Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

[redleghunter]

Yes these things happen, but truly when you look at it, you say 'a wise man leaves an inheritance for children', do you say that money from an insurance firm is an inheritance? I disagree. I see nothing in the bible that says He blesses us with insurance money. Men who walked in His ways were blessed with land etc That family could be blessed by walking with Him and it's no shame to be poor
Debt is a big problem these days. People take on too much. When they sell their homes they don't get enough to cover the loans.

Since most of the world population does not own land to bequeath, yes life insurance is an inheritance to provide for widows and orphans.

Paul makes it clear that families are to see to their widows and children to their widowed mother. Not toss them in state run facilities while the family takes a holiday in the Bahamas.

Have you refused your state provided health insurance?

 

[redleghunter]

The OT also contains an eschatological hope "beating the swords into ploughshares". And when Jesus does catch them using their swords, as I pointed out, he heals the one whom they attack. It's again, not altogether clear from the text that Jesus was telling his followers to carry weapons.

I truly hear you. We are not to be trigger happy and look for conflict. My point is there is still evil in this world and we have a right to defend ourselves and those who cannot defend themselves.

I hear you and yes Peace is the way of God's Grace.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I truly hear you. We are not to be trigger happy and look for conflict. My point is there is still evil in this world and we have a right to defend ourselves and those who cannot defend themselves.

I hear you and yes Peace is the way of God's Grace.

You Americans and your "rights"... I honestly find all this talk of liberty and freedom rather crude. But that's the Eastern European in me.

 

[redleghunter]

I don't think there's such a thing as 'a better Christian' All have their strengths and all their weaknesses Some are in the open and some are hidden. We often hear of 'this wonderful man of God' etc but really I don't think there's any difference between those that have genuinely given their lives to Jesus' The Great men of the bible were mainly murderers. I don't agree with anyone 'looking down on someone either

I see your point but Jesus plainly told us to 'turn the other cheek' He didn't advocate violence towards another person - and what's the point of having a gun if you have no intention of ever using it? Having a gun tells a person, 'watch out - I have a gun here- that can kill you' and a Christian isn't needing any faith for protection from Jesus. I've read of people shooting intruders without any investigation and getting away with it! The law protects them to do this. Intruders rarely break-in to murder someone. The law is encouraging the use of arms and going by a lot of videos I've seen they might even be creating a civil war which is very sad. America was always known to us as 'the lucky country' They were funny generous and rich people which is not always the case now. A Civil War would be disastrous

Exodus 22:2-32 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 "If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed.

 

[jiminpa]

I don't get it, the notion that Americans need more guns is ludicrous to me. Most guns which exist on the black market are there because of straw purchasing. If there were no guns on sale there'd be less guns on the black market, it would seem...

Do you even know how many Americans do and do not own guns? We don't all walk around just shooting at each other all day, well except in the cites where guns are illegal and that pretty much does happen in those places. I don't even flinch when I hear gun fire where I live, because I am confident that the gun is being fired responsibly and not at a human. I get nervous in some of the more gun restricted areas just being there, because the chance of me getting shot is within the realm of possibility, just for being there.

 

[jiminpa]

You Americans and your "rights"... I honestly find all this talk of liberty and freedom rather crude. But that's the Eastern European in me.

Yes, because slavery and oppression are much better. All through the Bible the only captivity that is not painted in the darkest picture is us voluntarily making ourselves captive to God. What if in your desire to be ruled you are conquered by the godless? I want only one ruler and it isn't Obama or myself.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Do you even know how many Americans do and do not own guns? We don't all walk around just shooting at each other all day, well except in the cites where guns are illegal and that pretty much does happen in those places. I don't even flinch when I hear gun fire where I live, because I am confident that the gun is being fired responsibly and not at a human. I get nervous in some of the more gun restricted areas just being there, because the chance of me getting shot is within the realm of possibility, just for being there.

I'm not having a go at the responsible American gun owners except in so far as they should get rid of their guns in the hopes of an all-round safer and better society... The fact is that straw purchase sales account for the majority of illegal gun acquisitions in the US and it can be handled easily enough by simply closing down shop and initiating a buy back scheme, like was done brilliantly by John Howard in Australia.

 

[redleghunter]

I don't know about conspiracy theories I've noticed a lot of videos by the Gun Lobby preparing for war they have been around for
a long time. I thought it was conspiracy but these people are really serious in their preparations

You should be more worried about the youngsters squelching free speech on US university campuses.

There is only free speech there for those they agree with.

A product of the Marxists who are in charge of our universities. Fear them. Marxists take guns away until they are the only ones who have them.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Yes, because slavery and oppression are much better. All through the Bible the only captivity that is not painted in the darkest picture is us voluntarily making ourselves captive to God. What if in your desire to be ruled you are conquered by the godless? I want only one ruler and it isn't Obama or myself.

It's one extreme or the other for you lot... It's incessant talk of "personal liberties" and "absolute individual rights" or it's "slavery" this and "captivity" that.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

A product of the Marxists who are in charge of our universities. Fear them. Marxists take guns away until they are the only ones who have them.

Does Noam Chomsky own a gun? I didn't think he did...

 

[rubyinprogress]

Since guns did not exist when Jesus walked the earth, we would have to extrapolate. Did Jesus condone his follows owning a lethal weapon? The answer is YES. Swords were clearly weapons. They don't serve another purpose. In Luke 22 Jesus encouraged his follows to purchase swords.
35 Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered.
36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

There are also countless examples in the Old Testament of God condoning warfare, self-defense, and defense of one's family. I think this is one of those issues that falls under Ecclesiastes 3. There is a time to kill and a time to heal. I'm not advocating senseless violence, but the context of Jesus telling the disciples to purchase swords and then reprimanding Peter for cutting off the high priest's servant's ear seems to indicate that he intended the swords to be for self defense or for a deterrent, not for a pre-preemptive attack.

 

[redleghunter]

You Americans and your "rights"... I honestly find all this talk of liberty and freedom rather crude. But that's the Eastern European in me.

I'll be the first American to say "you are welcome."

Are you old enough to remember living under Bolshevik rule?

My hope is Eastern and Western Europe wakes up soon. The "gates of Vienna" are wide open and you are the infidel to your new "guests."

Maybe you should look at Luke 22:36 a bit.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I'm not advocating senseless violence, but the context of Jesus telling the disciples to purchase swords and then reprimanding Peter for cutting off the high priest's servant's ear seems to indicate that he intended the swords to be for self defense or for a deterrent, not for a pre-preemptive attack.

In that context Peter was using the sword for self defence...

 

[jiminpa]

I'm not having a go at the responsible American gun owners except in so far as they should get rid of their guns in the hopes of an all-round safer and better society... The fact is that straw purchase sales account for the majority of illegal gun acquisitions in the US and it can be handled easily enough by simply closing down shop and initiating a buy back scheme, like was done brilliantly by John Howard in Australia.

Right, making the entire world a target rich environment.

You do know that this is a fallen world and that when only governments and other criminals have guns that the governments and other criminals will not hesitate to use them? And then what? We all call out to God for help when we were too lazy to help ourselves. God is gracious, but if you don't work you don't eat in His economy. I'm pretty sure that applies to people who are too lazy to stand up against aggressors too, and worse, like stereotypical union employees, demand that those of us willing to lift a finger in our own defense stop making the rest of you look bad by not joining your cowering in the corner hoping Satan's followers don't do what God says they always do.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I'll be the first American to say "you are welcome."

For what? For strong-arming our politicians into going to unjust wars in Iraq?

My hope is Eastern and Western Europe wakes up soon. The "gates of Vienna" are wide open and you are the infidel to your new "guests."

We like Muslims. I haven't met a single one who thinks of Europeans as kafir.

Maybe you should look at Luke 22:36 a bit.

Also, I've kind of responded to the whole Luke 22:36 verse various times in this thread and it keeps getting quoted...

 

[camphigrades]

Owning guns is neither a "Christian" or a "non-Christian" thing. We own many guns, mainly for protection of our home & family, as well as a preparation for harder times should they come. But we also have lots of fun with them; we regularly engage in target shooting which is a great family activity as well as an opportunity to train children to properly respect, handle, and use all kinds of guns. At the same time, I assure you, we don't go around shooting or threatening people with them (lol), and we all love Jesus and are pretty close to him, so...judge if you want, but God's opinion is the only one that matters to me, and we're good.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Right, making the entire world a target rich environment.

You do know that this is a fallen world and that when only governments and other criminals have guns that the governments and other criminals will not hesitate to use them? And then what? We all call out to God for help when we were too lazy to help ourselves. God is gracious, but if you don't work you don't eat in His economy. I'm pretty sure that applies to people who are too lazy to stand up against aggressors too, and worse, like stereotypical union employees, demand that those of us willing to lift a finger in our own defense stop making the rest of you look bad by not joining your cowering in the corner hoping Satan's followers don't do what God says they always do.

Maybe if more of you voted for your representatives in Washington you'd have more faith in them...

 

[jiminpa]

In that context Peter was using the sword for self defence...

No, Peter was using the sword to defile the priest's servant, it had no defensive use at all, and the bigger context is that is was time for Jesus to be taken by force, and yet He went voluntarily.

 

[redleghunter]

I'm not having a go at the responsible American gun owners except in so far as they should get rid of their guns in the hopes of an all-round safer and better society... The fact is that straw purchase sales account for the majority of illegal gun acquisitions in the US and it can be handled easily enough by simply closing down shop and initiating a buy back scheme, like was done brilliantly by John Howard in Australia.

Heh. We did a gun buy back in Iraq. They used the money to buy newer guns on the black market.

Please explain why criminals would turn their guns in to the authorities? They won't especially if they have a criminal record. So basically you are advocating law abiding citizens turn in their guns and leave their families unprotected?

All of the mass shootings in the US occurred in "gun free" zones. Shoots your theory to shreds.

There was a 2 man terrorist attack over the summer outside Dallas Texas. Results? 2 dead terrorists one wounded cop.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Heh. We did a gun buy back in Iraq. They used the money to buy newer guns on the black market.

Please explain why criminals would turn their guns in to the authorities? They won't especially if they have a criminal record. So basically you are advocating law abiding citizens turn in their guns and leave their families unprotected?

All of the mass shootings in the US occurred in "gun free" zones. Shoots your theory to shreds.

There was a 2 man terrorist attack over the summer outside Dallas Texas. Results? 2 dead terrorists one wounded cop.

Guns get on the black market when criminals and people who wish to purchase weapons anonymously get their friends to purchase the weapons for them. If you simply stop letting anyone buy weapons in the first place it eliminates the entry of weapons into the black market.

Also, don't even get me started on Iraq... What a messed up tragedy that was!