Do you tithe?

[Deb4given]

.
3. it isnt a law anymore. if someone gives soley because they "have" to, then that is offensive to God i believe, becuase we are to give cheerfully as our hearts tell us. it is up to us individually to allow the Spirit to work in us, and bring ourselves, to the place where we CAN give more than He asks, willingly, and cheerfully. it's kind of a danged if you do, danged if you dont situation: dont give = disobedience, give (grudgingly) = disobedience. whereas cheerful giving = obedience is something that takes time to grow into....

And see, we are on the same page. I never ever said I don't give. We give liberally, adding it all up, probably more than when we tithed. So in this part of your statement, I agree 1000 percent.

 

[LynneClomina]

And see, we are on the same page. I never ever said I don't give. We give liberally, adding it all up, probably more than when we tithed. So in this part of your statement, I agree 1000 percent.

cool!

exceptin' you dont believe that God still asks us to give the tithe, right?

 

[muffler dragon]

This may not be the exact verse you were looking for, but I believe it is close:

1 Samuel 15
22 But Samuel replied:

"Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD ?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.

I would like to clarify one major point for everyone: I have absolutely no problem with offering or offerings. I offer up all that the L-rd desires of me when He wants it. I fail many times, but I try.
I just see a gaping hole in the idea between tithes and offerings.
A lot of what you say in your post, Lynne, is the same thing that I hear come from pastoral interpretations of Scripture. I have to admit that is partly the reason I brought all this up to you. I heard the same from the 'altar'; however, it wasn't stated with an option. No need to get into that now, but I wanted you to know that I've been on your side of the aisle. I just happen to go through the study to see if it was true or not.
Nonetheless, I thank you for sharing your heart. I appreciate it very much.
Take care,

m.d.

 

[9-iron]

It seems to me that tithing is part of the Mosiac Law. So you can't be free from part of the law and not the rest. In Deuteronomy we have listing for daily offerings, monthly offerings, offering for day of atonement, offerings for feast, etc. and tithing is including in all of this.


Second point is than in Mal. the scripture is addressing the nation of Isreal. The scripture says 'even the whole nation has withheld tithes & offerings'. Who was the nation of Isreal at the time. God's chosen people who had forsaken keeping the law. They were 'under the law' when Mal. was written. So you have to ask yourself, am I under the same law as the nation of Isreal was in when Mal. was written.

 

[muffler dragon]

What were the purposes of the three tithes?

Every Jew was required by the Levitical law to pay three tithes of his property (1) one tithe for the Levites; (2) one for the use of the temple and the great feasts; and (3) one for the poor of the land.

Let's go one by one and examine how these fit the scene today:

Levites: With the destruction of the temple in AD 70, all (or the majority thereof) ancestral records were destroyed. Therefore, there are very few known Levites today. However, should you meet one; then give them your tithe. It is a mistake to allegorize this principle with pastors today. Levites were designated through bloodline. Pastors are moved by what they believe is a calling.

Temple and feasts: The temple is destroyed. Therefore, the tithe is null and void in regards to this. Many will use this as an opportunity to claim it goes to the church building; however, once again this is a misrepresentation of Scripture. Regarding the feasts: this tithe was actually used for personal pleasure. This is seen in Deut. 14.

For the poor: this is something that can definitely be covered nowadays by simple offerings and assistance.

One major point that needs to be addressed on this as well is the fact that the tithe was not money.

I apologize for coming very forthright with this discussion and I am not attacking. I just happen to see your 'sly' mood icon and I wonder if you are trying to agitate. Therefore, please don't read into my mood and just look at the substance.

In regards to the last part, please be careful not to 'spiritualize' Israel in this sense. It is much more understandable in the actual reality of the Jewish people.

 

[LynneClomina]

It seems to me that tithing is part of the Mosiac Law. So you can't be free from part of the law and not the rest. In Deuteronomy we have listing for daily offerings, monthly offerings, offering for day of atonement, offerings for feast, etc. and tithing is including in all of this.


Second point is than in Mal. the scripture is addressing the nation of Isreal. The scripture says 'even the whole nation has withheld tithes & offerings'. Who was the nation of Isreal at the time. God's chosen people who had forsaken keeping the law. They were 'under the law' when Mal. was written. So you have to ask yourself, am I under the same law as the nation of Isreal was in when Mal. was written.

the law of tithing we are not under, but we have an obligation nonetheless: the principle was first established by Abram:

Genesis 14:17-20
17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him [Abram] at the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King's Valley), after his return from the defeat of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with him. 18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; 20 And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand." And he (Abram) gave him a tithe of all.

Hebrew 6:19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, 20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace," 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually. 4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. 5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; 6 but he whose genealogy is not derived from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 Now beyond all contradiction the lesser is blessed by the better. 8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them,
&c] That is, Melchizedek, whose genealogy or pedigree is not reckoned from the Levites, nor from any from whom they descend; his lineal descent is not the same with theirs; and so did not receive tithes by any law, as they did, but by virtue of his superiority: received tithes of Abraham; not from the people, or his brethren, but from Abraham, the father of the people of Israel, and of Levi himself: http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Comment...oftheBible/gil.cgi?book=heb&chapter=7&verse=6

People's New Testament: 4-10. How great this man was. When one so great as Abraham recognized his superiority by paying him tithes. 5. The sons of Levi. The Aaronic priesthood, all of them of the tribe of Levi. Take tithes of the people according to the law. They require the enactment of the law in order to collect tithes of the people, their own brethren. The tithes are paid, not because of their great spiritual dignity, but because the law compels it. 6. But he whose descent is not counted from them. Melchizedek, who was not of the blood of Abraham or tribe of Levi, received tithes of Abraham, not because of the law, but because of his transcendent dignity. http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/PeoplesNewTestament/pnt.cgi?book=heb&chapter=7#Heb7_06

also, Genesis 28: 20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, 21 so that I come back to my father's house in peace, then the Lord shall be my God. 22 And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."

 

[muffler dragon]

With all due respect, Lynne, I will go ahead and inform you that I disagree with how you are flowing in this train of thought.

However, I will only disclose how if you would like me to.

Please feel free to comment upon the points that I addressed in the post just prior to yours.

 

[LynneClomina]

With all due respect, Lynne, I will go ahead and inform you that I disagree with how you are flowing in this train of thought.

However, I will only disclose how if you would like me to.

Please feel free to comment upon the points that I addressed in the post just prior to yours.

hi muffler!

i pretty much did address your post in my last post.... all your points are about the tithing laws - the levitical, mosaic tithing laws. i illustrated in my post that the principle of tithing goes well beyond that, it was instituted in principle well before mt. sinai.

hebrews says that only tithing to the levites was "law", the tithe of abraham and jacob was to someone greater.... levi<(less than) abraham < the one who blessed him (melchezidek(sp?)) , of whose order Christ belongs to.... the order of melchizedek if far above the levitical law of tithing. and thus MORE is expected of us in tithing now that the levitical law has been dont away with.....Hebrews 7 covers that entirely.

 

[9-iron]

whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all,

A tenth of what? All the stuff he took in overthrowing the Sadomnites. Not once in scripture does it make reference that Abraham gave a tenth of anything of his own. { not that I have found anyway } He gave a tenth of the spoils. Big difference.

 

[LynneClomina]

A tenth of what? All the stuff he took in overthrowing the Sadomnites. Not once in scripture does it make reference that Abraham gave a tenth of anything of his own. { not that I have found anyway } He gave a tenth of the spoils. Big difference.

the greek word for "spoils" is AKROTHINION, literally "first fruits". the spoils abraham took are no different that any other first fruits.

Genesis 14:20
And blessed be God Most High , Who has delivered your enemies into your hand." He gave him a tenth of all.
14:21
The king of Sodom said to Abram, "Give the people to me and take the goods for yourself."
14:22
Abram said to the king of Sodom, "I have sworn * to the LORD God Most High , possessor of heaven and earth,
14:23
that I will not take a thread or a sandal thong or anything that is yours, for fear you would say, 'I have made Abram rich.'
14:24
"I will take nothing except what the young men have eaten, and the share of the men who went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their share."

so you see, abraham took nothing for himself of the spoils. what he tithed to melchizedek had to have been his own firstfruits.

 

[9-iron]

14:23
that I will not take a thread or a sandal thong or anything that is yours, for fear you would say, 'I have made Abram rich.'
14:24
"I will take nothing except what the young men have eaten, and the share of the men who went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their share."

Yeah, I don't agree with that. I see it as him not taking anything to himself, I still see it as him giving a tenth, allowing the men to take their share. He stated he didn't want them to say they made him rich. So he either tithed or let the other men have a share while not taking anything for himself personally. Abram was a very wealthy man, he didn't need any of the spoils.

 

[Andry]

the greek word for "spoils" is AKROTHINION, literally "first fruits". the spoils abraham took are no different that any other first fruits.

Excellent point.

Here's what I believe...(ie. over a cup of coffee, something to chat about, throw it in the trash if you don't believe it.) Do any of you wonder why (or know why) ALL the spoils of Jericho was given to the Lord? Because the spoils were a first fruits offering. That's why, after the defeat at Ai, Joshua was incensed when he learned that not all of the spoils from Jericho were given to the Lord. He understood the gravity of it.

What the Isaralites did with their first fruits (or spoils) at Jericho determined what God was going to do with the rest of the cities. So in my life, what I do with my first fruits*, or tithe, will determine what happens to the 90% left in my pocket. My obedience to my first tenth, determines the fate of the rest.

(Note: I believe there's a difference between the first fruits and the tithe, but for the purpose of this thread, it makes little difference)

And in my experience, God can do more and has done more with my 90%, than I was able to do with my 100% when I was keeping it all. So here's a charismatic cliche:

Someone will say to me, "I can't afford to tithe." I say to them, "I cannot afford not to tithe."

 

[muffler dragon]

Lynne,

Let's look at tithing as a collective. Pre-Mosaic Law and Post. Let's not make a differentiation and see where this gets us. I will be posting from a letter that I wrote to someone at one time as well. So mark that it is my writing and not someone else's.

You state: i illustrated in my post that the principle of tithing goes well beyond that, it was instituted in principle well before mt. sinai.

With this I will disagree with you, because there was no statute set up. It was a once in a lifetime event, just as Jacob's was. Moreover, with Jacob, the conditions were set by him; not G-d.

Let me give you the break down of what I had written before (Disclaimer: please forgive the 'attitude' behind what I write, it was directed to the person I originally wrote to. The attitude was in response to his own):

1) Why Abraham gave his tithe? Genesis 14: 18-20 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said: “Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.” And he gave him a tithe of all.
Abraham gave Melchizedek a tithe of the spoils from the war he just waged on the five kings. He did not give him a tithe of his own personal belongings, and there is no Biblical statement that Abraham ever tithed again.
2) Why Jacob gave his tithe? Genesis 28:20-22 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace, then the Lord shall be my God. And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to you.”
Jacob tithed strictly because of a condition he set up with God that was on his terms. And once again, there is no Biblical statement that Jacob ever tithed again.
3) Abraham and Jacob did not tithe silver, gold, or money.
4) The tithe laws were set up to provide for the Levites. They had no provision since their inheritance was the Lord. Therefore, they needed people to bring them food, clothing, and the necessities of life. Numbers 18:21,23-24, Leviticus 27:30-34, Deuteronomy 14:22-29
5) God has not given a tithe law concerning Christians. Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15
6) Christian giving is not to be made upon compulsion. 2 Corinthians 9:6-7
7) There is no Biblical record of any Christians paying tithes to Pastors or church leaders.
8) Christian ministers are not authorized by God to collect mandatory tithes for their salaries.
9) Christians that do not tithe are not robbing God. There is no command by God for Christians to tithe.
10) God forbids money to be used to pay mandatory tithe by anyone! It is animals, fruit, grain, etc.
11) Thus, it has become evident that the tithe before the law was not the same thing that people try to make a weekly or bi-weekly giving nowadays. It has no place in the Christian life of today whether it be considered a pre- or post- law device.

Now I ask you, refute these things with actual exegesis and not just presuppositional statements about what was supposedly done in principle.

I look forward to hearing your response.

m.d.

 

[Ariel]

Yes, Rhem, my husband and I tithe, and give offerings above that as well. In addition, we help out people in our family, and others.

We started tithing just to be obedient to God, but it's amazing to watch what He has done in return. It seems everytime we have increased our tithe, He has increased my husband's salary by more than even that. He is so kind, and so gracious, for He doesn't have to do this. He doesn't owe us anything--except death, and Jesus took that death on the cross. But He is so very kind and gracious to us--who don't deserve anything at all.

 

[UberLutheran]

..and while there is absolutely NOTHING charistmatic about a Lutheran, I did want to respond.

Yes, absolutely I tithe!

Time and time and time again, I've seen if I keep my part by giving back to God one tenth of what is His, anyway; what I receive back is more than I could have conceived.

My motivation is not "giving to get" -- I strongly believe if something supports and nourishes us spiritually, we have an obligation to support that thing with our money. In this case, it's my church. Sunday morning worship is the absolute high point of my week; and the things my church offers really nourish me, spiritually -- and tithing is not an obligation, AT ALL.

In the memo line on the bottom of every tithe check, I write, "For blessings received."

(Sorry if I just barged in -- and I do realize that there is NOTHING charismatic about a Lutheran, tithing is something I believe in strongly.)

 

[9-iron]

Sorry if I just barged in -- and I do realize that there is NOTHING charismatic about a Lutheran, tithing is something I believe in strongly.)

Not barging in at all IMO. Drop by anytime...

 

[Deb4given]

cool!

exceptin' you dont believe that God still asks us to give the tithe, right?

right... so I guess we are on part of the same page.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I definitely don't tithe - I couldn't if I wanted . I give where and when and how much the Lord wants me . Much freedom in that .

 

[Andrew]

Yes I tithe.

Tithe = 1/tenth or 10% so I tithe 10 percent of my monthly income.

No its not a law. Abraham (b4 the law) tithed.

 

[CoCoChiCa33]

I tithe, even tho I really dont have a steady paycheck. J/w but to those that tithe do you do it on gross or net?