the Jerusalem council specifically address this about keeping the law.

The Holy Spirit leads people to faith in Jesus Christ, His works, and not our own to be saved, not performing moral works or works of the law.
You are real slippery, your backtracking a little now. The other poster said gentiles are JUSTIFIED with GOD by the works of the law written in their heart, no mentions of Christ being needed, because the teaching is about gentiles who have not heard of Christ.

And these gentiles in Acts 15 were saved by faith in Jesus Christ, (they were church people), not works of the law written in their heart.

Acts 15
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, [h]saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual[j] immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

I'm just curious, even though I agree on justification by grace through faith. There are those saved at final judgment that never knew they Law or the gospel right?

 

[sdowney717]

I'm just curious, even though I agree on justification by grace through faith. There are those saved at final judgment that never knew they Law or the gospel right?

I dont believe that, you show me the scripture that proves it.
Jesus tells us no one, which means none.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Through Me, simply they must know Him, to know God and Christ. However I do think all that God wants to know Him will know Him, and no one else will know Him.

Here are 2 more to think about, notice it is His will that they that know know Him and no one will know otherwise.
Luke 10
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

2 Thessalonians 1
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

 

[mark kennedy]

I dont believe that, you show me the scripture that proves it.
Jesus tells us no one, which means none.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Through Me, simply they must know Him, to know God and Christ. However I do think all that God wants to know Him will know Him, and no one else will know Him.

Here are 2 more to think about, notice it is His will that they that know know Him and no one will know otherwise.
Luke 10
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

2 Thessalonians 1
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

How are people that never heared the gospel supposed to believe it? What they ultimately believe and accept is the righteousness of God in Christ. But you can't believe what you never heard. General revelation, sure no problem, but the special revelation of the Law or Christ and the gospel, it doesn't happen for everyone.I

 

[sdowney717]

How are people that never heated the gospel supposed yo believe it? What the ultimately believe and accept is the righteousness of God in Christ. But you can't believe what you never heard. General revelation, sure no problem, but the special revelation of the Law or Christ and the gospel, it doesn't happen for everyone.I

Then if they never hear, they are dead.
You do not believe the scriptures?
All follow after the devil, fulfilling the lusts of the flesh, until God makes them alive.
Those who are in the flesh cannot please God, well if so they wont be going to heaven.
They are DEAD, and not in Christ, and are by nature children of WRATH.

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

It is God's justice to send sinners to hellward, but His love and mercy to send those formerly known as sinners to heaven. Believers are light in the lord, unbelievers, all of them are darkness.

 

[sdowney717]

About hearing, all have physical ears, but not all hear spiritual truth from God. To hear would be in the Spirit having spiritual ears to hear God, since God is a Spirit and He communicates spiritually to people the truth of Christ into their born of God hearts, meaning those He is saving, regenerated persons, as 1 Corinthians 2 says.

Jesus says He gives life to whom He will. Jesus says He will speak His voice, the dead will hear and those who hear will live. He speaks life to whom He wills, and those He wills have the ears to hear. Having those ears to hear God means they are of God, meaning they are born again. They live according to the Spirit.

John 8: 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”



John 5
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Life and Judgment Are Through the Son
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

 

[corinth77777]

NO salvation here in v12-15, no one can keep the law whether written in the heart or not.
And it says they will be judged by the LAW written in their heart.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
'14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law '

Amazing how many echo and believe and affirm the false teachings of another.
Specifically v15 mentions the 'work of the law'. By work of the law no one will be justified.
Faith in WHAT?? Your supporting salvation for someone who has no faith in Christ. A big red 'X' for you.
ANTICHRIST belief system at work. You guys are heretical.

Any time in scripture in the NT, you read about work of the law, it is negative for salvation.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

NO salvation here in v12-15, no one can keep the law whether written in the heart or not.
And it says they will be judged by the LAW written in their heart.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
'14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law '

Amazing how many echo and believe and affirm the false teachings of another.
Specifically v15 mentions the 'work of the law'. By work of the law no one will be justified.
Faith in WHAT?? Your supporting salvation for someone who has no faith in Christ. A big red 'X' for you.
ANTICHRIST belief system at work. You guys are heretical.

Any time in scripture in the NT, you read about work of the law, it is negative for salvation.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

To me, I seen the passage, as away of understanding circumcision...

Rom 2
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
"12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus."

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?

Yeshuaslavejeff is right! What Paul is saying is not that gentiles can be saved without faith. He is saying when the gentiles have faith, they have the power through the Spirit to keep the Law. Which law? The law that is written in their hearts. The Jews who have the whole Mosaic Law and don't keep it won't be saved. But anyone, Jew or Greek, who by faith and Holy Spirit do the deeds of the Law, the heart of the Law, keep the ten commandments, will be saved. There is no partiality with God.

No, I don't agree totally....for it's a hypothetical situation....to show what I wrote above....
That if a person could be justified by the law it would be the ones that do the law.

Rom 2
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
"12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus."

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?

Yeshuaslavejeff is right! What Paul is saying is not that gentiles can be saved without faith. He is saying when the gentiles have faith, they have the power through the Spirit to keep the Law. Which law? The law that is written in their hearts. The Jews who have the whole Mosaic Law and don't keep it won't be saved. But anyone, Jew or Greek, who by faith and Holy Spirit do the deeds of the Law, the heart of the Law, keep the ten commandments, will be saved. There is no partiality with God.

I believe there is a sense of right in all our answers but especially mine...smile.

The true validity of circumcision...was not in those who had there foreskin cut off....but rather those who lived up to their circumcision.

The Gentiles doing the law could be considered as one that would be justified if He could continual in it.

But KJV does not say he is Justified...rather [shall be] having known of Christ's coming and atonement. Only then shall He be justified.

So All I was doing was correcting what He said that : they presently were....justified

So true! No man is Justified by the law by their works, however man is Justified by the law through the faithfulness of Jesus by their obedience.


The passage also engulfed how we keep the law through faith.
Putting knowledge side by side to understand how faith works.

 

[corinth77777]

To me, I seen the passage, as away of understanding circumcision...

No, I don't agree totally....for it's a hypothetical situation....to show what I wrote above....
That if a person could be justified by the law it would be the ones that do the law.

I believe there is a sense of right in all our answers but especially mine...smile.

The true validity of circumcision...was not in those who had there foreskin cut off....but rather those who lived up to their circumcision.

The Gentiles doing the law could be considered as one that would be justified if He could continual in it.

But KJV does not say he is Justified...rather [shall be] having known of Christ's coming and atonement. Only then shall He be justified.

So All I was doing was correcting what He said that : they presently were....justified

So true! No man is Justified by the law by their works, however man is Justified by the law through the faithfulness of Jesus by their obedience.


The passage also engulfed how we keep the law through faith.
Putting knowledge side by side to understand how faith works.

As a Baptist, coming from a father who went to Fuller Theological seminary a PK. I had to relearn somethings.
First, about the Gospel of the kingdom Jesus preached....If there was one gospel why did Paul seem like he was preaching another......I knew there was one but How it all came together was my quest. And I'm still learning, but learning that the kingdom is at hand
And life was available now through Jesus the creator was the beginning.
Understanding and defining terms as eternal life as the characteristic of life eternal [ages and ages]...was the process of new interpretation.
Once we look into the true meaning of some of these terms we will change our religious habits. The church is not built off of our box of doctrine, but the revelation of Jesus Christ. It took me awhile to come out of it....Religion I call it....yet I didn't know it at that time....What I realize though is no one has anything to boast about...unless God is behind it. Another words when our pride gets in the way, in which many of us do not recognize we have...we are not going to learn anymore than whats in our box. There are other words like holy ghost and holy Spirit. Jesus Christ vs Christ Jesus. Saved....and what else is included in our salvation besides for justification. And what we are saved from...and why we are saved...There is so much to learn....But we must be patient with those who "know" what they believe they know because we have all fallen short.

 

[zoidar]

So true! No man is Justified by the law by their works, however man is Justified by the law through the faithfulness of Jesus by their obedience.

Yes, man is justified by faith and obedience, obedience to Jesus commands, which are the ten commandments in it's full meaning. That is how I understand it.

 

[sdowney717]

To me, I seen the passage, as away of understanding circumcision...

How can you believe Romans 2, about the work of the law written in their hearts, be just about physical circumcision which is unimportant.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

 

[corinth77777]

[QUOTE="corinth77777, post: 72927216, member: 342767"
So true! No man is Justified by the law by their works, however man is Justified by the law through the faithfulness of Jesus by their obedience.



Yes, man is justified by faith and obedience, obedience to Jesus commands, which are the ten commandments in it's full meaning. That is how I understand it.

There are times we need to reconsruct or add to our views in accordance to the knowledge, and understanding given. Because I don't believe God gives us more revelation than we have the process of maturing with. Also, with knowledge should be the outcome of at least some leaf or fruit...right?

And we have not even commented on what happens first or the process before this....For we can go at least that far back as God through His word created man in His likeness giving man the resources in themselves to connect with Him at a particular time. Without God, none of us would be here.

Yes, man is justified by faith and obedience, obedience to Jesus commands, which are the ten commandments in it's full meaning.



Well, I understand what you are saying.
But I woundn't say it like that for those who may have a limited understanding of Grace and [as I myself am still learning coming out of the box] and the meaning of the use of "faith" in each context. Simply to the fact as I mentioned before that many of us can be circular in our thinking with words we,ve yet to unpan out.

The way the above in blue is noted a personage of my old box would see it as "your adding works to Grace" so we should do our best to order our words with that in mind.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes, man is justified by faith and obedience, obedience to Jesus commands, which are the ten commandments in it's full meaning. That is how I understand it.

Man is not justified by obedience, but by spoken words. Out of the heart, the mouth speaks. What God has cleansed you shall not call common.
Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

People give themselves away as to who they really are by their spoken words. God keeps a record of them. An evil person, one who is not born again, has spoken many evil and blasphemous things before they do any evil actions. Words are spoken out from the heart, evil words proceed from evil thoughts.

 

[corinth77777]

How can you believe Romans 2, about the work of the law written in their hearts, be just about physical circumcision which is unimportant.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Actually I should have deleted that...lol....that was what I Saw at First thought before I read the whole chapter.
But it's still a piece of it in that chapter...the latter part was my full thought...sorry that didn't delete...

 

[zoidar]

Actually I should have deleted that...lol....that was what I Saw at First thought before I read the whole chapter.
But it's still a piece of it in that chapter...the latter part was my full thought...sorry that didn't delete...

We are allowed to think! It's great that you think! We are supposed to be thinking Christians.

 

[zoidar]

Yes, man is justified by faith and obedience, obedience to Jesus commands, which are the ten commandments in it's full meaning.

The way the above in blue is noted a personage of my old box would see it as "your adding works to Grace" so we should do our best to order our words with that in mind.

I don't mean adding work to grace. I believe it's more work out of grace. It's not allways easy to fully understand how works, obedience, faith, grace, love, go together, and describing it correctly is probably even harder.

 

[sdowney717]

I don't mean adding work to grace. I believe it's more work out of grace. It's not allways easy to fully understand how work, obedience, faith, grace, love, works together, and describing it correctly is even harder.

Which version do you prefer,
Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through obedience.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Grace is NOT work, if it is work then it is NOT grace.
Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.