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Do you want to see Intelligent Design taught in universities and schools?

Can God learn or in a sense "evolve?"

  • Absolutely not..... this is blasphemy!

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Yes....

    Votes: 7 21.9%
  • No.....

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • God always knew everything about everything....and has no need to learn.

    Votes: 19 59.4%

  • Total voters
    32

Monk Brendan

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Word has it that there are 4.3 TRILLION USA Petro Dollars out there floating around.

Some people are calling for them to be dumped on the markets to devalue the USA Dollar.

I believe that we are all set up for those funds to be diverted to the Bride of Messiah for a massive push at this time that will come to be known as the Great Awakening.

Pastor Shane Warren shared a visionary dream on the Sid Roth program back in 2012 in which he was shown that the time was coming when governments would come to the church......... for assistance with problems that governments had no idea how to begin to address.

Could it be that soon the best schools... the most well funded..... will be backed up by churches again?????

Which word, where? First of all, Petrodollars are still US Dollars. It would be next to impossible to dump them on the market. A dollar is a dollar is a dollar. The only way that you could "dump" them on the market would be to give away bundles of $100,000 packets for free. And even that would not destabilize the dollar. The police first, and then the FBI, then the SEC and all sorts of alphabet soup would be down on you before close of business on the first day.
 
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Monk Brendan

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The magnitude of fundamental or nearly fundamental energy X The Law of Complexity Consciousness = The Evolution of Intelligence in ETERNITY in the past. (It is illogical to confine Evolution to less than 4.5 billion years, (the age of the earth)/ (A Theistic version of the Cyclic Model of the Universe / Multiverse which would be quite a contrast from the Atheistic / Agnostic version of it that Stephen Hawking Ph. D. gives in chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe).

Let's be real! God (The Triune God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit) created the universe, and all that is within it.

But your semi-mathematical formula talks off Eternity in the past. ETERNITY means NO TIME. God does not exist WITHIN the framework of Time. Never has, never will. So saying something like Evolution began more than the age of the earth is to totally misunderstand God.

I happen to believe that when God created life on the Earth, He set up the pattern and watched how the creatures would grow. Darwin described the changes that happened, and as far as his physical findings, I would say he was mostly right.

He was wrong about random selection, though, because behind everything, God was behind the scenes, working to make this planet green, with an atmosphere rich in oxygen, making sure that when it came time to introduce humanity into the mix, it would be a good planet.

Why did the dinosaurs die? The most common theory today is a giant meteorite hit the earth--we can still probe the crater today--that made the dinosaurs die, by rendering the earth unfit for them to exist. We also hear that small mammals survived, and evolved, and continued to grow. And on and on the story goes, until we arrive at one male human being and one female human being, which God breathed into them an immortal soul.

Now, what is so hard about that? But as I said in a previous post, faux math formulae of how God did things are just wrong.
 
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DennisTate

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Which word, where? First of all, Petrodollars are still US Dollars. It would be next to impossible to dump them on the market. A dollar is a dollar is a dollar. The only way that you could "dump" them on the market would be to give away bundles of $100,000 packets for free. And even that would not destabilize the dollar. The police first, and then the FBI, then the SEC and all sorts of alphabet soup would be down on you before close of business on the first day.

I will send you a personal message with the link to the copy of the original message that I was given a few months ago........

and I will leave you with this prediction from Pastor Shane Warren from 2012....
 
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DennisTate

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Let's be real! God (The Triune God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit) created the universe, and all that is within it.

But your semi-mathematical formula talks off Eternity in the past. ETERNITY means NO TIME. God does not exist WITHIN the framework of Time. Never has, never will. So saying something like Evolution began more than the age of the earth is to totally misunderstand God.

I happen to believe that when God created life on the Earth, He set up the pattern and watched how the creatures would grow. Darwin described the changes that happened, and as far as his physical findings, I would say he was mostly right.

He was wrong about random selection, though, because behind everything, God was behind the scenes, working to make this planet green, with an atmosphere rich in oxygen, making sure that when it came time to introduce humanity into the mix, it would be a good planet.

Why did the dinosaurs die? The most common theory today is a giant meteorite hit the earth--we can still probe the crater today--that made the dinosaurs die, by rendering the earth unfit for them to exist. We also hear that small mammals survived, and evolved, and continued to grow. And on and on the story goes, until we arrive at one male human being and one female human being, which God breathed into them an immortal soul.

Now, what is so hard about that? But as I said in a previous post, faux math formulae of how God did things are just wrong.

Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong introduced me to the theory that the dinosaurs may have died at that first casting down of Satan to the earth some time previous to the creation of Adam and Eve.
 
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DennisTate

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I have no problem with ID. I believe it myself. But if you want to have ID taught in schools, then you either have to get a majority of people in each state to change the law saying that Darwin MUST be taught, or you must have enough money to build schools all around the country that will teach ID (but they will still have to teach Darwin--that's the law). Either way, it will beggar all of the churches, all of the rich donors, etc. I do not have that money. Do you?

I could be wrong... but I can't help but suspect that there could be a connection between that 4.3 Trillion Petro-Dollars with the fact that Rabbi Judah ben Samuel predicted that 1917, 1967 and 2017 would be Jubilee years.

Please pray about those 4.3 trillion that they be diverted into setting captives free........ feeding the hungry...... educating the poor.......... and that the will of God be done with them.......
 
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DennisTate

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Please explain, "GOD EVOLVED BUT ADAM AND EVE WERE CREATED."

I could be wrong but the seeming correlation between String Theory with near death experience accounts has me wondering if NDE accounts are very often examples of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus keeping his promise to speak plainly of the Father...... in the future.

If.... String Theory is largely accurate then.......
fundamental or nearly fundamental energy may have existed for long time before the lower energetic levels were INVENTED!

So.... even if some variation of four dimensional space time has already existed for ten trillion years........ still that leaves infinite time before...... ten trillion years in the past. (For the record the piece of pie theory takes the age of this universe only back to about two hundred billion years).

Adam and Eve on the other hand were indeed created perhaps as recent as six or seven thousand years ago.......
partly as a response to the rebellion of one third of the angels.

God is working on...... "the restoration of all things."
 
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Monk Brendan

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Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong

Garner Ted Armstrong doesn't even believe that Jesus is God! Get a grip, Dennis, Stay away from him and others like him. Rather, learn who someone is, first, and find out their views about Christ before sending any money to anyone.
 
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CrystalDragon

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Matthew 16:23a But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan:

Was Jesus calling Peter "Satan"? or was Jesus addressing Satan in Peter?


Neither. "Satan" is also just used as a term in Hebrew, "ha-satan" meaning "adversary". Jesus wasn't saying Peter was the devil, or that Peter was possessed, he was saying that Peter was opposing what Jesus was saying.
 
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DennisTate

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Garner Ted Armstrong doesn't even believe that Jesus is God! Get a grip, Dennis, Stay away from him and others like him. Rather, learn who someone is, first, and find out their views about Christ before sending any money to anyone.

People tend to exaggerate accusations........
I listened to Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong from 1972 to the year 2002 or so and he believed firmly that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus was somehow the Word - Logos incarnated as a human being.

He believed that as the incarnate Word / Logos the life of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus was actually worth more than all of us humans combined... thus his ability to pay off all our debts simultaneously........

A related question did come up..... was the Word -Logos within Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus from birth or...... did the Word - Logos descend on him like a dove at the baptism by John.

I personally lean toward the Word -Logos descending on him like a dove when he was baptized......... but I can't quite remember but I think that Garner Ted believed he had the spirit of Moshiach from birth........


I had rheumatoid arthritis from when I was fourteen, (1973) until a few months after being anointed with oil and prayed for by two Worldwide Church of God pastors.......... the paltry sums of money that I was able to send in over those years was a token in comparison to having been healed from arthritis........ (1980 or 1981).. ... at the Festival of Tabernacles in P. E. I.
 
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DennisTate

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Garner Ted Armstrong doesn't even believe that Jesus is God! Get a grip, Dennis, Stay away from him and others like him. Rather, learn who someone is, first, and find out their views about Christ before sending any money to anyone.

On the other side of things.... it is my firm belief that if Mr. Garner Ted Armstrong and his dad could pass on a message at this time it would be to say that they are sorry for their instances of exaggerated accusations at other churches.......
that they had became very competitive with.

Just as Democrats and Republicans can really get angry with each other.... so also... the various denominations have gotten into a mentality against each other that is not at all what Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would want us to have.

When Garner Ted Armstrong split from his dad in 1978, his friend Pastor Ron Dart actually encouraged members of the Church of God International to feel free to attend other churches on Sunday..... after attending services on Saturday........

... that was a much better approach than I personally ever saw applied in the WWCG.

With that in mind I did church hop for the decade of the 1990's and it was a truly positive experience......

Pastor Rick Joyner has written something that to my thinking would be much along the line of what Mr. Garner Ted Armstrong and his dad would want to pass on to officials in other churches at this time...... if they could......


The Final Quest [English] Rick Joyner

Pastor Rick Joyner.....

The Faithful

I was filled with love for these soldiers, many of whom were women and children. Their armor was a mess, and they were covered in blood, but they had not quit. In fact, they were still cheerful and encouraged. I told them that they were deserving of more honor than I was, because they had borne the greatest burden of the battle, and had held their ground. They seemed not to believe me, but appreciated that I would say it. However, I really felt that it was true.

Every level on the mountain had to be occupied or the vultures that were left would come and foul it with vomit and excrement until it was difficult to stand on. Most of the ledges were occupied by soldiers who I recognized to be from different denominations or movements which emphasized the truth of the level they were defending. I was embarrassed by the attitude I had maintained toward some of these groups. I had considered some of them out of touch and backslidden at best, but here they were fighting faithfully against a terrible onslaught of the enemy. Their defense of these positions had probably enabled me to keep climbing as I had.

Some of these levels were situated so that there was a view of a good part of the mountain or battlefield, but some were so isolated that the soldiers on them could only see their own position, and seemed not to even know about the rest of the battle raging. They were often so wounded from the slander and accusations that they would be resistant when someone came down to them from a higher level and encouraged them to climb higher. However, when some began to come down from the top reflecting the glory of the Lord, they listened with great joy, and soon began to climb themselves with courage and resolve. As I beheld all of this, Wisdom did not say much, but he seemed very interested in my reactions.

Reality Discovered
 
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AV1611VET

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Neither. "Satan" is also just used as a term in Hebrew, "ha-satan" meaning "adversary". Jesus wasn't saying Peter was the devil, or that Peter was possessed, he was saying that Peter was opposing what Jesus was saying.
What is "Satan" capitalized then?

Matthew 16:23a But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan:
 
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CrystalDragon

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What is "Satan" capitalized then.

Matthew 16:23a But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan:

Because "Satan" simply meant "adversary". It was used as just a way of saying Peter was being an adversary at the time. Jesus was speaking of his fulfillment as the Messiah and how he would be sacrificed, which wasn't in line with what Peter thought the Messiah would be, which was a conquering warrior who would cause the enemy kingdoms to fall.
 
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SBC

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There you are cherrypicking again.

No - I am giving a specific reference to the name Lucifer, who was in Heaven, and then not, that Scripture itself reveals.

Isaiah 14:12-15 is the selection of verses that everyone has quoted as a whisper-down-the-lane thing who claim they know what it means because someone told them what it means. It's not about Satan AT ALL. If you actually read the surrounding verses, ALL of them, and not just verses 12-15 that are quoted so much and so misinformed that I'm getting tired of having to explain it...

1 For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.


If you actually read the verses and not just regurgitate the oft-quoted ones, it's clear that it was all a proverb taken up against a Babylonian king ("Morning Star" was used by the way for anyone who had a high position, including Pharaoh and Jesus himself). The king was arrogant and saw him as being greater than everyone else, and mistreated his people, but he would soon be out of power and be seen as no more than the flawed arrogant human that he was.

"Lucifer" is just a proverb-title meaning "Morning Star" given to a king of Babylon. Not Satan. Not a fallen angel. Not a rebellious spirit. Nothing supernatural. Nothing more or less than an arrogant king who saw himself as greater than anyone else.

The book of Isaiah reveals much information concerning those with POWER -
Christ - Lucifer - Earthly Kings - Earthly Kingdoms -AS well as those who submit to God and reject God, and the consequences thereof being; salvation and judgements.

How you determined Lucifer refers to the "king of Babylon", is pretty inventive, since the king of Babylon was not IN Heaven or Cast down from Heaven.

14 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

TWO in Scripture have been referenced as the "morning stars";
Jesus AND Lucifer
Christ Jesus IS the Power of God.
Christ Jesus IS further identified as the "BRIGHT Morning Star".
And further; Scripture teaches MEN who overcome the world receive the Bright Morning Star -

Which IS the Power of God, which is Christ......NOT Lucifer, NOT Satan, and certainly NOT a Babylonian king.

I find nothing in your response that supports a Biblical position to reject that Lucifer is Satan.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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Would you like to see Effective...... or Ineffective
anti-suicide prevention methods applied for our young people?

(Yes... that is a rhetorical question).

I am almost certain that it was in his book, Transformed By The Light, Dr. Melvin Morse
where I read about a study done on people who had recently attempted suicide.........

One group was simply given near death experience accounts to read.......

Zero people from that group attempted suicide again during the duration of the study......

Dr. Morse felt that NDE accounts had the potential to revolutionize the treatment for people who are suicidal.

Why?

His guess was that giving people a reason to believe that some logical plan is being worked out in their lives...... can bring their mood up above the level where they attempt suicide.........

I wonder could a similar treatment reduce the tendency to drown our sorrows and anger in drugs and alcohol????????????

Just in brief - seems to me people of any age who is contemplating, leaning toward, dwelling on suicide should seek aid from someone skilled in dealing with such issues.
Personally I do not believe that is a School Teacher.

Suicide is simply a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Anger, is a perfectly normal behavior, stretched out of proportion, as if, it is abnormal.

Pharmaceutical Drugs, in the hands of the general population, is IMO are one of the WORST guarded items, by the one, they are issued to.

Street drugs - are compounds of death - is all a person needs to know about them.
And from there, a person can choose to take them or not. There are PRISON sentences for a person choosing to engage in such participation - WHY?

Alcohol ? Same thing. I could care less how much or how little a person drinks, or what they are doing while they drink.

Same as I do not care how much a person eats, or sleeps, or dances, or plays video games....

I am baffled why so many Americans call themselves FREE, while continuously soliciting the government to make Laws AGAINST Freedom.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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You could always have started reading at verse 4, which makes it as plain as it could possibly be that the verses which follow refer to the King of Babylon.

Or I could read the whole chapter and comprehend it is speaking of those with POWER, which is not exclusive to the king of Babylon.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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lesliedellow

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Or I could read the whole chapter and comprehend it is speaking of those with POWER, which is not exclusive to the king of Babylon.

God Bless,
SBC

You can wriggle as much as you want, the poem from verse 4 onwards refers to the King of Babylon.
 
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AV1611VET

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You can wriggle as much as you want, the poem from verse 4 onwards refers to the King of Babylon.
Lucifer is the archetype, Nebuchadnezzar II is the type.

Other types of Lucifer are: Antiochus Epiphanes and Adolf Hitler.
 
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lesliedellow

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Lucifer is the archetype, Nebuchadnezzar II is the type.

Other types of Lucifer are: Antiochus Epiphanes and Adolf Hitler.

The KJV borrowed the word Lucifer from the Latin Valuate version of the Bible, where it translates a Greek word, found in the Septuagint, which means "bringer of dawn".

Lucifer is a Latin word which means "morning star" - i.e. Venus.
 
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SBC

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You can wriggle as much as you want, the poem from verse 4 onwards refers to the King of Babylon.

I am comfortable with my stance - as you also seem to be with yours.
So would you also categorize yourself as "wriggling"?

Funny!

God Bless,
SBC
 
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