Do Your Best, and Jesus Makes Up For the Rest

[EmSw]

Sure, but why take my word for it:

Quote
4. The standard which the Pharisee used was comparative, not absolute.The Pharisee did not use the Law as his standard of measuring righteousness; rather, he compared himself with the publican. He saw himself as righteous simply because he was, in his opinion, better than the publican.

(5) The Pharisee boldly approached God, seemingly without regard for His holiness or with a sense of his own unholiness. He almost seems to expect God to be grateful for his presence and prayers.

(6) The Pharisee thanked God for nothing other than what he was, in and of himself. There was no mention of God’s graciousness, no realization of having been blessed by God. All this Pharisee thanked God for was that which he had achieved for himself.30

(7) The Pharisee did not ask God for anything, because he did not believe that he lacked anything. The Pharisee was self-sufficient. He trusted only in himself, and he found himself sufficient; thus he asked nothing of God. While some of us may ask for too much or too often, this man didn’t ask at all.

(8) This Pharisee not only saw himself as fully complying with the law, but he actually thought he had gone beyond it.31 The law did not require all that this Pharisee claims to have done for God in the keeping of the law, with respect to his outward acts of religious worship and service.32 Here is the epitome of arrogance. The law was given as a standard of righteousness, to show all men they are sinners. The law presents men with an impossible standard, which shows that works cannot save and that men must cast themselves upon the mercy and grace of God. But this Pharisee not only gets an “A” in obedience to the law, he thinks he has an “A+.”

(9) This Pharisee is overflowing with self-love but is desperately lacking in love for God and love toward man. In our day we are being taught and told that man’s problem is that he thinks too little of himself. Low self-esteem has been identified by some as the cause of virtually every human malady. This Pharisee has more than his fair share of self-love, but he has all too little love for either God or man. Those who tell us that we must first love ourselves, before we can love God or our fellow-man, may need to look again at their creed.

The tax-collector is just the opposite. He seems to have avoided public notice, and his only audience so far as he is concerned is God. He dares not look up to heaven. He knows he is a sinner33, and he is genuinely repentant. He is one of the blessed who presently “mourns,” as our Lord has said in the Sermon on the Mount (34 The Pharisee will go home just as he came, proud, self-righteous, and condemned. The penitent tax-collector will go home justified, because he has come to God as a sinner on the basis of His character—His grace, His mercy—and His provision (of salvation through atonement).

56. Piety, Persistence, Penitence, and Prayer (Luke 18:1-14)

Now you know how Zecharias and Elizabeth were found blameless.

And quit using the text that says all men are sinners to prove total depravity. Paul was explaining to the competing factions, Jews and Gentiles, how both were bound over to disobedience, one by the law, the other by the conscience. Each was trying to show why they were included in the body of Christ. One through descent, (we are Abraham's seed!) the other through primacy ( The TEMPLE was destroyed!).

Another thing I see, is the way people tell others they don't understand. Like the Pharisee, they say, "thank you God that I understand, and that 'tax collector' over there does not understand".

 

[EmSw]

No, not really.

“though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3:4-6‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Paul's point wasn't that he thought he was perfect, but rather that he kept the law in a fashion that he could not be blamed. Iow, he did the required sacrifices for sins, etc.

Thank you Hammster. I think you see what blameless means.

 

[amariselle]

Sure, but why take my word for it:

Quote
4. The standard which the Pharisee used was comparative, not absolute.The Pharisee did not use the Law as his standard of measuring righteousness; rather, he compared himself with the publican. He saw himself as righteous simply because he was, in his opinion, better than the publican.

(5) The Pharisee boldly approached God, seemingly without regard for His holiness or with a sense of his own unholiness. He almost seems to expect God to be grateful for his presence and prayers.

(6) The Pharisee thanked God for nothing other than what he was, in and of himself. There was no mention of God’s graciousness, no realization of having been blessed by God. All this Pharisee thanked God for was that which he had achieved for himself.30

(7) The Pharisee did not ask God for anything, because he did not believe that he lacked anything. The Pharisee was self-sufficient. He trusted only in himself, and he found himself sufficient; thus he asked nothing of God. While some of us may ask for too much or too often, this man didn’t ask at all.

(8) This Pharisee not only saw himself as fully complying with the law, but he actually thought he had gone beyond it.31 The law did not require all that this Pharisee claims to have done for God in the keeping of the law, with respect to his outward acts of religious worship and service.32 Here is the epitome of arrogance. The law was given as a standard of righteousness, to show all men they are sinners. The law presents men with an impossible standard, which shows that works cannot save and that men must cast themselves upon the mercy and grace of God. But this Pharisee not only gets an “A” in obedience to the law, he thinks he has an “A+.”

(9) This Pharisee is overflowing with self-love but is desperately lacking in love for God and love toward man. In our day we are being taught and told that man’s problem is that he thinks too little of himself. Low self-esteem has been identified by some as the cause of virtually every human malady. This Pharisee has more than his fair share of self-love, but he has all too little love for either God or man. Those who tell us that we must first love ourselves, before we can love God or our fellow-man, may need to look again at their creed.

The tax-collector is just the opposite. He seems to have avoided public notice, and his only audience so far as he is concerned is God. He dares not look up to heaven. He knows he is a sinner33, and he is genuinely repentant. He is one of the blessed who presently “mourns,” as our Lord has said in the Sermon on the Mount (34 The Pharisee will go home just as he came, proud, self-righteous, and condemned. The penitent tax-collector will go home justified, because he has come to God as a sinner on the basis of His character—His grace, His mercy—and His provision (of salvation through atonement).

56. Piety, Persistence, Penitence, and Prayer (Luke 18:1-14)

Now you know how Zecharias and Elizabeth were found blameless.

And quit using the text that says all men are sinners to prove total depravity. Paul was explaining to the competing factions, Jews and Gentiles, how both were bound over to disobedience, one by the law, the other by the conscience. Each was trying to show why they were included in the body of Christ. One through descent, (we are Abraham's seed!) the other through primacy ( The TEMPLE was destroyed!).

Bottom line, we are saved by grace through faith, not works.

The Pharisee was self-righteous, in his pride bringing all his works and obedience to God, as though that justified Him. The tax collecter however, knew he was a sinner and that only God in His mercy could save. So, he humbled himself and cried out to God.

It was the faith of the tax-collecter that resulted in his being justified before God.

As for Zechariah and Elizabeth, and every other human being who has ever lived, it's the same.

Those who choose to bring their "wonderful" self-righteous works to God will not be justified. It is Christ's work alone that saves us.

 

[amariselle]

Scripture says Zecharias and Elizabeth were blameless. Deal.

I never said they weren't. The question is, why were they blameless? You think it is because they were perfect, I disagree.

In any case, I'm done discussing this. It is clear you are intent on arguing,
and making false accusations. If that is how you would like to spend your time, that's your choice, but I'm not going to engage in such fruitless and pointless "discussion" any longer.

It is profiting no one.

God bless.

 

[PeaceB]

God's standard is absolute perfection

No, you contradict Scripture, which states: "All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death."

Bottom line, we are saved by grace through faith, not works.

No, you contradict Scripture, which states:

"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

"He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

"But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

 

[amariselle]

No, you contradict Scripture, which states: "All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death."

You need to understand that verse in context. It is not saying that there is a particular sin that if committed will not result in death. The Bible clearly says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) there are no exceptions. This is why we need Jesus Christ our Saviour.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

Here are some of the surrounding verses to the verse you quoted:

"He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." - 1 John 5:10-18

Do you understand what that verse means, in context?

It is clear from these verses (and you can read all the verses of 1 John 5) that when we believe, we have the Son, are born of God (born again) and do not sin (the inner man/new creation in Christ is without sin). Further more, as it says, if we believe on the name of the Son, we can know we have eternal life. In contrast, if we believe not, we make God a liar.

When we see a "brother" (a brother or sister in Christ is one who is already saved) sin a sin not unto death (their sin does not cause them to lose salvation, because as the Scripture says, we can know we have eternal life when we believe on the Son) then we are to pray for our brother (or sister) that God would help that person.

An unbeliever (unsaved) is not referred to as a "brother". This indicates these verses speak of praying for each other as brothers and sisters when we struggle and mess up. We still know, however, that we will not lose our salvation, it is a gift, given by God to all who believe. Notice how many times "believe" is used in the verses above.

Bottom line, we are saved by believing on the Son. Thereafter, if we sin, it does not lead to death, only unbelief does, because if we do not believe, we reject Jesus and make God a liar.

No, you contradict Scripture, which states:

"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Again, context. James has caused a lot of people a lot of confusion (myself included). However, James is not writing about being justified to God by works, but rather, of being justified in the eyes of other people.

Faith without works is dead because no one can see any evidence of it. If you're not living out your faith, you are just talking the talk and not walking the walk, and others will very likely dismiss you as entirely empty and insincere. As such, they may very well not come to saving faith in Christ themselves. Our works should be part of our witness in sharing the Gospel.

"He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

So, what is "obeying the truth"?

Is the truth not Jesus Christ and the Gospel of salvation? (Which Scripture tells us repeatedly must be believed) When we do believe, we receive Christ's righteousness and His finished "work."

How does the wrath of God remain upon someone?

Because they reject the Son, Jesus Christ. Because they do not believe.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Yes, these verses were probably the ones that caused me the most worry. I just couldn't understand how they fit in with all those other verses that make it absolutely clear that our works do not save us.

Again, context is everything. If you read the entire story here, you will see that Jesus separates the sheep from the goats before He says anything about who has done or not done the good works He describes. The point is, He knows who are His, and that is not based on works, but on faith. The works He lists are evidences, things they walked in because they love Him, works which the goats, who do not love Him, and who have not believed, lack.

Please read carefully. Jesus does not use the works or lack thereof to determine who is a sheep and who is a goat, He already knows. He is simply commending the sheep on all they did for the "least of these" and therefore for Him. (The opposite in the case of the goats.)

Our good works don't save us, they are the result of our salvation, when we walk in those good works He has prepared for us.

"But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

I'll have to get back to those last two verses later. I'm going to do some more careful study.

I will say this however. The Bible is clear, over and over again that we do not earn our salvation.

Read Romans 4, Galatians 5, Hebrews 4 and Hebrews 11.

Also, read the words of Jesus in John 3:14-18.

God bless.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Bottom line, we are saved by grace through faith, not works.

The Pharisee was self-righteous, in his pride bringing all his works and obedience to God, as though that justified Him. The tax collecter however, knew he was a sinner and that only God in His mercy could save. So, he humbled himself and cried out to God.

It was the faith of the tax-collecter that resulted in his being justified before God.

As for Zechariah and Elizabeth, and every other human being who has ever lived, it's the same.

Those who choose to bring their "wonderful" self-righteous works to God will not be justified. It is Christ's work alone that saves us.

Thereby disproving the teaching that no one is righteous. Those who are loyal, agree with God on the truth of His Law, agree they need to ask for mercy for not observing the Law perfectly, through offerings and prayer, are blameless, found righteous and are justified.

Calvinism uses the teaching meant to deflate the pride of both Gentile (they thought that they had been called off the bench, put into play because of their performance in the coaching sessions) and the Jew (who banked on the word of God not ever failing, God always brought Israel back from exile) to teach total depravity. Erroneously.

Glad you finally understood the parable.

 

[amariselle]

Thereby disproving the teaching that no one is righteous. Those who are loyal, agree with God on the truth of His Law, agree they need to ask for mercy for not observing the Law perfectly, through offerings and prayer, are blameless, found righteous and are justified.

Calvinism uses the teaching meant to deflate the pride of both Gentile (they thought that they had been called off the bench, put into play because of their performance in the coaching sessions) and the Jew (who banked on the word of God not ever failing, God always brought Israel back from exile) to teach total depravity. Erroneously.

Glad you finally understood the parable.

Actually, I'm not a Calvinist, nor am I in any way in agreement with many of its core tenants. But that's another topic altogether.

We are not righteous in and of ourselves, that's the whole point. The Pharisee thought he was, and so he boasted in himself and his works, even despising the tax collector, thanking God he wasn't like him.

Rather, we need Christ's perfect righteousness. The tax collector knew this. He knew how much he needed a Saviour, because he could not save himself. So he cried out to God in desperation, asking for mercy. He, therefore, went away justified, because he put all his faith in God to save him. The Pharisee however was not justified because he had looked to himself and his own "righteousness."

 

[Wordkeeper]

Actually, I'm not a Calvinist, nor am I in any way in agreement with many of its core tenants. But that's another topic altogether.

We are not righteous in and of ourselves, that's the whole point. The Pharisee thought he was, and so he boasted in himself and his works, even despising the tax collector, thanking God he wasn't like him.

Rather, we need Christ's perfect righteousness. The tax collector knew this. He knew how much he needed a Saviour, because he could not save himself. So he cried out to God in desperation, asking for mercy. He, therefore, went away justified, because he put all his faith in God to save him. The Pharisee however was not justified because he had looked to himself and his own "righteousness."

You didn't comment on this, which is what the commentator and I analyzed and decided was the Pharisee's error, because it destroys your view that one can't be justified by the Law, the Old Covenant:

Quote
The law presents men with an impossible standard, which shows that works cannot save and that men must cast themselves upon the mercy and grace of God. But this Pharisee not only gets an “A” in obedience to the law, he thinks he has an “A+.”

Don't forget, Scripture says the Law was given to solve the problem of transgressions. If this is how the law solves the problem, then Old Covenant believers are saved, guarded by the Law. Which is what I said. Not "People can be perfect". A false accusation.

 

[amariselle]

You didn't comment on this, which is what the commentator and I analyzed and decided was the Pharisee's error, because it destroys your view that one can't be justified by the Law, the Old Covenant:

Quote
The law presents men with an impossible standard, which shows that works cannot save and that men must cast themselves upon the mercy and grace of God. But this Pharisee not only gets an “A” in obedience to the law, he thinks he has an “A+.”

Don't forget, Scripture says the Law was given to solve the problem of transgressions. If this is how the law solves the problem, then Old Covenant believers are saved, guarded by the Law. Which is what I said. Not "People can be perfect". A false accusation.

Let's put aside personal opinion and see what the Bible says in regard to people being justified by the Law.

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." - Galatians 2:16-21

Read all of Galatians. It is a wonderful letter that makes it absolutely clear, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we are not justified and cannot be justified by the Law. Paul knew what he was talking about, having been a "Pharisee of the Pharisees."

Also read Romans 4 and Hebrews 4 and Hebrews 11 (the "Hall of Faith) All those spoken of in the OT who found favour with God did so because of their faith. They trusted that all God's promises were true and would come to pass, especially those of the coming Messiah. No one has ever been saved by keeping the Law because even if you can keep it outwardly, the heart is wicked and so we fall far short. As Jesus said, even hate is murder and lust is adultery. Whoever offends in one point, offends in all.

It is only by faith in Christ and His perfect righteousness that we are saved. We are justified before God because of what Christ has done.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but by Him. The way is narrow.

 

[Blade]

Well Jimmy if your asking the world then YES. But what you ask is not written. How in the WORLD can it get any better then CHRIST DYING for the world as our bother said.. Behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. So.. in our Fathers eyes we are 100% pure holy just.. because we believe in Yeshua.

Some have not searched on a verse in the word... its NOT how Jesus meant it. Thats all i will say

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Some have not searched on a verse in the word... its NOT how Jesus meant it. Thats all i will say

I'm not sure what you mean by the above.