Do your best to explain Romans 5

[sdowney717]

Another verse is in Hebrews 8, where GOd describes how the New covenant actually works.
It shows God sovereignly, monergistically writes His laws on their heart and into their minds, and then they are His people. The people don't chose Christ as their God, and then God writes His laws into their minds afterward.


10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

11 And it will nevermore be necessary for each one to teach his neighbor and his fellow citizen or each one his brother, saying, Know (perceive, have knowledge of, and get acquainted by experience with) the Lord, for all will know Me, from the smallest to the greatest of them.

12 For I will be merciful and gracious toward their sins and I will remember their deeds of unrighteousness no more.

13 When God speaks of a new [covenant or agreement], He makes the first one obsolete (out of use). And what is obsolete (out of use and annulled because of age) is ripe for disappearance and to be dispensed with altogether.

 

[sdowney717]

And here is another, I john 5

1 John 5 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
5 Everyone who believes (adheres to, trusts, and relies on the fact) that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah) is a born-again child of God; and everyone who loves the Father also loves the one born of Him (His offspring).

The reason they believe is they are born of God, they don't believe to become born of God.

1 John 5 English Standard Version (ESV)
Overcoming the World
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

 

[mark kennedy]

The message is for all men, but yes, not everyone is willing.

Then not everyone is in Christ the way were in Adam.

 

[corinth77777]

But who is Christ speaking to , unbelievers??
I can see by what you posted you do not believe the scripture, scripture says no one seeks for God.
You do not believe 'we are saved by grace', you believe in a grace that you add on things about yourself to bring about your salvation. Grace is not man seeking God.
But see, if a man is born again first, without which the man can not perceive the kingdom of God, then it is entirely 100% all grace that you are saved, not of your ability or works, nothing of the man, all of God. You believe man works with God synergistically, I say the outcome is predetermined by God, not man who He saves. God when He makes you born anew, you are changed and taught by Him and all of those born anew eventually come to Christ, just as Christ says in John 3 and John 6.

In Matthew 6, Christ is not preaching to unbelievers telling them to seek Him-God. GOD IS NOT THE FATHER OF UNBELIEVERS
30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and green and tomorrow is tossed into the furnace, will He not much more surely clothe you, O you of little faith?

31 Therefore do not worry and be anxious, saying, What are we going to have to eat? or, What are we going to have to drink? or, What are we going to have to wear?

32 For the Gentiles (heathen) wish for and crave and diligently seek all these things, and your heavenly Father knows well that you need them all.

33 But seek ([z]aim at and strive after) first of all His kingdom and His righteousness ([aa]His way of doing and being right), and then all these things [ab]taken together will be given you besides.

34 So do not worry or be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will have worries and anxieties of its own. Sufficient for each day is its own trouble.

But see, if a man is born again first, without which the man can not perceive the kingdom of God, then it is entirely 100% all grace that you are saved, not of your ability or works, nothing of the man, all of God. You believe man works with God synergistically, I say the outcome is predetermined by God, not man who He saves. God when He makes you born anew, you are changed and taught by Him and all of those born anew eventually come to Christ, just as Christ says in John 3 and John 6.

I know man is born again but I haven't studied the meaning nor process in which it occurs..

It is 100 % Grace that we are saved....through Christ's Faithfulness.

But what is the Grace for in each context. For example a teacher may give Grace for a student to make up a test because the student was sick.
Grace could also be giving Him the notes to study with, or being able to take home the test.

In this context what is the Grace?
Grace could be Jesus's faithfulness to interceed for us, or to be the eternally SOURCE of how we are delivered [saved] in situation of this world.

So Now with this in mind, no we didn't do anything for Jesus to become the eternal source of our salvation....

He obeyed the Father and the Father did the work....
So He did something....He obeyed.....
So yes it's "syngergistic"

Our Salvation is being obedient to the Son.....[the living word] this is part of a relationship. And If you look in the old testament you would find those who obeyed the Father's word were "saved" delivered from present circumstances.

As DW says Salvation is a life......it's being caught up in what God is doing now on earth.

 

[corinth77777]

But see, if a man is born again first, without which the man can not perceive the kingdom of God, then it is entirely 100% all grace that you are saved, not of your ability or works, nothing of the man, all of God. You believe man works with God synergistically, I say the outcome is predetermined by God, not man who He saves. God when He makes you born anew, you are changed and taught by Him and all of those born anew eventually come to Christ, just as Christ says in John 3 and John 6.

I know man is born again but I haven't studied the meaning nor process in which it occurs..

It is 100 % Grace that we are saved....through Christ's Faithfulness.

But what is the Grace for in each context. For example a teacher may give Grace for a student to make up a test because the student was sick.
Grace could also be giving Him the notes to study with, or being able to take home the test.

In this context what is the Grace?
Grace could be Jesus's faithfulness to interceed for us, or to be the eternally SOURCE of how we are delivered [saved] in situation of this world.

So Now with this in mind, no we didn't do anything for Jesus to become the eternal source of our salvation....

He obeyed the Father and the Father did the work....
So He did something....He obeyed.....
So yes it's "syngergistic"

Our Salvation is being obedient to the Son.....[the living word] this is part of a relationship. And If you look in the old testament you would find those who obeyed the Father's word were "saved" delivered from present circumstances.

As DW says Salvation is a life......it's being caught up in what God is doing now on earth.

So question what is the process of being born again....what is the winds wish?

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

 

[sdowney717]

So question what is the process of being born again....what is the winds wish?

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Sorry but that is not what actually saves you.
The Holy Spirit blows Christ says as the wind, which He says the wind blows where it wills to go, so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. So the will is the Lord's will, to make whoever He desires born again, you do not control where the wind blows, and you can not control the Holy Spirit.
Being first born again is the first step to you receiving Christ as Lord.
After your are born again, the Father teaches you, you learn and come to Christ.
All who then receive Christ as Lord, God seals in the Holy Spirit.

All that God makes born again are those God the Father gives to the Son, all of them are taught and learn of the Father and all of them who learn because God teaches them come to Christ.

Jesus tells us to marvel not that you must be born again. What this means, it is out of your control and it is in His control, and it is not some complex task you must perform to be born again, this is what God does for you.

 

[sdowney717]

Already resistance to what I posted?
Why don't people believe what Jesus actually said about being born again.

 

[zoidar]

Then not everyone is in Christ the way were in Adam.

As I see it all believers are in Christ the way all sinners are in Adam. Is someone in Christ before he/she is saved?

 

[sdowney717]

As I see it all believers are in Christ the way all sinners are in Adam. Is someone in Christ before he/she is saved?

Not until they are sealed in the Holy Spirit by believing, they are in process of being saved because they are born again, so then teachable by the Holy Spirit.
Since the natural carnal mind is at enmity with the Father, they will not be teachable until born again, then they are spiritually minded.

 

[zoidar]

Well then you believe a lie, of the devil, as he is the deceiver of all mankind.

Say that to the first Christians 100-300AD.

 

[sdowney717]

Say that to the first Christians 100-300AD.

Is Christ divided? Well no, but people have believed and preached all sorts of lies from the beginning.
Explain then why all the multitude of diverse church groups and splits. They occured due to lies being preached in churches. Forming a break off group was a response those people made, whether they also who split off were deceived or not can be argued.

 

[zoidar]

Not until they are sealed in the Holy Spirit by believing, they are in process of being saved because they are born again, so then teachable by the Holy Spirit.
Since the natural carnal mind is at enmity with the Father, they will not be teachable until born again, then they are spiritually minded.

"they are in process of being saved because they are born again, so then teachable by the Holy Spirit."

My understanding is being born again is the same thing as being saved.

 

[zoidar]

Is Christ divided? Well no, but people have believed and preached all sorts of lies from the beginning.
Explain then why all the multitude of diverse church groups and splits. They occured due to lies being preached in churches. Forming a break off group was a response those people made, whether they also who split off were deceived or not can be argued.

But you follow Calvin of 1500AD ....

 

[sdowney717]

"they are in process of being saved because they are born again, so then teachable by the Holy Spirit."

My understanding is being born again is the same thing as being saved.

Essentially yes, it is, Christ said all those who are taught and learn of the Father come to Him.
So all of them are saved. My opinion is anyone born of God that has yet to receive Christ, God has their life in His hands, and what He started in them, the being born again part, He will bring to completion without any failure.

 

[sdowney717]

But you follow Calvin of 1500AD ....

Do you understand why the reformation happened?
This is all a matter of history, all of it well established.
If your a pro-test-ant then your a part of the reformation.

 

[zoidar]

Essentially yes, it is, Christ said all those who are taught and learn of the Father come to Him.
So all of them are saved. My opinion is anyone born of God that has yet to receive Christ, God has their life in His hands, and what He started in them, the being born again part, He will bring to completion without any failure.

Ok ... I believe being born again is the moment you receive Christ.

 

[sdowney717]

Ok ... I believe being born again is the moment you receive Christ.

I know you do.

 

[zoidar]

Do you understand why the reformation happened?
This is all a matter of history, all of it well established.
If your a pro-test-ant then your a part of the reformation.

Probably because the Catholic Church in many ways got corrupt?

 

[FineLinen]

Then not everyone is in Christ the way were in Adam.

 

[corinth77777]

Just a thought:

The word Jesus spoke He said was Spirit and Life.....
Does that spark any thought?