Do you tithe?

[LynneClomina]

Are you advocating a cause and effect relationship with G-d?

it has nothing to do with "what you get", it has everything to do with meeting the heart of God on this issue.

obedience => peace.

 

[LynneClomina]

Once again, not completely true. Removal versus fulfillment are two totally different things. Just a comment and no intent for derailing thread.

tithing is worship. worship still stands.

 

[LynneClomina]

Should we not be bragging/boasting/proclaiming our tithing practices, especially if it's over 10%?

nobody is bragging or boasting. proclaiming (ie. stating) our tithing practices is for the purposes of the poll (statistical info) and discussion on practical application. the rest of the discussion is more on the whys and wherefores of tithing in general.

 

[muffler dragon]

it has nothing to do with "what you get", it has everything to do with meeting the heart of God on this issue.

obedience => peace.

If obedience = peace, then for those of us, who are not tithing, are you suggesting that we are walking in disobedience?

If you are, then make sure that you are 100% convinced you understand the Scriptures.

 

[muffler dragon]

tithing is worship. worship still stands.

Regrettably, you are misunderstanding why I made the statement in the first place. It was made strictly due to the principle that someone professed: that tithing is an principle from the Tanakh that still stands still while other laws are done away with.

Nonetheless, since you spoke, I would like for you to clarify how tithing is worship?

 

[rhemarob]

Regrettably, you are misunderstanding why I made the statement in the first place. It was made strictly due to the principle that someone professed: that tithing is an principle from the Tanakh that still stands still while other laws are done away with.

Nonetheless, since you spoke, I would like for you to clarify how tithing is worship?

I could see how tithing could be considered worship, its essentially saying:
God everything I have is from You and I have purposed in my heart to give
xx percent to to help further the kingdom and help the lost.

What is worship if not sacrificing something back to the Lord, we talk about the sacrifice of praise and giving part of our income certainly is a sacrifice worthy of being called praise.

 

[rhemarob]

I'm going to try to go through these in order.

Concerning Abraham, he gave according to what he had won in battle. This had nothing to do with day-to-day operations. There is only one instance recorded in the Torah of Abraham ever giving anything like this. Therefore, you cannot base this belief upon a pre-law assessment.

As for what you have written above,

For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

You are missing the fact that the tithe was of produce. It was not a monetary sum. Furthermore, this has to do with the scribes and Pharisees. They were neglecting the heart of the law. That is essentially what Yeshua was talking with them about.

As I continue through the posts, I'll respond where necessary.

I don't think you can completely discount that scripture on that basis.
It was common practice in those days to use produce and spices to buy and barter just as money is used today, giving a tenth of your spices and produce back then is exactly like giving a tenth of your income today.

 

[rhemarob]

I will try and post the link. I couldn't earlier because I am new and I didn't have enough of something.

If you really read this link, and you can show that what he says isn't right, then I will listen.
Truth

Just wondering if you went to the rest of this guys website and read the other stuff he believes.
He strongly insinuates that the pastor is not the head of the church and any church that is following the "early church structure" is a false church and leading people to a false god and his definition of an early church structure covers about all of our churches on this forum

He also has a page dedicated to his "dreams and visions" which is where he got a lot of his beliefs from.

Also goes to great lenghts and has a few website links coming against his former church and attempting to tear them down to the ground and mentions how much he dislikes his ex-wife etc.

I would beware of any information I got from this guy.

 

[LynneClomina]

If obedience = peace, then for those of us, who are not tithing, are you suggesting that we are walking in disobedience?

If you are, then make sure that you are 100% convinced you understand the Scriptures.

ok, you evidently know all about tithing, so i wont post my beliefs anymore! it's great fun to have to defend every darn thing you say, y'know???

 

[LynneClomina]

Just wondering if you went to the rest of this guys website and read the other stuff he believes.
He strongly insinuates that the pastor is not the head of the church and any church that is following the "early church structure" is a false church and leading people to a false god and his definition of an early church structure covers about all of our churches on this forum

He also has a page dedicated to his "dreams and visions" which is where he got a lot of his beliefs from.

Also goes to great lenghts and has a few website links coming against his former church and attempting to tear them down to the ground and mentions how much he dislikes his ex-wife etc.

I would beware of any information I got from this guy.

ouch. thanks for the heads up. i hadn't read it yet, and now i ain't gonna.

 

[TwistrAndy]

I tithe 10% of every thing I get. (since I don't have a job, any little piece of money that floats my way I take out 10%). And I find that it works, because I started tithing my money and the first week I was able to give .50 and after two weeks of tithing God has blessed me so much I was able to give $9.50 for tithes which means that God blessed me with $95 in one week alone! So I will always give my money with a happy heart, cause if you can't give with a happy heart then God don't want it!

 

[muffler dragon]

I don't think you can completely discount that scripture on that basis.
It was common practice in those days to use produce and spices to buy and barter just as money is used today, giving a tenth of your spices and produce back then is exactly like giving a tenth of your income today.

Dear Rhemarob:

I don't think you can substitute the authentic rendering of tithe for money. As a matter of fact there is only one statement in all of Scripture that ties tithe to money, and this had to do with conversion:

Deuteronomy 14:
Tithes
22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

I completely understand the idea of bartaring; however, the tithe was strictly a grain exchange. The tithe was instituted for the Levitical priesthood and as a celebration (as seen above). It's difficult to assume the role that it has been given nowadays.

By the way, if I have come off confrontational regarding this (as Lynne) purports, then I am extremely sorry. Hopefully, you have been able to 'read' the difference from my previous posts.

m.d.

 

[muffler dragon]

ok, you evidently know all about tithing, so i wont post my beliefs anymore! it's great fun to have to defend every darn thing you say, y'know???

Lynne:

If you have felt attacked by my questions, then I apologize. I would like for you to know that that is not my intent. I am simply asking questions to make you think. As far as knowing ALL about the tithe. No, I do not. However, I know a great deal. I have researched it in depth and consulted a number of people. Therefore, I can state certain things about it.

The reason I posted in correspondence with you was strictly because of your obedience statement. If you feel the L-rd is moving you to tithe, then by all means, please continue. However, your statement can be construed as a statement against others who do not agree. Hence, my question regarding whether you feel others (such as myself) are acting in disobedience?

I am strictly trying to press you into a mode where you watch what you type more clearly. The other day a woman addressed how a church she attended was 'dead', because they did not get up when they worshipped. There appeared to be no life in the church according to her standards. This is a dangerous presupposition to take. Salvation is between the sinner and G-d. No one else can know for sure. Your statement regarding obedience is a long the same nature. You can't know. However, if you study the Scriptures, you can find a great deal more than what is being purported. I am trying to 'irritate' to drive you to study more. Maybe if I get you or anyone else mad enough, they will really study and be pressed into G-d. Am I always an antagonist? No. However, when I brought some spirit into my words with Rhema the first time we met; I'm sure he dove into his study a little bit more. Even though, I have since repented for how I conducted myself.

Therefore, let me challenge you to dig deeper. If you choose not to; that's fine. However, please be sure to watch how you say some things in the future. That's all I ask.

m.d.

 

[rhemarob]

ok, you evidently know all about tithing, so i wont post my beliefs anymore! it's great fun to have to defend every darn thing you say, y'know???

mufflerdragon is just trying to make his point using scripture regarding what he believes, I don't think he means it as a personal attack on what you believe.

 

[rhemarob]

Dear Rhemarob:

I don't think you can substitute the authentic rendering of tithe for money. As a matter of fact there is only one statement in all of Scripture that ties tithe to money, and this had to do with conversion:

Deuteronomy 14:
Tithes
22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

I completely understand the idea of bartaring; however, the tithe was strictly a grain exchange. The tithe was instituted for the Levitical priesthood and as a celebration (as seen above). It's difficult to assume the role that it has been given nowadays.

By the way, if I have come off confrontational regarding this (as Lynne) purports, then I am extremely sorry. Hopefully, you have been able to 'read' the difference from my previous posts.

m.d.

Its fine, at least you have an articulate point of view and use some scripture to back it up , I can handle that kind of debate, we all need to debate a little more open mindedly without getting so bent out of shape over our subtle differences regarding our giving, I'm sure we all give whether we call it a tithe and do it to the letter or not so its probably mostly semantics anyway.

I have always tithed and feel that its the right thing to do for me and I feel like I've been blessed because of my giving.

I honestly haven't done a deep study on tithing but it has always felt right in my heart and made me happy.

 

[RB4580]

No, I don't tithe anymore. After actually studying the bible for myself about what God said, I learned that I am suppose to give what God lays on my heart.

Did you know that there were 3 different tithes in the bible, and one of them was suppose to be saved all year long and then you got to throw a party for your family? Bet you didn't know that, cause pastors don't preach that. Did you know that Malachi was not about you, but about the priests and THEIR robbing God?

I have been a spirit-filled Christian for 24 years, I tithed and gave, I did all that I thought I was suppose to do, and then I actually studied it out for myself. What an eye opener.

When I was doing my studies, I also came across a great website called The Truth about Tithing...something like that. It has all the scriptures and it explains it so well. When you get done reading, you won't be able to refute what you have read, it is entirely biblical, and your eyes will be open. He doesn't give his point of view very much, he just shows you in the Word how deceived we have been.

I know this is an individual thing between you and God. But, if you have been faithful with your tithe and you still aren't making it very well, don't shake your fist at God and ask Him why, because the Word is very clear.

Couldn't have said it better, I went through this a year ago and feel much better now

 

[Deb4given]

Just wondering if you went to the rest of this guys website and read the other stuff he believes.
He strongly insinuates that the pastor is not the head of the church and any church that is following the "early church structure" is a false church and leading people to a false god and his definition of an early church structure covers about all of our churches on this forum

He also has a page dedicated to his "dreams and visions" which is where he got a lot of his beliefs from.

Also goes to great lenghts and has a few website links coming against his former church and attempting to tear them down to the ground and mentions how much he dislikes his ex-wife etc.

I would beware of any information I got from this guy.

I had read his other things. The reason why I liked what he said about the tithe, was because it is the WORD. I can find many websites just like that one. I use his because of all the work he did posting them. The Word is true whether we like the guy for other things or not.

And Lynne, this is a conversation about tithe, you should be able to defend what you believe without getting upset. : )

 

[rhemarob]

I had read his other things. The reason why I liked what he said about the tithe, was because it is the WORD. I can find many websites just like that one. I use his because of all the work he did posting them. The Word is true whether we like the guy for other things or not.

And Lynne, this is a conversation about tithe, you should be able to defend what you believe without getting upset. : )

I know that same information is on other websites, it just freaked me out when I saw some of the things the guy was talking about.

 

[rhemarob]

I guess I've never looked at tithing from the standpoint of being under a curse like the O.T. law since we are redeemed from the curse.

I've always tithed from the standpoint of sewing and reaping and its worked for me.

 

[LynneClomina]

Deb, i'm not upset. i just dont want to debate. i want to converse. two entirely different things. one carries a connotation of being on two sides, and often disintegrates into "i'll prove you wrong" or "you prove me wrong". the other carries a connotation of sharing our perspectives and asking questions of each other without confronting each other for information.

i just prefer the latter.

muffler, (keeping what i've just said in mind, ok?) i will share with you my feelings on the tithe.

yes, i do feel it is disobedience to not tithe. that being said i will temper it with these points:
1. it does no good for me to tell someone that i believe they are being disobedient, becuase if someone is quite sure they dont want to/ believe in tithing, it just makes them mad. it's God's role to convict, not mine. my role is simply to share my experience of what it is like for me to worship God in this way.
2. how you understand the tithe is going to affect how much and in what matter you tithe, but the important thing is to seek God about it and be obedient to your conscience.
3. it isnt a law anymore. if someone gives soley because they "have" to, then that is offensive to God i believe, becuase we are to give cheerfully as our hearts tell us. it is up to us individually to allow the Spirit to work in us, and bring ourselves, to the place where we CAN give more than He asks, willingly, and cheerfully. it's kind of a danged if you do, danged if you dont situation: dont give = disobedience, give (grudgingly) = disobedience. whereas cheerful giving = obedience is something that takes time to grow into....

i'm not particularly concerned with making my tithe identical to how they tithed in the OT (ie. 23.5% or whatever).... the principle i follow is that the tithe (tenth) of my firstfruits (and seeing as how i dont have an orchard, all my firstfruits are money!) is the MINIMUM to give, becuase it is nothing less that what God deserves. our of the 100% that He gives me, He asks me to give Him back only 10% by bringing it into the storehouse - where i get my spiritual food from - which is my church. that leaves the other 90% for me! for me, that makes 10% seem like such a small amount. He is such a good God, and blesses me beyond, way beyond, the measure that i give back. so i WANT to give. and i am thus a cheerful giver. if i want to give $100 of my grocery money to bless someone, and then i start talking myself out of it, i go no, i give what is in my heart to give, and trust God to take care of me. and He has never failed me, despite the work i need in stewardship in other areas. He is overwhelmingly good to me. i want to give.
extravagently.

there is a scripture in the OT somewhere that talks about how someone's sacrifice, when done without the right motive was actually offensive to God.... anyone know where it is??